Is The Need For English Teachers In Los

[westybrook]

I wish to raise this question, as come January my wife may or may not be issued a settlement visa. If shes not I plann to move out to LOS and do a PELT course.

What I don't want to do is get out to LOS and find that its too over hyped

So if there are any teachers on here, both presently teaching or ex that knows the situation at the moment in LOS could you please give a realistic report on a newbie teacher finding work and earning some good money for not only me and my wife, but I have a baby due in October 05 also

Thanks guys for your feedback!

[PeaceBlondie]

I wish to raise this question, as come January my wife may or may not be issued a settlement visa.  If shes not I plann to move out to LOS and do a PELT course.

What I don't want to do is get out to LOS and find that its too over hyped

So if there are any teachers on here, both presently teaching or ex that knows the situation at the moment in LOS could you please give a realistic report on a newbie teacher finding work and earning some good money for not only me and my wife, but I have a baby due in October 05 also

Thanks guys for your feedback!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it would take thousands of words, some of which are right here in this Teacher's forum. A million more are in the other ajarn forum net. We're pretty negative, because internet forums such as these are the only place we can whine, whinge, or let off steam.

It ain't no perfumed paradise to teach in Thailand. The foreign ajarn's life is both over-hyped at times, and far more often under-hyped. You CANNOT support a family on less than 35,000 that most English teachers make. If you've taught in the West, it's very different here. Rampant 'cheating' is accepted. Tests are meaningless. Appearance is far more important than substance. Students don't fail the year, and rarely fail a single course. They're more respectful, but they don't pay attention, and often talk during class.

And they're lovable, and if you really enjoy teaching and can do it well, it's a very rewarding experience. It's not monetarily rewarding, however. You probably won't save a pence. You'll have to take the whole family on an eight-horse motorcycle on some of the most dangerous roads in the world, without decent helmets. Life is cheap and short here. The rule of law often doesn't apply. There aren't many safety nets here, esp. for foreigners.

However, if your wife's family name ends in anything like 'na Ayuttayha' forget everything I've just written. Although she would get a visa if that were the case.

[westybrook]

You can't support a family for less than 35k a month? How do ordinary Thais live then if some are on just 6 or 10k a month?

Thanks for the feedback, and yeah I know its going to be totally different than any other place to teach.

Are students really keen to hit certain targets? I guess I should say is the school looking for a certain percentage pass rate, in say your first term?

[paully]

Peaceblondie's right as to no paradise. It will be near-impossible IMO to support a wife and child here on an average TEFL teacher's salary, unless:

1. You're lucky with a job, the school give you free housing (more than 1 small, non-aircon room) and you can live on street food;

2. Your wife also works and gets a reasonable job;

3. You have savings you're prepared to dip into regularly (not recommended in itself).

It's surviveable for a single teacher here - even one that may give some financial support to a significant other - but not to support and raise a family, unless you get a top job.

How do Thais survive on a low salary? The short answer is: they don't survive only on the salary. There's a whole invisible support network for Thais here which isn't generally available to foreigners. Money changes hands here quicker than most anywhere, family members and firiends exchange it amongst themselves depending on need, favours are given and called in.

The other thing is debt: the spending on credit, loans and credit cards here is alarming, and the banks have been giving away credit cards to Thais (but not to foreigners) far too easily. It's all on the never-never, the interest is just about paid monthly - often with assistance from the family or friends - but not the capital. If the financial 'music' in this musical chairs game ever stops, so that the folding stuff stops being passed around, the entire country will fall down.

Students and targets? The 'target' you're likely to have at most schools is for all - or virtually all - the students to pass whatever test you care to set them. You can't be too rigourous about standards here, I'm afraid. Are they keen? They're keen that you give them a pass, and many are keen that you give them an 'A' grade. But they don't always work for it, or even attend all the classes.

Edited July 3, 2005 by paully

[PeaceBlondie]

You can't support a family for less than 35k a month?  How do ordinary Thais live then if some are on just 6 or 10k a month?

Thanks for the feedback, and yeah I know its going to be totally different than any other place to teach.

Are students really keen to hit certain targets?  I guess I should say is the school looking for a certain percentage pass rate, in say your first term?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I met my boyfriend, he was still living on the miserable plot of ground his father squatted on (illegally) 60 years ago, in a ramshackle bamboo hut. The b/f's been in hotel management for over ten years now. That's what he went back to last month. His sisters have houses, but I didn't see any air conditioners (they're nurses and businesspeople). No cars, just underpowered, under-maintained motorcycles. The b/f earns no more than 6,500 per month after 20 years in the hotel business.

If your wife's about to have a baby, she'll be too busy taking care of the little one unless grandma can do it. Does your wife have a nearly worthless degree from one of those countless easy Thai universities? She might earn 8,000/month.

What kind of visa are you coming on? If you don't have something like 400,000 baht in a Thai bank, how are you going to avoid expensive visa runs?

Do you have a real university education as a teacher? If not, you're looking at 25K to 30K starting salary in Bangkok, 25K outside of Bangkok. Good luck.

Erm, would you happen to be the guy who was posting on the teacher's forum some months back, that you didn't even know if it was your pregnancy from somebody who probably was a professional bed-warmer? Probably not.

[westybrook]

No that wasnt me, I have made various posts on here now, but not that one

Thanks for all the replys anyway!

[Patong Bob]

No that wasnt me, I have made various posts on here now, but not that one

Thanks for all the replys anyway!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lots of jobs in Bangkok and you can make enough to survive as things are cheaper and more plentiful there (western food, thai women etc). The rates of pay are significantly higher in Vietnam, I know someone on $20 per hour. Thai schools do not seem willing to pay a fair price for good teachers yet demand many qualifications. The surrounding countries are far easier and better paid to work in as a teacher.

[Rumpole]

Thai schools do not seem willing to pay a fair price for good teachers yet demand many qualifications.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never have I encountered employers who demand so much, yet offer so very little in return. I am not talking about qualifications here, as most Thai schools will ask for all kinds of certification and experience in their advertisements, but will often settle for a white face and a pulse. Just so long as said white face and pulse is cheap. They will, however, expect you to work like a coolie in return for your pittance. There are some very good reasons why there is a shortage of foreign teachers in Thailand. It is not exclusively due to low salaries.

As other posters have said, you may just about be able to support a wife and family on a teacher's salary, but it will not be much of an existence. Thailand is only really cheap if you are willing to forgo many of the trappings of your Western lifestyle. You will also need to think about how you are going to educate your child when he or she is a bit older. The handful of real, Western-style, international schools will be totally beyond your means as a teacher, and the local education system, both public and private, is absolutely abysmal. You should also take great care that you do not become trapped - resenting your situation in Thailand but without the means or even the air fare to move anywhere else. This scenario is more common than you may imagine, particularly among those with families. If you do decide to take the plunge, make sure you have a backup plan and the wherewithal to carry it out.

Edited July 3, 2005 by Rumpole

[westybrook]

Thanks for the replys guys.

So working in Nam, thats interesting I never thought about that, but if rates are as good as you say wow!

Also how much would you be looking at if you were a qualified teacher but wanted to work some private tutoring also? What would you charge an hour?

[kenkannif]

What kind of qualified teacher? Do a proper course mate, you know it makes sense to.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd agree with most previous posters (I love your quip about a worthless degree from an easy uni, PB!!!). I'd say the most important consideration is your children. If you're really serious about your family and how your children are going to grow up, and your family is not already filthy rich, stay out of Thailand. Most foreigners wouldn't accept their children growing up under the circumstances that the average Thai children do, and an English teacher's salary will make them at best upper-average here.

Another reason that Thais can survive on their low salaries when we foreigners can't seem to do it is economies of scale. If grand'um, grandad, 10 of their children, and 50 of their grand children all live in one large compound more or less, then among them all they'll probably come up with mostly enough money to survive the month, every month. In Bangkok most normal Thais live at least 2-3 to a room (plus or minus lovers and children), even well after college. And they don't get picky about medical care, dentists, food, aircon... the list goes on and on.

"Steven"

[Tyree D.]

y'all are too shocking. I'm closing in on one year teaching at multiple places and I don't have these bad things to say. 25K is more than twice the median family income in Chiang Rai. There are other countries that pay more and have better students but other countries aren't Thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

But Tyree, Steven clarified why it doesn't matter that 25K is twice the median family income in CRai (but probably not 1.5 times in Bangkok). Does everybody in your apartment sleep two to a bed (or on mats on the floor), eat only Thai food, feel lucky if there's a cheap fan, ride only cheap motorcycles? Are you on the 30-baht medical scheme, which is a travesty? The easiest trap is to compare ourselves with Thais who live on the economy. We don't live on that economy.

Had a visitor this week, who was totally incredulous that one person lived alone in 77 square meters. He's used to sleeping four people to a small room. Do you live in a bamboo hut with no running water, with Thai 'toilets'? No, thanks. We're trying to point out a few realities to the original poster before he makes a big mistake. But we may be wrong.

[Ijustwannateach]

Divide that 25K by you, your wife, and the 2 children plus one in-law you'll eventually be forced by guilt to support. That makes 5K per person. If you all agree to live together (and won't that be fun!) in one 10K bedsit, that gives you a budget of 3K per person per month for food and everything else. Got the picture?

"Steven"

[Rumpole]

I'm closing in on one year teaching at multiple places and I don't have these bad things to say.  25K is more than twice the median family income in Chiang Rai. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many hours per week are you working for your 25k, and are you supporting a wife and child? I also presume you don't have a work permit since you state you are teaching at "multiple places". This means frequent and fairly costly visa runs (costly in proportion to 25K a month), and does nothing for one's sense of stability and security.

Edited July 4, 2005 by Rumpole

[westybrook]

First off Im not living in Thailand right now. Im in the UK. Im in a job that pays 180 a week net (pounds) Im living with my parents, my wife is to come over in Jan 06 but will need a job, if she doesnt its gonna be hard to support a wife and child on 180 a week in England. My parents dont want me there forever as Im sure you can understand. Don't get me wrong they love me and my wife, but its unfair we stay there cause its more convenient for us. So they want us to make it on out own.

So Im thinking whats best for us. Im thinking the worst here, and that she doesnt get a job for a long time. 180 a week, is not a lot, when we have to find out own place, and support my wife, as she wont be able to claim benifits.

So is living in Thailand for 400 a month better off.

At the minute Im thinking it will.

It all depends on lifestyle. If your the person that likes to eat prime ground beef each night and imported beer then 25k or 30k will be a struggle. But if your out there to support a small famly and improve your teaching and so improving your salary then LOS could be better off.

Whats your opinion, and please think about lifestyle, mine may not be like yours and so my disposable income completly different.

[Ijustwannateach]

A refreshingly honest post...

I don't know what to tell you. Obviously times are not so good in the so-called "developed world." If you don't have many prospects there, maybe Thailand would be a better place for you, at least for awhile. However, please be aware that things are "tightening up" around here, and what may be possible now based on your current CV may not last. If you are obligated to children too quickly your options in life may be pretty limited. Be careful.

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

How are things 'tightening' up mate? Have you heard something I ain't?

[spencer]

“How many hours per week are you working for your 25k, and are you supporting a wife and child? I also presume you don't have a work permit since you state you are teaching at "multiple places". This means frequent and fairly costly visa runs (costly in proportion to 25K a month), and does nothing for one's sense of stability and security.”

Why are the visa runs expensive from Chiang Rai???? He can take a bus from Chiang Rai to Mae Sai for next to nothing and then pay 250 baht at the border come back and all is finished. I know people that have been here on a tourist visa for over 2 years and they go to border this way every month with no problem. As a matter of fact I took one such person with me on my visa run. He went through Thai immigration with no problem whatsoever and I got the third degree. I have a legal multiple entry business visa and he has a 30 day transit visa that he has been doing for 2 years. It doesn’t make much sense to me.

As for living on 25,000 baht per month it is easy in Chiang Mai and I assume Chiang Rai also. I rented a 100 square meter 2 story house in a Moo Baan that was less the 1 kilo from the market for 3,000 baht per month.

Electricity with fans, refrigerator, 2 TV’s with accessories, hot water heater, microwave etc cost me about 500 baht per month. Telephone about the same because of my wife using it to call her sister’s mobile phone and my internet calls.

I figured out that I spend approx 10,000 baht per month on food for my wife, 2 children, and myself. That includes the western food that I feel I can not do without for very long such as mustard, mayonnaise, ranch dressing, spaghetti etc. Face it, rice is really cheap. Vegetables are around 10 baht per kilo. Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast is only 62 baht per kilo. Pork Loin is only 90 baht per kilo. Sure if you want to eat every thing that is imported it is going to cost you a fortune but food bought locally and cooked in your own kitchen is cheap.

I figure my expenses with gasoline for visiting the mother in law in the mountains runs about 20,000 per month.

[Rumpole]

Why are the visa runs expensive from Chiang Rai????  He can take a bus from Chiang Rai to Mae Sai for next to nothing and then pay 250 baht at the border come back and all is finished. I know people that have been here on a tourist visa for over 2 years and they go to border this way every month with no problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This assumes, of course that the OP will be based in the North. Border runs from Bangkok and the central and Isaan regions are quite a bit more expensive. What about loss of earnings? Thai schools won't usually pay for time spent on visa runs. Some of them can even get quite stroppy about a teacher taking time off to get the visa, even though they refuse to provide a work permit. Of course, it won't be the Thai school owner or administrator who is incarcerated in the IDC!!

The "novelty" of doing border runs every month wears off pretty quickly and soon becomes tedious and disruptive. And when this government eventually gets around to clamping down on persistent border runners, as they keep threatening to do ....................? Why on earth would anyone want to work as an illegal immigrant for 25K a month unless they really had no other options?

Edited July 5, 2005 by Rumpole

[Thaiboxer]

A lot of interesting points raised on this thread. If you have some qualifications (BA/BS, TEFL, experience, etc) it's often just a matter of picking and choosing what school you'll work for and with such a demand for teachers these days, you should have no problem finding a decent job and some private students. Good luck!

Edited July 5, 2005 by Thaiboxer

[Ijustwannateach]

How are things 'tightening' up mate? Have you heard something I ain't?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing specific, just general pressures I seem to sense over the last year or two that at the middle to high end, schools are dissatisfied with the overall quality of their staff and would like to push the bar up a bit, that's all. Plus the continuing squeeze by the government on proper paperwork. Maybe's that's most of where my gut feeling is coming from, actually.

"Steven"

[westybrook]

Thanks for all your replys, and Spencer I liked your family experience about spending. I think you are similar to how I would be in LOS.

[spencer]

Thanks for all your replys, and Spencer I liked your family experience about spending.  I think you are similar to how I would be in LOS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks westybrook. I know a few westerners here in Chiang Mai that try to tell me that it is just as expensive to live here than it is in there home country. For them it is because they have to buy many of the same foods that they ate at home. They fail to realise that the foods they are used to are imported foods. Try living on mostly imported foods in the USA and see how expensive it is. Also these guys spend a good deal of time in western style restaurants and at the bars. A life style like that in the USA would cost a great deal more than it does here. Also they refuse to admit that they can live quite well on locally grown food.

Listen I am from Montana. I bought 80 acres for US$200 per acre so I feel that land here is really expensive but the cost of building a house compared to where I am from is really cheap. Beef in Montana was pretty cheap (i have not been home for 5 years so I do not know what it cost today). Beef here is pretty expensive and does not taste as good. Pretty much every other locally grown food is less expensive than at home. Beer is about double of what I used to pay at home. Yes even Chang Beer. Whiskey is much less expensive here than at home. I live 20 kilos from Chiang Mai and I almost never go into town unless it is for business.

Rumpole:

My post about visa runs from Chiang Rai was a response to your response to Tyree that said they are living in Chiang Rai. It was just to illustrate that if you wanted to live on the cheap it was easy and Tyree is proof of that. Personaly I ahte bangkok and could never live there. If that is the place you want to live then you have to pay more than the rest of us that live upcountry. I am pretty sure that there is a visa run bus that goes from Bangkok to cambodia and that could be taken on the weekends so no work would be missed.

[kenkannif]

^ Yep I knew/know a bloke that lived on like just over 60K A YEAR! It's doable for sure.

[Rumpole]

I am pretty sure that there is a visa run bus that goes from Bangkok to cambodia and that could be taken on the weekends so no work would be missed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lots of places require you you to work at weekends. Anyway, who wants to schlep all the way to Poipet and back on your one day off per week.

[Rumpole]

^ Yep I knew/know a bloke that lived on like just over 60K A YEAR! It's doable for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doable, perhaps. But is it really any better than living on the breadline in your own country? Poverty is poverty wherever it occurs, and Thailand is no place to be down and out, IMHO.

[kenkannif]

^ Well the weather is nicer as is the food etc.

I truly don't know mate. If I had the choice of being 'poor' here or 'poor' in the UK...I'd probably opt for here.