Them And Us

[Ulysses G.]

....and than there are the very few oddballs and enigmatic types that have never sought out nor have have such desire to seek out the company/circles of 'their own kind' and the whole environment that is expected.

I enjoy being with foreigners who enjoy being in Thailand, but I have to admit that the farangs who worship everything Thai and do not hang out with other Westerners are often a strange breed.

So....you automatically equate one whom 'rejects' Westerners qualifies as a passionate Thaiophile? Interesting, indeed.

It would be even more interesting if you actually read the post before commenting on it - as that is not what it says.

[Thakkar]

Its the way expat life is. At first when you come to a new country you think it is fantastic and brag about the new country to all your friends back home and tell them it is much better than the old country and the old country has so many wrong and bad things. After some time it changes and you tend to complain a lot about people and things in the new country and you tend to think they could do it a lot better in the old country. It is only a part of the proces of settling in a new country. Every country have their specific problems, it is nothing special for Thailand.

You have succinctly described the gamut of posts on TV and other expat forums everywhere.

[StreetCowboy]

Its the way expat life is. At first when you come to a new country you think it is fantastic and brag about the new country to all your friends back home and tell them it is much better than the old country and the old country has so many wrong and bad things. After some time it changes and you tend to complain a lot about people and things in the new country and you tend to think they could do it a lot better in the old country. It is only a part of the proces of settling in a new country. Every country have their specific problems, it is nothing special for Thailand.

TOP GENERALISATION!

Good job. Culture shock in a nutshell..

Surely each country having its specific problems is special to Thailand, and indeed special to every country in the world.

Anyway, in my travels, I've not really found much difference from one country to another, and if you want something different, you're as well just staying at home and looking harder.

They're all full of people, (the countries), most of them are foreign, they speak different languages, pray differently, eat different food - its the same everywhere.

SC

[zzaa09]

This is a good point. Many farangs seem to want Thailand to change to suit them, to modernize, be more westernized, accept the western way of thinking, etc.....the caveat being that it stays cheap because most are on a limited income. You can't have it both ways. I often tell my most vocal farang Thailand critics that there's already a "Thai utopia" out there that would fit their description of a modern Thailand. It's called Japan. But of course, most of these guys couldn't afford to live there.

Seems to me that if they're looking for a Western existence, than they should probably live in the Western world, yes. Asia will never truly become Occidental in it's spirit. It's just not the nature of things. Interesting that you touch upon Japan as a paradoxical comparative, because Japan might be the definitive example of contradictions. Japan might be more Western than most contemporary Western cultures, but there is absolutely nothing Western about Japanese society - as the old adage goes. This is how Asian cultures, and their adaptations, should be looked upon.

[Ulysses G.]

This may be off the topic, but it seems that if many farang have their way, the culture of Thailand will cease to exist, and the place will just be a low-rent version of london or New York.

This is a good point. Many farangs seem to want Thailand to change to suit them, to modernize, be more westernized, accept the western way of thinking, etc.....the caveat being that it stays cheap because most are on a limited income. You can't have it both ways. I often tell my most vocal farang Thailand critics that there's already a "Thai utopia" out there that would fit their description of a modern Thailand. It's called Japan. But of course, most of these guys couldn't afford to live there.

Two good posts.

[surayu]

You are free to bend over and take any sort of abuse or unfair treatment you like, just don't expect everyone to follow your way to live your life, i am happy for you that you found a lifestyle that suit you and i am not asking you to change that for as long as that will not create to me an unfair damage, go for it and be happy, becoming wiser doesn't mean for the Orient to become Occident, i think you are making confusion here....

[zzaa09]

You are free to bend over and take any sort of abuse or unfair treatment you like, just don't expect everyone to follow your way to live your life, i am happy for you that you found a lifestyle that suit you and i am not asking you to change that for as long as that will not create to me an unfair damage, go for it and be happy, becoming wiser doesn't mean for the Orient to become Occident, i think you are making confusion here....

It's a better chance that, historically, Asian influence and contributions on Western cultures is much greater than we suspect.....subliminally.

[JiveTalker]

This may be off the topic, but it seems that if many farang have their way, the culture of Thailand will cease to exist, and the place will just be a low-rent version of london or New York.

This is a good point. Many farangs seem to want Thailand to change to suit them, to modernize, be more westernized, accept the western way of thinking, etc.....the caveat being that it stays cheap because most are on a limited income. You can't have it both ways. I often tell my most vocal farang Thailand critics that there's already a "Thai utopia" out there that would fit their description of a modern Thailand. It's called Japan. But of course, most of these guys couldn't afford to live there.

Farang is still an ugly word.

There are 1 or 2 people on here that really can't stand Thailand. There are also 1 or 2 on here that feel the need to defend Thailand against any and every minuscule slight whilst screaming about racism. All of these people are as stupid as each other. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, good or bad. Most of us fit somewhere in the middle, so perhaps you'd consider stopping banging this particular drum.

[Ulysses G.]

There are 1 or 2 people on here that really can't stand Thailand.

Well those one or two people must be using a lot of different user names. Berkshire is doing a pretty good job of pointing out that many of us do not agree with them. Does he not deserve the right to voice his opinion too?

[Lammbock]

Thailand is a developing country !!! Or in other words "70% is not working at all"

[zzaa09]

Farang is still an ugly word.

Perhaps it is. Perhaps it isn't. Depends on one's perspective and experience. Even more so giving it far too much serious thought than it probably deserves.....keeping those awake at night, I'm sure.

[harrypatterson]

I just do not think that farang is such as ugly word. I do not find it any more offensive than westerner or Caucasian. I believe it is derived from the way Thais said the word for France. I think if one uses it in an offensive manner, then it is offensive. But this is true of many words. I believe the west is being screwed up with political correctness. One thing I like about Thailand is that this is not so much the case here. But it soon will be if people get all twisted up about words like "farang." Personally, I have been called far worse, and on a regular basis, as I was married.

[kwestroc]

This may be off the topic, but it seems that if many farang have their way, the culture of Thailand will cease to exist, and the place will just be a low-rent version of london or New York.

This is a good point. Many farangs seem to want Thailand to change to suit them, to modernize, be more westernized, accept the western way of thinking, etc.....the caveat being that it stays cheap because most are on a limited income. You can't have it both ways. I often tell my most vocal farang Thailand critics that there's already a "Thai utopia" out there that would fit their description of a modern Thailand. It's called Japan. But of course, most of these guys couldn't afford to live there.

Farang is still an ugly word.

There are 1 or 2 people on here that really can't stand Thailand. There are also 1 or 2 on here that feel the need to defend Thailand against any and every minuscule slight whilst screaming about racism. All of these people are as stupid as each other. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, good or bad. Most of us fit somewhere in the middle, so perhaps you'd consider stopping banging this particular drum.

I remember telling my agency here in Thailand that calling someone a 'farang' was like calling a black person the 'N' word. The guy was raised in the US and nearly died on the spot. He looked so shocked I said something like that. But hey, I admit it drives me nuts when Thai people call me farang hehehehehe.

[Tod Daniels]

This has been beaten to death , and should, in all likelihood be closed . BUT seeing as I am most definitely NOT a MOD, whatever ..

However, with that being said; there are a hellova lot more of THEM than US here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” .

It is what it is, suck it up, accept it, and deal with it as being a FACT ‘o life .

I ALWAYS refer to thai people as THEM, YOU PEOPLE, or THEY , and nary a thai has batted an eye about it, ever !!

[Vertigotogo]

This is interesting (well, to me at least ).

Before I moved here (just a few months ago), I lived in The Gambia (West Africa) for about 3 years. A lot of the threads of discussion I see on here are very similar to the same kind of comments that were coming from expats in The Gambia; the similarities are intriguing.

I'm still a Thailand 'newbie' but am loving it; just this morning I was sat on the back of a taxi-motorbike, weaving through traffic and reflecting that I would by far be doing that than whatever I would have been doing had I still been living in the UK. I also this morning had to chuckle at my own inherent grumpiness simply because 4 Thai school kids who were collecting donations had decided to stand in a line of 4 abreast, about 3 feet away from the base of the busy elevator (note to self, internal chuckling is ok, judging is not).

The differences in culture warrant discussion, but no more than that. To criticise is simply to shoot ones self in the foot. Most of us have a choice about being here, so complaining about things that are apparent simply because of cultural differences is a bit daft.

One of the things I did observe whilst living in Africa (and I learned so much), was that most visitors to Africa seemed to think that they had lots of good ideas that would 'improve' the situation there (change it basically, even though it had been that way for thousands of years) and so far I have seen a fair bit of that going on here too, but also from the ex pats. My African friends often viewed this (silently) with great humour; as far as they were concerned, there wasn't a problem in the first place.

OK, head going back below parapet again............

[inthepink]

Great post

[JPPR2]

I found this site about a year ago and from the number of posts you can see I do not frequent it much. When I have time I read some but I am usually out living life and do not sit in front of computer. I do not see the "Us against Them" environment but then again I am not in the high traffic area where Expats/ Foreigner/Thai people co exist. I purposely stay away from those areas. I enjoy Thailand and the people and have many Thai friends. I have yet in my 2+ years of being here on and off ever ran into a bad scenario. Where I live, I very seldom ever see Caucasian folks.

[Vertigotogo]

I found this site about a year ago and from the number of posts you can see I do not frequent it much. When I have time I read some but I am usually out living life and do not sit in front of computer. I do not see the "Us against Them" environment but then again I am not in the high traffic area where Expats/ Foreigner/Thai people co exist. I purposely stay away from those areas. I enjoy Thailand and the people and have many Thai friends. I have yet in my 2+ years of being here on and off ever ran into a bad scenario. Where I live, I very seldom ever see Caucasian folks.

Well done you

[Berkshire]

There are 1 or 2 people on here that really can't stand Thailand.

Well those one or two people must be using a lot of different user names. Berkshire is doing a pretty good job of pointing out that many of us do not agree with them. Does he not deserve the right to voice his opinion too?

You're exactly right, UG. There are people on this forum (read JiveTalker et al) that just loves to hear others complain about Thai's and Thailand. Yet, when someone disagrees, they preach this "everyone has the right to voice their opinion" mantra. Am I not "voicing my opinion?" The logic (or lack thereof) of some of these yahoo's baffle me to no end.

[carmine]

There are 1 or 2 people on here that really can't stand Thailand.

Well those one or two people must be using a lot of different user names. Berkshire is doing a pretty good job of pointing out that many of us do not agree with them. Does he not deserve the right to voice his opinion too?

You're exactly right, UG. There are people on this forum (read JiveTalker et al) that just loves to hear others complain about Thai's and Thailand. Yet, when someone disagrees, they preach this "everyone has the right to voice their opinion" mantra. Am I not "voicing my opinion?" The logic (or lack thereof) of some of these yahoo's baffle me to no end.

The reasons that you guys are coming into conflict with each other is that you are at opposite extremes. Those of us that enjoy living here but realise that there are definate negatives are able to discuss without, as some do, throwing in the tedius "well theres a plane leaving every hour" line ad nauseum.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, I also enjoy living here, but see plenty of negatives. In fact, almost no one I know thinks that absolutely everything is great.

However, I have chosen to live here and I can leave any time that I choose, so I feel that it is better to make the best of the good things, rather than go on and on about all the things that I do not like.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[carmine]

Actually, I also enjoy living here, but see plenty of negatives. In fact, almost no one I know thinks that absolutely everything is great.

However, I have chosen to live here and I can leave any time that I choose, so I feel that it is better to make the best of the good things, rather than go on and on about all the things that I do not like.

I completely agree with you. I just never heard you say this before.

[Ulysses G.]

Sometimes. on the Internet, it is easy to forget that you are communicating with people who do not really know you and do not have any way of knowing little details that you think are obvious because you mention them all the time in real life. I apologize.

[zzaa09]

Actually, I also enjoy living here, but see plenty of negatives. In fact, almost no one I know thinks that absolutely everything is great.

However, I have chosen to live here and I can leave any time that I choose, so I feel that it is better to make the best of the good things, rather than go on and on about all the things that I do not like.

Well said, mate! Truisms and reality are comfort zones. It is what it is.......

[siamamerican]

I'll also add...

Many falang do know how to fix a situation or a problem a Thai may have. Most of us do have some sort of a real education and are able to problem solve on a basic level, if not some on a very advanced level. If we see wrong and can fix it, we want to. That is how our minds work. Most of us thrive on bettering ourselves and our surroundings, and to be in a nation where no one really cares about anything, can be very trying on your nerves. I believe falang just want to help make Thailand a better, safer place. Not too much to ask IMHO. Sadly, there is usually something standing in the way and it's usually a lack of education or that stubborn Thai face.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't matter, nothing is going to change when you have the majority of the population dropping out of school in the 8th grade.

For someone of such self proclaimed knowledge of worldly affairs, you sure are narrow minded. "Nothing is going to change" and you base this off of what. You have traveled extensively and lived in many countries and somehow have missed all the progress over the last 10, 20 , 30 years. That is amazing or just stupid.

At least you will have an audience (not all members) on this forum that is sure to agree with this crap you spew. By the way, have you really taken a look at Farangs here in Thailand? In a very general sense, problem solvers isn't the first thing that comes to mind.

Edited July 27, 2010 by siamamerican

[surayu]

Berkshire is doing a pretty good job of pointing out that many of us do not agree with them. Does he not deserve the right to voice his opinion too?

Yes indeed he deserve the right to voice his opinion, i am glad he can and i would surely step in his favour if somebody try to take off his right, but it seems he doesn't like others to voice their opinions, in this particular case, complaints, which are still opinions and very usefull ones too.... for whom is able to understand their importance in the real life

[surayu]

By the way, have you really taken a look at Farangs here in Thailand? In a very general sense, problem solvers isn't the first thing that comes to mind.

Believe me, even the more "useless Farang" around, is somehow solving much more problems that ones can imagine

and regarding the part of Tokay's post you mentioned, i believe he just meant that the lack of education might certainly contribute to the many problems we see around, wasn't so difficult to understand that.....

[surayu]

Actually, I also enjoy living here, but see plenty of negatives. In fact, almost no one I know thinks that absolutely everything is great.

However, I have chosen to live here and I can leave any time that I choose, so I feel that it is better to make the best of the good things, rather than go on and on about all the things that I do not like.

Well said, mate! Truisms and reality are comfort zones. It is what it is.......

Ok, let me try to put things on perspective with an example, what the "wingers brigade" is doing by complaining, can simply be defined as "prevention", why prevention? because by letting others know of the real life higher or lesser danger and problems we went trough, someone on a similar situation have the advantages of knowing what problems might be ahead and choose an alternative that proved to work or at least create the less troubles.......think about "sex" for example, it's a great source of enjoyment (for many), however we have to be aware of the many diseases that might come along by chances if we are not taking the right protections, is making others aware of the potential damages they can sustain, not enjoyng life or a bad negative thing? i don't think so!

[SuperstarStatus]

It's all good.

FARANGS will be FARANGS . Whites will always be White.

Paranoia and fear always will run threw there veins. That's why they ran the Natives out of America there own land. Enslaved the blacks. And why there is was much french/spaniard rule in so many foreign countries.

They hear of one domestic fight in there village and all of a sudden the whole village and the Thai men in it are ruthless abusive drunk scum bags.

What's new. This is old news. There just pirates that run threw villages and steal the Thai women, and claim to give them a better life, but in reality the Thai women stays on lock down with 2 kids and no attention 70% of the time when they get to Farang land.

[surayu]

Whites will always be White.

I don't believe in washing powder advertisements anymore sorry

They hear of one domestic fight in there village and all of a sudden the whole village and the Thai men in it are ruthless abusive drunk scum bags.

To be honest, in my own personal experience here, the only people that i heard quoting similar examples (ie: "thai men no good"), were thai ladies, but i never take them too seriously as it seemed to be part of a "game" they were playing with me...

What's new. This is old news. There just pirates that run threw villages and steal the Thai women, and claim to give them a better life, but in reality the Thai women stays on lock down with 2 kids and no attention 70% of the time when they get to Farang land.

Abuse is always an abuse, so being a westerner, oriental or whatever else don't make any difference, for sure an abused woman in "farangland" will be able to find much more support from the local government than locally (ie: husband being kicked out of his own home, nevermind if he doesn't have another home available, plus he will have to pay an income to the abused wife and if he can't then the local government will "sponsor" her, etc....), it's no longer a time for these kind of pirates to exist, also if we were to make some sort of statistics specifically on whom get screwed the most between a western husband and a thai wife i don't think anybody here would get surprised much by the results....