Christian Missionaries In Chiang Mai

[fcgprg]

These people are no more than leaches on the people theay are supposed to be helping .Leave the thais alone and go home .

[jaideeguy]

These people are no more than leaches on the people theay are supposed to be helping .Leave the thais alone and go home .

AH-MEN

[Earl]

Where do you draw the line Eek? What if they were radical Islamists doing the conversions for benefits? Would that be OK? How about a cult? Many people including me believe the Mormons ARE a cult and they are very active here. I am not Christian but making getting help CONDITIONAL on conversion can't be very Christian (in the purest sense, which is of course hard to find these days).

There are a LOT of Mormons living here; both farang and converted Thais. Many live right here in the moobaan. There are also many Jehovah's Witness here; Thai and farang.

There are about 16,000 Mormons in Thailand. For an official history and demography of the Mormons go to http://www.ldschurch...n-Thailand.html It tells of the infamous incident where two Mormon missionaries crawled up on a statue of a Buddha and took pictures. This happened in 1972 and the two (of course there were two) were jailed for six months.

[Earl]

Where do you draw the line Eek? What if they were radical Islamists doing the conversions for benefits? Would that be OK? How about a cult? Many people including me believe the Mormons ARE a cult and they are very active here. I am not Christian but making getting help CONDITIONAL on conversion can't be very Christian (in the purest sense, which is of course hard to find these days).

There are a LOT of Mormons living here; both farang and converted Thais. Many live right here in the moobaan. There are also many Jehovah's Witness here; Thai and farang.

There are many missionaries in Laos though under many guises, English teachers primarily.

[orang37]

Sawadee Khrup, ThaiVisa Chiang Mai Friends,

We think one historical factor in "Christian Missionaries to the Hill-Tribes in Thailand," is, in the context of the fact they were nearly totally unsuccessful in converting Thai Buddhists: a geo-political motive. And they were "nuisances" in Bangkok, often disciplined by the later Thai Kings.

After the restoration of Lanna, and British subjugation of Burma, Chiang Mai, and Lanna, areas required constant Royal administrative intervention in disputes between Burmese (who claimed to be British subjects) and British logging with teakwood concessions negotiated with the still ruling Jao (King) of Chiang Mai, and other northern nobles, in the time period before the total installation of the Monthon system, and the replacement of local nobility (allowed to carry on with their "cermonial" title and functions until they died off) with well-trained central Thai administrators. This intervention was mandated by appropriate concerns over the possible expansion of British colonial territory if these disputes (where the British were often mercilessly cheated, and robbed) led to military action by the British.

We would hypothesize that the great Thai Kings saw every benefit to having a bunch of influential white missionaries way up in the fringe areas, doing whatever, and that also took them away from being nuisances in the power center (Bangkok where there were many instances of certain missionaries being forbidden to preach).

We have no animus toward the Christian faith, or its preachers, or followers (our human component was briefly, literally, "dipped" into the southern Baptist flavour of Christianity as a young man, but was able to extricate himself with minimal brain damage). We respect the teaching of the anti-materialist Jewish mystic, possibly skilled hypnotist and magician, possibly former Essene ascetic, swarthy, politically rebellious, anti-Roman nationalist, Yeshua bin Jusef, of course fully knowing that his teachings were totally "repackaged" by Paul (aka Saul of Tarsus) the Gentile to be marketed to the gentile world incorporating Paul's earlier exposure to Gnostic mysticism and philosophy.

God bless the Missionaries, no matter where they shop, or what they drive. Considering the damage done to this country by Jesuits in the reign of King Narai, we're happy to see the local reps of that faith today NOT being ascetics.

We've had the privilege of knowing personally Dr. Lauran Bethell, who for many years helped many hill-tribe women escape being sold into prostitution (the Akka woman we loved, and still love, now married to an Australian Christian man, being one of her proteges). We experienced Dr. Lauran as an epitome of what selfless service and spirituality is, and it is our humble belief that it is persons like her, or, in the case of Thai Buddhism, Buddhdhasa Bhikku, that "recreate" the "true meaning of their religions.

We have to admit, flawed spiritual worms that we are, that when we, by accident, run across web-sites like this one: http://jasonruggles.com/2009/06/09/leelawadee/

We giggle.

best, ~o:37;

[amexpat]

We have to admit, flawed spiritual worms that we are, that when we, by accident, run across web-sites like this one: http://jasonruggles..../09/leelawadee/

We giggle.

Then you will bust a gut when you see this one. It goes on for all eternity, almost.

www.landoverbaptist.org/

.

[uptheos]

Why not Chiang Mai?

If they can find the poor sods in the middle of the Amazon rain forest's, then Chiang Mai will be a piece of cake.

I wonder how many people, who once lived in relative freedom from fear of the afterlife - now believe that because big brother is watching their every move, this 'loving god' might one day cast them into a burning hel_l for eternity......more horrific than anything their own minds could ever have conceived prior to meeting missionaries?

As Bill Maher remarked on the first commandments being about a jealous god..........."c'mon, that's pathetic - I know PEOPLE that have got over jealousy".

[StevieH]

As Bill Maher remarked on the first commandments being about a jealous god..........."c'mon, that's pathetic - I know PEOPLE that have got over jealousy".

hehe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Many are nice people, or at least no worse than all the sexpats I usually hang out with. Who cares if they're actually doing good; they're enjoying Thailand just like everyone else. I can get around the hypocrisy of saying you're here for one thing but actually living the good life; that's not exactly uncommon in sexpat or NGO or teacher circles either.

And my daughter gets to play with lots of blonde haired blue eyed perfect English speaking kids her age.

Edited August 9, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[gotlost]

Many are nice people, or at least no worse than all the sexpats I usually hang out with. Who cares if they're actually doing good; they're enjoying Thailand just like everyone else. I can get around the hypocrisy of saying you're here for one thing but actually living the good life; that's not exactly uncommon in sexpat or NGO or teacher circles either.

And my daughter gets to play with lots of blonde haired blue eyed perfect English speaking kids her age.

I have to agree with WTK on this. I have a school by my house the wife has adopted as her pet project to help. All the kids are orphans, 300 plus, and it is supported by a christian group from Australia. When WE are at the school or they pass our home they have never tried to convert or hazel us and that is the only requirement that I have ever enforced. I still see my friends some are sexpats, teachers and NGO's all at lady bars in town.

[garyh]

Here is an example of some of the "good work" done by these so called people.

Edited August 9, 2010 by garyh

[Jingthing]

Thanks for the video about the genocidal American "Christian" missionary. I think it is debatable whether this was genocide as many people associate mass murders with that word, but I think it probably meets the test.

genocide

: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

As the Thai government supported this "program" it does partially answer the question as to why these alien aggressive converters are allowed to stay, and prosper. I am ashamed to be associated with that missionary as my fellow countryman.

BTW, to those trying to justify these horrors by pointing out there are other undesirable expats in Thailand, like sexpats, how can you even begin to compare the damage done by these missionaries to a fun loving Phuket barfly?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[antony77]

Yeah these are the kinds of Americans I was happy to leave back in America. At least they leave me alone in Thailand (hopeless case).

These people used to come to my house a lot in the old days. I think they called themselves 7th day something or other.

I got very fed up with them bothering us. All the posts I read above, I would agree with,

[Beetlejuice]

The Thai State has long profited from the presence of Christian missionaries, they represent a nice source of steady income that has been around for generation. There is also a small yet economically powerful Thai-Christian elite in Bangkok that is aligned politically with what we call the "old guard" down there. Thus they represent a conservative political presence with long standing connections to the highest ranks of the Thai polity and serve as a bridge to other conservative Christian groups in the west. Many of the long-term missionaries, especially the Baptist and Catholics, have Thai citizenship, as do their children. They have provided superior secondary education options to the children of the Thai elite for generations without requiring conversions to Christianity. In fact, one of the reasons they are so tolerated is that they make little headway within Thai Buddhist circles. They are given the highland minorities as a bone to keep them around in such numbers, and to keep the money flowing and to keep those schools going.

The hill people have long been successful targets as their lives and traditions, including their belief systems, have been under tremendous pressure for past several hundred years. The missionary activity amongst the hill people began with the British in Burma, having found a receptive audience that lent itself to the Empire's divide and conquer strategy. So today you find mostly Christian hill tribe villages in Thailand and a large number of missionaries to tend to these flocks. And yes, it attracts missionaries for the same reason that Thailand attracts other types of tourists, the ability to live far more comfortably for any given income than back home.

What you say is 100%, I have personal experiences of this.

Another point to mention is that they find recruits from the poorest South East asian village communities by offering low paid employment and a free meal that gives them a permanent source for cheap labor within the Christian sects. I have witnessed whole villages transformed into Christian communities, guaranteed loyalty to their elite Christian masters.

[getgoin]

Here is an example of some of the "good work" done by these so called people.

If you call this "good work" done by these so called people then you are being ridiculous. This is far from the "good work" and even a sarcastic inference of good deeds does not distract from the obvious. I would have loved to see an example of actual "good work." Plenty of them around.

Let me be the one to say it because it is not going to feel good. Family means everything to the Akha. What hurts these hill tribe women was that they did not have boys to work the fields (among other places near Chang Puak) and girls to work in Nana Plaza and send home the bacon. That is how much these women would have cared for their children. Whoops. How's that for being politically correct? This doesn't excuse this despicable event but neither does this define relief workers, missionaries and Christians in Thailand.

While it is left to the simple mind to define a culture/race/social group by the misdeeds of a few of its members it still smacks of bigotry and racism, whether the person is white, black or orange.

It defies logic why a thread that calls a spade a spade is edited or shut down and a thread that calls relief workers/missionaries/Christians genocidal is not. This would have to mean that my statement about the Akha women would also have to be alright. Congratulations on being the home of the really narrow minded.

[Lumumba]

Christian bashing should not allowed in Chiangmai forum, as sleazy farang bashing is not tolerated in Pattaya forum.

People do not like to hear about hel_l fire, I understand that, but what harm could a missionary do to a community apart from the healthcare, education and love they promote?

Or do we prefer the missionaries leave and the Madrasas fill in the space?

As for the SUVs, you know the offices are in rough terrain and off road, a Honda civic wont be of much use.The sunday B300 lunch and nice shopping is meant to keep the body in super form to take the spirit to lands still unknown.

I was in Mukdahan three weeks ago, I went to that village where some young girls were killed in the 40 when they refused to renounce their faith in Catholicism. Its on the old road, there is a definite change of scenery when you get to that village where the Catholics have firmly rooted themselves, very good schools and other basic amenities in the middle of a jungle.

Say what you may, the missionaries do a great job, and has been for centuries.

I was born in a war zone in a convent (Missionaries of the sisters of the Immaculate heart).

[Jingthing]

Destroying ancient cultures which are regarded as worthless by missionaries may not be as bad as sterilization campaigns, but the result is similar. We are in a modern age. We know now that colonialism and imperialism are evils. Why can't be call this for what we know it is?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[eek]

I am seeking advice about this thread. Apologies, but Im concerned about the turn it is taking.

In the mean time im closing it.

---

Edit: Remaining closed.

Forum rules

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Could have been an interesting discussion.

//CLOSED//

Edited August 9, 2010 by eek
additional text