Fourth Of July Celebration Comments

[venturalaw]

When the event use to be held at the Consulate it had more of a patriotic feel to it. Americans were able to bring a number of non-American guests, but that number was limited. Plus, the grounds at the U.S. Consulate is really something to experience.

I am having a hard time with the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds.

I know there is a lot of Americans working here in Chiang Mai and they may feel the disconnection. However most of us are here for other reason's and I wont go into that here. If we felt the dislocation to the point we had to isolate ourselves once a year we could go back to the good old USA. You will note we are still here.

I don't really care for the inference of Americans only in my humble opinion that is a attitude that is not and will not win us friends in the world.

Where did you come up with the concept of "the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds"? When I attended the 4th of July celebration at the Consulate, I brought several Thai and British friends. They were invitees. That is the meaning of "non-American guests."

Perhaps I should break it down further for you. Non-American guests are individuals who are not Americans that were invited to attend and be "on the Consulate grounds".

Regarding your next inane comment, in your world the spirit of patriotism must be celebrated by returning to one's own country. Really? Why? You really believe celebrating in Thailand, once a year, America's independence is interfering? How?

[ChiangMai2]

This thread is almost as riveting as last years 4th of July classic - " the mysterious case of the missing ball park franks" with photographic evidence.

I wasn't there as I had other arrangements but a rain free day, good food eventually, fireworks, childrens entertainment and music can't be bad.

All things considered is a cold hot dog, salty piece of chicken and a thai loo really that life changing?

It seems some people are difficult to please every year.

[getgoin]

Yup, it may be time to close this thread. There are many useful, well-intentioned comments on this thread, but I suspect we've probably said everything there is to say about the event. Let's wait until next year's event is announced and then we can flock back to ask questions like "will you have western toilets for the ladies?"

I have to agree.

One of the reasons it is no longer held on the grounds of the Consulate is because the Consulate was either not able to host it due to governmental regulations or that they no longer wanted to host it. Even the VFW would like to toss this hot potato.

I'm glad to see that the furor has died down and that the event can be remembered for the positive aspects, but, of course, we will not forget the negative. I, for one, saw many people having a great time and I want to personally thank everyone who has gone out of their way to say thank you and give their support to both the VFW and The Duke's. Many of you that showed kindness and understanding and are greatly appreciated. The positive response has been overwhelming. Thanks again.

[Gonzo the Face]

This thread is almost as riveting as last years 4th of July classic - " the mysterious case of the missing ball park franks" with photographic evidence.

I wasn't there as I had other arrangements but a rain free day, good food eventually, fireworks, childrens entertainment and music can't be bad.

All things considered is a cold hot dog, salty piece of chicken and a thai loo really that life changing?

It seems some people are difficult to please every year.

It may be better put to say " Underwear changing "

[Gonzo the Face]

Maybe next year someone can get the concession for the sit-down, telephone booth type of port-a-potty..... charge 20 per visit , max time 3 mins. Then the cut it short wistle blows and the door automatically opens, ready or not.

They can then put one or two on wheels and pull it up and down the waiting lines so those that need can use and still not lose there place in line......

really Johnny on the spot....

Hey, a mans gotta stay on top of things to make a "go" of things these days.

[Tywais]

Where did you come up with the concept of "the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds"? When I attended the 4th of July celebration at the Consulate, I brought several Thai and British friends. They were invitees. That is the meaning of "non-American guests."

You seem to be reading what you want to in his comment. He was simply responding to suggestions that propose only Americans be allowed in the next time and his response was negative to the suggestion.

I did go and it was the first one I've gone to and The Dukes catering was one of the reasons why. I came as a party of 6, myself, wife and other family members. Arrived around 3:00 and got in the (short) queue for security but never thought anything of it and probably all of 15 minutes including buying my tickets. Funny thing is when I talked to my wife about us going the first thing she asked "is it safe?".

Yes, the queue was a bit of a frustration but after sitting at the table for a while trying to figure out what to do about it, the two nephews were sent off to get food for all of us. Problem solved.

I rarely drink alcoholic beverages but thought I would try something different. Got in a (short) queue for drinks and saw a VFW guy sipping on a Samuel Adams and taking a look at it with some approval so got one. Quite pleasant I thought.

Food was good. Hot dog excellent, chicken quite good but as mentioned a bit on the salty side. Only a very small piece of rib to sample though. The nephews, high school age, had no problem entertaining themselves with the games.

It was clear that the size of the crowd was unexpected and was mentioned by the announcer who apologized several times and pleaded with guests to allow those who have not eaten yet a chance. Clearly he was frustrated, but this was a massive undertaking and can't imagine any member pulling it off much better considering the unforeseen circumstances.

My biggest disappoint was I didn't find anyone I knew to chat with. Being a shy guy, just couldn't go up and ask "are you from Thaivisa?"

We ended up staying for 3 hours though the first 30 minutes had me thinking of leaving. BTW, I made sure I drained myself thoroughly before I went not knowing the toilet situation.

[Tywais]

Since this topic is for constructive criticism I will add a suggestion. Perhaps next time the planning committee has open sessions for the general public for feedback and suggestions. Suspect it would have found some kinks in the armor that this one had. Perhaps even discuss getting volunteers, and I suspect many would be happy to join in and give a hand. Offer free entry for them and guests, perhaps up to a limit.

[Gonzo the Face]

Where did you come up with the concept of "the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds"? When I attended the 4th of July celebration at the Consulate, I brought several Thai and British friends. They were invitees. That is the meaning of "non-American guests."

You seem to be reading what you want to in his comment. He was simply responding to suggestions that propose only Americans be allowed in the next time and his response was negative to the suggestion.

I did go and it was the first one I've gone to and The Dukes catering was one of the reasons why. I came as a party of 6, myself, wife and other family members. Arrived around 3:00 and got in the (short) queue for security but never thought anything of it and probably all of 15 minutes including buying my tickets. Funny thing is when I talked to my wife about us going the first thing she asked "is it safe?".

Yes, the queue was a bit of a frustration but after sitting at the table for a while trying to figure out what to do about it, the two nephews were sent off to get food for all of us. Problem solved.

I rarely drink alcoholic beverages but thought I would try something different. Got in a (short) queue for drinks and saw a VFW guy sipping on a Samuel Adams and taking a look at it with some approval so got one. Quite pleasant I thought.

Food was good. Hot dog excellent, chicken quite good but as mentioned a bit on the salty side. Only a very small piece of rib to sample though. The nephews, high school age, had no problem entertaining themselves with the games.

It was clear that the size of the crowd was unexpected and was mentioned by the announcer who apologized several times and pleaded with guests to allow those who have not eaten yet a chance. Clearly he was frustrated, but this was a massive undertaking and can't imagine any member pulling it off much better considering the unforeseen circumstances.

My biggest disappoint was I didn't find anyone I knew to chat with. Being a shy guy, just couldn't go up and ask "are you from Thaivisa?"

We ended up staying for 3 hours though the first 30 minutes had me thinking of leaving. BTW, I made sure I drained myself thoroughly before I went not knowing the toilet situation.

Gee, Why not, Tywais ??? I do that almost in those same words every day. ....and you would be suprised to see how many say yes and then cannot [or don't want to ]remember their screen names.

G

[Ulysses G.]

Where did you come up with the concept of "the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds"? When I attended the 4th of July celebration at the Consulate, I brought several Thai and British friends. They were invitees. That is the meaning of "non-American guests."

You seem to be reading what you want to in his comment.  He was simply responding to suggestions that propose only Americans be allowed in the next time and his response was negative to the suggestion.

To be fair to khun vanturalaw, he was addressing a respondent to his post in which he actually suggested bringing non-American friends in the way that the consulate ran the event in the past. He did not say anything about barring anyone at all.

[venturalaw]

Where did you come up with the concept of "the attitude only Americans on the consulate grounds"? When I attended the 4th of July celebration at the Consulate, I brought several Thai and British friends. They were invitees. That is the meaning of "non-American guests."

You seem to be reading what you want to in his comment. He was simply responding to suggestions that propose only Americans be allowed in the next time and his response was negative to the suggestion.

You are incorrect. I was not reading what I want into his comment. He was replying to my post, which, with even the most liberal (no pun intended) interpretation, could not be construed to imply that "only Americans be allowed in the next time". If he was responding to someone else's post, then perhaps it would have been clearer had he responded to that post, not mine. To make it perfectly clear, I am open to non-Americans attending the 4th of July celebration. I brought non-Americans (as I stated previously) with me. Some are family, some are friends. Hopefully this has cleared any confusion.

[eek]

Shame my friend and I didnt see you there Tywais, i would have loved to catch up with you.

[Tywais]

Hopefully this has cleared any confusion.

Appears I got the quotes mixed up and wound up interpreting it wrong, my apologies.

[venturalaw]

Hopefully this has cleared any confusion.

Appears I got the quotes mixed up and wound up interpreting it wrong, my apologies.

Thank you.

I completely agree with your excellent recommendation that next time a planning committee has open sessions for the general public for feedback and suggestions. I too believe that it would garner support and volunteers next year.

[Rasseru]

I had a fabulous time. I didn't go.

[getgoin]

Hopefully this has cleared any confusion.

Appears I got the quotes mixed up and wound up interpreting it wrong, my apologies.

Thank you.

I completely agree with your excellent recommendation that next time a planning committee has open sessions for the general public for feedback and suggestions. I too believe that it would garner support and volunteers next year.

Great idea. While applaud the arm chair critics and the possible volunteers the VFW put out many invitations for help. No one answered the call. OK, now you want to get involved. Good deal.

Last year I went down to the stadium the day before the 4th and saw how they were not set up. There were a bunch of old guys trying to move tents and get ready and it was obvious to me that they needed help. On the morning of the 4th I packed up 20 workers from The Duke's (both branches) and brought them over to the stadium. We finished setting up the tents, we put out the garbage cans, we helped with the beverage stations, we did other things and the VFW hot dog station. After that I took my workers for lunch at a local Thai restaurant. I paid them.

I think it is a great idea that the American community is willing to help. This year, after a torrential downpour the night of the 3rd, there were VFW guys crawling through the mud to get set up. I went down and dragged ice bins and filled them with precious Dr. Pepper and Sam Adams while wadding threw 2 inches of mud and water. Two of my staff slept at the venue to watch the security. The next day the Creative Kingdom staff loaded tons of sand into the water that was languishing on the field because the field was saturated.

There are thousands of man hour that go into any event.

This year the Bangkok 4th Of July was hosted by the American Chamber of Commerce. The charge at the door? 300 Baht. It was 200 Baht for a hot dog from the VFW or 200 Baht for a Roadhouse burger. So figure 300 + 200 + one drink = 600 Baht per person.

The Bangkok 4th was half as big as it was last year. No one made money and I know this because Duke's Bangkok had a stall there. Sure we made a little. Chiang Mai 4th of July was double what it was last year. The Duke's Chiang Mai did the food and manned the beverage stations. What did we make? We did it for the people. I, personally, sold more than 700 tickets this year.

It's great you want to help. Any help is welcome.

This is just the tip of the work that was done by many many people over many many days of planning and implementation. The VFW guys worked for 10 mouths on this event. Did I forget to mention that they do this for free?

Post it here that you want them to continue with the 4th of July event and you want to help. They will appreciate it.

Edited July 9, 2010 by getgoin

[eek]

Inflammatory comment removed. Please keep this thread civil from now on.

Edit: Another comment removed. I guess my post wasnt clear enough regarding being civil. Constructive criticism is one thing, but criticism for criticisms sake is not helpful. I am sure those responsible for the event are well aware now of grievances.

Edited July 9, 2010 by eek
Additional comment

[underpaid1]

hello

in my opinion, a bunch of old guys with a proven history of giving, don't go into an event of this significance with the intention of making it rich. rather, i think it would be for the satisfaction of seeing people happily stuffed and having a good time and understanding what freedom affords one.

that said, the single most damaging factor seemed to be the unknown number of tickets sold at the gate. maybe just sell a known number of presales and at the door tickets. if sold out, then thats that. it would give everyone a very good idea of what to expect.

j

[Ulysses G.]

Wouldn't it be better to just close the thread, rather than to keep deleting responses? As you pointed out, all of the grievances have pretty much already been aired.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

Like our esteemed Khun Rasseru, we did not attend the event (the sight and smell of delicious ribs we couldn't possibly swallow would have driven us more insane than usual), but, in response to this thread: would just like to express appreciation for all the hard work and volunteer energy that was provided by the Duke of David, and the VFW, and, most likely, many others.

The wise comments of Khun VenturaLaw seem to us to point to a "key issue" : what is the 4th. of July celebration, outside America, for Americans living abroad, about ?

We, personally, would not be upset to hear the French had a Bastille Day celebration in Chiang Mai to which only French passport holders, and their legal spouses and/or children were invited. Whether some national government entity (like a Consulate) is involved, however, ioho, does raise the issue of "public relations" with the host country. Our public behavior in a foreign land as a "collectivity" of fellow nationals does make a "statement" to Thailand.

In our case (our human biological component being manufactured in America), we'd feel best if the American 4th. of July celebration was seen as something to celebrate the "facts" of ethnic and cultural diversity, the "waves of migrations," as well as the "waves of grain," that made this great awkward giant of a nation that stumbled into world-superpower-hood via good, evil, and serendipity, in all its paradoxically recursive many selves (as Whitman said : "Do I contradict myself ... I contain multitudes") into ... all that it was, is, and, whether we like it or no, is constantly re-becoming itself, never repeating the same flavour.

We'd feel best if the 4th. of July celebration was a huge public event of entertainment put on for Thai people, with hundreds of farang volunteers dishing out free food, tickets being sold to raise money for scholarships for excellent Thai young students to have the opportunity to go study in America. And, oh yes, a dazzling fireworks show to light up the skies of Chiang Mai to the delight of all residents. And good 'ol American down-home blues, and rhythm-and-blues, and rock-and-roll, not to mention Zydeco, country and western, Tex-Mex ... but, please, please no Lady Gaga !

In case we appear to slur or slight the distinguished and extinguished Americans who served in foreign wars in this commentary: there is a special day of celebration and solemn remembrance for them already: Veterans' Day.

best, ~o:37;

Edited July 9, 2010 by orang37

[lannarebirth]

What Khun orang said, I second. I've just one thing to add by way of a request. Any chance it could be moved to December?

[Tywais]

Any chance it could be moved to December?

Does that mean Christmas in July now?

[BookSanook]

When contemplative meditation fails me, I always look to sixties sitcom re-runs for answers to lifes's difficult problems. Gilligan's Island comes to mind.

... consider having two July 4th events to reflect the dichotomy of the Chiang Mai cast-away culture, here.

One event for the Gilligans, Skippers, Professors, and Maryannes ... BYOB, loud music, no fences, burgers and dogs cooked on cheap grills with real charcoal, etc. Horse shoes, Frisbee, wiffle-ball; kids can be hosed off after they play in the mud. Ice cream. Water-down some Leo beer and serve it in old Budweiser bottles.

And another hi-so event for Mr. Thurston Howell III, his impeccably coiffed wife, Lovey, and his mia noi, Ginger. ... Hyannisport-style clam-bake, champagne, table-service, security officers wearing dark sunglasses. Hydrolic Japanese toilets. Croquet. Chamber music. Baked Alaska.

America is all about freedom. Freedom of choice.

[NancyL]

I love your idea, Orang. Yes, I can really get into the idea of the resident Americans putting on a traditional 4th of July celebration as a fund-raiser using American volunteer labor to raise funds to send Thai college kids to the U.S. and to share our "culture" the our Thai friends.

Hubby and I had to leave this year's celebration early because he'd eaten too much potato salad and I had to pee (see previous posts), but we had one of those magical Thai moments with a tuk-tuk driver and his female partner on our way home. They were so curious about the reason for the celebration, if it was somehow related to one of the World Wars, how many people attended and (most importantly) what time it would be over. See, the Thai people really do want to learn more about America!

We were so charmed that I wanted to give the tuk-tuk driver a small American flag that we keep right by our front door, but he sped off to return to the event before we could give it to him.

[ricwilder]

~

Were mistakes made?

For sure.

Frustrations that everything did not go right?

Yes.

Was one GRAND effort made by a small group of American combat veterans and their spouses, who have little experience in this sort of thing, simply to bring pleasure to others?

Absolutely, and I stand proud INDEED to be one of them...

Grand effort my a.. This is my American holiday, as well as theirs. As a disabled American Veteran I strongly suggest that the VFW not take on a task they have proven themselves totally incapable of doing correctly. They have displayed the same leadership qualities as the planners who got us into the Vietnam war.

Edited July 18, 2010 by ricwilder

[eek]

I believe this thread has served its purpose.

Thanks to the organisers for the event. Im sure they have enough feedback now on the festivities.

//Closed//