Dormant Charities/Foundations

[MrWiggle]

Does anybody know of, or have any contacts for a 'dormant' or 'inactive' charity or foundation entity that might be laying around and not being used and the current owners/founders do not wish to use it and would consider passing it on to someone that does wish to form and use one.

Thanks

[jazzbo]

Charities, Foundations and NGOs are not so readily transferrable as are corporations... no one owns a foundation or charity. ... And they are registered for specific purposes which cannot be altered without notifiying the government authority involved... and there are major fiduciary issues. Care to say anything about your grand cause?

[cdnvic]

Off topic bickering (16 posts) removed. Stay on topic, no further warnings.

[jazzbo]

Due to Mod edits would like to point out that "grand cause" was OP's words; not mine.

[GuestHouse]

I've got a theory, and maybe the OP can shed some light on this.

I've noticed a dramatic increase in the number of dog/cat/horse/get books for the kids/save the buffalo and any number of other charity/ngo organizations run by farangs in Thailand.

I'm thinking, there's a loophole in the visa regs that makes the setting up and running of such organizations an attractive option.

Perhaps work permit without the expense of company taxes, accountants etc.

For example, surely the OP would have an idea of a 'cause' that s/he wanted to get involved with rather than an arbitrary structure with its arbitrary cause?

Edited July 1, 2010 by GuestHouse

[jazzbo]

It all depends whether the charity is registered in Thailand, registered in the USA, UK, etc., or not registered at all -- It seems many are not so registered even though they solicit 'donations'. Getting an extension based on Police Order 777/2551 Reg. 2.27 for NGOs is not an easy matter.

Edited July 1, 2010 by jazzbo

[MrWiggle]

Wow....16 deletions......sorry I missed those.<BR><BR>As for GH, think what you want, doubt setting one up is easier than my current last several year visa options, or cheaper.<BR><BR>Combine that with 60/70k in legal fees, 6 to 12 months to get approval and the requirement to have 500k in the foundation, of which you cannot remove.<BR><BR>I doubt this is the 'easy' option, or the devious means by which you are trying to elude to.<BR><BR>As for difficulty to do, gather it would require some effort, but I do know of a couple that have taken over dormant entities and carried on successfully.<BR><BR>My reason for this avenue rather than going through the normal motions is simply to  save on the timeframe of quoted 6 to 12 months.

[MrWiggle]

By the way....I started the new thread with same title because when I click on the drop down box next to my profile, I click 'my content' and get the list of my posts. This way I do not have to wade through all the other stuff and I see this....

ipb.global.searchResults[ 380158 ] = { pid: 3724609, searchterm:"" }; From: Dormant Charities/Foundations

From Topic ID: 379331 Trash can MrWiggle

• 15 Replies
• 18 Views

• <LI id=anonymous_element_9>

Yesterday, 23:25 By: robblok

As you can see, it is in the trash and this thread we are in now, does not show up at all. This is why I started a new thread and asked why it had been deleted twice now. I did not know this thread was active until I saw the closed thread with Lopburi saying it was running, I then went to search for it.

Also, in the post of mine above.....why does all this <BR> appear everywhere ?? The above post has some weird shit happening in it.

I have not used this forum since the change of format, so no idea if that is affecting it.

Edited July 2, 2010 by MrWiggle

[jazzbo]

If you know of a "couple" who have been able to take over dormant Thai NGOs and carry on with the 500K baht still resident in the NGO, then you should ask them -- I am only familiar with USA-based NGOs and such a maneuver would be highly unlikely... but you would be carrying-on succesfully doing just what?

[MrWiggle]

Nothing to ask them....they took over 2 dormant foundations.....whats 2 ask ?

Oh you mean...do they have any more laying around ? well, sadly no they do not.

Carrying on successfully doing what I plan to do.

This is THAIvisa...a Thai based and information based website, if I had wanted a US based charity, I would have gone to ask at AMERICANvisa.....but thanks for your help.

[GuestHouse]

Thanks for addressing my comments.

Out of curiosity, what 'good cause' are you planning to put this Charity/Foundation too?

[MrWiggle]

Rather not say yet....especially when the enquiry wraps the good cause bit in 'this'....usually leading to a waste of time, or what good is that gunna do, or everyone is doing that, or only pedos get into that, or enough soi dogs being fed now etc etc.

So, the actual reason for it and what it will do does not really need to be expressed to seek the information I seek.

Thanks for your understanding.

Edited July 2, 2010 by MrWiggle

[GuestHouse]

Something to hide?

And it is a perfectly reasonable question, is it not?!

[MrWiggle]

Perfectly reasonable question.

It is also perfectly reasonable for me to decline to answer as yet considering not anywhere near starting right ?

And your 'something to hide' comment certainly goes to prove my point.

Edited July 2, 2010 by MrWiggle

[GuestHouse]

Perhaps.

But for example - If I had a real conviction that street dogs in Thailand are treated terribly and it would be a good idea to set up a foundation to help them, then unlike a business where I need to make profit, I'd be inclined to spread the message.

So where a businessman might hide his idea a philanthropist would be more than happy to take every opportunity to promote his idea in the hope that perhaps others would follow his lead.

Meanwhile, on a purely practical front...... when asking for help/advice it is usually a good idea to give the people you are asking an idea of what your aims and objectives are.

You might complain, as you have, that people will criticize you (I do not repeat the criticism that you have already given) but you must surely accept that unless you give information to counter people's doubts then doubts will remain.

Like you, I didn't read the 16 deleted messages, but I'll make a blind bet they have their roots in the fact that your agenda is 'hidden'.

[jazzbo]

There are many USA and other non-Thai based NGOs operating in Thailand -- such as WorldVision.org with offices all over Thailand. They source their funds from outside of Thailand. An NGO based in Thailand sources its funds from inside Thailand and thus competes with other Thai based NGOs for scarce funds.

So -- regardless of your intentions -- you may still be better off registering your NGO in your home country... I think you will find that very few NGOs registered in Thailand are actually operated by non-Thais.

[cdnvic]

Like you, I didn't read the 16 deleted messages, but I'll make a blind bet they have their roots in the fact that your agenda is 'hidden'.

They had nothing to do with the topic really.

[jazzbo]

There is this report about an international organization who considered setting up an affiliate registered in Thailand:

(quote) One organisation considering this route sought the advice of government officials and a lawyer,

and was advised that the foundation must have at least one Thai national on the board. This was

seen as a significant problem because that person would essentially become a partner in the

organisation not only in Thailand but elsewhere in the world and have a say in the future of the

foundation as a whole, even once operations had cease in Thailand.

Additionally, since the foundation would involve foreign staff on the board, the process had to be completed at the

national rather than provincial level and was expected to take up to six month and would need to

be renewed every year. Thus, the organisation was advised not to proceed with this option. (end quote)

Of course, if they had just found themselves a dormant Thai foundation all of their problems would have been solved.

[MrWiggle]

MrGH….I don't quite get that, if you had a business you would not want to spread the word, so nobody knows about you and you go broke ? Strange.

I would be inclined to spread the message also, perhaps you will one day, but I doubt that from your vibe.

I agree about giving people information. It is all relevant isn't it. I have given the information required for what I seek and that is simply information from anyone that may know of a dormant or inactive foundation laying around gathering dust. Very simple really, don't try to read to much into it.

Doubts about what ? That I am searching for a dormant foundation ? Fear not, have no doubt, I am searching for a dormant foundation.

The agenda is not hidden, just not disclosed. In fact several people know of its agenda, but they are people that need to know. For you to pass on information to me about a dormant foundation that you may know of, or someone you know may know of…..you do not require any specific information for this.

Stop being a sticky nose and maybe you will find out one day.

JB…..Guess I am lucky then that I have 3, or more, Thais that can be party to the signing as in fact it is 3 Thais that are required I believe, or at least so my Thai lawyer tells me is the current situation with setting up Thai registered foundations.

I live in Thailand, for some time now, I envisage staying here for some time yet. The operation and benefits of this foundation will be within Thailand, so for all purposes and certainly for some legitimacy, it should be formed here. It will also be formed most probably in my home country, but this is not certain just yet. Also being setup here in Los is not a dead certainty if a better option pops up.

We are in the planning and setup stage now, so it is all about planning and setting up, not casting things in stone just yet.

Please direct all negativity to me as it is good practice for later……over to you GH.

Edited July 3, 2010 by MrWiggle

[jazzbo]

"The operation and benefits of this foundation will be within Thailand, so for all purposes and certainly for some legitimacy, it should be formed here."

Probably 90+ % of foundations operating in Thailand involving non-Thais are not formed here... Here is one that is registered in Thailand but receives its funding through a separate UK registered charity... If you are registered solely in Thailand, (KOR. TOR.) you may have difficulty raising funds if that is in your plans.

http://www.karenhilltribes.org.uk/

This one -- operating and benefiting Thailand -- is solely a USA 501c3 Non-Profit Organization:

http://www.culturalcanvas.com/

BTW I was associated over a few years when first in Thailand with a Thai-based Foundation under Royal Patronage with several hundred Thai employees so I received a crash course in the politics and exigencies of such organizations.

Edited July 3, 2010 by jazzbo

[MrWiggle]

.......wrong post.

Edited July 3, 2010 by MrWiggle

[jazzbo]

I went to the market today and asked the guy if he had any good shrimp. He said 'No, but I know of a couple of dormant Foundations.'

3 warm Thai bodies and an attorney -- I guess you are well on your way.

[surayu]

I did some research on charities being operated in Los sometime ago, but it was a real pull off to see that the local authorities are expecting mandatory expenses to be made every year just as a normal profitable business operation, very disappointing, there is no room for good willing people in modern society, willing to help people in need without paying the regular fees to the "big brother" just get you in jail in no time....

[jazzbo]

In Thailand there are many ways 'good willing people' can help people in need and stay under the radar -- even have lunch with the local authorities... The problems arise when your willingness to help people in need involves the raising and disbursing of funds, goods, or services; in that case why would you expect it to be otherwise.

The rules are set-up both here and elsewhere with the expectation that there will always persons looking to game-the-system.

Edited July 3, 2010 by jazzbo

[surayu]

In Thailand there are many ways 'good willing people' can help people in need and stay under the radar -- even have lunch with the local authorities... The problems arise when your willingness to help people in need involves the raising and disbursing of funds, goods, or services; in that case why would you expect it to be otherwise.

The rules are set-up both here and elsewhere with the expectation that there will always persons looking to game-the-system.

Sorry but i can't agree with that, even if you don't raise any funds and just limits yourself to offer what you can/want, you are oblige to pay an accountant and all the rest, creating an unnecessary heavy bargain to sustain, as soon as the reigning mafia fee collectors discover that there is something more than just a "personal friendship" you get into troubles, the system just don't legally allow you to do any goods to other people, that's it, to bribe your way to be a just a good samaritan it's seems to be just a bit over the top, don't you think so?

[robblok]

In Thailand there are many ways 'good willing people' can help people in need and stay under the radar -- even have lunch with the local authorities... The problems arise when your willingness to help people in need involves the raising and disbursing of funds, goods, or services; in that case why would you expect it to be otherwise.

The rules are set-up both here and elsewhere with the expectation that there will always persons looking to game-the-system.

Sorry but i can't agree with that, even if you don't raise any funds and just limits yourself to offer what you can/want, you are oblige to pay an accountant and all the rest, creating an unnecessary heavy bargain to sustain, as soon as the reigning mafia fee collectors discover that there is something more than just a "personal friendship" you get into troubles, the system just don't legally allow you to do any goods to other people, that's it, to bribe your way to be a just a good samaritan it's seems to be just a bit over the top, don't you think so?

I have to say that accountants do create a real burden in Thailand (they really rip you off i know im an accountant myself so i know prices). However i do understand why you need to have an administration, you could compete with real businesses and or have proceeds that you dont want to pay taxes on.

Suppose you were to get money from collections and keep some for yourself and the rest you use. Then you are cheating and generating income without paying tax over it. (the last part i cant worry about in Thailand) But you are cheating the people who donated. So yes a good administration is a must to keep things fair.

[jazzbo]

I posted the above based on personal first-hand experience over several years... YMMV,

[MrWiggle]

I went to the market today and asked the guy if he had any good shrimp. He said 'No, but I know of a couple of dormant Foundations.'

3 warm Thai bodies and an attorney -- I guess you are well on your way.

I don't get why you try to be funny and sarcastic about this, your attempts at humour are sad, so you should refrain.

Do you care to explain why the negativity ?

[MrWiggle]

you are oblige to pay an accountant and all the rest,

What is 'and all the rest exactly'

I agree that if you are doing something like this on minimal funds, possibly just your own, then firstly setting up such an entity would be a total waste anway, let alone the accompanying costs.

However, if it is on a bigger scale, I see no problem with an accountant doing your books as required.

Edited July 4, 2010 by MrWiggle

[MrWiggle]

I have to say that accountants do create a real burden in Thailand (they really rip you off i know im an accountant myself so i know prices). However i do understand why you need to have an administration, you could compete with real businesses and or have proceeds that you dont want to pay taxes on.

Suppose you were to get money from collections and keep some for yourself and the rest you use. Then you are cheating and generating income without paying tax over it. (the last part i cant worry about in Thailand) But you are cheating the people who donated. So yes a good administration is a must to keep things fair.

Nice reply.

Try not to screw up this thread like you did the other one please.