Them And Us

[GM1955]

I have noticed on this, and many other Thai related Forums a distinct them and us attitude. Thai men are drunks, terrible drivers, lazy, uneducated etc etc, Farangs always seem to think they can do everything better, the system in their countries is better, the drivers are better, etc etc. And the abuses of Thai women on Forums is unbelievable, mind you, western women are abused terribly also.So, what is it all about ? Do you really think all things Thai are out to get you, do you really think that Thai people regard you as nothing at all ? If this was really the case in real life, I doubt the detractors would even be here, so I just wonder why Farangs run down Thailand and Thai people so much.

Edited July 21, 2010 by eek
fixed text so its readable

[Tokay]

I'll bite.

There are good and bad in every country. It just so happens that when living in a developing or poor country, the locals (those living near the poverty line) seem to have the same traits no matter where in the world they are.

I've worked in the inner city ghetto for years back in the USA. I find a lot of comparisons between the poor Thais and the poor in the American inner cities. From their attachment to gold to their excessive drinking / smoking, poor education, lack of drive to do... anything, too many fatherless families, daughters turn to prostitution at an early age, lots of abuse within the family or what is left of the family - if any at all, quickly turning to violence in any situation (they lack the skills to know how to deal with emotions like anger), the young males often fall into a "gang" mentality and will commit crimes as a group, no planning for the future, no savings and no concept of what to do with money should they have any. There is a striking resemblance between the two on many levels.

I've also worked in Colombia, Brazil and Venezuela where some of the traits are the same as well when dealing with those on the poverty level.

I can't say "the Thais" are the problem, however the report not too long ago about 80% of their teachers failing in their own subjects is disturbing and does answer a LOT as to why there is just no common sense or problem solving here. Thailand is unique to this in my opinion, where the other places I have worked could at least (usually) handle basic problem solving and common sense went a long way.

This brings be to believe that it all stems from education, or lack of education, and a healthy family unit. Of either of those break down, usually the people break down. This holds true for any country.

You can swap out "they are bad drivers" or "they are all drunks" with any nation. It is all a matter of where you are. I think the big difference in Thailand is that the type of people you may say such things about are everywhere and not just localized in one area, where they usually are in other countries. The poor and uneducated migrate to every nook and cranny of Thailand. You are unable to escape it and that is why it is discussed so much by foreigners.

On the flip side, the Thais (or locals from anywhere) talk about us too, so it always goes both ways.

[Tokay]

I'll also add...

Many falang do know how to fix a situation or a problem a Thai may have. Most of us do have some sort of a real education and are able to problem solve on a basic level, if not some on a very advanced level. If we see wrong and can fix it, we want to. That is how our minds work. Most of us thrive on bettering ourselves and our surroundings, and to be in a nation where no one really cares about anything, can be very trying on your nerves. I believe falang just want to help make Thailand a better, safer place. Not too much to ask IMHO. Sadly, there is usually something standing in the way and it's usually a lack of education or that stubborn Thai face.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't matter, nothing is going to change when you have the majority of the population dropping out of school in the 8th grade.

[surayu]

Many times people are just telling us of what happened to them in their everyday life around the country, if that put a bad light on some particular group/business/dog/whatever that's not their fault for sure, i can only say i am gratefull to them to take the time and bother to let us all known about their issue as it would certainly come to our benefit, we come from many different places around the globe, someone here i am sure it came from a different planet too, so we might incur in something that we would never expect in our land of origin and sustain unnecessary damage if we are not wary, hope that helps

[thaimite]

A few thoughts

1st

Most of the expats living in Thailand are those who have had the skills / incentives to better ourselves and be able to get that overseas position, or have the desire / ability to give a new country a chance as our home so when comparing locals to expats you already are comparing a different standard of people.

2nd.

The Asian education system from what I have seen in my travels, consists mainly of learning by rote, whereas expat education (at least mine) was much more based around working things out and solving problems from a very early age, so the ability to think for ourselves and work things out comes much more naturally from a young age. However you should never confuse education with ability. I have met some very bright people in various countries who never had the benefit of a higher or even basic education, and I have met some very highly educated people who seemed to have absolutely no common sense.

3rd

The Thai / SE Asian career structure does not reward people for taking unnecessary risks or making decisions above their pay grade so why do it?

Finally, although it is easy to generalise there are always exceptions. I have been lucky enough t help a few Thai engineers get jobs in the middle east where their willingness to work and conscientious attitude has been very appreciated by their employers, especially over other nationalities more commonly assailable in the region. The one big thing that lets most of them down is their English language skills and we as native speakers should do all we can to help them with this in return for the hospitality shown to us by the majority of Thai's

Edited July 21, 2010 by thaimite

[Atmos]

a very broad topic, here's one example/scenario

we had a neighbour, turned 75 last year. At 70 he had come here on holiday with another older male friend. You can join the dots from here . . . met woman half his age . . . returned to UK, left his wife of 40+ years . . . spends 3.5m on a villa on 30yr lease to 'lady' . . . . 4 yrs later cash is short as exchange rate have hit his pension (sole income) . . . . lady leaves him for another foreign gentleman. He can't sell the house, can't return 'home' as family wife/adult children want nothing to do with him. The Thai lady will get the house, contents, vehicles when he dies.

So as a result we have an extremely angry man who takes every opportunity to tell anyone who will listen . . . "They HATE us, they all f***ing HATE us". He lives his days out in solitary bitterness.

No more capitals, but he hates everything here, the people, the food, the drivers, the tv . . . .everything! but is basically trapped and will die here.

I imagine this scenario has happened many thousands of times in Thailand.

For me, I love it here. I won't by property here - don't see the point, maybe one day I'll move to another country but now have no plans beyond dinner tonight.

Not a bad way to be!

[F1fanatic]

Pretty much everyone who has lived here for a few years has horror stories to tell.

But then again, around 50% of people decide to stay here anyway, they prefer it for many different reasons, to their own country and find their own way to deal with the problems.

The other 50% decide they can't deal with the 'problems', and decide their home country isn't so bad after all.

[Valdezugar]

a very broad topic, here's one example/scenario

we had a neighbour, turned 75 last year. At 70 he had come here on holiday with another older male friend. You can join the dots from here . . . met woman half his age . . . returned to UK, left his wife of 40+ years . . . spends 3.5m on a villa on 30yr lease to 'lady' . . . . 4 yrs later cash is short as exchange rate have hit his pension (sole income) . . . . lady leaves him for another foreign gentleman. He can't sell the house, can't return 'home' as family wife/adult children want nothing to do with him. The Thai lady will get the house, contents, vehicles when he dies.

So as a result we have an extremely angry man who takes every opportunity to tell anyone who will listen . . . "They HATE us, they all f***ing HATE us". He lives his days out in solitary bitterness.

No more capitals, but he hates everything here, the people, the food, the drivers, the tv . . . .everything! but is basically trapped and will die here.

I imagine this scenario has happened many thousands of times in Thailand.

For me, I love it here. I won't by property here - don't see the point, maybe one day I'll move to another country but now have no plans beyond dinner tonight.

Not a bad way to be!

I think the above sums up most of the Thai bashers and negative contributors on TV and other forums. Else why would you live in a country whose systems and people you hate so much?

[sharking]

GM 1955 have you ever been outside this country???( if your thai) if so you would know what we all mean,

hope this helps you lol

[robblok]

I think the above sums up most of the Thai bashers and negative contributors on TV and other forums. Else why would you live in a country whose systems and people you hate so much?

You dont have to hate a country to complain about certain aspects of it. I like Thailand a lot but there are enough bad / crazy things too.

[elkangorito]

I think the above sums up most of the Thai bashers and negative contributors on TV and other forums. Else why would you live in a country whose systems and people you hate so much?

You dont have to hate a country to complain about certain aspects of it. I like Thailand a lot but there are enough bad / crazy things too.

I fully agree.

There is no simple 'black & white' in this situation.

[Valdezugar]

I think the above sums up most of the Thai bashers and negative contributors on TV and other forums. Else why would you live in a country whose systems and people you hate so much?

You dont have to hate a country to complain about certain aspects of it. I like Thailand a lot but there are enough bad / crazy things too.

I fully agree.

There is no simple 'black & white' in this situation.

Agreed. All is not paradise in LOS. Though I was referring to some posters (hence "most Thai bashers and . . .") who only complain about things in Thailand. Unless you're stuck there on a subsistence pension form your home country (like elsewhere mentioned on this forum) why stay there?

Everyone has the right to complain but some people just abuse that right.

[robblok]

Sure there are people who complain too much and are not happy here.

[cardholder]

Be fair GM1955, even YOU can't defend the Thai driving .

[DP25]

Some of it is due to the type of places some foreigners frequent. If you went to the US and only hung out in the Tenderloin getting drunk with prostitutes and criminals then married one and moved back to her rural trailer park with her unemployed parents and meth head brother who proceeded to clean out your bank account you'd have some pretty ridiculous opinions of the US.

[surayu]

Some of it is due to the type of places some foreigners frequent. If you went to the US and only hung out in the Tenderloin getting drunk with prostitutes and criminals then married one and moved back to her rural trailer park with her unemployed parents and meth head brother who proceeded to clean out your bank account you'd have some pretty ridiculous opinions of the US.

i believe the Tokay version of the facts resemble the local situation much better : " I think the big difference in Thailand is that the type of people you may say such things about are everywhere and not just localized in one area, where they usually are in other countries" your post instead remind me a bit of those guy claiming there are not thai-chineses working in the bars or that the Isaan area is all crap, i don't agree with that.

[mauGR1]

To answer the OP, it seems that bitter complaints are a strange form of affection (if not love) that has developed in the so-called developed countries.

Very strange if you ask me, but i complain too from time to time, simply because i care about the place where i live.

It doesn't make sense to me btw why so many foreigners are leaving their perfectly harmonious countries in flocks, to settle down in the living hel_l.

[F1fanatic]

To answer the OP, it seems that bitter complaints are a strange form of affection (if not love) that has developed in the so-called developed countries.

Very strange if you ask me, but i complain too from time to time, simply because i care about the place where i live.

It doesn't make sense to me btw why so many foreigners are leaving their perfectly harmonious countries in flocks, to settle down in the living hel_l.

Couldn't agree more! Everything is wonderful - how dare anyone go on an expat forum and air their views about life here??

Having been unhappy with aspects of their own country, they should knuckle down and never, ever breathe a word of complaint in a forum designed for expats views on their life here.

Some people are so incredibly inconsiderate, bringing up things that should be left unsaid.

Even worse, after a few years - its pretty much everyone saying things that are far better left unsaid .

As I said in a previous post, many people can't cope with the problems/differences - and move back home. Others decide that its still a better life here, despite the problems.

Its down to the individual, and what they can/can't tolerate.

[ozzieovaseas]

To answer the OP, it seems that bitter complaints are a strange form of affection (if not love) that has developed in the so-called developed countries.

Very strange if you ask me, but i complain too from time to time, simply because i care about the place where i live.

It doesn't make sense to me btw why so many foreigners are leaving their perfectly harmonious countries in flocks, to settle down in the living hel_l.

Couldn't agree more! Everything is wonderful - how dare anyone go on an expat forum and air their views about life here??

Having been unhappy with aspects of their own country, they should knuckle down and never, ever breathe a word of complaint in a forum designed for expats views on their life here.

Some people are so incredibly inconsiderate, bringing up things that should be left unsaid.

Even worse, after a few years - its pretty much everyone saying things that are far better left unsaid .

As I said in a previous post, many people can't cope with the problems/differences - and move back home. Others decide that its still a better life here, despite the problems.

Its down to the individual, and what they can/can't tolerate.

Agreed F1..

Dare i say maybe some cant tolerate the <deleted> we have to put up with people from our OWN countries..and that is why we are here...

Less farangs...and we have the luxury of only having to put up with em on Thai visa....and if we dont like it we can always use that red X button top right hand corner :jap:

[surayu]

I don't believe that the "censorship" is the right answer , back home we are having the government trying to take off the freedom of speech from the people, we got strikes going on everyday and not just from the press, i can't believe that despite a western education we are still having people wanting to take off from other people what should be recognized everywhere as a basic human right.....

[tracer5050]

you need to make your self happy, 1st and for all

[donmac]

Thaivisa and other forum on Thailand are filled with some blatant racism towards Thais. It is often seen as just having a bit of fun or "airing their view" on how to inprove their country. Dont worry it is just a bit of colonialism.

My little empire

[PhilHarries]

Having been unhappy with aspects of their own country, they should knuckle down and never, ever breathe a word of complaint in a forum designed for expats views on their life here.

I kind of get the impression your post is laden with sarcasm. The forum is here for all members to express their views, both positive and negative, on life in Thailand.

The fact that there's more negative than positive is probably a good comment on human nature. Check out the newspapers, from any country any day of the week, and count the good news items against the bad. Good news aint news but yes there's sometimes a level of extreme negativity that makes one wonder why these people ever left their home nation.

As for Thai driving, you ain't seen nothing 'til you've been to HCMC.

[barky]

Gee, I wonder why it's them and us???

A case in point.

The company I work for (about 50 Thai and 6 westeners full-time staff) are going on their yearly all expences paid "staff away trip" very soon.

None , repeat none of the westeners were invited. Weren't invited and even if any or all of the 6 westeners wanted to go, guess what? Fully booked! W.T.F.

Gee, I wonder why it's them and us???

I mean seriously, the way westeners are treated by most Thais most of the time is pathetically shameful.

I could fill pages and pages of examples of the terrible treatment metred out to westeners here but I couldn't be bothered . All anybody has to do is skim through some of the threads on TV , for example to find the evidence, even recently, such as "Scams in Thailand", "Death of a Nation etc?", "Attacked by ex-forman".

Maybe all the people who write this stuff on TV including myself ,are just low-down liars.

Some people know the truth and some people, because it suits them, refuse to accept it, are too stupid to recognise it or are just plain liars.

[Berkshire]

Maybe all the people who write this stuff on TV including myself ,are just low-down liars.

Yes. Or massive exaggeration masquerading as the truth, most of the time.

[inthepink]

The trouble is, as someone mentioned, the type of people you associate with. Sure, there are poor uneducated Thai people all over the country but that doesn't mean you have to socialise with them. The only thing i would add is that the majority of people in most countries are not all that bright and I think people tend to forget this. I don't recall the staff at McDonald's or convenience stores at home being any brighter than those over here for example.

Edited July 22, 2010 by inthepink

[Berkshire]

I believe falang just want to help make Thailand a better, safer place.

This is such a load of crock that I can't believe you wrote this. Farangs (on TV anyways), by and large, do not want to make Thailand a better place. What farangs want is to have things better for farangs, which may not necessarily be the same as making Thailand a better place. It is so incredibly disingenuous of some expats to come on these forums and spew their vile hatred of the Thai's and Thailand and call that "helping" or "constructive criticism." It is neither. It is just pointless and pathetic whining. You're not helping anybody. And if I was a Thai person with any sort of authority, I wouldn't lift a finger to help you because you don't deserve it. If anything, I'd try to make your life more miserable so you'd leave. Maybe that's why all these things that farangs complain about most (e.g., visa rules, dual-pricing, foreign land ownership, etc.) have not changed after all these years. The Thai's probably believe--rightfully so--that if they made things too pleasant for farangs in Thailand, more would come and there would be even more whining. Can't blame them one bit.

[inthepink]

I believe falang just want to help make Thailand a better, safer place.

This is such a load of crock that I can't believe you wrote this. Farangs (on TV anyways), by and large, do not want to make Thailand a better place. What farangs want is to have things better for farangs, which may not necessarily be the same as making Thailand a better place. It is so incredibly disingenuous of some expats to come on these forums and spew their vile hatred of the Thai's and Thailand and call that "helping" or "constructive criticism." It is neither. It is just pointless and pathetic whining. You're not helping anybody. And if I was a Thai person with any sort of authority, I wouldn't lift a finger to help you because you don't deserve it. If anything, I'd try to make your life more miserable so you'd leave. Maybe that's why all these things that farangs complain about most (e.g., visa rules, dual-pricing, foreign land ownership, etc.) have not changed after all these years. The Thai's probably believe--rightfully so--that if they made things too pleasant for farangs in Thailand, more would come and there would be even more whining. Can't blame them one bit.

Agree 100%. I didn't notice that little gem earlier. Virtually all the Westerners that I have met here just want an easy life for themselves and couldn't give two hoots about improving the country for the general population. Also, I wonder what makes many of them think that they have the first clue about running a country in any case. A lot of them would be hard pressed to run a bath

And...what makes them turn into committed social activists the minute they get over here? I've know a few people like that but they did precious little about the social injustices in their own country when they lived there.

Edited July 22, 2010 by inthepink

[Ulysses G.]

It is so incredibly disingenuous of some expats to come on these forums and spew their vile hatred of the Thai's and Thailand and call that "helping" or "constructive criticism." It is neither. It is just pointless and pathetic whining. You're not helping anybody. And if I was a Thai person with any sort of authority, I wouldn't lift a finger to help you because you don't deserve it. If anything, I'd try to make your life more miserable so you'd leave.

I get you and I sure hope that "Mark" does not read Thai Visa.

[thaiman]

"so I just wonder why Farangs run down Thailand and Thai people so much."

This is a reaction to how most farangs have been treated by thais.