Fourth Of July Celebration Comments

[mesquite]

~

I have been asked to pass this on:

"We sincerely apologize to any and all who were disappointed with this year's 4th of July picnic.

We realize that there were problems, and will take any negative comments as constructive input in order to avoid similar problems in the future.

We honestly tried to organize an enjoyable Independence Day celebration for the American community in Chiang Mai. We hope that everyone will understand our intentions and ask that all accept our apology."

Michael E. Holmes

Commander VFW Post 12074

Chiang Mai

And I salute you, Commander Holmes. An apology was in order and you served it up. I do think, though, a complete accounting of the funds is also in order. How much money did you and Duke's make off this event? I have read anywhere from 1700 to 3000 people attended. If it's the latter number, that's 900,000 baht or about 27,000 USD taken in before expenses.

An accounting is in order.

Not to you it isn't!

Oh yes it is. To me AND EVERYONE ELSE who paid money! However you have a point. The request should be make directly to the VFW, with copy to the headquarters organization.

[gotlost]

~

I have been asked to pass this on:

"We sincerely apologize to any and all who were disappointed with this year's 4th of July picnic.

We realize that there were problems, and will take any negative comments as constructive input in order to avoid similar problems in the future.

We honestly tried to organize an enjoyable Independence Day celebration for the American community in Chiang Mai. We hope that everyone will understand our intentions and ask that all accept our apology."

Michael E. Holmes

Commander VFW Post 12074

Chiang Mai

And I salute you, Commander Holmes. An apology was in order and you served it up. I do think, though, a complete accounting of the funds is also in order. How much money did you and Duke's make off this event? I have read anywhere from 1700 to 3000 people attended. If it's the latter number, that's 900,000 baht or about 27,000 USD taken in before expenses.

An accounting is in order.

Not to you it isn't!

Oh yes it is. To me AND EVERYONE ELSE who paid money! However you have a point. The request should be make directly to the VFW, with copy to the headquarters organization.

I am sure that the VFW is quaking in their shoes over your threats.

[NancyL]

I appreciate your apology Commander Holmes and promise to review the comments as constructive inputs to avoid similar problems in the future.

The VFW had a monumental undertaking and I'm surprised they didn't ask for assistance from other elements of the local expat community. For example, one poster (in berating those of us who "complained") commented that just a few overworked VFW members were available to set up the tents or clean up the site. Why didn't you ask for help? One of your members has been coming to meetings of the Expats Club for months, making announcements about the event and selling tickets. He could have mentioned that they'd appreciate volunteers for set-up and clean up. Hubby and I would have come to help in that small way.

As I sat a a table during the event with some of my older women friends we commented how we would have made a good team to operate a drink station. The Expats club has many special interest groups, run by well organized people and populated by members who are used to working with each other in organizing trips, tournaments, meetings, pot lucks, dining excursions, whatever. It doesn't take many people to run a drink station. You could set up many more drink stations around the grounds, with each station manned by a group of 20 or 30 volunteers who organize themselves. The book club could compete against the computer club to sell who sells the most drinks!

I applaud the VFW's commitment to continue to do this event and hope that your members understand the vast majority of the comments in this thread were well intentioned and a goodly number were from Americans. I'm someone whose husband served in Vietnam, father in the Pacific during WWII and mother who was regent of the D.A.R. (meaning my ancestors fought in the American revolution). I was brought up to believe that listening to differing opinions and commitment to continuous improvement were American ideals. I resent being branded as a "non-American whiner" by some people because I stressed the importance of having clean, sanitary western-style toilets and hand washing facilities.

[Sansai Sam]

The US Consulate was a co-sponsor. Although I have heard many valid complaints the apology was made. Sometimes things just go wrong. I don't think an accounting of funds is due to you or any other person on this forum. If you have a bad meal at a restaurant you are not due an accounting of the evenings proceeds. This was an event sponsored by the VFW and the US Consulate. Nobody forced you to go and nobody owes you and accounting. If you were due anything it was perhaps a refund ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT.

[mrmillersr]

About how many attendees were not Americans or their immediate family? From what I can gather quite a few.

Wouldn't one way to keep things more manageable next time be to limit this event to only Americans and their immediate families?

Events as these are held threw out the world at other US Embassies/Consulates and are normally open to other nationalities and the host country under the same security conditions.

The words "normal" or "normally" are losing their place so whatever was accepted as normal yesterday need not apply today.

It's pretty obvious the large numbers that can show up with an open venue, make holding an event like this a logistical nightmare. Why not next year limiting this to only Americans and their dependents, making entry either free or a nominal amount with several American food vendors (Dukes, Pun Pun, etc) selling American style food (BBQ ribs, dogs, burgers, potato salad, etc.) at reduced prices? I think it would be a start in the right direction.

[mesquite]

The US Consulate was a co-sponsor. Although I have heard many valid complaints the apology was made. Sometimes things just go wrong. I don't think an accounting of funds is due to you or any other person on this forum. If you have a bad meal at a restaurant you are not due an accounting of the evenings proceeds. This was an event sponsored by the VFW and the US Consulate. Nobody forced you to go and nobody owes you and accounting. If you were due anything it was perhaps a refund ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT.

Forget the refund and I stand corrected as I did not know the US Consulate was a co-sponsor.

Others in this forum have referred to the event as a "disaster" and "the worst organized event I ever attended," and on and on. A significant amount of money (remember this is Thailand) changed hands. Only one restaurant, Duke's, was allowed to participate. No competitive bid contract was let. Even though they appear to advertise on this forum (I see little "Duke's" ads on my screen) they are not beyond reproach. Or are they?

There is nothing wrong with full disclosure of finances. Or have many of the members of this forum lived in Thailand too long and like to simply sweep things under the carpet, Thai style?

[sbk]

Take your crusade elsewhere please mesquite. Thaivisa does not allow lobbying of any kind on the forum so if you wish to organize something please do it outside. thanks

[georgie48]

The US Consulate was a co-sponsor. Although I have heard many valid complaints the apology was made. Sometimes things just go wrong. I don't think an accounting of funds is due to you or any other person on this forum. If you have a bad meal at a restaurant you are not due an accounting of the evenings proceeds. This was an event sponsored by the VFW and the US Consulate. Nobody forced you to go and nobody owes you and accounting. If you were due anything it was perhaps a refund ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT.

I did attend the event. I accept The VFW apology. I think next year the VFW should request volunteers from either 'other groups such as the Expat or Chiang Mai Friends, or go to the groups and ask for American volunteers - if they wish to keep it in 'American hands'. I think that more vendors selling food is the answer - and people have a choice which vendor to use. I hope the VFW do not say it is just for American's and their dependants because then you have the problem - who is a dependant / who is not (if i have been living with my girlfriend for 5 years - i consider she is a dependant - but legally she is not). As for accounts - that is up to the organisers - to decide if it is made public or not.

[bkkjames]

With all this bickering, I would be surprised if they don't wash there hands of it.

[harrry]

With all this bickering, I would be surprised if they don't wash there hands of it.

I am sure they washed their hands before handling all that food.

I hope they do have it next year...I wanted to go but somehting came up. It was a stuff up but with care next year won't.

[BookSanook]

I am in favor of continuing the really long food-line tradition in future celebrations. Advertise it before-hand (as a special feature) and you'll find the actual attendees will be the more considerate and patient members of the expat community, here.

I see it as an opportunity to practice standing meditation. :jap:

[getgoin]

The US Consulate was a co-sponsor. Although I have heard many valid complaints the apology was made. Sometimes things just go wrong. I don't think an accounting of funds is due to you or any other person on this forum. If you have a bad meal at a restaurant you are not due an accounting of the evenings proceeds. This was an event sponsored by the VFW and the US Consulate. Nobody forced you to go and nobody owes you and accounting. If you were due anything it was perhaps a refund ON THE DAY OF THE EVENT.

Forget the refund and I stand corrected as I did not know the US Consulate was a co-sponsor.

Others in this forum have referred to the event as a "disaster" and "the worst organized event I ever attended," and on and on. A significant amount of money (remember this is Thailand) changed hands. Only one restaurant, Duke's, was allowed to participate. No competitive bid contract was let. Even though they appear to advertise on this forum (I see little "Duke's" ads on my screen) they are not beyond reproach. Or are they?

There is nothing wrong with full disclosure of finances. Or have many of the members of this forum lived in Thailand too long and like to simply sweep things under the carpet, Thai style?

In the first place, while you went away with your tail between your legs, there were many that had a great time at the event. Lots of food and beverage was consumed and the entertainment was fantastic, including the fireworks show.

The format was changed this year for a number of reasons. Last year while there were numerous food stalls none of them did any business and most of the attendees came, ate a hot dog and a had a drink and then left. The Duke's was asked to make a proposal and the board accepted it. This year the price of the ticket was to include the food and as a result there were almost double the number of tickets and attendees. The event was also opened up to other nationalities and was advertised more extensively. The Duke's alone sold more than 700-800 tickets. Almost as many as attended the event last year. As a result of the success of the ticket sales the hoards of people were a little difficult to deal with.

Last year there were 700 hot dogs sold. This year 1480 were given away as well as 1500 sausages. Please do not insult my intelligence by saying the hot dogs were sold. All the food was free and included in the price of the tickets. For this The Duke's received a portion of ticket sales. Last year the ticket price was 100 Baht. You do the math. And everyone had their fill this year except the ribs which started to get in short supply. There was food going out all the way up to the fireworks. Lots and lots of food was served and besides the cold hot dog or two and a few salty chickens the food was delicious, fresh and hot. Most of the complaints were about the long lines. If someone else want to bid on an all-you-can-eat BBQ be my guest.

While there were mistakes made and however much I love to hear complaints because it helps to make things right there are a few disgruntled people on this web site that will never and can never be happy unless they are getting over on someone.

Likewise it is really great to see the positive comments and the comments that will help to improve the event in the future. While it is also good to see people jump on the bandwagon after seeing such a busy and exuberant event the big thing that you are missing is the group of guys that poured hundreds of hours of their time and the staff at The Duke's that worked their tails off to try to make this a positive experience.

No one got rich and no one was swindled. This was a community event sponsored by guys that fought for their country. So please try to keep the comments on the constructive side.

I've said my piece.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Tywais
Flame removed

[daoyai]

Good points....... For me the bottom line is..... RIBS...... I'l gladyl stand in a hot line for an hour (got my beers first) pay the price, endure even more but gimme my RIBS, I only got one made me grumpy, just a teaser , a taste. RIBS.... and some salad, and cold beer, AH. did I mention ....RIBS!

[Dustoff]

Take your crusade elsewhere please mesquite. Thaivisa does not allow lobbying of any kind on the forum so if you wish to organize something please do it outside. thanks

~

Thanks SBK - I have been biting my tongue through many of these posts.

For those of you who don't know, the U.S. Veterans of Foreign Wars is a VERY highly respected organization with members all over the world. ALL of its members are veterans who volunteered their all, including their own lives, to serve their country in a combat theater in the hopes of protecting freedom for others and fending off aggressors. To suggest that these selfless and courageous individuals would then come over here only to rip people off by throwing a party for an American holiday, in tight association with the American Embassy's Chiang Mai Consulate, is hopelessly beyond ridiculous!

In every VFW Post worldwide, there are three elected trustees whose job it is to oversee and audit the the financial records of the "Quartermaster" who is responsible for monthly reports to the membership. These reports are available to everyone in the organization all the way up to VFW National Headquarters in Washington, DC. Trust me, fiscal responsibility and oversight within the VFW would put any government to shame, even our own.

I have trusted my fellow veterans countless times in the past with my very life and still do to this day. They are the reason I am still alive...

Though I am a combat veteran and a proud life member of the VFW, these comments are my own, not those of our Post or organization.

~

[millwall_fan]

I do hope those Americans on here who are trying to peddle the line that the only people on here complaining or being negative are non Americans. If you add up the complaints most come from Americans themselves. AS a Brit I came along because of a poster that advertised a really great day out for the family. Enjoy Dukes food and find lots of things that the kids can enjoy. We were hungry when we arrived and once we saw the queue for food things were never going to get better. Any of you married to Thais will know that when they're hungry they need feeding NOW! As do children of any race and nationality. Those of you who are making thinly veiled comments that it is the foreigners and particularly those pesky Limey's who are whingeing should be ashamed of yourselves.

The basic problem was that the event outgrew itself - probably due to excellent marketting. Full marks to the VFW guys who attempted such a big event and to poor old David at Dukes who simply had no idea that so many people would attend. This thread has been a very honest and very open discussion about what happened and as someone who attended I felt justified in making the comments I did at the beginning of this thread. The apology from the post commander Mr Holmes is gratefully appreciated and accepted and i wish the VFW every success in building its post iin Chiang Mai - one thing you Americans might consider is - wasn't it great that people of so many different nationalities chose to come along to celebrate your national day? I hope you wont' exclude 'foreigners' next year and I think the fact that you have all been big enough to accept the shortcomings of this years event augers well for the future.

[mesquite]

I've said my piece.

Actually that would be "peace" and I accept your apology

[gotlost]

I do hope those Americans on here who are trying to peddle the line that the only people on here complaining or being negative are non Americans. If you add up the complaints most come from Americans themselves. AS a Brit I came along because of a poster that advertised a really great day out for the family. Enjoy Dukes food and find lots of things that the kids can enjoy. We were hungry when we arrived and once we saw the queue for food things were never going to get better. Any of you married to Thais will know that when they're hungry they need feeding NOW! As do children of any race and nationality. Those of you who are making thinly veiled comments that it is the foreigners and particularly those pesky Limey's who are whingeing should be ashamed of yourselves.

The basic problem was that the event outgrew itself - probably due to excellent marketting. Full marks to the VFW guys who attempted such a big event and to poor old David at Dukes who simply had no idea that so many people would attend. This thread has been a very honest and very open discussion about what happened and as someone who attended I felt justified in making the comments I did at the beginning of this thread. The apology from the post commander Mr Holmes is gratefully appreciated and accepted and i wish the VFW every success in building its post iin Chiang Mai - one thing you Americans might consider is - wasn't it great that people of so many different nationalities chose to come along to celebrate your national day? I hope you wont' exclude 'foreigners' next year and I think the fact that you have all been big enough to accept the shortcomings of this years event augers well for the future.

Your response is spot on. Thank you from a YANK. I have been to other 4th of July gatherings at US Embassy/Consulates in other parts of the world and all nationalities and locals were invited and attend. This is the spirited of celebrating our Independence. We do not excluded anyone. The greatest group of voluntaries I have witnessed to help us celebrate a July 4 the at the US Consulate in Dhahran Saudi Arabia were the British. Half the help came from them and two thirds of the our imported beer was consumed by them:lol:.

[ollylama]

My only complaint was the music was not "American" bagpipes, Australia, New Zealand come on.

Ha ha! I agree with you about the Belgian bagpipes player. That was weird. But as the guitarist in the "Australian" band I think you're being silly. Our whole band was made up of Americans, except for Aussie John, the singer. And even if we were all Aussies, who cares? Plus, I think every song we did (except one) was an American rock song. The Kiwi couple also sang almost all American songs.

C'mon. If you're going to complain about something, then complain about the fact that I flubbed my first try at the Star Spangled Banner! That sucked!

Here's the second attempt, followed by the aussie national anthem:

[PolPat]

My only complaint was the music was not "American" bagpipes, Australia, New Zealand come on.

Ha ha! I agree with you about the Belgian bagpipes player. That was weird. But as the guitarist in the "Australian" band I think you're being silly. Our whole band was made up of Americans, except for Aussie John, the singer. And even if we were all Aussies, who cares? Plus, I think every song we did (except one) was an American rock song. The Kiwi couple also sang almost all American songs.

C'mon. If you're going to complain about something, then complain about the fact that I flubbed my first try at the Star Spangled Banner! That sucked!

Here's the second attempt, followed by the aussie national anthem:

Next year can we have both types of music Country and Western? I did like the Credence.

[NancyL]

I loved the bagpipe player and hope he returns! Remember America was settled by many people of Scots-Irish heritage and we still feel the bagpipes stirring something in our blood everytime we hear them. He featured "Amazing Grace" frequently in his song rotation. If that doesn't bring back good memories of the home country, I don't know what will. It's played at every funeral service I've ever attended and brought back great memories of those departed.

[ollylama]

yeah, it just might have been better if he didn't play while other musicians were performing. that was a bit odd.

anyway, america is a land of immigrants. any music would have been appropriate. italian, indian, burkina fasoian. wha'evah.

[ollylama]

My only complaint was the music was not "American" bagpipes, Australia, New Zealand come on.

Ha ha! I agree with you about the Belgian bagpipes player. That was weird. But as the guitarist in the "Australian" band I think you're being silly. Our whole band was made up of Americans, except for Aussie John, the singer. And even if we were all Aussies, who cares? Plus, I think every song we did (except one) was an American rock song. The Kiwi couple also sang almost all American songs.

C'mon. If you're going to complain about something, then complain about the fact that I flubbed my first try at the Star Spangled Banner! That sucked!

Here's the second attempt, followed by the aussie national anthem:

Next year can we have both types of music Country and Western? I did like the Credence.

We'll play "Rawhide" for you Pol Pat.

[DavidOxon]

I loved the bagpipe player and hope he returns! Remember America was settled by many people of Scots-Irish heritage and we still feel the bagpipes stirring something in our blood everytime we hear them. He featured "Amazing Grace" frequently in his song rotation. If that doesn't bring back good memories of the home country, I don't know what will. It's played at every funeral service I've ever attended and brought back great memories of those departed.

Hi

Wold like to meet the Belgian Bagpipe player if anyone has contact details...

thanks

david

[tjeffrutherford]

So ... how many VFWers did you say it takes to screw in a light bulb?

I wonder if anybody out there realizes or even cares how many man hours were spent in the planning of this years 4th of July event . For 11 months retired VFW members from Post 12074 Chiang Mai, worked on their own time to get sponsors, the location, tents, tables, chairs, a band, fireworks, volunteers etc. for an event that would last 6 hours just to make Americans feel at home on this Great American Holiday. Last year the VFW Post lost some 50,000+ Baht to put this event on, and I didn't see any of them complaining because of the loss. This year let's hope we can make a few Baht.

I would have been satisfied if Dave/Dukes, a real patriotic in my books, would have served just hamburgers, hot dogs, beans and potato salad, a real traditional 4th of July lunch.

I didn't see any of the complainers out at the grounds 2 days prior to the event planning where to put up tents, setting up chairs, or tables. What I did see were some dozen plus old VFW members getting the job done and wondering where they could get more tents and chairs. I saw the Thai Army volunteers helping the 2 paid workers I hired out of my own pocket putting up tents, tables and chairs. I never once saw any of the people complaining asking if they could help. Remember, a lot of us Veterans are disabled and old.

To realthaideal, I'm retired Special Effects Hollywood and I've eaten thousands of times off of the catering trucks, and you guys do great jobs, and serve great food, BUT you know how many people you are going to serve, and 1/4 of the crew just eat off of the salad buffet and don't get their food from the truck. (Lunch is normally 30-42 min for crew from the last man through the line.) Give me your number and I'll see that you are included in the planning for next years venue. This isn't Hollywood.

Now, it was an all you can EAT event, NOT all you can take home. I kinda enjoyed making new friends in the chow line, I just wished there was a beercart girl around to help quench my thirst.

Prices for American Beer and hard to get soda ( Dr. Pepper, Squirt, A&W Cream Soda, Mountain Dew ) were extremely low priced compared to anyplace in Thailand, I've paid 250 Baht for an MGD alone in Thailand. 300-350 Baht won't buy me 1 decent sushi plate at Fuji's, let alone all the entertainment, chance at door prizes, free food, free water, new friends and fireworks that were put on. And did any of the VFW members, or their families get in for free or receive free drinks? NO, and that includes ALL the VFW volunteers who worked the event. Amazing, they actually paid to work as volunteers. And some of you are out there complaining, you, like us, had to stand in line for an all you could eat lunch.

I sure didn't see any unhappy kids out here, just a bunch of smiling faces. Kids being kids, teens being teens. How easy we forget how little it takes to be happy.

Trash can were meant for trash, not the tables. Our VFW Commander was out at the grounds at 6 AM on Monday, a Federal holiday, policing the area. Unbelievable.

Ladies, we hear you, I'll see if we can have signs made next year to direct you to the outside western style toilets in the Stadium, that's if the even will be held in the same place.

Instead of complaining about all the things that went wrong or you disliked, offer a helping hand, we don't care what country you're from, come march in our boots.

Member VFW Post 12074

[venturalaw]

While there are many points in this post that I agree with there are also many I disagree with. Some of the criticism is harsh and some of the excuses (DADEE) are unacceptable. I will not share mine other than to say that I personally would like to see the event returned to the US Consulate with two non-American, pre-registered guests for each US passport holder. We never had the problems or the excuses posted here.

I have to agree with Sansai Sam here. I returned from the U.S. a day earlier than planned to attend this event. When the event use to be held at the Consulate it had more of a patriotic feel to it. Americans were able to bring a number of non-American guests, but that number was limited. Plus, the grounds at the U.S. Consulate is really something to experience.

As far as the food is concerned, the quality from the Dukes (which was 50% of the reason for my returning earlier from the States) is always superior. Obviously the logistics in which it was dispensed failed to meet the demand, however I am certain that it will be different next time. I just really hope that the venue can be moved back to the Consulate.

One other note, last year, as will as this year, the speaker volume was way too high. If one sat anywhere close to the band there was no way you could carry on a conversation. Factor in the strolling competing bagpipe performer, and what you had was audio chaos. If the venue remains the same, can someone PLEASE inform those in charge of the speakers to turn down the volume?

Edited July 7, 2010 by venturalaw

[richard10365]

With some much constuctive criticism from this thread the next 4th of July celebration should be awesome! I had a great time at this event. I can't wait for next year's 4th of July celebration!

I appreciate all the hard work from everyone (VFW, U.S. Consulate, The Dukes etc.) involved. Thank you for a great time! :jap: It was an awesome event.

[jayjay0]

While there are many points in this post that I agree with there are also many I disagree with. Some of the criticism is harsh and some of the excuses (DADEE) are unacceptable. I will not share mine other than to say that I personally would like to see the event returned to the US Consulate with two non-American, pre-registered guests for each US passport holder. We never had the problems or the excuses posted here.

I have to agree with Sansai Sam here. I returned from the U.S. a day earlier than planned to attend this event. When the event use to be held at the Consulate it had more of a patriotic feel to it. Americans were able to bring a number of non-American guests, but that number was limited. Plus, the grounds at the U.S. Consulate is really something to experience.

As far as the food is concerned, the quality from the Dukes (which was 50% of the reason for my returning earlier from the States) is always superior. Obviously the logistics in which it was dispensed failed to meet the demand, however I am certain that it will be different next time. I just really hope that the venue can be moved back to the Consulate.

One other note, last year, as will as this year, the speaker volume was way too high. If one sat anywhere close to the band there was no way you could carry on a conversation. Factor in the strolling competing bagpipe performer, and what you had was audio chaos. If the venue remains the same, can someone PLEASE inform those in charge of the speakers to turn down the volume?

I am having a hard time with the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds.

I know there is a lot of Americans working here in Chiang Mai and they may feel the disconnection. However most of us are here for other reason's and I wont go into that here. If we felt the dislocation to the point we had to isolate ourselves once a year we could go back to the good old USA. You will note we are still here.

I don't really care for the inference of Americans only in my humble opinion that is a attitude that is not and will not win us friends in the world.

I missed it because I returned late Sunday night but I do agree if I had changed my flight schedule 50% of the reason would have been Dukes.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't really care for the inference of Americans only in my humble opinion that is a attitude that is not and will not win us friends in the world.

I would not worry too much about that. Obama keeps stabbing the few friends that we do have in the back, but at least the North Koreans and Iranians respect us for dealing so harshly with their rogue regimes.   

[LomSak27]

So Obama has stabbed in the back the friends Cheney/Junior didn't kick in the balls?

Things are trending downward.

[NancyL]

Yup, it may be time to close this thread. There are many useful, well-intentioned comments on this thread, but I suspect we've probably said everything there is to say about the event. Let's wait until next year's event is announced and then we can flock back to ask questions like "will you have western toilets for the ladies?"