Ownership Of House / Land After A Death

[Monkey Boy]

Hope some body can help with a query I have. A friend of mine recently passed away.

His parents are trying to sort his estate out but it looks like he didn't have a will and they don't seem to be getting anywhere while trying to sort his estate out here in Thailand. Hence they have asked if I know what happens with regards property if a farang dies overseas.

He had a house in one of the large estates near Sukhumvit Road, Pattaya.

He had a Thai partner/wife and a young family.

In the UK I guess probate would be the way forward, but this isn't the UK.

Does anybody know if the house will automatically revert to his Thai family? Will it revert to his next of kin in the UK, who will then have to sell the property?

Any answers (please civil ones relating to the matter) would be appreciated.

[mallyrd]

There will be others in the know to follow my comments.

You said "partner/wife". Which is it.

Without a will in which he has clearly left part, or all, of his estate to members of family in the UK then it is unlikely that they will benefit.

Generally matters such as this will be decided by the Thai courts. If he was legally married then the estate will pass to his Thai wife and children.

Edited August 5, 2010 by mallyrd

[bellachg]

There will be others in the know to follow my comments.

You said "partner/wife". Which is it.

Without a will in which he has clearly left part, or all, of his estate to members of family in the UK then it is unlikely that they will benefit.

Generally matters such as this will be decided by the Thai courts. If he was legally married then the estate will pass to his Thai wife and children.

First of all as a foreigner he cannot own land, so the land is probably in his wife's name, so no issue, as she is still alive.

The rest of his estate, by Thai law, since he has no will, will pass to his wife 50% and to his children, if any 50% in equal shares

[wandrinstar]

Much depends if he took a 30 year Leese or not,and if he married here.The Kids his bloodline ?..Without that info no one CAN ANSWER CORRECTLY.

[Mario2008]

Information on Thai wills: http://www.thailawonline.com/en/family/inheritance-and-wills.html

[Monkey Boy]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Unfortunately he wasn't married to his Thai partner but do have a couple of kids between them.

Again thanks for the comments.

[stgrhe]

It can not be repeated enough how important it is to have written wills with our spouses whether married or not.

[InterestedObserver]

Any lease died along with your friend. If he ever legalized the children at the local Amphur they would inherit something. How was ownership of the house and land set up? It all will have to be sorted out in the Thai courts.

Edited August 7, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[huawei]

The parents need to get a lawyer and apply as joint administrators of the estate. So that either one can be present if the other is not available.

They should do this immediately as the lawyer will have to submit to the court to commence probate and there maybe restriction on court availability.

As the marriage is not orginally registered by thai law the direct assets owned by the deceased { inc. shares in the company) will be 25% to each parent and 25% to each child.

The other big down side to this is that there is no trust law to protect what is inherited by the children. All aseets inherited by them will be monitored by the court with the wife or elected adult as the custodian until they are 20. Access to such funds will need approval by the court.

Lawyer fees around 50k, plus additional fees for sorting out assets ( company)

Good luck, my sympathy to the parents. They have lost a son, are in a foreign country with different language and legal processes, not easy at the best of times.

As mentioned above, will, will, will..

[Monkey Boy]

Thanks for the feedback folks. Most helpful.

As others have noted, it shows that we all should have a will in place. Something that I need to address as well.

Thanks again

[InterestedObserver]

1. Correct, the parents need a good Thai lawyer to start probate of the estate.

2. Since there was no legal marriage, the legal status of the children under Thai family law has to be determined by the court.

3. Company, what company. The property could just as easily have been in his Thai partner's name, thus not part of the estate.

.

[huawei]

If the guys name is on the thai birth certificates then he is recognised as the father, mother will just need to re-confirm as part of probate procedings. No need for the court to revalidate.If not, then action should be taken prior to any court procedings to prove such.

Point taken on the company. Clearly if it is in her name then simple, not part of the estate.Should make probate that much easier.

Anyway, hope this points being discussed help the parents.

[InterestedObserver]

If the guys name is on the thai birth certificates then he is recognised as the father, mother will just need to re-confirm as part of probate procedings. No need for the court to revalidate.If not, then action should be taken prior to any court procedings to prove such.

Point taken on the company. Clearly if it is in her name then simple, not part of the estate.Should make probate that much easier.

Anyway, hope this points being discussed help the parents.

The mother and father were not legally married; therefore, under the Civil and Commercial Code, Section 1547 the father must legalize the children at the local Amphur before they (the children) are recognized as his. I acknowledge that Thai probate law may not be the same as Thai family law, in either case it's up to the Court to decide.

[huawei]

If the guys name is on the thai birth certificates then he is recognised as the father, mother will just need to re-confirm as part of probate procedings. No need for the court to revalidate.If not, then action should be taken prior to any court procedings to prove such.

Point taken on the company. Clearly if it is in her name then simple, not part of the estate.Should make probate that much easier.

Anyway, hope this points being discussed help the parents.

The mother and father were not legally married; therefore, under the Civil and Commercial Code, Section 1547 the father must legalize the children at the local Amphur before they (the children) are recognized as his. I acknowledge that Thai probate law may not be the same as Thai family law, in either case it's up to the Court to decide.

As the father has now deceased can the mother do that alone at the Amphur or as you say will there be a need to go to family court first?

[thamuangfarang]

You friend has died Intestate and his Estate will be distributed under the laws of Intestacy. It sounds like there are two secenarios, one in the UK (England and Wales?) and one in Thailand. The Thai scenario depends on what assets were registered in his name, if any, but I think the comments above generally set the scene.

However if your friend was domiciled in England. His parents need to apply for Letters of Administration to release his assets and settle any debts. Having obtained this you follow the Intestacy rules to realise any assets.

Unfortunately the girlfriend does not benefit from the English (?) Estate because they were not married. The extent to which his Thai children benefit will need some investigation. But if they can benefit, they will have to wait until they 18 years old.

I am not sure I am helping Monkey Boy with these answers, but his situation does highlight the importance of owning valid Wills.

To avoid these issues it is imperative to make two Wills. A Thai Will to cover any immoveable assets in Thailand (ie the house and land) and because of Thai law, this probably amounts to very few. A second Will is required for anybody domiciled outside Thailand to provide for their 'home' Estate. The second Will can also refer to any moveable assets (bank accounts etc) owned in Thailand, making it slightly easier to release assets. However, it is vital to make sure that each Will refers to other and they do not have the effect of revoking the other. Without this the Wills are revoked and the Intestacy laws take over. In other words, back to square one.

There must be several members who are not domiciled in Thailand but their spouses / civil partners / girlfriends are (like Monkey Boy's friend?). The only safe way to ensure your spouse and family are adequately provided for, is to have a valid Will which states exactly who you wish to benefit from your Estate, by how much and when.

It is also important that you appoint an Executor who you trust implicitly to carry out the wishes for you in the country where your Estate is located. Again if you die intestate, the choice of Executor is uncertain. If your spouse and family are living in Thailand, and the Estate is in England, you can expect the situation to rapidly develop into a hopeless, frustrating mess leaving the family in Thailand with financial problems.

Other points to remember are:

Many of us already have children we wish to provide for in our Wills from earlier relationships. This is an issue often overlooked, but one that create all sorts of problems and arguements if a valid Will has not been made.

A well thought Will can be useful to create a trust for children, which if properly administered, is a great way to meet your children's education and welfare. It can also minimise potential Inheritance Tax issues.

[InterestedObserver]

As the father has now deceased can the mother do that alone at the Amphur or as you say will there be a need to go to family court first?

The father is deceased, therefore the only remedy is through the Thai courts. DNA testing would probably be required.