Car Oil Filter For Big Bike?

[Cobrabiker]

I have done some searches on oil filters, and am interested in this filter with excellent filtration capabilities, Purolator Pure One PL14610 oil filter here, it is highly recommended by some of the bike forums and also http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters

the problem is, it is for car that requires higher oil pump pressure, its website even stated "If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter."

I am riding a 1000cc FZ1, its idle oil pump pressure is at 6.4 psi, but this filter has a open valve psi of 14 to 18, psi not quite sure what it means, but I guess I need at least 14 to 18 psi to push the engine oil through the filter. Does this mean that when I am at low rpm, the oil will bypass the filter, and was wondering at what kind of rpm will the filter start to work? Many big bikes' owners have used it without any problem, so does it mean it is safe on bikes? They have a filter for bike too, but filteration not as good, so I really appreciate some technical experts to advice on this.

[thaicbr]

Cobra.. is that open valve or bypass valve. most if not all have a bypass valve to ensure flow at high pressures. Why don't you stick with K&N filters they are better flow AND made for bikes.

Also if the people that make it say NOT FOR BIKES I would tend to listen. (being an American company they may be fixated with HD though)

[Cobrabiker]

Hi thaicbr, according to their web, it is open valve, what does it mean anyway? Well this is an oversized filter, could not find anything cheaper and bigger and better, this is an upsized filter. Too many people are using it, so I am checking this out.

This is my oil pump specs:

Oil Pump

Oil pump type Trochoidal

Inner-rotor-to-outer-rotor-tip clearance 0.09 - 0.15 mm (0.004 - 0.006 in)

Outer-rotor-to-oil-pump-housing clearance 0.03 - 0.08 mm (0.001 - 0.003 in)

Bypass valve opening pressure 180 - 220 kPa (1.8 - 2.2 kg/cm2 , 25.6 - 31.3 psi)

Relief valve operating pressure 490 - 570 kPa (71.1 - 82.7 psi)

Oil pressure (hot) 45 kPa @ 1100 rpm (6.5 psi @ 1100 rpm)

Edited July 16, 2010 by Cobrabiker

[thaicbr]

Well this is the spec from the K&n Website concerning the filter for your bike.

Part KN-204 Product Specifications Product Style: Oil Filters

Height: 2.953 in (75 mm)

Outside Diameter: 2.673 in (68 mm)

Thread Inside Diameter: M20 x 1.5

PSI Relief Valve: 14.5

Anti Drain Back Valve: Yes

Style: Canister

Bypass Valve: Yes

Weight: 0.5 lb (0.2 kg)

Purolater specs look similar other than the purolater being 12-14mm longer (will that be a problem) oh and the gangky yellow colour

Edited July 16, 2010 by thaicbr

[dave_boo]

I'll second what ThaiCBR stated; it's the pressure release valve. Exceeding the manufacturer's specs could cause pretty bad damage to the engine. Imagine why a filter would need a relief valve.....perhaps the filtering mechanism is not allowing oil to flow properly and the pump is steadily pumping. Enough pressure builds up and you get pump damage. Meanwhile if pressure is building up that implies that there's an excess of oil on the side of the filter that is NOT going to the engine; that's just as bad yeah?

[Cobrabiker]

Hi Dave, the Purolator has a bypass valve too, but the main problem is that the motorcycle pump might not have enough pressure to get the oil through fast enough, well the K&N looks good, it is a high flow filter, are they sold in Thailand? Any other good oil filters to recommend?

[BigBikeBKK]

the K&N looks good, it is a high flow filter, are they sold in Thailand? Any other good oil filters to recommend?

No idea why you're messing about with a car filter on a bike...

Buy K&N filters here:

http://www.fastcorner.co.th/thai/product/pro_sub.php?cid=10&cnm=K&N%20Performance%20Filters

[Cobrabiker]

Cobra.. is that open valve or bypass valve

Sorry, it is Relief Valve P.S.I. 14-18, pretty much the same as K&N.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

I know a guy using BMW car filter on MC he found out the hard way, the car filter needed more pressure, thats what he told me anyway.

[katabeachbum]

Hey Crobiker

Kawasakis original oilfilter is only 220 baht in LOS, so I would check if it fits yammy

[Cobrabiker]

Well as I have said this is higly recommended by this site , seems to have better filtrations quality than the k&N, but what worries me is whether my oil pump can cope up with the extra pressure needed, has anyone used it before?

[BigBikeBKK]

Hey Crobiker

Kawasakis original oilfilter is only 220 baht in LOS, so I would check if it fits yammy

Kata- please don't mix up Crobiker with Cobrabiker- two different people and I know Cro would never do something as stupid as installing a car filter on his ZX14

[BigBikeBKK]

Well as I have said this is higly recommended by this site , seems to have better filtrations quality than the k&N, but what worries me is whether my oil pump can cope up with the extra pressure needed, has anyone used it before?

If I find you a site that recommends you give up all your worldly possessions and join a doomsday cult will you do it?

[Cobrabiker]

Hey Tony, I know that you are an active member in this forum, and as I have said and I had showed the link that it was highly recommended by the website, and also some big bikes' owners had installed this to their bikes, instead of following what others had done, I wanted to know some technical aspect about this issue, to say things like this is an insult. If you don't have some technical details, I appreciate your reading and you need not participate.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Cobrabiker

[BigBikeBKK]

Hey Tony, I know that you are an active member in this forum, and as I have said and I had showed the link that it was highly recommended by the website, and also some big bikes' owners had installed this to their bikes, instead of following what others had done, I wanted to know some technical aspect about this issue, to say things like this is an insult. If you don't have some technical details, I appreciate your reading and you need not participate.

Dave and Allan already explained to you why this is a bad idea and I already showed you in post #7 where you can buy a K&N Oil Filter for your bike. If you insist on ignoring everyone's advice and proceed with a car filter that was not designed for your bike you'll have only yourself to blame when you fry your engine. Good luck!

[BigBikeBKK]

Well as I have said this is higly recommended by this site , seems to have better filtrations quality than the k&N, but what worries me is whether my oil pump can cope up with the extra pressure needed, has anyone used it before?

Took a peek at that link and this is the first thing that I noticed:

"If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter."

Sorry, but where on that site is the use of an automotive filter instead of a motorcycle oil filter "Highly Recommended"? I'm not seeing it...

Edited July 17, 2010 by BigBikeBKK

[Cobrabiker]

Scroll down to the bottom page, on the 5th table you will see this:

These Oil Filters

have 20 x 1.5mm threads,

14 psi by-pass valve,

anti-drain back valve,

2.3" O.D. gasket

2.5" to 3.5" long.

If you have the room, I recommend the longer filters.

Motorcycle Filters.

None are recommended.

* AC Delco PF2135

* AMSOil SMF103

* Carquest 85358

* AC Delco PF2135

* FRAM PH6017A

* Honda 15410-MCJ-000

* K&N KN-204, about $13. Metric nut on end for easy removal.

* NAPA Gold 1358

* Purolator ML16817. Imported, not made by Purolator.

* STP SMO 17

* WIX 51358

Recommended filters.

All have superior

filtering.

About 2.5 inches long.

* Purolator Pure One PL14612, about $6.

* Mobil M1-108, about $12.

Made by Champion.

* Bosch 3300, about $6.

Made by Champion.

* Wal-Mart SuperTech ST6607

Made by Champion.

About 3.25 inches long.

* Purolator Pure One PL14610, about $6.

* Mobil 1 M1-110, about $10.

Made by Champion.

* Bosch 3323, about $6.

Made By Champion.

* WalMart SuperTech ST7317,

about $2. Made by Champion.

Buy these filters

More about oil filters here

Edited July 17, 2010 by Cobrabiker

[Zzinged]

I just had a look at the website. This caught my eye:

Purolator has recently posted this on their web page:

If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter.

My response: 1) I had no idea motorcycles weren't vehicles. I do wish they would inform the DMV, who keeps assessing me a motor vehicle tax and requiring me to get motor vehicle insurance. 2) The Purolator ML line of filters is made in China, imported, and rebranded to Purolator. That's your big clue about how much they love you and how carefully they engineer filters for your bike.

If I'm reading that right, the author of the website doesn't agree with the manufacturer's advice based on the fact that he thinks the ML filters are of poorer quality due to the country of origin. I suppose it's up to you if you want to believe the website author or the oil filter company.

Another thing that caught my attention was this,

I received an email from Suzuki of Victoria, informing me that a Hayabusa they took in for service showed no oil pressure. They found the cause was an aged anti-drainback valve on a Hi-Flo filter that would not open, thus cutting off all oil pressure to the entire engine. K&N filters are made by Hi-Flo, so these filters are also suspect.

I'm surprised at how he made a generalisation about a company based on one incident. Either he knows something we don't but hasn't told us, or he thinks that every company's product should never ever malfunction. Now if there was a trend (Toyota, I'm looking at you) then there is a good reason to suspect a manufacturer's product. Making a condemning judgement based on a single incident (according to what he told us) seems a tad overzealous.

That doesn't mean he doesn't know his stuff, he may well know better than the majority of us, but if I were you I'd conduct wider research into the situation.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Zzinged

[Cobrabiker]

Thanks Zzinged for your input and observation. I wish the author could be more detailed and provide some tecnical data why he thinks that cars' oil filters can be used on bikes, can the filter functions with lower pressure of a bike? After few thousand km, the filter will be partially clogged and will require even higher pressure, it leads me to think that 2 things can happen, the pump stop working, or the pump is still pumping but with very low flow rate which starve the engine of oil, cooked or jammed the engine for the worse case. Does this apply to small cc bikes only? But for big cc bikes,is the pump pressure sufficient? Well, in the mean time I am still doing more searches.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Cobrabiker

[Zzinged]

Have you tried asking Yamaha about this? Or perhaps upgrade to a higher rated pump?

[dave_boo]

Well as I have said this is higly recommended by this site , seems to have better filtrations quality than the k&N, but what worries me is whether my oil pump can cope up with the extra pressure needed, has anyone used it before?

If I find you a site that recommends you give up all your worldly possessions and join a doomsday cult will you do it?

I would IF it allowed me to wack hard headed people.....see the next quote.

Dave and Allan already explained to you why this is a bad idea and I already showed you in post #7 where you can buy a K&N Oil Filter for your bike. If you insist on ignoring everyone's advice and proceed with a car filter that was not designed for your bike you'll have only yourself to blame when you fry your engine. Good luck!

[Cobrabiker]

Not thinking of upgrading the oil pump yet, just want to check if it matches my bike.

I don't see anything wrong to put a car's filter on a motorbike, a tractor, grass cutter, a boat or whatever, provided it matches OEM requirements, like flow rates, oil pressure, etc.

If you do a google search on this filter, you will find that many bikers are using it, and it seems to work well with big bikes, so I am trying to gather more information, or feedback on this filter, if it matches, I will go with it, if not, I have at least learnt something about it. Cheers!

[BigBikeBKK]

I've got a friend with an FZ1 with over 100k km. He's never had any mechanical problems with his engine. Guess what oil filter he uses? Genuine Yamaha.

Ever heard the expression, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Edited July 18, 2010 by BigBikeBKK

[seedy]

Use top quality oil and change it often. Manufacturers oil filter recommendation sufficient.

A high volume oil pump will empty the oil sump if it is not enlarged.

A high pressure pump will overtax o-rings and gaskets.

I guess you could use a roll of toilet paper in a tin can, but why would you.

[Hog Head]

Aside from the armchair experts it seems like I am the only one with any empirical experience. I have been running Purolator Pure 1 filters for years, including Harleys which are known for very low oil pressure at idle. The current HD has 43,000 Km of hard use on a high performance engine running Mobile 1 Delvac (now turbo diesel pickup oil in Thailand) and Pure 1 filters. Coincidentally, this is the very combo recommended by this website.

I can only presume that the not using a car filter in a bike waiver, was written by a lawyer, or industry driven to preserve margins on more expensive "motorcycle" filters. As long as the various engineering parameters are met/equal, then there is no technical difference between a car, tractor, or bike filter.

Saying that you cannot use a car filter in a bike makes as much sense as that you cannot use diesel oil in a car/bike. It is the engineering specs that matter and all else is moot. As long as the specs are met, or exceeded then I do not see why one cannot use it

In the end it is your bike and use what you wish. I will continue to use what I deem is the best product for the application, and experience would seem to suggest that I am on the right track.

[BigBikeBKK]

As long as the various engineering parameters are met/equal, then there is no technical difference between a car, tractor, or bike filter.

Fair enough but I'm still not clear on one point- is HD a tractor or a bike?

[Hog Head]

I knew that line would get a response, and threw it in for fun !!!!

[thaicbr]

Hoghead you use that pucky yellow colour filter on a HD. shame on you, surely it does not match the chrome dingbats

[Hog Head]

Purolator Pure One filters are blue to differentiate it from the run of the mill pukey yellow filters. In fact it goes with my blue bike quite nicely

If one was concerned about colour you could always use a can of Mexican chrome, or in true cruiser fashion a tacky, but no doubt effective, filter cover to accent the dingbats.

[Cobrabiker]

I intend to fill my bike with diesel engine oil too, who ever thinks that is stupid, read this by Shell:

Can heavy-duty diesel oil be used in motorcycles?

Motorcycle gasoline engines may not seem in the same league as the big displacement diesel engine under your hood, but they share some of the same lubrication requirements. So yes, in many cases, a premium heavy-duty universal oil capable of serving both diesel and gasoline engines is the best choice for your bike.

The high power-to-displacement ratio of a motorcycle engine means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in passenger car engines. The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires extreme pressure boundary lubrication. The same can be said about gears in the transmission, which are normally lubricated by engine oil. Oil additives containing phosphorus protect these highly loaded extreme pressure areas (in both gasoline and diesel engines). Because diesel engines have higher loading of components, more of the phosphorus-containing additive is present than in typical passenger car oils. And with advanced catalyst systems for gasoline engines, the phosphorus content has been declining in passenger car oils.

Since many bike engines are air-cooled, and tend to be operated at high power outputs and speeds, their lubricating oil needs to be more resistant to high temperature oxidation. That?s another advantage of a premium universal oil. Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade.

One last thing to consider is whether oil contains friction modifier additives. For improved fuel economy, most passenger car oils have such an additive. But the wet clutch in your bike doesn?t perform right with friction modifiers. Universal engine oils don?t have friction modifiers.

Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 PLUS for diesels, look for API Service Category SL.

Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA? T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge.

Here is the Link

Have an open mind and we can explore new things, don't think like your old grandfather. BTW Hog Head, do you know what is the sufficient oil pump pressure to work the pure one filter?