Thailand Urged To Provide Incentives For Women To Produce 'Qualitative' Children

[kissdani]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

Ditto

Farang will not produce any better babies. That is totally stupid and racist.

[TAWP]

Statistics would tell you that kids of farangs in Thailand has better starting point that what the kids from the same mother would have been given if they came from a thai man.

Pure economics.

[kissdani]

As every farang know a Thais first love is money NOT their families

Your are just a stupid Farang.

[inthepink]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Not necessarily. Western men often have more means to support the family,

and come from a place where family units and early learning are valued higher.

It's not hard to see the differences between local custom and mores

and where you come from and/or have lived.

Well I can only speak as I find and the majority of Western men I have met in Thaiiland are not that well off. Conversely, I know many Thai men who are in a much better position to support their families.

I still think it's an insulting post, borne out of a misplaced feeling of superiority but that's just my personal opinion.

[Jirapa]

I've been here 10 years, spend all my money here and have given Thailand 3 infants who can point out Thailand and the UK on a globe of the world along with several other countries and the continents. They all speak Thai and English and are doing very well in all subjects at school so maybe Thailand should be giving out free non-immigrant visas and forget about the current clauses to getting one for people such as myself who are happy and willing to start a family here with a Thai husband or wife and actually support that family. Nuff said!

[nakachalet]

As every farang know a Thais first love is money NOT their families

Your are just a stupid Farang.

just who do you call.... stupid.... man?

exactly which farang do you call stupid....?

[NanaFoods]

Why didn't this guy ever stop to think that perhaps he should research all the factors and implications a bit more before making a public announcement?

Does he actually think there are not enough people in Thailand?

Too many job openings?

Did he ever consider the budgetary requirements for expanding school services for in increase in children, along with the "incentive" program?

And he also seems rather contradictory -- he talks about "qualitative" as opposed to "quantitative", while at the same time encouraging more babies. Was this guy drunk when he announced this?

[nakachalet]

I've been here 10 years, spend all my money here and have given Thailand 3 infants who can point out Thailand and the UK on a globe of the world along with several other countries and the continents. They all speak Thai and English and are doing very well in all subjects at school so maybe Thailand should be giving out free non-immigrant visas and forget about the current clauses to getting one for people such as myself who are happy and willing to start a family here with a Thai husband or wife and actually support that family. Nuff said!

lady, my supreme lady....

you have all my utmost repect and adulation, maam.... :jap:

may your children grow up and earn many honors including possibly the premiere, the governor, the senator and much much more.... :jap: :jap: :jap:

[inthepink]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Unfortunately, a very large number of Thai men run away as soon as they learn that their gf/gig or whatever is pregnant. Very many of the mothers have no other choice than sending the children to their own mother and start working in the "entertainment industry". If the grandmother can't or won't take care of the children... those are the kids you see running around in South Pattaya at three in the morning. Call it racist if you want, but it's a fact. The problem exists in western countries as well, but not to the same degree, and in those countries, at least in Europe, there are economic arrangements that protect the mother and child. No such thing here. Go to the maternity wards upcountry or near any of the tourist resorts and ask the young mothers if the bf is still around.

What foreigners can do is to support one or two children like that. The monthly cost isn't much more than a couple of bar visits. It won't solve the problem for Thailand, but it will at least help a child or two to get a mother who is there for them and hopefully some kind of education.

A very large number of Thai men run away and the mothers go to work in the "entertainment industry"??? Do you have any figures to back up your assertion that this happens more often here than in Europe? I seem to recall a very large number of single mothers living in council estates in the UK when I was there.

I think your post (and many others on this thread). says far more about the social circles you move in than it does about Thai people in general. I have been in a maternity ward in Nakhon Sawan and as far as I remember each mother appeared to have a partner in attendance. Try meeting some ordinary Thais instead of basing your opinions on second hand stories from ladies in the "entertainment industry"

Edited July 12, 2010 by inthepink

[Jirapa]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Not necessarily. Western men often have more means to support the family,

and come from a place where family units and early learning are valued higher.

It's not hard to see the differences between local custom and mores

and where you come from and/or have lived.

Well I can only speak as I find and the majority of Western men I have met in Thaiiland are not that well off. Conversely, I know many Thai men who are in a much better position to support their families.

I still think it's an insulting post, borne out of a misplaced feeling of superiority but that's just my personal opinion.

So how many Ferrang do you know living on the average Thai wage? None! As a Ferrang you can't get a visa unless you have a decent annual income or 400000B in your bank so your post is obsurd. Are you aware that most Thai men earn 200B a day? If your using racism as your argument then think again as in the west we welcome a hel_l of a lot more foreign nationals into our community than Thailand ever has as residence isn't solely linked to income!

[Beetlejuice]

This seems like a wonder idea and 100% back it.

If any Thai girls are looking for a stud to sire them some kids, please contact me any place, anytime, anywhere.

[GarryP]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Not necessarily. Western men often have more means to support the family,

and come from a place where family units and early learning are valued higher.

It's not hard to see the differences between local custom and mores

and where you come from and/or have lived.

Well I can only speak as I find and the majority of Western men I have met in Thaiiland are not that well off. Conversely, I know many Thai men who are in a much better position to support their families.

I still think it's an insulting post, borne out of a misplaced feeling of superiority but that's just my personal opinion.

Defintely a lot of superiority complexes here. I too know many well off Thai men, however, they are not average Thai men. If we were to compare the average Thai man with the average foreigner living in Thailand, monetarily speaking I believe that the foreigner would be much more well off than the average Thai man. I do not believe there can be any argument there. But having money and being a good father are two very different things. I think you will find that there are a good number of plonkers in this regard on both sides of the nationality equation. I do not believe in making a judgement purely on the merits of being a foreigner. There is also the matter of the mothers, some of them are just not suitable mother material and do more damage than good in rearing their children.

However, I believe that overall people no matter whether rich or poor, educated or uneducated, would try their best, or what they perceive as their best, to raise their children as good people. It is just that what some people consider good parenting others may consider bad parenting. For example, I believe in corporal punishment, others do not. Does that make me a bad parent and them good and that my children will grow up as damaged goods? Those supporting coporal punishment will say no while the others will scream child abuse. Different strokes for different folks.

[kissdani]

Statistics would tell you that kids of farangs in Thailand has better starting point that what the kids from the same mother would have been given if they came from a thai man.

Pure economics.

Pure economics? I thought farangs at TVF only mate with woman from good and well respected families, who don't need farang money.

I don't think that white daddies who bought their love (economics factor) think of their children as the guarantee and the way to get an easy visa (economics factor) and consider themselves superior to Thai men will be better daddies. The opposite, it is more like the worst you can get, pathetic idiots, nothing more.

[inthepink]

<BR>And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting

Not at all....You're the one that bought up "racism", I belive he is merely suggesting that farang, generally, bring up children better in Thailand than many locals.....case in point...the "Look Kungs" on TV soaps and in the movies! Even Thai ladies are of the opinion that 50/50's have a better start in life!

Yes I know exaclty what he is suggesting and the fact that he compares the cost of bringing up a child to a couple of visits to a bar speaks volumes to me and totally negates any point he may have been trying to make. if you think the fact that mixed breed kids are popular on TV is an indication of how well Westerners bring their kids up then you must be off your rocker.

[Jirapa]

I've been here 10 years, spend all my money here and have given Thailand 3 infants who can point out Thailand and the UK on a globe of the world along with several other countries and the continents. They all speak Thai and English and are doing very well in all subjects at school so maybe Thailand should be giving out free non-immigrant visas and forget about the current clauses to getting one for people such as myself who are happy and willing to start a family here with a Thai husband or wife and actually support that family. Nuff said!

lady, my supreme lady....

you have all my utmost repect and adulation, maam.... :jap:

may your children grow up and earn many honors including possibly the premiere, the governor, the senator and much much more.... :jap: :jap: :jap:

If my kids start dabbling in Thai politics they're on their own!

[inthepink]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Not necessarily. Western men often have more means to support the family,

and come from a place where family units and early learning are valued higher.

It's not hard to see the differences between local custom and mores

and where you come from and/or have lived.

Well I can only speak as I find and the majority of Western men I have met in Thaiiland are not that well off. Conversely, I know many Thai men who are in a much better position to support their families.

I still think it's an insulting post, borne out of a misplaced feeling of superiority but that's just my personal opinion.

So how many Ferrang do you know living on the average Thai wage? None! As a Ferrang you can't get a visa unless you have a decent annual income or 400000B in your bank so your post is obsurd. Are you aware that most Thai men earn 200B a day? If your using racism as your argument then think again as in the west we welcome a hel_l of a lot more foreign nationals into our community than Thailand ever has as residence isn't solely linked to income!

Most of the Thais I know earn monthly salaries of 100k + and some far more. I know this isn't the average but the post i was intitially replying to was an idiotic generalisation - I am merely pointing out that there are many wealthy Thais who are in a much better position to bring up children than the average westerner here. I think your post is absurd too if you think the visa regulations effectively rule out a Westerner living here with very little money. Open your eyes.

Many thai men may officially earn 200b a day but after spending a year living in the middle of nowhere I observed that most had other sources of income and as another post mentioned, rich or poor the majority of them were good fathers.

Edited July 12, 2010 by inthepink

[kissdani]

As every farang know a Thais first love is money NOT their families

Your are just a stupid Farang.

just who do you call.... stupid.... man?

exactly which farang do you call stupid....?

I am calling johncat1 a stupid Farang, because he is stereotyping and insulting Thai people.

The phrase' As every farang' know sounds also kinda stupid to me, because i doubt that every Farang think that way as he claims.

[grapetable]

the Thai have a wonderful way with English....

They could start by educating their University lecturers....that would be a 'qualitative' improvement

[jobsworth]

Does this thread have anything to do with the defacing of baht buses

in Pattaya by an NGO group with stickers stating

"Say No to Violence to Women"?

[moe666]

<BR>Just change / improve / upgrade the schools and the school curriculum and employ qualified teachers and this should lead to "qualitative children". It really is that easy. <BR>GIGO = garbage in, garbage out...<IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt=:jap: src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/jap.gif"><BR>

<BR><BR><BR>You still need people interested in a good education.

[Bananaman]

The planet struggling desperately to sustain the 6.6 billion inhabitants it already has and Thailand see the decline of its own birth rate as a bad thing? What kind of twisted, &lt;deleted&gt; up logic is that then?

[TAWP]

Statistics would tell you that kids of farangs in Thailand has better starting point that what the kids from the same mother would have been given if they came from a thai man.

Pure economics.

Pure economics? I thought farangs at TVF only mate with woman from good and well respected families, who don't need farang money.

I don't think that white daddies who bought their love (economics factor) think of their children as the guarantee and the way to get an easy visa (economics factor) and consider themselves superior to Thai men will be better daddies. The opposite, it is more like the worst you can get, pathetic idiots, nothing more.

So what you are saying is that you suffer from a complex and can provide no data or facts to back up your claims or outbursts?

Carry on.

[kissdani]

Statistics would tell you that kids of farangs in Thailand has better starting point that what the kids from the same mother would have been given if they came from a thai man.

Pure economics.

Pure economics? I thought farangs at TVF only mate with woman from good and well respected families, who don't need farang money.

I don't think that white daddies who bought their love (economics factor) think of their children as the guarantee and the way to get an easy visa (economics factor) and consider themselves superior to Thai men will be better daddies. The opposite, it is more like the worst you can get, pathetic idiots, nothing more.

So what you are saying is that you suffer from a complex and can provide no data or facts to back up your claims or outbursts?

Carry on.

You start with the word 'Statistics'. So where is your data?

[moe666]

What was actually said will remain a mystery unless someone can get hold of the original Thai statement.

Very true. The whole article seems poorly translated. E.g. 'qualitative rather than quantitative children' yet the remainder of the article seems to stress quantity over quality. 'Here's a tax break and more support - just have some kids, please!' The sad part is incentives will likely increase the birth rate of the poorer classes. The recent college grad trying to get her career started is unlikely to think it worthwhile to get herself knocked up for a temporary incentive. (I know a young lady who hides the fact she has a child from potential employers because she believes it lowers her chances of being hired. I don't know if it's true, but I believe it.) So, along with tax breaks and incentives, they should look at the consequences of encouraging the uneducated and welfare classes to produce more children.

But that's just my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it.

Yes I have met many young Thai ladies who lie about the number of children they have. Set down in bar, order beer, young lady sets next to you, were you from, US, were you from, Issan, how long you work bar, 3 months, how come you work bar, take care of mama, how old you, me 25, how many baby you have, no have baby, You lie every girl from Issan have at least one baby, ok I have 2 baby, why you lie about baby, I tell you 2 baby you no bar fine me ok.

[atyclb]

Definitely optimal prenatal care a MUST. Mother should not drink or smoke or do drugs while pregnant along with other basic concepts (google it)<br><br>Easy for Thai academics to say stuff like this and although it very well may be true, it will take government funded programs to accomplish these goals. Quality education for all is part of it. <br><br>I don't believe the academics statements are in a "improve the race via genetics" way ie; Third Reich.<br><br><b><font color="#ff0000"><br> "different definitely" not Daddy material"   </font></b>   You are very very polite, to say the least 555<br><br>

<br>

<br>Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child<br><br><br>Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them<br>

<br><br>Not sure I can agree with that point of view. There is a lot of good foreigners living with and married to Thai women. But there is also a lot that are let us say "different definitely" not Daddy material.<br><br>The part I liked was the part about the government telling Mommy and Daddy how to raise there kids. Maybe they should try to give qualitative schooling to the kids for free and see what happens.<br><br>The translation might have been a bit inaccurate but I doubt it I am fairly sure that it was more than one translator doing the work. I could be wrong but I doubt it.<br>

<br><br><br>

[stao]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

Amen... I'll vote for you for whatever office you want :jap:

[TAWP]

You start with the word 'Statistics'. So where is your data?

You are saying that the assertion that if one take the average thai woman that marries a foreigner and compare their previous partners or partners of other thai women in the same income and education bracket and compare those partners to the foreign partners they end up with, that there isn't a clear economical slant towards the foreigner?

[bangon04]

The planet struggling desperately to sustain the 6.6 billion inhabitants it already has and Thailand see the decline of its own birth rate as a bad thing? What kind of twisted, &lt;deleted&gt; up logic is that then?

Well if one country like Thailand chooses to limit its birthrate while other poorer countries in the region are still overproducing their populations, the demographic result in the medium term could be replacing their own citizens with immigrants. (Take a look at some Scandinavian countries.)

One way to reduce the effect is to maintain strict immigration controls, and Thailand sees itself (at least officially) as Thailand for the Thais. Restricting immigration to well-qualified (however you wish to define this) immigrants will ease the nationalistic grief. However the reality is already very different - Thailand imports lots of cheap foreign labour to do low-paid work already, but maintains the illusion of control.

Surely if the population is distilled into a smaller, richer and more productive number, then technology and improvements in efficiency must take up the slack. But people will still need cheap maids, drivers, security guards, soldiers etc. So where will they come from if Thais no longer want to work for slave labour?

Therefore subsistence farming (sorry i meant to write sufficiency economy) remains a cornerstone of Thai culture. And its lucky that so many poor Thai women are so expert in bringing children into the world.

[vallapawilliam]

Instead of the Thai government providing incentives for women to produce " Quality" children, wouldn't it be better to provide good parenting classes for young mothers, or young parents in Thailand. Also, the focus

could be on providing supports for parents in needs, or elderly grand-parents who may have to care for their grand-children while parents are away at work.

Sex education could also be offered in school with appropriate age children. Most pre-teen or teenage children in Thailand don't talk to their parents about sex or its consequences. It's the taboo here. Unfortunately,

many unwanted pregnancies happen, so the burdens are placed upon the young mothers and their families.

Let's invest in young children who will some day lead our country, and may even care for us in our old age.

[yesdavy]

<BR>This report doesn't make sense : it amounts to " there's a decline in birth rate, so let's make less children"  <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/crazy.gif"><BR>

<BR><BR>Of course, political power is quantitative, not qualitative.  The Catholic church understands it, and Muslims understand it, and, while the rural red shirt folk may not understand it, if their birth rate is higher than the urban elite class, certainly the elite strategists would understand it.  <BR><BR>"Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent."  [Excerpted from <A href="http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2003/03middleeast_taspinar.aspx">http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2003/03middleeast_taspinar.aspx</A>]<BR><BR>".....virtually every Western or Westernized nation on the planet is slowly dying off because birth rates have fallen below the 2.1-child-per-woman replacement level."  [Excerpted from <A href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1780026/posts">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1780026/posts</A>]<BR><BR>