"We Are Guests In This Country"

[jackr]

When yhou leave your house don't let the door knob hit you in the arse on the way out.

Fair dos, in every thousand or so posts you have a good un.

[T_Dog]

In Chiang Mai there was a crack down on motorbikes and cars on the cross walks at major intersections last month according to the wife. Apparently lots of riders of all walks of life got tickets.

[jts-khorat]

Whenever I hear such nonsense I reply:

Guests the world over do actually get preferential treatment, not the opposite.

[Thakkar]

You have also paid a visa fee for the 'right' to request entry to the Kingdom.

This can, of course, be denied (or revoked) at any time.

If the BiB want us to act like 'guests' then maybe they could start by acting more like hosts, rather than modern day highwaymen.

When an immigration officer refers to me as 'an alien' I don't imagine he thinks of me as someone from another planet. If a particular official refers to me as a 'guest', clearly he means my right to be here can be revoked anytime and according to immigration rules, that's mostly true.

--

It's true that it is much easier to become a fully-fledged Briton, American, Canadian or Australian than Thai, Korean, Japanese or Chinese. Among Asian countries, Thailand is actually more welcoming than most and it is possible, though not at all easy, to become fully-fledged Thai. Being welcomed by individual Thai's is, I find, as much up to us as them. Of course, there will always be some that will never welcome outsiders. This is true everywhere.

[moe666]

If you are not treated well what about the Issan hick who comes to Bangkok, talk about a second class citizen.

[Berkshire]

There is a plane leaving every day. What else is there to say?

My sentiments as well. The OP really isn't asking for equal treatment--he's pretty much getting that--he wants special treatment. If your requirement to be happy in Thailand is that the Thai's adapt to the farang-way of thinking and doing things, then you're just pissing in the wind. It ain't never going to happen. So in fact, the best answer to give to a chronic whiner is "you don't like it here, go home!"

[doggie888888]

Are there any white faces here with Thai citizenship? If you don't want to be a guest or alien or whatever labels you find unacceptable for a "non-immigrant", then perhaps it's time to get that Thai ID and whip it out whenever you are wrongy accused of being a mere "guest".

[MrJohnson]

When you say "guests", do you mean that you feel like a "self-invited guest" and not a "guest". In other words, if you're a guest you'd be welcomed, but I get the idea you feel otherwise?

Actually, I came here the first time to work for a company, so I was actually invited and paid to be here. Still paid to be here but have changed companies. By "guests" it is both the statement, "we/you are only guests here" as well as the treatment by some (not all of course) Thais.

I don't think we deserve special treatment, but equal treatment would be nice. I don't need to be reminded by police or anyone else that I'm a guest. I find it a little condescending when this is used.

Can't imagine treating the Thais in my home country in the same manner or reminding them that they are only guests, then making them pay more for something than they should or treat them any differently then I would anyone else.

You raise an interesting conundrum. However I read it as being quite rhetorical. I think the answer is that you/I/we will always be regarded as such (outsiders), regardless of your Thai lnaguage ability, Thai driver's license, paying taxes etc.. You only need to look at the way our cousins from the Sub-continent are referred to and for many of them who have Thai citizenship and have been here for generations it may seem very odd but I do think it is a good indicator. In terms of equal treatment I think we all have to take the good with the bad. What I mean is that many times I have been given preferential treatment becqause I am a foreigner and then on other other occassions it has worked the other way. BTW - I am not saying 'get on the next plane' rather just take it on the chin and don't let it get you down.

[evanson]

Ok the OP is not really griping about the police. He is asking when we stop being 'Guests' here in Thailand. I do uderstand what he says. I have a Thai friend who lives in the UK he has a Thai restuarant. He pays taxes etc. And nobody says 'you are ony a guest here'

I work here. pay taxes, work permit, truck, motorcycle ect. and still sometimes people that should know better suggest that i'm just a guest here.

I believe its just a misunderstanding between the English/Thai translation.

But I'm not a tourist. I live here i do not live in the UK therefore the same as my Thai friend in the UK. I'm not a guest here in Thailand.

That's what I was described as at the local police station, after living here and being married to a Thai for 12 years<_<

[Soutpeel]

Are there any white faces here with Thai citizenship? If you don't want to be a guest or alien or whatever labels you find unacceptable for a "non-immigrant", then perhaps it's time to get that Thai ID and whip it out whenever you are wrongy accused of being a mere "guest".

Knowing a couple of guys who actually are Thai Citizens, have the passport etc...in their own words....Will never be truely be accepted as being "Thai"....they will always been seen as a farang, but then again dont give a f*kc what they think........

If you are not Permanent Resident or Citizen....you are a tourist/guest/alien/temporary resident...which ever you prefer....

We have no legal standing or rights and at the whime of a goverment/goverment offical and be kicked out the country at any point, the sooner the Thai apologists/pseudo-thai accept this the better

[canuckamuck]

I am a visitor not a guest.

If I was a guest I would expect some preferential treatment. As it stands, no one gives a satang about whether I come or go, unless they think they can make a few baht off me.

[Extraterrestrial]

You were a victim of a raciest Thai police man, but that's Thailand the land of smiles, You should just except that its Thailand or don't live there. ++++++++++++++++++++`----We in Britain , or most of us have a sense of fair play, Some thing that Thailand does not understand , it just does not translate in Thai.As for the London police the finest in the world would probably have back up in the form of videos if in London, I have never had any problem with any police in the UK, Thailand is corrupt and most Ex pats and people know it , Falang equal baht.

Unfortunately or fortunately (you can look at it both ways), "farangs" will always be guests.

The situation is, I think, similar in Japan, where foreigners are never totally accepted.

We are all outsiders: aliens (if you do not believe me, look in your passport)

[slapout]

I have sometimes wondered about asking people who are perceived as rude for their photo. When asked, why, tell them, it is for my photo album of (fill in blank)people, I meet during my daily life.

[citizen33]

I have sympathy for the OP's point of view, and conversely have to confess to feeling increasingly irked by the 'plane leaving every day' brigade. I think that the last time I heard the 'only a guest here' line was from a Siam Global House manager, who didnt care for my complaint that SGH were charging for floor tiles by the square metre but rounding this to take account of box sizes, so that if you bought 50 square metres you actually received 48 (ruined my calculations). In an era of globalisation, where Thais themselves travel widely and where Thailand is a signatory to many international treaties, there is an increasing obligation to apply usual international standards in dealing with expats and visitors. Admittedly, change is going to take a while, but globalisation is like a giant steamroller that will take some stopping. My guess is that the people who defend the traditional order actually like the status quo where 200 baht pays off the BIB and the girl from Isaan is at your command for not much more.

Edited July 9, 2010 by citizen33

[Jingthing]

Guests are invited. We are mostly crashers (and generally treated that way).

[harrypatterson]

I sympathize with the problem of the original posting, but perhaps there might be another side to this story. But perhaps not. What I find interesting is that I never encounter such problems with the police here. Perhaps I am just lucky, or maybe because I am older. But then I do not know the age of OP either. As for being guest here, oddly in my own case even though I am farang and do not even speak Thai as well as some farangs, I feel more like a member of the community here than I did back home. People treat me fine, in general, and vice versa. I mean in general, as there are nasty bastards wherever you go. The point is back home I did not even know most of my neighbors. People were suspicious and paranoid and after dark everyone locked up tight like it was Iraq. Here my neighbors smile and say hello and if I need help, like with flat tire or fixing something, always someone is willing to help. Nothing is perfect of course. Not even the so-called apologist will say the driving here is not awful. I complain constantly myself about pollution in March. But really mister OP, if the worst things anyone calls you is a guest, then this is not so bad. I have been called far worse than that. (Probably rightly, to be honest.)

Also, think many people here complain because they need to "vent." This is a word I hear frequently from my daughter, who is venting constantly. It is human nature, and perhaps some forum members have no close farang friends to inflict this venting upon. So one should grant some slack. However, if this venting in Thailand becomes chronic, then it may be time to take forum advice and find somewhere else to be a guest.

[frankman]

The Thais will never accept a farang as anything else than an ATM.

[sarahsbloke]

How did he know you were a guest?

Ask to see your Thai ID card?

I suspect not!

As for guest status, I was invited by my wife, in fact she begged me to stay in Thailand and not go back to the UK ..... ever.

So I don't think that makes me a 'crasher'

Edited July 9, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[RusticCharm]

 

as a car driver, i hate when motorcyclists drive in the right lane. stay where you belong or purchase a car.

My bike belongs in the fast lane.

As a biker, I hate it when car drivers block the fast lane by driving slowly. 

Get out of the way or stay in the slow lane.

[mellow1]

You know the answer to your own question. The reality is that you were shaken down by a crooked cop that really isn't crooked within the Thai context since such behaviour is encouraged and condoned by the governing authorities. What we see as corruption is acceptable in Thailand, since no one ever takes to the streets and no one is ever charged and convicted etc. This is why Thailand will never advance as a nation. Dishonest practices discourage innovation and sustainable development since the incentive to succeeed is removed. It's all about short term profits. You are a guest in the upside down world, where wrong is right and right is wrong and the people live with it. When a government official, and a police office at that, tells you that you are a guest, take the hint. This is the way it is and there is nothing that you can do about it. if you want to live in Thailand then you have to accept it. You are the house n*gger; Treated a little better than the field slaves, but still a slave and still subject to the abuse and denial of basic civil liberties, because you are not Thai.

Did you get your answer?

[luckyluke]

Showing you can speak Thai is not always a good idea, depends on the occasion, sometimes it's better to pretend not to speak Thai, makes your Thai"opponent" feel superior, as he can speak some English.

Edited July 9, 2010 by luckyluke

[skyaslimit]

I totaly agrees, some time it is wise not to speak thai because it resolves a lot of problems automaticaly, for example, when I drive, I try to avoid speaking thai when ever intercepted by traffic police (even and unless it is necessary like in the case of an accident or something serious happened), normaly they try to explain the offense in thai but if you keeps asking ...........what?.....what? what I did? then in my personal experience they feel quite uncomfortable to explain the offense in english (be aware now a days sometimes they do) and you might get a chance to resolve the matter quickly because a lot of genral public will be staring the officer.

[Birdman]

on the highway to Had Yai from BKK there is no public and speaking nothing at all plus showing the Thai driving license would probably be an advantage.

Anyway, it's not a matter of Farangs, who live in this country, are guests or not. They are here to stay with more or less rights, care more or less, they are here and therefore are a part of the population of this country.

[Beetlejuice]

The answer to the title of this thread is:

We are guests until the Thai Immigration authorties give us real Immigrant status, allow us to become Thai citizens and hold a Thai passport, that I know is possible but very difficult and complicated for the average farang living in Thailand.

That would be our official status if given Thai citizenship, but the Thais would still never view us as Thai nationals, we will always be farangs (foreigners) in their eyes.

But so what, it doesn`t bother me.

[Ulysses G.]

I concur completely.

[mca]

As a general opinion I think a lot of westerners would be a lot happier not sweating the small stuff here. I couldn't give a flying one how some Thais view us. If they see me as a guest then so what. It has no effect on my everyday life whatsoever. Their opinion has no bearing at all on my day to day life. If a local is rude enough to point out to me that I'm a guest or farang or whatever then I'm happy to let them revel in their ignorance without giving it a second thought.

[samuibeachcomber]

You know the answer to your own question. The reality is that you were shaken down by a crooked cop that really isn't crooked within the Thai context since such behaviour is encouraged and condoned by the governing authorities. What we see as corruption is acceptable in Thailand, since no one ever takes to the streets and no one is ever charged and convicted etc. This is why Thailand will never advance as a nation. Dishonest practices discourage innovation and sustainable development since the incentive to succeeed is removed. It's all about short term profits. You are a guest in the upside down world, where wrong is right and right is wrong and the people live with it. When a government official, and a police office at that, tells you that you are a guest, take the hint. This is the way it is and there is nothing that you can do about it. if you want to live in Thailand then you have to accept it. You are the house n*gger; Treated a little better than the field slaves, but still a slave and still subject to the abuse and denial of basic civil liberties, because you are not Thai.

So true,but we come knowing these things,so we therefore accept these things as part and parcel of living here.The saying "you are guest here" is true in thai eyes and i guess should be in our own eyes as we have to get visa extensions every year,and if retired have to have X amount of money here to qualify,really life here is a year by year basis.On top of that its dodgy at least to try and own land and house in your own name never knowing when it can all be rescinded,many go the root of company title ownership, but how secure is that?So yes we are certainly guests by these standards.If i had a company,employed thai's,paid my taxes,had a thai family i would feel peeved to be considered just a guest though.

[thaibkk]

if any of those big legal firms here in thailand would start a union for falang rights, i would be the first to pay membership

but we are guest and have no rights, except to spend our money and leave when you have none anymore

many thais ways would end up in court for racism charges in my home country, that is what i know

[whybother]

I don't get too annoyed when Thai's say that I am just a guest here. What annoy's me is when farangs on TVF say "remember, you are only a guest here".

[tigerfish]

I don't get too annoyed when Thai's say that I am just a guest here. What annoy's me is when farangs on TVF say "remember, you are only a guest here".

yes, but dont you see in their eyes, having spent sooooooooo long in the LOS. they already think they are thai and carry an attitude, looking down of the rest of us for having an opinion. usually bringing out that time honoured chestnest of "if you do like it here".

worse case scenario.

can you imagine if some of them actually were given citizenship and were appointed as immigration officials at swampy.

christ the shit youd have to go through, just to get an entry visa.

Edited July 11, 2010 by tigerfish