Dual Citizenship Thai/German Over 21

[Luckes]

Hi guys,

need some advice on a issue I have right now.

1.

I am over 21 years old and just got my Thai ID. I entered Thailand with the German PPT. I will visit my family next year.

The Immigration Bureau in BKK told me I am not allowed to hold 2 PPT's as a Thai. Others are telling me it is allowed.

2.

Can I just leave from the airport with my Thai PPT and enter Germany with the German one and when I leave Germany on the German and enter Thailand on the Thai PPT? Will they ask why I do not have a visa for Germany? Coz they told me it is not allowed to hold two PPT's. Will they take the Thai PTT away? Or is there another way I should work this out? Get a one year visa with the German PPT for example through the houseregister?

3.

Are they any statements from offical side regarding this issue? Reliable source? Is everything up to date or are they any changes?

More informations:

What I have:

ID

Houseregister

ID Number

Thai PPT

German PPT

Thanks a lot in advance.

cheers

[Luckes]

I forgot to mention that the person I spoke to at the Immigration told me that this is a new law that no one is allowed to hold dual citizenships when one of them is a Thai. Not even US PPT's. I asked the immigration officer he send me to a person in charge of this kind of things. Dunno whether he just didn't like my question or didn't like me

[wolf5370]

OK two things here. First, if you entered on your German Passport, then leave on it - otherwise you will be an overstay. Second, ignore them, it is perfectly legal for you to have more than one nationality - Thailand accepts dual nationality (the PM is for starters!). My wife and kids have two passports. They enter/leave Thailand using their Thai passports, and enter/leave the UK using their British ones. No problems in 12 years doing this. He who must not be named was born in the USA, so may well have two passports also (anyone know for sure?)

I believe the problem is due to a confusion. From what I have been told, dual National children can choose to drop their Thai nationality in favour of their foreign one at 19, but be totally dual prior to that. However, my understanding of this is its a choice, and if not taken, that person continues as a dual national.

[wolf5370]

Well, my wife just flew in from the UK last week and is off again for work this Friday - she used both passports (on the 15th) at mboth swampy and CM Intl. with no problems whatsoever. I can't see anyone bringing in such a law as a lot of the 'important' people hold multiple nationalities (including the PM as I said). If you have both passports already, why are you talking to immigration? Its probably the usual - 'no-idea-so-err-in-the-negative' immigration response, try a different offie/counter next time

[wolf5370]

Here is more proof - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/386445-vanessa-mae-to-represent-thailand-at-2014-winter-olympics/page__pid__3775180#entry3775180 Venssa Mae, British Citizen (who, the report states, also holds a Thai passport) will represent Thailand in 2014 etc...over 19 (and 21 for that) and a dual national - think they will cancel her Thai citizenship after just green lighting her for representing Thailand?

[inthepink]

It does seem to be an area of confusion. Dual nationality is certainly possible but there was an act passed in 1992 that stated a child of a foreign father who took his father's nationality had to decide at the age of 20 whether to be Thai or whatever nationality he or she had taken. Whether or not this act has been updated since I don't know.

[Maestro]

Luckes, please read this post and you will realise that Thai immigration attaches great importance to matching each entry stamp with an exit stamp. A German arrives and gets an entry stamp. When he leaves, the exit stamp must go in the same passport. If he gets a new passport whilst in Thailand, he must go to the immigration office to get the entry stamp in his old passport transferred to the new passport.

A Thai leaves Thailand and gets an exit stamp. On his return to Thailand, the entry stamp must go in the same passport. If he loses his passport whilst abroad, he must have documentation to prove this. If he gets a new Thai passport outside Thailand, he must present both his old and new passport to the immigration officer on his return.

You arrived in Thailand with your German passport and therefore must leave Thailand with the same passport. You now have a Thai passport issued in Thailand and when you arrive in Thailand with it the next time it will not have a Thai exit stamp and chances are that the Thai immigration officer will question you about it.

--

Maestro

[7by7]

Thailand has no problems with dual nationality; but Germany may.

See II. Basic Primer on German Citizenship Law from the German embassy in the US.

[beano2274]

My two kids are German/British, but we were informed that at a certain age they must choose a Nationality and not have dual nationality. Also if you are a man you can be called forward for conscription in the German army, if you use your Thai nationality to get away with it then the Germans might cancel your German passport, and Nationality. This last point is worth looking into, as I am not 100percent sure, but I know if you do not do Conscription when called upon you can be sent in front of a judge and be charged.

[lopburi3]

Actually Thailand has a great deal of trouble with dual nationality but as is the case in the USA there is no current law to prevent it. In the USA it has been accepted from legal decisions on fringe issues but in Thailand there does not seem to be any legal basis and a strong push has been made in recent years, because of the Malaysia dual citizenship issue, to prevent it. Higher levels will normally accept dual passports so for most people it has not been a serious issue if taken to the next level. But you may have to push the issue and if it became nasty who knows which way the wind might blow.

[Mario2008]

The Thai law states that one must chose when one turns 21, or beter said must make a declariotion of your intention to denounce one nationality. But it doesn't state any penalty for not doing, so it has no consequences if you don't. Aso not that you must make an intention, which is not the same as actually renouncing.

Immigration/the interior ministry seem to be getting tougher on this, but so far they lack legal means to do anything about it. Best is always only show one passport to immigration, only at check-in wth the ailine do you ned to show both passports.

[fatfather]

Germany does not accept any double citicenship for Germans. As soon as they recocnise that you hold two passports of different countries and one is a German, you'll have to choose one of them. As a German citizen you'll not be allowed to have another citizenship. In former times it was possible for some people who qualified, but not anymore nowadays.

[Luckes]

Germany does not accept any double citicenship for Germans. As soon as they recocnise that you hold two passports of different countries and one is a German, you'll have to choose one of them. As a German citizen you'll not be allowed to have another citizenship. In former times it was possible for some people who qualified, but not anymore nowadays.

It would be interesting to me were you got this from.

It depends, when you were born as German/Thai than you have the right of being a dual citizen. I was working at the immigration in Germany and I saw many people with German/American, German/Russian Ptt's for example.

But when you are a American/Thai and want to become German you have to drop both nationalities before becoming German.

Thanks for all you nice posts! did help a lot.

[Luckes]

Luckes, please read this post and you will realise that Thai immigration attaches great importance to matching each entry stamp with an exit stamp. A German arrives and gets an entry stamp. When he leaves, the exit stamp must go in the same passport. If he gets a new passport whilst in Thailand, he must go to the immigration office to get the entry stamp in his old passport transferred to the new passport.

A Thai leaves Thailand and gets an exit stamp. On his return to Thailand, the entry stamp must go in the same passport. If he loses his passport whilst abroad, he must have documentation to prove this. If he gets a new Thai passport outside Thailand, he must present both his old and new passport to the immigration officer on his return.

You arrived in Thailand with your German passport and therefore must leave Thailand with the same passport. You now have a Thai passport issued in Thailand and when you arrive in Thailand with it the next time it will not have a Thai exit stamp and chances are that the Thai immigration officer will question you about it.

--

Maestro

But when I will never use the German PPT again here in THailand, why do I have to pay overstay when I am a Thai already. In real, I don't wanna go out again. Did it for a couple of years and it's a waste of time and money.

Oh and what about this than? You all are telling me it is allowed and what does that mean than?

Case

Individual who enter the kingdom with foreign passport and depart with Thai passport.

How do Immigration officers handle?

Pratice

Immigration officers do as follows.

1. Only give a permit to the passport that was used to enter into the kingdom. Under the Thailand's Nationality Act.

2. For Thai whose have two nationality, do report this matter to Special Branch then to Department of Interior and to be annouced in the Goverment Gazette.

3. For individual who enter into the kingdom with foreign passport then changed nationality to Thai. If he/she still use that foreign passport, the officer make a report to Special Branch to revoke Thai nationality.

so is it now ok or not so confusing

Edited July 27, 2010 by Luckes

[Luckes]

Ok, after I went through the whole thread which the nice admin gave me --- http://www.thaivisa....al-nationality/

I am kind of scared.

My Thai PPT is issued in BKK when I leave now to cambodia for example or even Germany just to get the exit stamp. When I go back or fly back and would like to pass the immigration they will look for the exit stamp in the Thai PPT.

And when I leave for Germany on my Thai PPT they could ask me for my visa or could assume I have a German PPT and call the special branch to inform them I have two nationalities.

I am not sure where I wanna spend my life right now. I was born in Germany but spend a lot of time here and even went to the Thai school. I am one of the many lug kruengs and we getting more and more. I feel like a Thai and I feel like a German person too who likes both places coz he is a lug krueng. Why do they make it so difficult for us. We do no harm and we couldn't choose to be just a German or just a Thai son/daugher.

cheers

Edited July 27, 2010 by Luckes

[Mario2008]

...........Oh and what about this than? You all are telling me it is allowed and what does that mean than?

Case

Individual who enter the kingdom with foreign passport and depart with Thai passport.

How do Immigration officers handle?

Pratice

Immigration officers do as follows.

1. Only give a permit to the passport that was used to enter into the kingdom. Under the Thailand's Nationality Act.

2. For Thai whose have two nationality, do report this matter to Special Branch then to Department of Interior and to be annouced in the Goverment Gazette.

3. For individual who enter into the kingdom with foreign passport then changed nationality to Thai. If he/she still use that foreign passport, the officer make a report to Special Branch to revoke Thai nationality.

so is it now ok or not so confusing

Read it carefully. It says a foreigner who naturalised to Thai nationality, that is different than having Thai nationality by way of law (you were born with two nationalities).

Thai nationality law is very vague, as it says on this point you can't make use of your other nationality. That is different from having to renounce your other nationality, but raises the question when you would be using your other nationality.

[Luckes]

Ok, after I went through the whole thread which the nice admin gave me --- http://www.thaivisa....al-nationality/

I am kind of scared.

My Thai PPT is issued in BKK when I leave now to cambodia for example or even Germany just to get the exit stamp. When I go back or fly back and would like to pass the immigration they will look for the exit stamp in the Thai PPT.

And when I leave for Germany on my Thai PPT they could ask me for my visa or could assume I have a German PPT and call the special branch to inform them I have two nationalities.

What about his than?

btw. Why do you know so much about this kind of stuff?

Edited July 27, 2010 by Luckes

[Mario2008]

You just explain them why. Many peope do have two passports and some do get questioned by immigration, but in the end ask for a superiour and there wil be no problem.

[Luckes]

You just explain them why. Many peope do have two passports and some do get questioned by immigration, but in the end ask for a superiour and there wil be no problem.

so does it make a diffrent whether I leave now with the german ppt to avoid an overstay or can I leave next year with "overstay" but with the Thai ppt?

[lopburi3]

You have another option as anyone with Thai ID can easily obtain a one year extension of stay from Immigration with a TM.7 form/photo/1,900 baht plus copy of ID and probably house register.

[Luckes]

How long does this take? and would it affect me in any way? Would I be still able to work here as a Thai than? Would I have to extend it ever 3 month or is just one visit enough?

Thanks so far

[lopburi3]

It would take about 20 minutes. But you would not be able to work without a work permit as you would be here as a foreign national. You would have to do the normal 90 day address reporting but the extension of stay would be for the full year.

[Luckes]

Why wouldn't I be able to work? I have my Thai ID. When this is really not going to work, what kind of other options would I have.

Thanks

[tombkk]

Germany does not accept any double citicenship for Germans. As soon as they recocnise that you hold two passports of different countries and one is a German, you'll have to choose one of them. As a German citizen you'll not be allowed to have another citizenship. In former times it was possible for some people who qualified, but not anymore nowadays.

That's not entirely true.

You are right, I know a couple of Germans who gave up their German citizenship in order to become Thais, and I know Germans who cancelled their application for Thai citizenship because they didn't want to give up their German citizenship. But what you say and what they had heard is not what the (German) law says.

However, you have to talk to the German embassy and go through some loops *before* you apply for Thai citizenship, in order to keep your German citizenship. It's possible. I understand that if you apply for a foreign citizenship before having gone through the loops with the Germans, then you will have to give up your German citizenship.

Anyway, this may be off-topic for this thread, as the OP apparently was born with dual nationality.

[tombkk]

My two kids are German/British, but we were informed that at a certain age they must choose a Nationality and not have dual nationality. Also if you are a man you can be called forward for conscription in the German army, if you use your Thai nationality to get away with it then the Germans might cancel your German passport, and Nationality. This last point is worth looking into, as I am not 100percent sure, but I know if you do not do Conscription when called upon you can be sent in front of a judge and be charged.

About conscription: I understand that the German government has to pay for your initial travel to the barracks. This is why they will usually exempt people who live abroad. At least this was true about 25 years ago...

[Nignoy]

Hi , germany does not allow residents born in germany to have twin nationalities, a few years ago there was the case of peter schubert, emigrated to australia , had to give up his german nationality to be come australian, 7 years along the line he had to return to germany to take over the family business, had a work visa for germany denied , know he has to do visa runs in the country of his birth, and now it seems he is having difficulty getting back into australia :jap:

[wolf5370]

Why wouldn't I be able to work? I have my Thai ID. When this is really not going to work, what kind of other options would I have.

Thanks

I think you are making it difficult for yourself. Just do a border run - out on German, in with Thai. If they ask why no exit stamp, show your other passport and tell them you just reeived your Thai citizenship and had to exit and re-enter. No problem. Then as a Thai you are free to do what anyother Thai does legally here.

While you are on a foreign passport/visa, myou are here as a foreigner (even if you are Thai) - the laws are too vague to specify a rare case such as yours, so do the easy thing - why make life hard?c

[Luckes]

Hi , germany does not allow residents born in germany to have twin nationalities, a few years ago there was the case of peter schubert, emigrated to australia , had to give up his german nationality to be come australian, 7 years along the line he had to return to germany to take over the family business, had a work visa for germany denied , know he has to do visa runs in the country of his birth, and now it seems he is having difficulty getting back into australia :jap:

I think you don't get it right

He was born as a German, not half German, half Austrailan.

In my case I was born as a German/Thai and have had the right since my first day. When I would get an Australian citizen, than I would have to give up my German one. That is right

[Luckes]

Why wouldn't I be able to work? I have my Thai ID. When this is really not going to work, what kind of other options would I have.

Thanks

I think you are making it difficult for yourself. Just do a border run - out on German, in with Thai. If they ask why no exit stamp, show your other passport and tell them you just reeived your Thai citizenship and had to exit and re-enter. No problem. Then as a Thai you are free to do what anyother Thai does legally here.

While you are on a foreign passport/visa, myou are here as a foreigner (even if you are Thai) - the laws are too vague to specify a rare case such as yours, so do the easy thing - why make life hard?c

Hey wolf, so far thanks a lot for the strong support.

Yeah I will do as you are suggesting, and will do it with a visarun tour group so that I will be easier coz they won't ask many questions than.

But what do you suggest on the case when I will leave next year to go back to Germany to visit my family there? I mean don't they ask when I come back for example and they see my bordingpass and I do not have a visa in it? This is the last point where I am not sure how do to it.

Thanks again for your time and efforts.

[Luckes]

Why wouldn't I be able to work? I have my Thai ID. When this is really not going to work, what kind of other options would I have.

Thanks

I think you are making it difficult for yourself. Just do a border run - out on German, in with Thai. If they ask why no exit stamp, show your other passport and tell them you just reeived your Thai citizenship and had to exit and re-enter. No problem. Then as a Thai you are free to do what anyother Thai does legally here.

While you are on a foreign passport/visa, myou are here as a foreigner (even if you are Thai) - the laws are too vague to specify a rare case such as yours, so do the easy thing - why make life hard?c

Hey wolf, so far thanks a lot for the strong support.

Yeah I will do as you are suggesting, and will do it with a visarun tour group so that I will be easier coz they won't ask many questions than.

But what do you suggest on the case when I will leave next year to go back to Germany to visit my family there? I mean don't they ask when I come back for example and they see my bordingpass and I do not have a visa in it? This is the last point where I am not sure how do to it.

Thanks again for your time and efforts.

Still wondering which different it would make when I just leave next year with my Thai PPT and not doing this visa run?