Here Is A Math Quiz For You

[thailandbluegrass]

Ok here is a quiz for all you mathematicians out there.

I am diabetic and I take 2 kinds of insulin every morning and the same dose in the evening. The 2 insulin’s are known as “R” and “N”.

I take 30 units of “N” and 15 units of “R”.

I mix these together so I only need to put 1 needle inside my body so that is a total of 45 units (30-“N” and 15-“R) in 1 syringe. The problem is that each time I use a syringe, it first has to pass through 2 vial caps and then into my skin. Passing it through the 2 vials dulls the needle a little so that when I put it into my skin it hurts a little

Now, I want to pre-mix this into 1 vial so that the original syringe I will use only has to pass through 1 vial and then strait into my skin.

Now here is where it gets complex. I assume you already have your pen and paper and your calculator out/

If I put 30 units of “N” into the spare vial and 15 units of “R” that is a ratio of

1 : 0.5 (1 unit to ½ unit) right? Or 90 units to 45 units.

So we can assume that I can fill the 300 unit vial with 200 units of “N” and 100 units of “R” right?

Now, I still want to take my original dose of 30u “N” and 15u “R”.

But………… if I draw out 45 units does it still give me the ratio of “1 : 0.5” ?

If you agree then I should live a good healthy life. However if you disagree, what do you think I should be drawing out?

[cwldanny]

I had trouble falling asleep so I decided to check the Bangkok forum on Thaivisa.

I think I will go back to bed now.

[BngkkB]

Use one needle to draw the medicine from the Vials. Change the needle for the injection. Each time a needle passes through a Vial top it dulls it. So a fresh needle for the injection into the skin and your problems are solved.

[bolx]

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

[RedNIvar]

If the viscosity of both the fluids are the same, then your math works and there should be no problem.

I think the extra needle solution above works as well. Saves you the trouble of figuring this out.

[Patron]

When my mathematician friend is constipated, he works his problem out with a pencil.

[robblok]

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

Good awnser

I would like to add needles are real cheap here in Thailand I can get a box with 100 for only 78 baht. If i have to inject myself with something i use 1 needle to suck .. and one to inject.

[pmcd8243]

R (Regular) is a clear solution and N(NPH) is a milky solution. If you try to mix in large quantities in advance it will separate and you will have no idea how much of each type you have in the syringe. Also you will increase the possibility of contaminating your solutions. As for changing the needles most insulin syringes have needles that are not changeable as the amt of fluid in the lumen of the needle is included in the scale of the dosage on the syringe. I would recommend against pre mixing large quantities. Have you looked into 70-30 insulin?

P

[thailandbluegrass]

R (Regular) is a clear solution and N(NPH) is a milky solution. If you try to mix in large quantities in advance it will separate and you will have no idea how much of each type you have in the syringe. Also you will increase the possibility of contaminating your solutions. As for changing the needles most insulin syringes have needles that are not changeable as the amt of fluid in the lumen of the needle is included in the scale of the dosage on the syringe. I would recommend against pre mixing large quantities. Have you looked into 70-30 insulin?

P

Hahahahaha,

Yes I have been diabetic for 27 years so I am familiar with the 70/30 Mixtard. but this is just a little to much of the NPH. This is why I create my own mixture.

pmcd8243; I'm sorry to say but the mixture of 70/30 is exactly the same as per "mixing" of insulins the way I do it. You just need to shake the vial before you draw the insulin.

robblok

Posted Today, 11:52

bolx, on 2010-08-07 06:41, said:

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

Good awnser

I would like to add needles are real cheap here in Thailand I can get a box with 100 for only 78 baht. If i have to inject myself with something i use 1 needle to suck .. and one to inject.

How can you use one needle to suck and the other to inject? hahahah if you suck with one needle it means that the solution is in that needle so explain how you would inject with yet another needle?

BngkkB

Posted Today, 01:42

Use one needle to draw the medicine from the Vials. Change the needle for the injection. Each time a needle passes through a Vial top it dulls it. So a fresh needle for the injection into the skin and your problems are solved.

Very true, however we are forgetting the mail question, after this is done and I draw 45 units of the mixeddoes it give me my 35 units of "N" and my 15 units of "R" or does this mean that I have now 22.5 units of "N" and 22.5 units of "R" ?

The thing here is that I live in Sakon Nakhon and here you can only get syringes with the "NEEDLE" factor at a 29 guage. I am a very slim man and this is like a horse needle for me. In Bkk you can get the BD Extra short needles at 30 guage. However you CAN get the the small needles at 30 guage that fit on the Nova Pen. So I have a Nova Pen here and use the old vials to mix nboth of my insulins into the Pen vial and its great.

The mathamatical quiz is still the point of this post. hehe.

[thailandbluegrass]

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

Good awnser

I would like to add needles are real cheap here in Thailand I can get a box with 100 for only 78 baht. If i have to inject myself with something i use 1 needle to suck .. and one to inject.

Sir,

I have been in Thailand for 10 years strait and have bought hundreds of thousand of needles here. The cheapest you can get a decent syringe for is 4 baht per 1. So 100 needles is still 400 baht. Please tell me where you get these 100 needles for 78 baht? I like to use the BD brand with the "Extra short needle" at 30 guage but even the horse needles are minimum 4 baht per needle

[soundman]

Topic doesn't appear to have anything to do with Bkk.

I am going to pass this topic on to the medical forum as it appears to be dealing with medicine doses.

Moved.

[Sheryl]

The math isn't necessary, because no way should you do this.

Even giving it a vigorous shake before hand there is no guarantee the 2 solutions will be equally dispersed. In fact they almost surely won't be.

You'll be playing a roulette game with your dosages. Please do not even consider doing this.

Change needles as suggested by others.

[t.s]

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

Good awnser

I would like to add needles are real cheap here in Thailand I can get a box with 100 for only 78 baht. If i have to inject myself with something i use 1 needle to suck .. and one to inject.

steroids?

[thailandbluegrass]

The math isn't necessary, because no way should you do this.

Even giving it a vigorous shake before hand there is no guarantee the 2 solutions will be equally dispersed. In fact they almost surely won't be.

You'll be playing a roulette game with your dosages. Please do not even consider doing this.

Change needles as suggested by others.

But what do you think these manufactured mixes are? say 70/30 or 50/50 etc? They are the SAME thing and have been around as long as insulin has. So yes the math is necessary.

By the way everyone, the answer is YES if I draw 45 units with the mixture I spoke about it will still give me the 30 units of "N" and the 15 units of "R"

[Sheryl]

The manufactured mixes are specifgically designed so that they have the same osmolarity and will mix evenly once shaken -- and extensively tested to see that they do so.

2 separately manufactured preparations mixed together is a whole other ballgame.

[thailandbluegrass]

The manufactured mixes are specifgically designed so that they have the same osmolarity and will mix evenly once shaken -- and extensively tested to see that they do so.

2 separately manufactured preparations mixed together is a whole other ballgame.

Iam sorry but you are wrong here. If you buy lets just say "Humulin" brand you can buy their mixture of lets say 70/30, it still contains exactly the same solution of NPH and Regular. There is NO difference what so ever sir.

If you buy the less expensive "generic" brands then you are talking some less quality as in "you get what you pay for".

[Puccini]

thailandbluegrass, the information you have provided is insufficient.

1. How many units/mLdoes the product "R" have?
   
2. How many units/mLdoes the product "N" have?
   
3. What is the capacity in mL of the container to which you refer as "the 300 unit vial"?

[Puccini]

...If you buy lets just say "Humulin" brand you can buy their mixture of lets say 70/30, it still contains exactly the same solution of NPH and Regular. There is NO difference what so ever sir...

Is it possible that you meant "concentration" when you wrote "solution"? The way medicines are labelled I believe it is impossible to tell whether two different products are exactly the same solution, have the same osmolarity.

[robblok]

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

Good awnser

I would like to add needles are real cheap here in Thailand I can get a box with 100 for only 78 baht. If i have to inject myself with something i use 1 needle to suck .. and one to inject.

Sir,

I have been in Thailand for 10 years strait and have bought hundreds of thousand of needles here. The cheapest you can get a decent syringe for is 4 baht per 1. So 100 needles is still 400 baht. Please tell me where you get these 100 needles for 78 baht? I like to use the BD brand with the "Extra short needle" at 30 guage but even the horse needles are minimum 4 baht per needle

I got them in victory monyment once.. 78 baht for 1 1/2 inch 24G and something like that too for 1 1/2 18g

[robblok]

sounds right to me, assuming the two liquids stay mixed together properly over a period of time.

Good awnser

I would like to add needles are real cheap here in Thailand I can get a box with 100 for only 78 baht. If i have to inject myself with something i use 1 needle to suck .. and one to inject.

steroids?

Could be but also vitamin B is injected(was talking about that) (I like to think it gives better results then normal tablets) Also HGH could be injected (havent tried that yet). I was planning on that but the prices are a tad too expensive. And according to people you need to take it for a long time before it helps to promote fat loss.

Edited August 9, 2010 by robblok

[robblok]

thailandblue grass....

1 siringe

2 needles..

You suck it with a big needle and the syringe and then switch needles (syringe is still filled) so i dont see the problem the liquid is in the syringe not needle.

[Sheryl]

The manufactured mixes are specifgically designed so that they have the same osmolarity and will mix evenly once shaken -- and extensively tested to see that they do so.

2 separately manufactured preparations mixed together is a whole other ballgame.

Iam sorry but you are wrong here. If you buy lets just say "Humulin" brand you can buy their mixture of lets say 70/30, it still contains exactly the same solution of NPH and Regular. There is NO difference what so ever sir.

If you buy the less expensive "generic" brands then you are talking some less quality as in "you get what you pay for".

I do not follow the above. Generic or brand name have nothing to do with this.

If you buy a commercial preparation of mixed short-acting and long/intermediate acting insulin, the preparation has beebn dsxeveloped such that the two constituents will mix thoroughly and evenly.

If you buy 2 separate products and mix them there is no such assurrance. It is not just a question of the active ingrediants, it is also of the solvent

[robblok]

The manufactured mixes are specifgically designed so that they have the same osmolarity and will mix evenly once shaken -- and extensively tested to see that they do so.

2 separately manufactured preparations mixed together is a whole other ballgame.

Iam sorry but you are wrong here. If you buy lets just say "Humulin" brand you can buy their mixture of lets say 70/30, it still contains exactly the same solution of NPH and Regular. There is NO difference what so ever sir.

If you buy the less expensive "generic" brands then you are talking some less quality as in "you get what you pay for".

I do not follow the above. Generic or brand name have nothing to do with this.

If you buy a commercial preparation of mixed short-acting and long/intermediate acting insulin, the preparation has beebn dsxeveloped such that the two constituents will mix thoroughly and evenly.

If you buy 2 separate products and mix them there is no such assurrance. It is not just a question of the active ingrediants, it is also of the solvent

I have to agree here with sheryl, i myself would not risk my life on it. You really don't know how well the stuff mixes. In the past i mixed solids (powders) and that goes ok as long as they are similar in size of grain. However this was no medial stuff and my life did not depend on it, better just to switch needles really much safer.