Khon Farang, Khon Kaek?

[thomo]

I've noticed that Thais generally only refer to Asians as people (khon) and not Caucasians or Indians. Why? Most blacks are referred to as Khon Africa, which appears okay, if not slightly ignorant, but Khon Europe would appear nicer than just farang without any khon in front of it.

Why are we not referred to as people?

[Chunky1]

Thai-Indians (Sihks) are well respected in Thailand. They are called by their Thai name.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Chunky1

[Kilgore Trout]

In my experience "khaek" (which I often hear) or sometimes "khon khaek" is used as a derogatory term for indians and arabs. The real meaning of the word is "visitor" you may hear staff in an empty resturaunt say "mai mee khaek" meaning there are no customers but when using it to refer to the above mentioned peoples it is not very nice and I would attempt to argue that most people would put them on a level lower than "falang" whether or not the word "khon" accompanies it or not. I have even seen Thais hold their noses when Indians or Arabs are nearby.

[thaifkrlim]

because only the french fought the thais and thais thought that french were evil, and anybody who look like french were french, thus everyone who look evil were called french

[inthepink]

I would say that the word farang is analogous to foreigner in English. You could say foreign person but usually we don't. Incidentally English could be construed as being ruder than Thai. Why do we say an Englishman and a Frenchman but an Italian and a Greek? Does that mean we don't consider Italians and Greeks to be people?

I think you're reading too much into it and trying to take offence at an innocuous term. It isn't only Asians that have the classifier Khon used with their nationality anyway, haven't you heard Khon Angrit before?

As for Khon Europe, how are they supposed to know that you are European and not American, Canadian or Australian if they don't know you personally?

Edited July 15, 2010 by inthepink

[bifftastic]

Yes, that puzzled me too, I was in Ban sob Ruak, by the golden triangle, with my Thai g/f and we were discussing why it was 500 baht for me to cross over into Myanmar to go to the casino and 50 baht for her.

I said 'Khon Thai ha sib baht Khon falang ha loi baht, tammai?' everyone, including the g/f, laughed at the 'khon falang' bit.

Cue one very pissed off 'khon falang' and no 500 baht.

She couldn't explain it to me but when it comes to nations, like 'khon angrit' it's not an issue.

In English you'd say Thai people, Asian people, African people etc. etc. but you can also say Thais, Asians, Africans.

Dunno, maybe one of the Thai language experts can give us an explanation?

[moe666]

Yes, that puzzled me too, I was in Ban sob Ruak, by the golden triangle, with my Thai g/f and we were discussing why it was 500 baht for me to cross over into Myanmar to go to the casino and 50 baht for her.

I said 'Khon Thai ha sib baht Khon falang ha loi baht, tammai?' everyone, including the g/f, laughed at the 'khon falang' bit.

Cue one very pissed off 'khon falang' and no 500 baht.

She couldn't explain it to me but when it comes to nations, like 'khon angrit' it's not an issue.

In English you'd say Thai people, Asian people, African people etc. etc. but you can also say Thais, Asians, Africans.

Dunno, maybe one of the Thai language experts can give us an explanation?

How about the Thais donot like the Burmese, or Cambodians very much either. And the Indians in Thailand are not much better than dogs. So nothing new here move on.

[bifftastic]

I would say that the word farang is analogous to foreigner in English. You could say foreign person but usually we don't. Incidentally English could be construed as being ruder than Thai. Why do we say an Englishman and a Frenchman but an Italian and a Greek? Does that mean we don't consider Italians and Greeks to be people?

I think you're reading too much into it and trying to take offence at an innocuous term. It isn't only Asians that have the classifier Khon used with their nationality anyway, haven't you heard Khon Angrit before?

As for Khon Europe, how are they supposed to know that you are European and not American, Canadian or Australian if they don't know you personally?

good point, I hadn't thought of it like that, thanks

[thomo]

In my experience "khaek" (which I often hear) or sometimes "khon khaek" is used as a derogatory term for indians and arabs.

Believe Khaek means 'guest'.

I used to get the bus up and down Silom. At the stop outside Wat Mariamman (an Indian temple), the conductors always say 'Wat Khek, Wat Khaek'. Yet outside a Chinese temple they always say 'Wat Khon Jin'.

Why are the Indians not referred to as people, but other Asians are.

Edited July 16, 2010 by thomo

[steelepulse]

Khaek and keck mean two different things even though they sound similar. One is a customer, while the other refers to those that look like Arabs, Indians etc.

[Naam]

How about the Thais donot like the Burmese, or Cambodians very much either. And the Indians in Thailand are not much better than dogs. So nothing new here move on.

in any country where foreign ethnic groups are economically above average successful (because they work harder than the locals) they are considered "dogs". fact is that the locals bark, the dogs smile and... cash in.

[thomo]

in any country where foreign ethnic groups are economically above average successful (because they work harder than the locals) they are considered "dogs". fact is that the locals bark, the dogs smile and... cash in.

Nonsense.

Look at Chinatown.

Or the Japanese on mid-Sukhumvit.

Both of these ethnic groups are as you described yet both are looked up to, and almost revered by the Thais.

If a Thai woman was able to snag a Chinese or Japanese husband here, the fact would almost certainly be brought up by her parents at every possible opportunity.

Edited July 16, 2010 by thomo

[CanInBKK]

Thai-Indians (Sihks) are well respected in Thailand. They are called by their Thai name.

Really? Then why do they have a saying that "if you see a snake and an indian, hit [incapacitate] the indian first"? Essentially the meaning is that they feel indians are even more venomous than snakes and should be taken care of first.

I'd agree with the last few posters before me and say that Thais can have a somewhat negative view of indians NOT at all based on economic factors.

[Jingthing]

Farang is not used by Thais as foreigner. It means WHITEY. It really isn't very polite. Get used to it. Next ...

[barky]

in any country where foreign ethnic groups are economically above average successful (because they work harder than the locals) they are considered "dogs". fact is that the locals bark, the dogs smile and... cash in.

Nonsense.

Look at Chinatown.

Or the Japanese on mid-Sukhumvit.

Both of these ethnic groups are as you described yet both are looked up to, and almost revered by the Thais.

If a Thai woman was able to snag a Chinese or Japanese husband here, the fact would almost certainly be brought up by her parents at every possible opportunity.

I agree. All Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are looked upon as Gods and afforded the utmost respect and referred to as Kon Jean, Look Kha poochai, pooying etc etc. Yet in every situation, westeners are always referred to as the ubiquitous farang/falang. Farangs are never seen as nor referred to as customers, people, man, woman, boy, girl , they are just farang. Even right in front of you all Thais when speaking to each other will refer to you , the westener, as the farang . It's just plain rude and ignorant and hypocrytical.

[Loz]

Khon Dang Chart means foriegner in "polite" Thai

Chow Dang Chart is the plural of the above

Anything else ranges from "informal" to "plain rude" BY WESTERN STANDARDS

but when a race of people don't think letting a door slam in your face is rude, how can you expect the cultural sensitivity required not to use words like farang? Also, have you notice how Thais in general and certianly in groups, are not adept at adapting to change quickly. So don't expect to be respected anytime soon.

Next...

[Tokay]

I have even seen Thais hold their noses when Indians or Arabs are nearby.

I don't know if any of you remember, but in Pattaya just a few years ago, there were signs in MANY of the restaurant and bars that said things like, NO ARAB TO SIT HERE.

Now they are advertising all across the middle east and welcome them.

Funny how things change just over the course of 4 - 5 years.

[inthepink]

Farang is not used by Thais as foreigner. It means WHITEY. It really isn't very polite. Get used to it. Next ...

I didn't say the meaning was exactly the same, I said the useage was similar (i.e. the lack of a classifier). If you're the type of person who goes looking for reasons to be offended then you will find them everywhere.

[Chunky1]

Thai-Indians (Sihks) are well respected in Thailand. They are called by their Thai name.

Really? Then why do they have a saying that "if you see a snake and an indian, hit [incapacitate] the indian first"? Essentially the meaning is that they feel indians are even more venomous than snakes and should be taken care of first.

I'd agree with the last few posters before me and say that Thais can have a somewhat negative view of indians NOT at all based on economic factors.

Since Thai-Indians own much of Sukhumwit road, try knocking on random condominiums and ask to speak to the owner.

[Naam]

in any country where foreign ethnic groups are economically above average successful (because they work harder than the locals) they are considered "dogs". fact is that the locals bark, the dogs smile and... cash in.

Nonsense. Look at Chinatown. Or the Japanese on mid-Sukhumvit. Both of these ethnic groups are as you described yet both are looked up to, and almost revered by the Thais. If a Thai woman was able to snag a Chinese or Japanese husband here, the fact would almost certainly be brought up by her parents at every possible opportunity.

your claim is nonsense. how many of the 60+ million Thais did you ask what they think about which ethnic group and which one they revere?

[Naam]

inthepink, on 2010-07-15 19:16, said:

I would say that the word farang is analogous to foreigner in English. You could say foreign person but usually we don't. Incidentally English could be construed as being ruder than Thai. Why do we say an Englishman and a Frenchman but an Italian and a Greek? Does that mean we don't consider Italians and Greeks to be people?

good to know that i am referred to in a polite way... i am a German.

by the way, in my [not so] humble opinion i conclude that all the threads and the complaints that Thais call us westerners "Farangs" originate from insecure persons who possess a wealth of inferiority complexes and/or are whingers and whiners. personally i give a flying fart what names a Thai or any other person calls me. that of course does not apply to our staff which calls me "Sir" but perhaps in their heart of hearts they think that my appropriate name should be "winer"

[naidraw66]

Farang is not used by Thais as foreigner. It means WHITEY. It really isn't very polite. Get used to it. Next ...

And in a country where a majority of its citizens wish to be White that's not a bad thing. You could even take it as a compliment . . . . .!

[thomo]

in any country where foreign ethnic groups are economically above average successful (because they work harder than the locals) they are considered "dogs". fact is that the locals bark, the dogs smile and... cash in.

Nonsense. Look at Chinatown. Or the Japanese on mid-Sukhumvit. Both of these ethnic groups are as you described yet both are looked up to, and almost revered by the Thais. If a Thai woman was able to snag a Chinese or Japanese husband here, the fact would almost certainly be brought up by her parents at every possible opportunity.

your claim is nonsense.

If you think that Thais consider successful Chinese, Japanese and Koreans living here as dogs... well... this is the only emoticon fitting of your opinion:

Edited July 16, 2010 by thomo

[inthepink]

inthepink, on 2010-07-15 19:16, said:

I would say that the word farang is analogous to foreigner in English. You could say foreign person but usually we don't. Incidentally English could be construed as being ruder than Thai. Why do we say an Englishman and a Frenchman but an Italian and a Greek? Does that mean we don't consider Italians and Greeks to be people?

good to know that i am referred to in a polite way... i am a German.

by the way, in my [not so] humble opinion i conclude that all the threads and the complaints that Thais call us westerners "Farangs" originate from insecure persons who possess a wealth of inferiority complexes and/or are whingers and whiners. personally i give a flying fart what names a Thai or any other person calls me. that of course does not apply to our staff which calls me "Sir" but perhaps in their heart of hearts they think that my appropriate name should be "winer"

I agree with you but I would also add that they cannot adjust to the fact that they are a racial minority in this country and that everything does not revolve around them.

[CanInBKK]

Thai-Indians (Sihks) are well respected in Thailand. They are called by their Thai name.

Really? Then why do they have a saying that "if you see a snake and an indian, hit [incapacitate] the indian first"? Essentially the meaning is that they feel indians are even more venomous than snakes and should be taken care of first.

I'd agree with the last few posters before me and say that Thais can have a somewhat negative view of indians NOT at all based on economic factors.

Since Thai-Indians own much of Sukhumwit road, try knocking on random condominiums and ask to speak to the owner.

Do you have any idea how unfounded your last post is? To say that a road which stretches from the Chalerm Mahanakorn expressway (Bamrungrad Hospital area) to way beyond Bang-na (arguably even past Rayong) belongs in large part to indians just holds no water. Even if you meant Sukhumvit up to Thong Lor, I'd still have to say that the area is so diverse to use "much of Sukhumvit" would be an exaggeration.

Back to your original point, even if indians own a number of condos, this goes nowhere to provethey are "well respected" by Thais above other races.

[ozzieovaseas]

Sorry, but i will never really get why anyone is offended by the term farang.. :blink:

Really, Its got me beat

If there is something added to the end of Farang..ie..farang kee nok..then OK be offended

Should an Asian or Japanese or whatever nationality be offended if they are referred to as a "forieghner" whilest in a western country???

I think they would be happy to be referred to as this, considering the alternatives that are often offered them

But i suppose this is Thaivisa and there will soon be someone come along and be offended at my spelling of the word

[ozzieovaseas]

Oh, and just to make another point to the OP...

When in the company of Thais and going to a restaurant and hearing them say "sarm khon" or "see khon"...as to whether they will need a table to seat 3 or 4...be they Thai or not, the use of the word need not be considered with so much scrutiny

[thomo]

Sorry, but i will never really get why anyone is offended by the term farang..

And another poster doesn't understand the thread.

When in the company of Thais and going to a restaurant and hearing them say "sarm khon" or "see khon"...as to whether they will need a table to seat 3 or 4...be they Thai or not, the use of the word need not be considered with so much scrutiny

I'd certainly inquire as to why they said 'sarm khon'.

Edited July 16, 2010 by thomo

[Kilgore Trout]

Sorry, but i will never really get why anyone is offended by the term farang.. :blink:

Really, Its got me beat

If there is something added to the end of Farang..ie..farang kee nok..then OK be offended

Should an Asian or Japanese or whatever nationality be offended if they are referred to as a "forieghner" whilest in a western country???

I think they would be happy to be referred to as this, considering the alternatives that are often offered them

But i suppose this is Thaivisa and there will soon be someone come along and be offended at my spelling of the word

How many times must we go over this; "farang" does not mean "foreigner" by any stretch of the imagination, Thais only say it does because even they know how bad the term sounds and is used.

Case in point; you will never ever never hear ANY person of Asian descent be referred to as "falang" regardless of what nationality they hold, nor peoples of African descent etc. It is reserved only for people of one race. For this reason, by definition, "falang" does not, never has, and never will be synonomous with "foreigner." There are other words for "foreigner" as others on this thread have pointed out; i.e. khon tang chart/chow tang chart.

[thomo]

And another poster doesn't understand the thread.

And another one. ^