What Is The Truth About Dual Passport Departures

[maccaroni man]

my kids age 6 and 12 have thai and US passports i want to take them to new zealand but my wife tells me they must get a visa, where as a US passport allows them 90 days on arrival but all the talk about the rule change has us both confussed. anyone know the facts?

[roamer]

What rule change ? I'm just flying in and out of LOS with my daughter, dual national and we are both traveling on our UK passports.

[wolf5370]

Wife and kids all dual national Brit/Thai. Never had a problem. Check in asks to see both passports so they can confirm you have the right to land at your destination (remember its the airlines that have to pay for your immediate return if they allowed you to travel without the right to land - i.e a valid passport/visa(or exemption thereof)).

Wife just flew in and out (this week) no problems as always.

[7by7]

The procedure is simple.

Thailand to New Zealand:-

At check in with the airline, show US passport so the airline know that they can enter New Zealand. If asked why they have no Thai visa, show them their Thai passports.

At Thai passport control, show Thai passports so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in New Zealand, show immigration their US passports.

New Zealand to Thailand:-

At check in show Thai passport so the airline know that they can enter Thailand. If asked why they have no New Zealand visa, show US passport.

At New Zealand passport control, show US passport so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand show immigration their Thai passports.

There is no need to show Thai immigration their US passports at all, entering or leaving the kingdom.

My wife and daughter do this with their Thai and British passports every time we enter or leave the kingdom. We have only ever had one small problem when my daughter completed her blue immigration form in English. The Thai immigration officer made her do another one in Thai, saying "If you're Thai, fill this in in Thai!"

[roamer]

The procedure is simple.

Thailand to New Zealand:-

At check in with the airline, show US passport so the airline know that they can enter New Zealand. If asked why they have no Thai visa, show them their Thai passports.

At Thai passport control, show Thai passports so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in New Zealand, show immigration their US passports.

New Zealand to Thailand:-

At check in show Thai passport so the airline know that they can enter Thailand. If asked why they have no New Zealand visa, show US passport.

At New Zealand passport control, show US passport so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand show immigration their Thai passports.

There is no need to show Thai immigration their US passports at all, entering or leaving the kingdom.

My wife and daughter do this with their Thai and British passports every time we enter or leave the kingdom. We have only ever had one small problem when my daughter completed her blue immigration form in English. The Thai immigration officer made her do another one in Thai, saying "If you're Thai, fill this in in Thai!"

Until last year we followed same procedure. Leaving UK on British passports and entering LOS on Thai passports. When we went to leave they noticed that my wife's Thai passport had expired, it had actually expired before she even entered LOS but they either failed to notice or didn't point it out. (I know, mea culpa, but there was a lot going on in our lives last year). It hadn,t been picked up in the UK as my wife and daughter had left on British passports. OK, sorry about that but here's a valid British passport. NO. Can't leave on that because you entered on Thai passport, departure stamp has to be on same passport so you have to get new passport. But if we get new passport then the stamp won't be on same passport will it ? All to no avail so I had to leave with our daughter while the wife stayed behind to get new passport. Caused us no end of problems as I had a business trip to the US planned that had to be scrapped. To add insult to injury when she eventually left they didn't even ask to see the old passport with the stamp and immigration form. I know we are at fault for not checking the dates but just a reminder that Thai passports only valid for 5 years as opposed to the UK, 10 years, and don't expect any kindness or understanding from Thai immigration if you foul up. The wife is being bloody minded this year and using the UK passport all the way as its only a short trip so no visa required.

The immigration form is another thing....my daughter had to re write hers in English as she had used Thai and was traveling on a Thai passport, they still wanted it in English. Different experience to above.

[maccaroni man]

The procedure is simple.

Thailand to New Zealand:-

At check in with the airline, show US passport so the airline know that they can enter New Zealand. If asked why they have no Thai visa, show them their Thai passports.

At Thai passport control, show Thai passports so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in New Zealand, show immigration their US passports.

New Zealand to Thailand:-

At check in show Thai passport so the airline know that they can enter Thailand. If asked why they have no New Zealand visa, show US passport.

At New Zealand passport control, show US passport so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand show immigration their Thai passports.

There is no need to show Thai immigration their US passports at all, entering or leaving the kingdom.

My wife and daughter do this with their Thai and British passports every time we enter or leave the kingdom. We have only ever had one small problem when my daughter completed her blue immigration form in English. The Thai immigration officer made her do another one in Thai, saying "If you're Thai, fill this in in Thai!"

thanks for that info which is exactly what i told my wife buit she has had a couple of clients traveling with infants that were turned away because of no visa, hear say so who know tit but your method makes clear sence.

[thainet]

The procedure is simple.

Thailand to New Zealand:-

At check in with the airline, show US passport so the airline know that they can enter New Zealand. If asked why they have no Thai visa, show them their Thai passports.

At Thai passport control, show Thai passports so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in New Zealand, show immigration their US passports.

New Zealand to Thailand:-

At check in show Thai passport so the airline know that they can enter Thailand. If asked why they have no New Zealand visa, show US passport.

At New Zealand passport control, show US passport so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand show immigration their Thai passports.

There is no need to show Thai immigration their US passports at all, entering or leaving the kingdom.

My wife and daughter do this with their Thai and British passports every time we enter or leave the kingdom. We have only ever had one small problem when my daughter completed her blue immigration form in English. The Thai immigration officer made her do another one in Thai, saying "If you're Thai, fill this in in Thai!"

thanks for that info which is exactly what i told my wife buit she has had a couple of clients traveling with infants that were turned away because of no visa, hear say so who know tit but your method makes clear sence.

Mac Man---7by7's info is 100% correct for NZ, and it basically doesn't matter which country your other passport is from as long as you can enter NZ visa free. Remember at the SUV airport, airline requirements and Thai immigration requirements are completely different. Airline want confirmation of your validity to enter NZ (so they don't have to pay to have you repatriated) and Thai immigration are only worried that you entered, stayed and departed legally (ie: within your visa if you're an expat) or just see the Thai passport if you're a Thai citizen.

Do of course make sure both passports are valid,

[Maestro]

Until last year we followed same procedure. Leaving UK on British passports and entering LOS on Thai passports. When we went to leave they noticed that my wife's Thai passport had expired, it had actually expired before she even entered LOS but they either failed to notice or didn't point it out. (I know, mea culpa, but there was a lot going on in our lives last year). It hadn,t been picked up in the UK as my wife and daughter had left on British passports. OK, sorry about that but here's a valid British passport. NO. Can't leave on that because you entered on Thai passport, departure stamp has to be on same passport so you have to get new passport. But if we get new passport then the stamp won't be on same passport will it ? All to no avail...To add insult to injury when she eventually left they didn't even ask to see the old passport with the stamp and immigration form

You must have misunderstood something.

You see, for a Thai immigration officer entry and exit stamps are like double-entry bookkeeping where every debit entry must be matched with a credit entry, and vice-versa. You wife was not allowed to leave with her British passport because she had not entered Thailand with that passport.

In a foreign passport the entry stamp (start of the visit in Thailand) must be matched with the exit stamp (end of the visit)

In a Thai passport the exit stamp (start of the trip abroad) must be matched with the entry stamp (end of the trip abroad, return to Thailand)

In both cases, the start and the end of the event must be recorded in the same passport. This is why a foreigner, when he gets a new passport from his embassy in Thailand, must go to the immigration office to get the arrival stamp in his old passport transferred to his new passport. Likewise, if a Thai gets his passport replaced while abroad, at a Thai embassy, he must on his return present also the old passport because that one has his last Thai exit stamp in it. A friend of mine, Thai/British dual national living in Britain, got a new Thai passport from the Thai embassy in London and on his trip to Thailand presented this new passport. “Where is your other passport?” asked the immigration officer and he did not mean my friend’s British passport but his old Thai passport. It would not have been the end of the world if he had left his old passport behind in England; the immigration officer had his last exit from Thailand on his computer screen and probably would simply have made an annotation in the new passport, the books (exit and entry records) would have been balanced.

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Maestro

[NaChampain]

Until last year we followed same procedure. Leaving UK on British passports and entering LOS on Thai passports. When we went to leave they noticed that my wife's Thai passport had expired, it had actually expired before she even entered LOS but they either failed to notice or didn't point it out. (I know, mea culpa, but there was a lot going on in our lives last year). It hadn,t been picked up in the UK as my wife and daughter had left on British passports. OK, sorry about that but here's a valid British passport. NO. Can't leave on that because you entered on Thai passport, departure stamp has to be on same passport so you have to get new passport. But if we get new passport then the stamp won't be on same passport will it ? All to no avail...To add insult to injury when she eventually left they didn't even ask to see the old passport with the stamp and immigration form

You must have misunderstood something.

You see, for a Thai immigration officer entry and exit stamps are like double-entry bookkeeping where every debit entry must be matched with a credit entry, and vice-versa. You wife was not allowed to leave with her British passport because she had not entered Thailand with that passport.

In a foreign passport the entry stamp (start of the visit in Thailand) must be matched with the exit stamp (end of the visit)

In a Thai passport the exit stamp (start of the trip abroad) must be matched with the entry stamp (end of the trip abroad, return to Thailand)

In both cases, the start and the end of the event must be recorded in the same passport. This is why a foreigner, when he gets a new passport from his embassy in Thailand, he must go to the immigration office to get the arrival stamp in his old passport transferred to his new passport. Likewise, if a Thai gets his passport replaced while abroad, at a Thai embassy, he must on his return present also the old passport because that one has his last Thai exit stamp in it. A friend of mine, Thai/British dual national living in Britain, got a new Thai passport from the Thai embassy in London and on his trip to Thailand presented this new passport. "Where is your other passport?" asked the immigration officer and he did not mean my friend's British passport but his old Thai passport. It would not have been the end of the world if he had left his old passport behind in England; the immigration officer had his last exit from Thailand on his computer screen and probably would simply have made an annotation in the new passport, the books (exit and entry records) would have been balanced.

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Maestro

I agree with Maestro. I travel on a total of six passports. Three different nationalities and two sets of each. Some places do not want you in if you have some other country's stamp. Other reasons is that some countries take up to three pages in your passport per visit, which makes an extra passport convenient. Point is - follow the logic: What you got in on - you need to get out on. Then it really isn't difficult.

[Maestro]

...When we went to leave they noticed that my wife's Thai passport had expired, it had actually expired before she even entered LOS but they either failed to notice or didn't point it out...

An expired Thai passport is still valid for the return entry into Thailand.

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Maestro

[Maestro]

...The wife is being bloody minded this year and using the UK passport all the way as its only a short trip so no visa required...

Nothing wrong with her using her UK passport to enter and exit Thailand, but you may want to read this:

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/360338-immigration-directive-regarding-dual-nationality/page__p__3548522#entry3548522

If your wife comes up against an equally bloody-minded immigration officer (there are a few of them at Bangkok airport) he will act on this instruction he received from immigration headquarters:

(2) In the case of a Thai observed holding two nationalities the officer is required to report the case to Special

Branch so they can make a case to the Interior Ministry for the publication in the Royal Gazette of an order

revoking the individual’s Thai nationality.

Under current laws there is little to no danger of her losing her Thai nationality but she would have some hassle and might need a lawyer to fight her case. (Bloody-mindedness can have its price)

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Maestro

[noahvail]

This link might help you show your wife the regs for entering NZ: http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/7920.htm

[roamer]

...The wife is being bloody minded this year and using the UK passport all the way as its only a short trip so no visa required...

Nothing wrong with her using her UK passport to enter and exit Thailand, but you may want to read this:

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/360338-immigration-directive-regarding-dual-nationality/page__p__3548522#entry3548522

If your wife comes up against an equally bloody-minded immigration officer (there are a few of them at Bangkok airport) he will act on this instruction he received from immigration headquarters:

(2) In the case of a Thai observed holding two nationalities the officer is required to report the case to Special

Branch so they can make a case to the Interior Ministry for the publication in the Royal Gazette of an order

revoking the individual’s Thai nationality.

Under current laws there is little to no danger of her losing her Thai nationality but she would have some hassle and might need a lawyer to fight her case. (Bloody-mindedness can have its price)

--

Maestro

Maestro, I appreciate your expertise on these matters. I don't dispute anything you have said. At the end of the day we are at fault. I'm" Mr make sure you do everything by the book". When we travel everything is to hand. If a passport or drivers licence or credit card is lost its all stored on line, you get the picture ? Even so we made the error. I don't want to get into the whole saga of it but we eventually got the concession from Immigration that my wife's passport should have been canceled on entry as expired, allowing her the option to enter on her UK passport, or entering on the Thai passport knowing it had to be renewed. They acknowledged that the failure of the immigration officer to cancel the expired passport should have enabled her to leave on the UK passport. A little too late, this was several weeks later and the fact we got any concession at all was no doubt due to the fact that she worked for the FCO and it was dealt with by them.

You are absolutely right, if you meet a bloody minded immigration officer etc then you have problems. However my wife is equally strong minded but this time better prepared with the right numbers on speed dial.Whilst she respects her Thai heritage this is one Thai that is appreciative of what the UK has given her and if push came to shove she knows what passport she would choose. I can't argue with that.

[samran]

The procedure is simple.

Thailand to New Zealand:-

At check in with the airline, show US passport so the airline know that they can enter New Zealand. If asked why they have no Thai visa, show them their Thai passports.

At Thai passport control, show Thai passports so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in New Zealand, show immigration their US passports.

New Zealand to Thailand:-

At check in show Thai passport so the airline know that they can enter Thailand. If asked why they have no New Zealand visa, show US passport.

At New Zealand passport control, show US passport so immigration know they have not overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand show immigration their Thai passports.

There is no need to show Thai immigration their US passports at all, entering or leaving the kingdom.

My wife and daughter do this with their Thai and British passports every time we enter or leave the kingdom. We have only ever had one small problem when my daughter completed her blue immigration form in English. The Thai immigration officer made her do another one in Thai, saying "If you're Thai, fill this in in Thai!"

thanks for that info which is exactly what i told my wife buit she has had a couple of clients traveling with infants that were turned away because of no visa, hear say so who know tit but your method makes clear sence.

the airline would have turned them away, not immigration. As said, the airline gets fined and cops the cost of the return flight if a passenger doesn't have the proper visa/rights to enter the country of final destination.

My kids have Thai/Australian/NZ citizenship and so long as the airline knows this, they issue you with the boarding pass. As far as immigration are concerned, so long as you have a boarding pass and immigration form filled in, they'll stamp you out. The don't bother checking to see if you have a visa for the final destination as that is the airlines job.

[huawei]

Hi

Can someone help me please; this is a variation on the same theme.

My daughter born in the UK entered on a UK passport.

At the age of 12 acquired a thai passport ID card and house registration we were told by immigration that we no longer had to do the yearly extension.

We have not been out of the country for 6 years.

She is still under 20.

She has a new UK passport (no stamps) and a current valid Thai passport.

So came in on an old UK passport does she therefore have to leave on the new UK passport and thus pay the 20k overstay even though she is a Thai citizen and has all the necessary papers as there is no extension of stay stamps.

Do I have to transfer the original entry stamp from 6 years ago into the new UK passport, even though it has not been updated annually?

I am confused as to what to do before we leave. What does she present to the custom officer.? Do i just pay the fine?

Thanks.

[Maestro]

... I don't want to get into the whole saga of it but we eventually got the concession from Immigration that my wife's passport should have been canceled on entry as expired, allowing her the option to enter on her UK passport, or entering on the Thai passport knowing it had to be renewed. They acknowledged that the failure of the immigration officer to cancel the expired passport should have enabled her to leave on the UK passport...

I find this interesting, because part of it is contrary to what I believe to be correct procedure. This is my understanding of the immigration procedures in such situation:

Wrong: The immigration officer at the entry point has neither the responsibility nor the authority to cancel (invalidate) an expired Thai passport.

Correct: The immigration officer at the entry point could have drawn your wife’s attention to the fact that her passport had expired, but he had no responsibility to do so.

Correct: Your wife had the choice, without having to be told so by the immigration officer, of entering with her expired Thai passport or with her UK passport.

Correct: Had your wife entered with her UK passport, immigration might have allowed her to leave with her new, valid Thai passport, in which case the immigration record would have shown the UK citizen Mrs. Roamer as being still in Thailand. Possible and likely problem on a subsequent attempted entry in Thailand with her UK passport.

Wrong: Had your wife entered with her expired Thai passport, immigration would not have allowed her to leave with her UK passport because the last Thai stamp in this passport was an exit stamp, not an entry stamp. As there would have been no UK citizen Mrs. Roamer in Thailand, there would have been no such UK citizen to be stamped out of Thailand.

[Maestro]

...My daughter born in the UK entered on a UK passport.

At the age of 12 acquired a thai passport ID card and house registration we were told by immigration that we no longer had to do the yearly extension.

We have not been out of the country for 6 years.

She is still under 20.

She has a new UK passport (no stamps) and a current valid Thai passport.

So came in on an old UK passport does she therefore have to leave on the new UK passport and thus pay the 20k overstay even though she is a Thai citizen and has all the necessary papers as there is no extension of stay stamps.

Do I have to transfer the original entry stamp from 6 years ago into the new UK passport, even though it has not been updated annually? ...

If I read your post correctly, your daughter was born outside Thailand, presumably in the UK, and contrary to what parents usually do in such case you did not get her a Thai passport from the Thai embassy in the country of birth. Her current Thai passport, obtained in Thailand, is her first Thai passport.

This is an exceptional case (still disliked by Thai immigration) where a person who entered on a foreign passport will obviously need to leave on her Thai passport. You say that immigration is already aware of the situation. When they told you that she no longer has to do yearly extensions, did they enter a note in her UK passport to close out her stay in Thailand as a UK citizen?

I believe that your daughter will have no problem at all leaving with her Thai passport without further ado, but if you wish you can visit the immigration office with her to ask them if they need to enter any information in their computers and put a note in her UK and/or Thai passports to show that she is no longer in Thailand as a UK citizen.

[huawei]

...My daughter born in the UK entered on a UK passport.

At the age of 12 acquired a thai passport ID card and house registration we were told by immigration that we no longer had to do the yearly extension.

We have not been out of the country for 6 years.

She is still under 20.

She has a new UK passport (no stamps) and a current valid Thai passport.

So came in on an old UK passport does she therefore have to leave on the new UK passport and thus pay the 20k overstay even though she is a Thai citizen and has all the necessary papers as there is no extension of stay stamps.

Do I have to transfer the original entry stamp from 6 years ago into the new UK passport, even though it has not been updated annually? ...

If I read your post correctly, your daughter was born outside Thailand, presumably in the UK, and contrary to what parents usually do in such case you did not get her a Thai passport from the Thai embassy in the country of birth. Her current Thai passport, obtained in Thailand, is her first Thai passport.

This is an exceptional case (still disliked by Thai immigration) where a person who entered on a foreign passport will obviously need to leave on her Thai passport. You say that immigration is already aware of the situation. When they told you that she no longer has to do yearly extensions, did they enter a note in her UK passport to close out her stay in Thailand as a UK citizen?

I believe that your daughter will have no problem at all leaving with her Thai passport without further ado, but if you wish you can visit the immigration office with her to ask them if they need to enter any information in their computers and put a note in her UK and/or Thai passports to show that she is no longer in Thailand as a UK citizen.

Thank you for your reply.

What you stated is correct. However when we went to do the renewal after securing a Thai passport, immigration didn't do anything formally, they just said that there was no need to do it, so nothing was entered or noted anywhere.

I will follow your advise and talk to the immigration about updating any records if necessary as that makes complete sense and i don't want any surprses when leaving.

Again many thanks, back when my daughter was born nearly 19 years ago i was told that dual nationality was not allowed to a child born of a thai mother and particularly as she was born in the UK at that time i gave it no more thought.

Much appreciated.

[TerryLH]

"...back when my daughter was born nearly 19 years ago i was told that dual nationality was not allowed to a child born of a thai mother and particularly as she was born in the UK..."

That would have been right when the law was changed.

My kid just turned 18, and it was just before they were born that the law changed.