Bangkok Big C Bomb Must Not Distract Us

[webfact]

COMMENT

BIG C BOMB MUST NOT DISTRACT US

We simply can't allow act of cowardice to throw us off course

People will talk about how the outcome of the Bangkok Constituency 6 by-election will impact Thai politics, how it will benefit or negatively affect the two main rival parties. And the bomb explosIon at the BIg C Department Store's RajdamrI branch early Sunday evening will provide more talking points.

Thais, however, have no luxury to be distracted. The real significance of Sunday is the fact that Thailand was attempting to return to peaceful democracy by holding the first democratic parliamentary election since the political turbulence in April and May. And we have no choice but to remain firmly on our course.

It is not a normal by-election from the beginning. One candidate could not campaign on the streets because he was a terrorist suspect who has had to stay behind bars. He has had to compete against a government candidate and naturally the fight was taken as a test of how the Bangkok public view what happened politically over the past few months. It was a bitter, emotionally charged campaign that seemed to reflect all the negativity about Thai politics at the moment.

But we had to start somewhere. What we needed to do was to rediscover the ability to perform the simplest democratic tasks. The Constituency 6 parliamentary vacancy gave us the opportunity to take that small first step after our fall to the rock bottom. It has not been a perfect new start - far from it - but even yesterday's Big C bomb must not send us off the track.

Of course, the relatively peaceful prelude to the poll does not represent a national tendency. The by-election involved Bangkok, where the red shirts have been pretty much contained and where the state of emergency remains in effect. What would it be like if this was an election in, say, Khon Kaen or Chiang Mai? Could Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva have been able to help his candidate campaign if this was an Udon Thani by-election? Or could the Pheu Thai Party have been able to set up stages if this was held in Surat Thani?

Yet we can only judge things when they happen in front of us. And from what we have seen regarding Bangkok's Constituency 6, we should be encouraged to take the next steps regardless of any act of cowardice intended to make us think otherwise. To go ahead requires contribution and sacrifice from both sides. The government must open its heart toward the growing calls for an end to the state of emergency where It's possIble to lift It, while the red shirts must make sure not to try to take advantage of the absence of the strict measures and defy law and order.

Rumours have been persistent about a new wave of violence, and the bomb incident will surely amplify them. The government's task is to overcome the fears and do everything possible to make sure a free and fair general election can take place as soon as possible. For the red shirts and the Pheu Thai Party, it must have become very obvious to them that for an election to come early as they always want, they will have to help build a conducive atmosphere.

We can only see it two ways. Either the Bangkok by-election - in which one candidate could only appear on front pages in prison uniform - is evidence of hopelessness, a clear sign that we haven't gone anywhere - or it provides a glimmer of hope. Some countries have seen worse, despite what some people are trying to say. Those countries have seen political prisoners fade into oblivion and their supporters pass on messages in the most secretive manner and nobody else ever seems to care.

Despite the unprecedented violence and divide, there are some things very "Thai" remaining about this crisis. We have no choice amid this prevailing desperation but try to see hope. If negative national characteristics have brought us here, maybe we must counter by employing the positive, unique ones to get ourselves out of it. Whether the by-election is a good effort or not, the only way to go is to keep on trying.

-- The Nation 2010-07-25

[animatic]

Or could the Pheu Thai Party have been able to set up stages if this was held in Surat Thani?

The TRT, the PPP and PTP have all set up stages in Surat Thani and said their stuff.

they suffered no physical harassment and ran their show as they chose to.

I don't think their northern partners grant anything resembling the same level of freedom of speech.

TRT, PPP and PTP of course all LOST in Surat Thani, but that really is not the point.

They WERE allowed to try.

In addition, the two Candidates that PTP proposed were BOTH in jail for terrorism charges.

We have seen the violence, and seen these men on the stage, and heard their words.

PTP had the option of distancing themselves from the violent factions and fielding candidates

who were free of encumbrance and legal questions, that were legitmate and qualified,

and not tied directly to a violent street action.

They chose to tie themselves directly to some theoretical ground swell of hate

caused by the fact their illegal rally had to be removed, and violence ensued.

They bet the farm that people would suddenly love them and hate the government for

removing them, this proved to be a false assumption.

PTP has itself to blame for not fielding a properly qualified candidate

with no hideous baggage attached. They chose not to and lost their bet.

Edited July 25, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

Or could the Pheu Thai Party have been able to set up stages if this was held in Surat Thani?

The TRT, the PPP and PTP have all set up stages in Surat Thani and said their stuff.

they suffered no physical harassment and ran their show as they chose to.

I don't think their northern partners grant anything resembling the same level of freedom of speech.

TRT, PPP and PTP of course all LOST in Surat Thani, but that really is not the point.

They WERE allowed to try.

In addition, the two Candidates that PTP proposed were BOTH in jail for terrorism charges.

We have seen the violence, and seen these men on the stage, and heard their words.

PTP had the option of distancing themselves from the violent factions and fielding candidates

who were free of encumbrance and legal questions, that were legitmate and qualified,

and not tied directly to a violent street action.

They chose to tie themselves directly to some theoretical ground swell of hate

caused by the fact their illegal rally had to be removed, and violence ensued.

They bet the farm that people would suddenly love them and hate the government for

removing them, this proved to be a false assumption.

PTP has itself to blame for not fielding a properly qualified candidate

with no hideous baggage attached. They chose not to and lost their bet.

Hear, hear !

[geriatrickid]

Don't be distracted? Gosh. Tell that to the people picking up limbs and assorted body parts. Hard not to be distracted when your mom or brother just got blown up.

Sheesh.

Don't be distracted. Right. Let's just pretend it's not happening and we can go into denial. That will do the trick.

My friend that votes in the district didn't vote and didn't care. He's turned off and tuned out. That speaks volumes.

[mommysboy]

Don't be distracted? Gosh. Tell that to the people picking up limbs and assorted body parts. Hard not to be distracted when your mom or brother just got blown up.

Sheesh.

Don't be distracted. Right. Let's just pretend it's not happening and we can go into denial. That will do the trick.

My friend that votes in the district didn't vote and didn't care. He's turned off and tuned out. That speaks volumes.

I entirely agree. Shame, shame, shame on this report.

It really is time to end this deadly charade.

Most people just want a fair, decent society.

Personally, although I have strong convictions, I do not support extremism of any hue, and hold all parties responsible in this 'bloody mess'.

[animatic]

But the aim of the bombing has to be distraction from reconciliation

through improvements in society in some negotiated form.

That is what I read as his thoughts on what to not be distracted from.

It is not the poor souls harmed by this unconscionable act that are the target,

sadly they are the objectified means, the target is the hearts and minds of all Thais,

and they are who is being asked to not be distracted from progress in spite of the

evil ones wishing their narrow views become the norm.

Edited July 25, 2010 by animatic

[RKASA]

He had to compete against a government candidate from a prison cell and still they only have 54%. It was reported that others got vary few votes so this man in prison did pretty well if you consider the events of the resent past. Remember these are Bangkok voters not people from out of town or up north.

Not pulling down 65% or more from this location under these condition after what happened in Bangkok is something to be concerned about really.

The government has more work to do - they are not winning enough minds and hearts in Bangkok, you can be sure they are not winning many up north. When is a lose a victory - when it shows that the messes really didn't turn on you in large numbers as predicted.

What motivated someone to attack is beyond understanding to me, it seems vary self defeating if it was the reds, but there are always wing nuts running around in times like these.

[craigt3365]

He had to compete against a government candidate from a prison cell and still they only have 54%. It was reported that others got vary few votes so this man in prison did pretty well if you consider the events of the resent past. Remember these are Bangkok voters not people from out of town or up north.

Not pulling down 65% or more from this location under these condition after what happened in Bangkok is something to be concerned about really.

The government has more work to do - they are not winning enough minds and hearts in Bangkok, you can be sure they are not winning many up north. When is a lose a victory - when it shows that the messes really didn't turn on you in large numbers as predicted.

What motivated someone to attack is beyond understanding to me, it seems vary self defeating if it was the reds, but there are always wing nuts running around in times like these.

They may live in Bangkok, but many are not BKK people. Many are from Issan, just live and work in BKK. For sure, there is lots of work to do. Such a mess. And so sad some turn to violence to get their point across.

Can't wait to see what happens when a dem trys to campaign in Chiang Mai! It will be interesting to watch, for sure....

[mommysboy]

Or could the Pheu Thai Party have been able to set up stages if this was held in Surat Thani?

The TRT, the PPP and PTP have all set up stages in Surat Thani and said their stuff.

they suffered no physical harassment and ran their show as they chose to.

I don't think their northern partners grant anything resembling the same level of freedom of speech.

TRT, PPP and PTP of course all LOST in Surat Thani, but that really is not the point.

They WERE allowed to try.

In addition, the two Candidates that PTP proposed were BOTH in jail for terrorism charges.

We have seen the violence, and seen these men on the stage, and heard their words.

PTP had the option of distancing themselves from the violent factions and fielding candidates

who were free of encumbrance and legal questions, that were legitmate and qualified,

and not tied directly to a violent street action.

They chose to tie themselves directly to some theoretical ground swell of hate

caused by the fact their illegal rally had to be removed, and violence ensued.

They bet the farm that people would suddenly love them and hate the government for

removing them, this proved to be a false assumption.

PTP has itself to blame for not fielding a properly qualified candidate

with no hideous baggage attached. They chose not to and lost their bet.

Well the least said about the politics the better, this fragmentation between yellow and red, green and purple with pink spots or whatever just acts as a distraction, Thailand needs a reality check. It's simply not acceptable to be caught between a bunch of violent thugs, and a bunch of social psychopaths bleeding the country dry. Not much of a choice there really!

What a terrible situation!

[asiawatcher]

The animals who set this off need execution - this is no longer a civil unrest situation or any form of protest. It is a murderous response by extremists who have a total disregard for anyone or anything. They enjoy doing what they are doing. So if the tomato BiB do nothing then this country is lost. Time to take action - with 'extreme' prejudice.

[chainarong]

The animals who set this off need execution - this is no longer a civil unrest situation or any form of protest. It is a murderous response by extremists who have a total disregard for anyone or anything. They enjoy doing what they are doing. So if the tomato BiB do nothing then this country is lost. Time to take action - with 'extreme' prejudice.

I Agree with the word animals.

[chantorn]

When will the next bomb goes off?

I guess, just before the next CRES meeting on lifting SOE.

[mazeltov]

before wild speculations start here some facts:

Cases of election related violence in the 2007 election:

• 18 December: Three armed soldiers from ISOC were arrested by police while monitoring the house of Sa‐nguan Pongmanee, PPP candidate. The incident took place in front of Sa‐nguan's house in Muang district, Lamphun.
  
• 17 December: A truck belonged to Thawisak Pho‐Ngarm (37), canvasser of Aphinan Kambang Pue Phan Din candidate in Prajuab Kirikhan, was torched. The incident took place near Thawisak house in Mu 1 tambon Khao Noi, Pran Buri district, Prajuab Kirikhan. Thawisak reported that he had been threatened before. After the incident, Thawisak has been relocated to a safe house in Bang Saphan district (provided by Aphinan, exact location unknown). A complaint was filed with local police.
  
• 15 December: Prasong Sintuchai, canvasser of PPP in Prae and village headman in Mu 8 tambon Hua Muang, Song district, was shot dead in his house.
  
• 14 December: Den Yongkit (57), Canvasser of PPP in Muang district, Krabi, reported an assassination attempt. Gunmen opened fire into his house in Mu 11 tambon Krabi Noi, Muang district. No one was injured.
  
• 9 December: Payong Ananthasuk (52), former TAO chairman in tambon Boyang, and also canvasser of Chada Thaiseth and Nophadol Pholsen Chart Thai candidates in Uthai Thaini, was shot dead. He was shot in his house (Mu 6 Ban Ngiew Pom, tambon Boyang, Sawang Arom district) with a shotgun.
  
• 7 December: Somsak Morichat, Democrat candidate in Chiang Mai, reported an assassination attempt. He was shot (which he narrowly escaped) with 11mm gun while he was visiting his canvassers in that evening. He reported many phone threats telling him to withdraw from the contest. Somsak represents indigenous constituency (Karen). Democrat coordination center in Chiang Mai requested police protection for Somsak.
  
• 1 December: Manit Pijitbanjong (45), Democrat canvasser in Pak Payom distict, Pattalung, was shot dead. He was killed with a shotgun while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Ban Tro, tambon Tamnan, Muang district.
  
• 19 November: Mayusoh Satapo (54), canvasser of Dr Waemahadi Waedao Pue Phan Din candidate in Narathiwat, was shot and seriously injured. Mayusoh was attacked with M16 and AK47 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Mu 1 tambon Lamphu, Muang district, Narathiwat.
  
• 5 November: Binsoh Masae (48), canvasser of Narong Duding Democrat candidate, and village headman in Mu 5 Ban Paju, tambon Patae, Yaha district, was shot dead with bodyguard. Binsoh was attacked with AK47 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in front of a mosque in Mu 7 Ban Kato, tambon Patae, Yaha district, Yala.
  
• 22 October: Dr Charnchai Silapauaychai Phrae (53), PPP canvasser and PAO chairman of Prae, was shot dead while jogging in a sports stadium in Muang district.
  
• 5 October: Man Rodkeaw (66), PPP canvasser, and kamnan of tambon Ban Na, Wachirabarimi district, was shot dead with his bodyguard. He was shot with M16 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Mu 8 Ban Huay Hang, tambon Nong Lum, Wachirabarami district, Pijit.

source: Report of the International Election Observation Mission by The Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL)

http://www.anfrel.org/report/thailand/thai_2007/THAI%20MISSION_2007.pdf

[jayjay0]

before wild speculations start here some facts:

Cases of election related violence in the 2007 election:

• 18 December: Three armed soldiers from ISOC were arrested by police while monitoring the house of Sa‐nguan Pongmanee, PPP candidate. The incident took place in front of Sa‐nguan's house in Muang district, Lamphun.
• 17 December: A truck belonged to Thawisak Pho‐Ngarm (37), canvasser of Aphinan Kambang Pue Phan Din candidate in Prajuab Kirikhan, was torched. The incident took place near Thawisak house in Mu 1 tambon Khao Noi, Pran Buri district, Prajuab Kirikhan. Thawisak reported that he had been threatened before. After the incident, Thawisak has been relocated to a safe house in Bang Saphan district (provided by Aphinan, exact location unknown). A complaint was filed with local police.
• 15 December: Prasong Sintuchai, canvasser of PPP in Prae and village headman in Mu 8 tambon Hua Muang, Song district, was shot dead in his house.
• 14 December: Den Yongkit (57), Canvasser of PPP in Muang district, Krabi, reported an assassination attempt. Gunmen opened fire into his house in Mu 11 tambon Krabi Noi, Muang district. No one was injured.
• 9 December: Payong Ananthasuk (52), former TAO chairman in tambon Boyang, and also canvasser of Chada Thaiseth and Nophadol Pholsen Chart Thai candidates in Uthai Thaini, was shot dead. He was shot in his house (Mu 6 Ban Ngiew Pom, tambon Boyang, Sawang Arom district) with a shotgun.
• 7 December: Somsak Morichat, Democrat candidate in Chiang Mai, reported an assassination attempt. He was shot (which he narrowly escaped) with 11mm gun while he was visiting his canvassers in that evening. He reported many phone threats telling him to withdraw from the contest. Somsak represents indigenous constituency (Karen). Democrat coordination center in Chiang Mai requested police protection for Somsak.
• 1 December: Manit Pijitbanjong (45), Democrat canvasser in Pak Payom distict, Pattalung, was shot dead. He was killed with a shotgun while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Ban Tro, tambon Tamnan, Muang district.
• 19 November: Mayusoh Satapo (54), canvasser of Dr Waemahadi Waedao Pue Phan Din candidate in Narathiwat, was shot and seriously injured. Mayusoh was attacked with M16 and AK47 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Mu 1 tambon Lamphu, Muang district, Narathiwat.
• 5 November: Binsoh Masae (48), canvasser of Narong Duding Democrat candidate, and village headman in Mu 5 Ban Paju, tambon Patae, Yaha district, was shot dead with bodyguard. Binsoh was attacked with AK47 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in front of a mosque in Mu 7 Ban Kato, tambon Patae, Yaha district, Yala.
• 22 October: Dr Charnchai Silapauaychai Phrae (53), PPP canvasser and PAO chairman of Prae, was shot dead while jogging in a sports stadium in Muang district.
• 5 October: Man Rodkeaw (66), PPP canvasser, and kamnan of tambon Ban Na, Wachirabarimi district, was shot dead with his bodyguard. He was shot with M16 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Mu 8 Ban Huay Hang, tambon Nong Lum, Wachirabarami district, Pijit.

source: Report of the International Election Observation Mission by The Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL)

http://www.anfrel.or...ISSION_2007.pdf

I believe that most of those were before the election. They are in no way simalar to the Big C indiscriminate bombing. Not even close. Besides Thailand is noted for its high murder rate. In that time period I am sure there were a lot more murders. And why would some one kill a canvasser where is the political gain in that?

[hammered]

Basically it knockled a humiliting electoral defeat off the front pages and one that PTP thought they would win on a sub 50% turnout in a constituency where they have a big base and the reds had set the vote up as a referendum on the red action knowing they would turn out tens of thousands of votes and knowing a lot of the Dem voters wouold go away for the long weekend. It didnt go as planned,. A 10% margin on a low turnout is better than any Dem would have dared predict on such a turnout and far worse than the PTP internal predictions for such a scenario.

Still plan B the bomb knocked it off the front pages and also ensured the SoE must stay whiohc is just what Thaksin wants for PR reasons abroad. It was the fall back plan. If Korkaew had won then no bomb. Real Politik 101

Interesting that Thaksin's statement implicitly admits it was his side.

[jayboy]

Basically it knockled a humiliting electoral defeat off the front pages and one that PTP thought they would win on a sub 50% turnout in a constituency where they have a big base and the reds had set the vote up as a referendum on the red action knowing they would turn out tens of thousands of votes and knowing a lot of the Dem voters wouold go away for the long weekend. It didnt go as planned,. A 10% margin on a low turnout is better than any Dem would have dared predict on such a turnout and far worse than the PTP internal predictions for such a scenario.

Still plan B the bomb knocked it off the front pages and also ensured the SoE must stay whiohc is just what Thaksin wants for PR reasons abroad. It was the fall back plan. If Korkaew had won then no bomb. Real Politik 101

Interesting that Thaksin's statement implicitly admits it was his side.

Hammered.

Crikey - what's happened to the voice of reason I used to respect? "Humiliating electoral defeat" - Come on -no serious commentator believes that, eg the sensible Bangkok Post editorial this morning.

Even worse you speculation about the bomb.What's happened to you? Perhaps you're just fed up with the endless saga - and I sympathise.

More in sorrow than in anger.

[phetaroi]

I think the author of the original article has it all wrong. This terrorism SHOULD distract the Thais from the image of normalcy they obsess over maintaining.

"Things are back to normal." No, they're not.

"Tourism set to increase." Well, from the low point, probably, but the bigger question is -- is it a truly safe tourist destination?

"The economy will continue to grow." Or not...too soon really to tell, and it all depends on where the situation goes from here.

Unless the Thais get distracted from business as usual, nothing will change.

[animatic]

before wild speculations start here some facts:

Cases of election related violence in the 2007 election:

• 18 December: Three armed soldiers from ISOC were arrested by police while monitoring the house of Sa‐nguan Pongmanee, PPP candidate. The incident took place in front of Sa‐nguan's house in Muang district, Lamphun.
• 17 December: A truck belonged to Thawisak Pho‐Ngarm (37), canvasser of Aphinan Kambang Pue Phan Din candidate in Prajuab Kirikhan, was torched. The incident took place near Thawisak house in Mu 1 tambon Khao Noi, Pran Buri district, Prajuab Kirikhan. Thawisak reported that he had been threatened before. After the incident, Thawisak has been relocated to a safe house in Bang Saphan district (provided by Aphinan, exact location unknown). A complaint was filed with local police.
• 15 December: Prasong Sintuchai, canvasser of PPP in Prae and village headman in Mu 8 tambon Hua Muang, Song district, was shot dead in his house.
• 14 December: Den Yongkit (57), Canvasser of PPP in Muang district, Krabi, reported an assassination attempt. Gunmen opened fire into his house in Mu 11 tambon Krabi Noi, Muang district. No one was injured.
• 9 December: Payong Ananthasuk (52), former TAO chairman in tambon Boyang, and also canvasser of Chada Thaiseth and Nophadol Pholsen Chart Thai candidates in Uthai Thaini, was shot dead. He was shot in his house (Mu 6 Ban Ngiew Pom, tambon Boyang, Sawang Arom district) with a shotgun.
• 7 December: Somsak Morichat, Democrat candidate in Chiang Mai, reported an assassination attempt. He was shot (which he narrowly escaped) with 11mm gun while he was visiting his canvassers in that evening. He reported many phone threats telling him to withdraw from the contest. Somsak represents indigenous constituency (Karen). Democrat coordination center in Chiang Mai requested police protection for Somsak.
• 1 December: Manit Pijitbanjong (45), Democrat canvasser in Pak Payom distict, Pattalung, was shot dead. He was killed with a shotgun while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Ban Tro, tambon Tamnan, Muang district.
• 19 November: Mayusoh Satapo (54), canvasser of Dr Waemahadi Waedao Pue Phan Din candidate in Narathiwat, was shot and seriously injured. Mayusoh was attacked with M16 and AK47 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Mu 1 tambon Lamphu, Muang district, Narathiwat.
• 5 November: Binsoh Masae (48), canvasser of Narong Duding Democrat candidate, and village headman in Mu 5 Ban Paju, tambon Patae, Yaha district, was shot dead with bodyguard. Binsoh was attacked with AK47 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in front of a mosque in Mu 7 Ban Kato, tambon Patae, Yaha district, Yala.
• 22 October: Dr Charnchai Silapauaychai Phrae (53), PPP canvasser and PAO chairman of Prae, was shot dead while jogging in a sports stadium in Muang district.
• 5 October: Man Rodkeaw (66), PPP canvasser, and kamnan of tambon Ban Na, Wachirabarimi district, was shot dead with his bodyguard. He was shot with M16 rifles while driving his pickup truck on a local road in Mu 8 Ban Huay Hang, tambon Nong Lum, Wachirabarami district, Pijit.

source: Report of the International Election Observation Mission by The Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL)

http://www.anfrel.or...ISSION_2007.pdf

Possible facts, from a little known entity,

having nothing what so ever to do with the topic.

[animatic]

Basically it knockled a humiliting electoral defeat off the front pages and one that PTP thought they would win on a sub 50% turnout in a constituency where they have a big base and the reds had set the vote up as a referendum on the red action knowing they would turn out tens of thousands of votes and knowing a lot of the Dem voters wouold go away for the long weekend. It didnt go as planned,. A 10% margin on a low turnout is better than any Dem would have dared predict on such a turnout and far worse than the PTP internal predictions for such a scenario.

Still plan B the bomb knocked it off the front pages and also ensured the SoE must stay which is just what Thaksin wants for PR reasons abroad. It was the fall back plan. If Korkaew had won then no bomb. Real Politik 101

Interesting that Thaksin's statement implicitly admits it was his side.

Yes exactly. on several points.

Obscured the loss from better acknowledgment globally.

In real terms PTP got it's ass handed to it for backing the

wrong horse for way wrong ideological reasoning.

Yes Team Thaksin can't slag the government as oppressive if it is visibly backing off pressures.

So give it valid reason to maintain tight security.

And yes that Kuhn T. just as much admitted he thought HIS followers were responsible.

In addition, the whining of an un-even playing field is lame at best and moribund at worst.

PTP chose a candidate who was in jail on terrorism charges, they could have picked one

with no legal issues and more obvious competence. They picked a lamed candidate,

and knew that to be the case before hand. Som nom na.

Secondly the playing field was the same for both sides since

ALL Thais in Bangkok are under the same constraints vis a vis the SoE.

and yet all campaigns went forward, and the voters were met and bullshited as candidates all do.

[Piengrudee]

Bombing is an expensive operation.  Red- all account frozen, so have no money to fund bombing. Yellow - account not frozen, but have better thing to do in Sukhumvit 40 than to paln a bomb. Govt/Army/CRES - Lots of tax money, plus no one will suspect, plus have access to all the bomb material for free.  This is just my deduction.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Piengrudee