Can You Sleep At Night

[ThaiLife]

I was sitting here in front of my PC , when it crashed and would not re boot up, in the end I did managed to get every thing back to normal again, but it went through my mind , what would have happened if I could not have got it to boot up again, and I had to take it to a computer repair shop and leave it with them to sort out . What about all my personal photo's , what about emails on Thunderbird, what about all the screen shots ive taken of my bank statements , what about all my Firefox book marks and browsing history , what about all my personal stuff , So there's my PC sat in the repair shop with all my personal stuff on its hard drive, ok may be the repair guy's don't bother to see whats there , or may be they do . So have you ever had the same nightmare thoughts of what if your PC / Mac had to go

in for repair and all your personal stuff is being shown around the repair works shop , have you made any plans for the day when your computer is handed over to a stranger . Have you any thoughts on how to deal with this situation or put some thing into place on your computer that will deal with the nightmare .

I know its a wider ranging subject ..

any thoughts, comments Please :jap:

[gtm2k]

Usually I do all the fixing myself. But the last time my notebook needed a fix, it went to the shop without the hard-drive. I asked them slot in a spare-drive in case they needed to boot-up.

Cheers

Gautam

[siamjj]

what are your worried about? maybe you have crap there that we all don't need to see!

[sulasno]

Usually I do all the fixing myself. But the last time my notebook needed a fix, it went to the shop without the hard-drive. I asked them slot in a spare-drive in case they needed to boot-up.

Cheers

Gautam

thumbs up ^^^

[Glimcoil]

Bringing the computer without a disk works (unfortunaly) only in most cases. My MacBook as a example: If the mainboard fails (or other things) Apple usually demands the Laptop with the original disk to honor the warranty.

So I basically just removed the original harddisk and keep it at a safe place for these cases when I need to swap it back for getting the laptop repaired. (And my drives never goes to the

shop.)

But if you are concerned about your disk contents, then definitly look into some encryption (specially in case of a laptop). I suggest TrueCrypt which is free and runs on Windows/Mac/Linux.

All depends on what's on your disk. In my case it's sensitive work related stuff.

- Martin

[witold]

Nobody cares about your personal stuff and photos - unless you're a really hot girl.  No one cares about your bank account screen shots either.  And you shouldn't be keeping important things like bank passwords on your desktop. 

In other words, don't be so worried.  Or alternatively if you want to be paranoid just keep some folders under password.  

[thaimite]

I normally do all my own fixing, so it is not a problem for me, but here is a tip I read a long time ago especially for people who are buying brand name PCs

First buy the PC with as small a hard drive as you can, and also buy a new large hard drive at the same time,

When you get home make a recovery disk and use it to install the Operating system on the new hard drive putting the old one away for safe keeping.

Should your system fail, remove your hard disk with all your personal information and replace it with the original small drive.

This has 3 advantages

1. If the PC still will not start, it proves the fault is not with your programs but with the hardware

2. It means when the manufacturer replaces the drive or PC you do not lose any valuable data

3 You are not giving a drive full of personal information to the repair shop.

Should you find when installing the original drive that everything works then you know you have a software and not a hardware problem (other than a faulty drive) and can proceed accordingly.

As for my personal sensitive information, I keep that on a separate USB drive that does not need to go back to the shop in the event of a PC failure

[siamect]

Have you made any plans for the day when your computer is handed over to a stranger .

Have you any thoughts on how to deal with this situation or put some thing into place on your computer that will deal with the nightmare .

I know its a wider ranging subject ..

I think you touched of the one most important subjects and the worries you have is most likely very motivated and yes it is a wider ranging subject. Most likely the repairguy is not the one to be most scared of...

Our computers... most computers, already in the hands of strangers. The truth is that we have to trust the software for our privacy , written by a number (10 000 or so) of to us complete strangers. Software have also access to the data after it is decrypted.... so desk encryption doesn't help...Hope that makes everybody feel better.

This situation, has already been there from day one when you bought you computer,mobile phone or what ever, To deal with this is a continuous effort , In my case I try not to use proprietary software, at least, with free software there is a possibility for the public to review the sources. It is not solving the whole issue but it is at least better than nothing.

Martin

Edited July 11, 2010 by siamect

[lopburi3]

In Thailand believe you lose the guarantee with any such entry/removal.

So you either protect the data before you fail (use encryption or external drive) or you have shop take out drive when you ask for service if still in guarantee period.

[sarahsbloke]

Gary Glitter needs to post on this topic.

But until then, let me suggest you never place any unencrypted data on your computer that you wouldn't want others to see/read.

Or use a USB drive of some form for risky data.

Or don't use your computer for pornography ....... I can't think of any actual content on my PC that I cared a jot about being seen by anyone.

Edited July 11, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[davee58]

Another thing that might give concern is:

Would you trust the repair man to recover your data.

Family photos, Financial records, Music collection, Video collection, Airline tickets, e-mail addresses. All of these can be lost by a crappy repair man if you do not have a decent backup strategy.

But yes, privacy should be a concern for everybody...

[siamect]

Another thing that might give concern is:

Would you trust the repair man to recover your data.

Family photos, Financial records, Music collection, Video collection, Airline tickets, e-mail addresses. All of these can be lost by a crappy repair man if you do not have a decent backup strategy.

But yes, privacy should be a concern for everybody...

Really a good point.

Good backups will help you with privacy because iif you have a problem with the disk, you can just destroy it and threw away the remains... you never get to the point of taking it to the repair guy.

Bad backups may be exactly the opposite and most of the online backup systems are really crappy, involving proprietary software that you have to install on your computer.

No privacy at all...

From the backup point of view, most of them (including Mozy) does not even beat a standard daily,weekly,monthly schedule so except for the geographic location, whats the point?

Martin

[Crossy]

Would you trust the repair man to recover your data.

Actually I'd say "Would you trust the repair man to not to destroy your data." Many, many of the service outlets format the drive and re-install the OS as part of the 'service'.

Many moons ago when I was doing PC repair as a sideline (when on the dole), we actually got a machine in with some highly illegal photos. We called the local plod who told us to let the owner have the machine back after we fixed it, they raided him a couple of weeks later. Nice of them to keep us somewhat out of the frame for dobbing him in.

[filingaccount]

3 things to prevent sleepless nights.

1. Backup your data. It's simple. Plug in an external USB HDD, and copy+paste your critical data (docs, compromising photos :jap: , game saves, etc)

2. Back up your data. It's simple. Use any number of automatic backup solutions available. I suggest Acronis.

3. See #1 and #2.

Another things to consider when your primary HDD fails is to have an operating system that boots off of a USB memory stick. This would enable you to boot the PC and initiate a manual backup of recoverable data.

PM me if you want such a solution. I'll make it for you if you send me the USB memory stick (even 1 GB is enough).

[ThaiLife]

Thanks Guy's for all the advice and comments, its much appreciated :jap:

So it seems I have several options to end the nightmare of switching on my laptop and it will not boot up ...

1. First make a full backup of my current laptop HDD

2. Take the laptop into the repair shop minus the HDD and ask them to use one of there's

to check out the boot up

3. Keep all my personal items ( photos, screen shots Etc) on a separate external HDD

4. Use a USB thumb drive and a portable email application ( keep emails safe )

5. Use an operating system that boots off of a USB memory stick to boot the PC and initiate

a manual backup of recoverable data

6. Buy a second internal HDD and install the original OS ( from the recovery disc that came with my laptop ) and keep it. Should my laptop no boot up, I would remove the original internal HDD that contains my private items and install the new un touched internal HDD , if the laptop still does not boot up then I can take it to a repair shop knowing there's no private items on the HDD.

7. Just don't worry - no one at the repair shop will look

Have I missed any Thing

[chaihot]

Yes, keep backups.

If you have anything on your system that is important, critical, or damaging, it should be encrypted by something other than Mickey-Mouse file locking.

I use drive-crypt (paid). Others use true-crypt which is free. Both act as virtual drives under encryption protection. If your computer crashes while the virtual drive is open, the password is gone and that portion of the drive is locked from prying eyes. If your drive fails, you lose your data regardless which is why backups are important. But the backup should be encrypted as well.

If you want to use file-by-file encryption, try Away32.

You have all those other suggestions to contend with .. such as keep everything on a USB thumb drive (where it can be misplaced, much less pocketed by staff).

Family photos, Financial records, Music collection, Video collection, Airline tickets, e-mail addresses. All of these can be lost by a crappy repair man if you do not have a decent backup strategy.

And all of these can be TAKEN by a crappy repair man.

7. Just don't worry - no one at the repair shop will look

Surprisingly, this is the belief that many have.

The other option that someone wrote was to remove the hard drive, bring the system to the shop, have them install a new drive and OS. When you get home, you add your old hd as a slave (secondary) and access your data again. That assumes you can do this.

If my drive were to fail, and I had important data that I needed to recover, I would package the drive and fedex it to a certified USA data recovery company. I would *NEVER* bring it to a Thai shop. Of course, I wouldn't send it anywhere if I had anything damaging on it.

Good luck.

[nikster]

Safety and privacy are two different issues.

For safety, keep backups. Tons of programs to do this on windows, on the Mac just use the built in TimeMachine which automates the process to the point where you never have to think about it.

For privacy/security, do this:

- get a Mac - no issues with malware. Alternatively, be very careful and use the latest AV program (note the "and" in there, an AV program alone is not enough)

- encrypt your account (built-in in the Mac)

- create a guest account with no rights which the tech can use to fix your computer

- keep your really sensitive data in encrypted disk image files (built-in on the Mac). Use very long passwords for these.

Of course the best thing is to remove the HD first if you want to be absolutely paranoid. I just think that in the real world, you need to do a threat assessment - you are a million times more likely to be compromised by some malware than you are by a service tech.

- watch out for google. They like to store your stuff forever and ever.

[OxfordWill]

If you have sensitive data on a drive which is not encrypted you are unnecessarily putting your data at risk. Handing said drive over to a capable stranger multiplies this risk hugely.

[astral]

There are several good encryption programmes to keep your personal data safe.

I use Bestcrypt, but there are others.

[siamect]

There are good and bads in everyone...

But I see some odd stuff in this thread:

1. Someone say backup is easy, just copy and paste...

2. For security/privacy use Mac!

3. Timemachine simplifies backups so you don't have to think of it...

4. Acronis...

The problem with point 1 is that backups are hard... it's not easy at all.

Just the other day someone came to me and said the version of the file that she needed had been over written because it was not on the monthly and the daily and weekly was already over written. This is a common problem in most traditional backup systems. In this case it is a professional tape backup system using LTO-4 tapes and the backup schedules are the same as most larger corporation have. The tapes are stored off-site in two locations.

There was nothing wrong with the backups, but the expectations from the owner of the data was not meet, mainly because of ignorance. I was aware of this risk I had arranged and additional backups and the problem was solved, but that is outside of what our auditors require. The owner of this data? QA of course...

The other problem with point 1 is that you change a file by mistake and you will never find out... you live with an incorrect file for ages and the incorrect file is backed up.... The correct file was correct for less than a month and it didn't survive long enough to be included in a monthly backup.

Both these problems can be solved with distributed version control systems for example Git.

Outlook is extremely difficult to backup, (just one file to copy, easy to backup according to MS)... bingo! That file is a monolith and causes all incremental and full backups to grow without limit. It is the total volume every time. 5Gb every day per user? Insane!

Point 2 should be quite obvious. Mac is a proprietary OS where only some part (the kernel) is open source. Apple is not exactly known for guarding your privacy. The security of Mac... You have absolutely no clue, because it is proprietary software, and therefore no public review and no knowledge to the users. All opinions about security of proprietary software is based on no substance at all.

Point 3 please see point 1. But Time-machine is worse since it also deletes old stuff if it runs low on disk-space on the backup volume... so if you have a large file that changes often (virtual disk image for ex) and you are not excluding them form the backup, it will kill your older data in zero time... so enable the warning for deleting old stuff from the backup. This is a solution that may work but it require very frequent supervision. And whatever you do, use at least two separate volumes beside the original disk. The old versions of your files are only on the backup volume and that is a single point of failure unless you have many backup volumes.

Point 4. Backups should never ever be done in a format that is proprietary and closed. Acronis and many others are using proprietary formats, something that is patented and/or not openly specified and therefore not reachable without the original software. When someone buys the Acronis company and close down the product-line because it doesn't fit the rest of the company profile... It has happened before. MS just closed one product that many people used for backups... There was a discussion in this forum not long ago.

The next thing with Acronis is not even needed to mention. Look in the FAQ about licenses and you see that this is a jungle.

Conclusion: I wouldn't touch Acronis with a ten foot pole, dressed up in a suit borrowed the national nuclear power-plant emergency squad...

Encryption.... same there. Use only encryption software that is under free licenses. That way the sources are open to public review. You can be sure that you can get the software when you want to decrypt your encrypted data. The GNU Privacy Guard is a good program that can be used for encryption and a lot of other stuff to.

But of course, you never heard anything so ridiculous in your life and by the way, it is your data, maybe it's not that important...

Martin

Edited July 13, 2010 by siamect

[OxfordWill]

In situations where files are under regular revision it is advisable to use versioning repositories- they take 5 mins to setup. We use SVN for all our code projects and I believe even Micro$oft sharepoint has versioning.

[filingaccount]

There are good and bads in everyone...

But I see some odd stuff in this thread:

Let me point out the "stuff" you seem to be taking from my post.

Backups ARE simple. No need to dress it up, make it sound complicated, confusing and/or potentially dangerous. It isn't. Most people only want their personal data saved externally. They do not need incremental backups, nor do they need many copies of the same file with slight changes in each one. Generally speaking what people need and want are temporary (or semi permanent) copies of data while their computer is being repaired and/or upgraded.

And we are talking about what the OP needs, not what a multinational, multi-office, 600-people company might need (or whatever).... context?

Acronis IS great. Don't tell me your installed software and backups vanish should the company go bye-bye. You still have your backups, you still have the software. Should Acronis change strategies, be bought, or go out of business, then by all means change backup solutions should you disagree with their new business ways. Still, that doesn't mean your backed up data has "gone bad" overnight....

Just because it is not open source, doesn't mean it is "bad".

You seem to have an issue with anything that is not open source. That's great. I'm all for it. It is your personal opinion, but that doesn't mean a closed source, proprietary software functions poorly. Many times these kinds of software functions much better (eg. Skype).

To go back on topic again... The OP needs to ensure his personal data is safe while his computer is at the shops...

That is simple and easy. Manual back up of data. Nothing complicated.

If OP is sure the HDD is not damaged, then it might be as easy as pulling the HDD then sending the computer in for repair.

Again, simple, easy, not confusing and doesn't require days or weeks of preparation. A couple of hours and you are set.

[siamect]

Acronis IS great. Don't tell me your installed software and backups vanish should the company go bye-bye. You still have your backups, you still have the software. Should Acronis change strategies, be bought, or go out of business, then by all means change backup solutions should you disagree with their new business ways. Still, that doesn't mean your backed up data has "gone bad" overnight....

Just because it is not open source, doesn't mean it is "bad".

You seem to have an issue with anything that is not open source. That's great. I'm all for it. It is your personal opinion, but that doesn't mean a closed source, proprietary software functions poorly. Many times these kinds of software functions much better (eg. Skype).

As I said, it's your data, maybe it's not that important. and maybe you have never lost any data...

The question is not whether Acronis or other software works and I never said proprietary software doesn't work...

No, the question is whether you can legally run it the day you need your backup.... If you cannot guarantee that...

That's the reason you should not store stuff in proprietary formats.

But again... it is up to you to judge whether it is important to do it legally right or not.

For me it is important... and it is important to give people the right advice.

Martin

Edited July 14, 2010 by siamect

[filingaccount]

No, the question is whether you can legally run it the day you need your backup.... If you cannot guarantee that...

Care to expand on that? Why wouldn't one legally be able to restore backed up data with the purchased software?

[siamect]

No, the question is whether you can legally run it the day you need your backup.... If you cannot guarantee that...

Care to expand on that? Why wouldn't one legally be able to restore backed up data with the purchased software?

You need one license per physical machine. The one you had the license for is broken.

You need to have a new license on you new computer to be able to restore. And if the licenses for this software is no longer for sale then you are trapped...

and it happens... I'm responsible for machines a cannot restore legally... and I don't.

Martin

Edited July 14, 2010 by siamect

[thaimite]

No, the question is whether you can legally run it the day you need your backup.... If you cannot guarantee that...

Care to expand on that? Why wouldn't one legally be able to restore backed up data with the purchased software?

I would also be interested in an answer to that. If software is no longer legal to use because the origators no longer exist of if I refuse to buy an upgrade that has been issued then this would have a big impact on many industries and nobody shuld ever use commercial software

What would happen t companies that rely on important documents or spreadsheets originally written in MS office if something should happen to Microsoft over the next 10 years? I cannot imagine it would no longer be legal to use those files, and if I did use them, Microsoft would not be able to take me to court as they would no loner exist!

[filingaccount]

You need one license per physical machine. The one you had the license for is broken.

You need to have a new license on you new computer to be able to restore. And if the licenses for this software is no longer for sale then you are trapped...

and it happens... I'm responsible for machines a cannot restore legally... and I don't.

Martin

Single user license.

Not the same as single computer license.

Directly from Acronis (http://www.acronis.c.../faq.html#lq8):

Q: Can I install the Acronis product that I already have on a new PC or workstation?

A: You can use your existing license to install the software on a new PC or workstation if your previous system has been decommissioned.

Next time, please make sure you have your facts straight before bashing anything.

[thaimite]

You need one license per physical machine. The one you had the license for is broken.

You need to have a new license on you new computer to be able to restore. And if the licenses for this software is no longer for sale then you are trapped...

and it happens... I'm responsible for machines a cannot restore legally... and I don't.

Martin

Single user license.

Not the same as single computer license.

Directly from Acronis (http://www.acronis.c.../faq.html#lq8):

Q: Can I install the Acronis product that I already have on a new PC or workstation?

A: You can use your existing license to install the software on a new PC or workstation if your previous system has been decommissioned.

Next time' date=' please make sure you have your facts straight before bashing anything.

[/quote']

With Acronis you can recover from the recoivery CD without installing anything, so technically I would not see using it to recover data as a breach of contract

[filingaccount]

With Acronis you can recover from the recoivery CD without installing anything, so technically I would not see using it to recover data as a breach of contract

True, but the point is that you don't "lose" your licence nor would you be "illegally" running this software after purchase no matter how long ago you bought it, or how many computers you have had since, or if the company goes out of business or were bought or whatever. Your purchased license is still yours.

[thaimite]

With Acronis you can recover from the recoivery CD without installing anything, so technically I would not see using it to recover data as a breach of contract

True, but the point is that you don't "lose" your licence nor would you be "illegally" running this software after purchase no matter how long ago you bought it, or how many computers you have had since, or if the company goes out of business or were bought or whatever. Your purchased license is still yours.

I agree 100%, so using Acronis which I used to rate vary highly before I switched to Ubuntu is no problem. Now if Acronis would make a Linux home version I would be very happy although I know there are other options which I am already using