Is It Too Late For Us To Mend Thailand's Corrupt Ways?

[Robby nz]

Thats for sure Buddy but we have to look a little farther up like; 'who provides the money to the poo yai bahn for the pay off?'

If that money wasnt dispensed there could be no pay off, but then if the P Y B didnt get the expected pay off, as in the past, he may get pissed off with whoever was paying him before and tell people to vote the other way.

loyalty to money not to political parties?

[LomSak27]

Alant posted

So Thaksin is the source of all corruption so it follows that with him gone corruption will vanish. there is hope for all yet.

That has been the consensus of westerners, who should know better, but don't.

Hansnl posted

That is not what the man is trying to tell you.

The Government of the day, against all odds, wants to do something about corruption.

With Mr T back, that movement will simply end.

Mr T gone from the country, obviously, did not completely diminish his & cronies influence.

Fascinating about face from THE NATION. When the campaign against Mr Thaksin was building it was spun as a campaign against corruption, in the English language Thai press. However with Thaksin deposed and Samak and Somchai removed in early 2009, this magically morphed, the Nation stated that - 'This is about Thaksin, not about corruption' – in an editorial. Wow. Just a notice for all those who mistakenly thought corruption was an issue, nope it wasn’t and now that Thaksin is gone it's back to business as usual.

Now they say its an issue. Gosh what will they say tomorrow?

[blaze]

Nowhere in this article does the author refer to the systemic nature of corruption in the civil service/state enterprises. He almost seems to be suggesting that the government (and related agencies) are at the mercy of the opaque practices of the business community.

In fact even Abhsist last week remarked that the corruption in the civil service in Thailand is intolerable. He specifically singled out the customs department. Thaksin attempted to derail the gravy train between ministries and state enterprises by threatening to privatize some of the state enterprises- thus removing their historic immunitiy from public scrutiny. We all know how that effort turned out...

Anyone serious about tackling corruption in thaliand is going to have to start by taking on the state agencies/civil service. (And yes, this includes the police).

Critics of the 'system' lump the beaurocracy in with the aristocracy and the army- To many of us, that seems like odd bed-fellows- Most of us from the west think of civil servants as boring, harmless pencil pushers where their every paper clip must be approved by parliamentary oversite committees- Not however, in countries like Thailand. They are too often an empire unto themselves. Abhisit recognizes this- and he wasn't blaming (as some on this board seem to be) Thaksin for that situation.

Probably a careful study of Thaksin's relationship with that beaurocracy would show just why he was so reviled by the civil service.

Edited July 8, 2010 by blaze

[buddy]

Thats for sure Buddy but we have to look a little farther up like; 'who provides the money to the poo yai bahn for the pay off?'

If that money wasnt dispensed there could be no pay off, but then if the P Y B didnt get the expected pay off, as in the past, he may get pissed off with whoever was paying him before and tell people to vote the other way.

loyalty to money not to political parties?

Too true Robby nz, however think of the ideal, when the Poo Yai Ban cannot bribe the poor villagers to vote this way or that way, that would be real progress starting at home.

As usual its down to education, I have found that a slight like "you can be bought for little money" they normally say what are you talking about, then explain the consequences it gets them thinking, slowly slowly catch a monkey!

[Wozzit]

to start dealing with corruption, you need to start from the top and work your way down, and in Thailand top is so comfortable that i just do not see it happening any time soon.

I don't see how you can tackle corruption by singling out one group when the whole country is actively involved in it. Many of the guys at the top are there because they paid for those at the bottom to vote for them. When corruption is so endemic and so part of most people's everyday lives, the only way is to implement some massive crackdown, and follow that up up with a campaign to educate people about corruption's evil that will last for years. But who implements it and who delivers the verdicts, I just have no clue.

[whybother]

to start dealing with corruption, you need to start from the top and work your way down, and in Thailand top is so comfortable that i just do not see it happening any time soon.

I don't see how you can tackle corruption by singling out one group when the whole country is actively involved in it. Many of the guys at the top are there because they paid for those at the bottom to vote for them. When corruption is so endemic and so part of most people's everyday lives, the only way is to implement some massive crackdown, and follow that up up with a campaign to educate people about corruption's evil that will last for years. But who implements it and who delivers the verdicts, I just have no clue.

The place to start is with education ... from the top to the bottom. It will take a couple of generations to weed most of it out.

[kuffki]

to start dealing with corruption, you need to start from the top and work your way down, and in Thailand top is so comfortable that i just do not see it happening any time soon.

I don't see how you can tackle corruption by singling out one group when the whole country is actively involved in it. Many of the guys at the top are there because they paid for those at the bottom to vote for them. When corruption is so endemic and so part of most people's everyday lives, the only way is to implement some massive crackdown, and follow that up up with a campaign to educate people about corruption's evil that will last for years. But who implements it and who delivers the verdicts, I just have no clue.

sORRY but i do not agree with you.

If you start from the top and punish from top down, the bottom will see the consequences and are most likely to understand that bribing does not pay off.

Starting other way around-would not get anywhere.

[bangon04]

This opinion piece is in the (English language) Nation newspaper. I am interested to know if the same opinion was carried in the Thai popular press too.

The Nation may well lament the corruption endemic in Thai society, but a national newspaper is one of the few organisations which should be strong enough to name and shame, they are potential whistleblowers. So it is disingenuous for the Nation to wail, while its puppetmasters actually contribute to the problem.

A free (or at least fearless) press is one of the checks and balances needed to keep the rich and powerful on their toes.

[phetaroi]

Its never too late.

Most other Western well developed country's went through the same steps.

USA, UK etc and still now there is a huge scandal every few months or so.

But to start dealing with corruption, you need to start from the top and work your way down, and in Thailand top is so comfortable that i just do not see it happening any time soon.

I think the difference is that here in the west there are still the occasional scandals. That's a little different than in Thailand where it is pretty much a daily way of life, where it is perceived by virtually all people as "the way it is". It isn't even really questioned.

Edited July 8, 2010 by phetaroi

[phetaroi]

Can we define liar? Is promise breaker okay, too? Abhisit PROMISED to bring the criminals to justice who terrorised airports and occupied Government House for months. He said he would do this because it would be the right thing to do. It STILL would be. Abhisit is NO Winston Churchill.

This might be the 10th time I've asked.> Does anybody know who received the huge amount$ in bad loans that Thaksin's and Sondhi's man, Viraj, dished out. [Good loans for the recipients, eh?] Was the yacht club he now commands one of them?

What happened to the 'whistle blower' on that one. It was THIS financial corruption that started the Yellow movement, as Sondhi threw his buddy, Thaksin, under the bus, and Thailand onto to the train tracks to cover up this big time corruption.

Abhisit COULD chuck Sondhi in jail, where he, rightly, belongs and he COULD put one of those commissions towards auditing who GOT Viraj's "good" loans. You trust him to???

-------------

PS One of his Cabinet Minister's would, 100% for sure, be in jail in NZ on terrorism charges if he had done the same thing there, rioted and terrorised International citizens.

If Thailand wants to be a Global Nation they HAVE to WAKE UP!!! Otherwise they should accept what they are and hire Burmese advisors, do a North Korea.

All this being OPEN, being CLOSED is like a strobe light!!

Since the protests and the riots of May 19 I have come to a different conclusion of why there is so often inaction by the government in issues such as the one being discussed.

From my perspective during the recent red shirt protests, the government wanted to end the protests much earlier. They asked (ordered?) the army to help facilitate that. The army simply refused (until May 19). Could they count on the police to do their job in ending the protests? No, because the police were sympathetic to the red shirts. So I ask you -- who was in charge? The civilian government? No. The army? No. The police? No. Definition = anarchy.

[seanocasey]

Thailand's political climate can presently best be described as tense. Much of this tension is based on both cases and accusations of corruption as well as the issue of government legitimacy. Aside from having experienced a considerable downturn in connection to the Asian financial crisis, Thailand has displayed high economic growth rates (6-8%) since the 1960s. Thailand is generally considered to be a business-friendly economy and has for several years been able to offer favourable investment incentives to foreign companies (e.g. tax exemptions, especially if the investment includes new technology or is located in a less developed area) and good investment protection compared to many other countries in the region. However, Thailand's investment climate continues to suffer from several obstacles. Companies consider corruption to be a large barrier to doing business in Thailand, along with hidden costs related to red tape, government and policy instability and inefficient government bureaucracy.

Positive developments in relation to corruption and investment:

* Thailand has the legal framework to effectively counter corruption.

* The new Constitution of 2007 contains provisions about access to public information. The access to information is normally provided to citizens and the right is enjoyed without other restrictions than those related to national security and public safety.

* The Government of Thailand has recently pledged publicly to combat corruption within the procurement and contracting sector, such as to improve transparency in the bidding processes and rewarding of contracts

Risks of corruption:

* Corruption is reportedly a significant problem in Thailand, both within the private and public sectors, but it is mainly found in the intersection between business and government where demands for facilitation payments are widespread.

* Bribery is particularly concentrated in a few governmental sectors in charge of large financial transactions: the Land Department, Tax and Customs Department, the Transport Department, and the Police Department.

* The main source of corruption in Thailand is considered to be the money politics, meaning the flow of money within the political scene, stemming from the high degree of interconnectedness existing between the business sector and the political system.

My link

give the press more freedom, form an independent fraud dept

[siampolee]

Thai history may well provide the answer as to the whys and wherefores concerning the passing of money to enhance services !!

The problem is that when the Civil Service was first instigated it was the role of the educated to implement the rulings that came from on high.

No salaries were paid and of course the educated classes came from somewhat more affluent backgrounds than the average person. Hence the criteria for the post was a primarily wealth which equated to education which resulted in power

The custom was to offer a Tical or two as compensation for any services as may have been rendered by the civil servants ( i.e. money for tea or food ) has over the years morphed into usage . For usage let us substitute the word corruption.

The problem, custom usage is ingrained into Thai society and indeed it will take an enormous amount of time to exorcise this practice from daily life.

Edited July 9, 2010 by siampolee

[blaze]

Thai history may well provide the answer as to the whys and wherefores concerning the passing of money to enhance services !!

The problem is that when the Civil Service was first instigated it was the role of the educated to implement the rulings that came from on high.

No salaries were paid and of course the educated classes came from somewhat more affluent backgrounds than the average person. Hence the criteria for the post was a primarily wealth which equated to education which resulted in power

The custom was to offer a Tical or two as compensation for any services as may have been rendered by the civil servants ( i.e. money for tea or food ) has over the years morphed into usage . For usage let us substitute the word corruption.

The problem, custom usage is ingrained into Thai society and indeed it will take an enormous amount of time to exorcise this practice from daily life.

Very good and succinct explanation of the roots of beaurocratic corruption- and why in fact, corruption in the civil service is not really regarded as 'wrong'- it is part of the culture with its roots in the tax farming etc of bygone generations.

Edited July 9, 2010 by blaze

[Robby nz]

It is possible that we are seeing the start of this Govt's efforts to deal with corruption, for instance I understand there were several police chiefs who were relieved of their positions (transfered to inactive service?) over their inaction to stop the burning of Govt buildings in several provences and there was one provincial governer given the order of the hobnail boot in similar circumstances.

Then there is the recent "High ranked navy officer" who has had his illegal Pharma factory raided

I doubt that somebody has 'just found out' about it yet it has only now been raided.

Could these actions be a signal to others "shape up or you will be next"

Even if this is true there will still be many other with the attitude that it cant happen to me so a lot more will be needed.

It will be interesting to see the result of the coming by-election as this will be an indication of whether the people want corruption to continue or not.