Tot Blocking All Torrent Traffic

[Peteinbkk31]

To the person who told us to buy the dvds at the market for 100b ..... the only things I download are Uk tv shows, things that you can't buy in Thailand ... Movies I do buy, mainly cos they have 5.1 sound

[Sunny Valentine]

How would you react if I were to say:

Most of Skype users use the bandwith for irrelevant chitchat. I pay my Internet connection like others and I want my Torrents to have enough Bandwidth to load reasonably fast. I use my connection in a normal way, but my connection is scrapped by those that use Youtube or Skype for their irrelevant and - I can't prove it but I presume - most likely illegal purposes.

Don't really think this approach takes us any further. By the way, I use Torrents in a legal way, to up- and download program and OS code.

I know there s a bandwidth problem for Internet data outside of Thailand as the number of backbones is limited.

More, I know torrent uses an incredible amount of bandwidth for data mostly located outside of the country.

Most of the torrent users download illegal things. I regularly ask myself why some people have the need to crash the quality of service for all the other users when they are in a country where the whole DVD is at 100 Bt in the local market with perfect quality.

I pay my Internet connection like the others and I want to have my Skype strong enough to talk to people in Europe. I want also my websites to display faster on my browser, and youtube videos to be more reactive. I make normal usage of my connection and I expect it to work fine. But the quality of my connection is scrapped by torrent users who use all the bandwidth in my area, and reduce the amount of available bandwidth for data located outside of the country.

In these conditions, I don't want to be located to the same router or backbone than torrent/donkey users. This is the reason why I'm not with TT&T as you have to share your connection with your neighbors and you can't do anything anymore when they start they p2p.

I totally agree with TOT decision and I expect it to make my connection working better.

Torrent users have to pay more or to have their own network. Or to go to the shop to buy their dvd.

[Peteinbkk31]

Can people say what sites they are downloading from ok cos for me the 3 main ones I use

Thebox = not working

uknova = working

eztv = not working

[MrSaliva]

I know there s a bandwidth problem for Internet data outside of Thailand as the number of backbones is limited.

More, I know torrent uses an incredible amount of bandwidth for data mostly located outside of the country.

Most of the torrent users download illegal things. I regularly ask myself why some people have the need to crash the quality of service for all the other users when they are in a country where the whole DVD is at 100 Bt in the local market with perfect quality.

I pay my Internet connection like the others and I want to have my Skype strong enough to talk to people in Europe. I want also my websites to display faster on my browser, and youtube videos to be more reactive. I make normal usage of my connection and I expect it to work fine. But the quality of my connection is scrapped by torrent users who use all the bandwidth in my area, and reduce the amount of available bandwidth for data located outside of the country.

In these conditions, I don't want to be located to the same router or backbone than torrent/donkey users. This is the reason why I'm not with TT&T as you have to share your connection with your neighbors and you can't do anything anymore when they start they p2p.

I totally agree with TOT decision and I expect it to make my connection working better.

Torrent users have to pay more or to have their own network. Or to go to the shop to buy their dvd.

I feel your pain Ved!

It is the same one most of us torrenters feel when we notice all the Skype users hogging the bandwidth to avoid paying the incredibly cheap long distance rates charged in Thailand.

[lomatopo]

H2oDunc says he's no problem downloading loading from TOT, but hasn't replied to my question asking where he is

FWIW, I am in BKK and on TOT. Am torrenting 3 files on one computer and 2 on a NAS. All are acting 'normal' in that the download speeds are all over the place. in these cases they are variously .7 KB/s, 145 KB/s, 102 KB/s on the one machine and at present 31 kB/s and 31.5 kB/s on the other. In the latter case the total download speed was just under 280 kB/s about 15 minutes ago.

FWIW, you may be missing the nuance of this issue. I too am on TOT (also have TRUE, 2 lines and CSLoxInfo, 1 line) and am currently downloading at full wire speed. However that is a result of "Peer Exchange" and no one on TOT seems able to log in to private trackers. Can you examine the "Tracker" tab of one your current torrents and tell us what is says? My guess is that for HTTP trackers it will say "connection closed by peer" or "offline, timed out". If you were try and upload a torrent to a private tracker, or download a new one from a private tracker I suspect things will not act "normal".

Maybe we could stay on topic in this thread, and those who want to discuss how broadband service providers package, price and promote their service offerings, and how customers choose to use their service, could start a separate thread? This issue does not appear to be a TOT usage policy change, and all you can use internet access is now firmly established in the home market.

Edited August 11, 2010 by lomatopo

[Sunny Valentine]

All udp trackers work for me, but all tcp (http) trackers timed out and wont connect.

[vediovis]

I feel your pain Ved!

It is the same one most of us torrenters feel when we notice all the Skype users hogging the bandwidth to avoid paying the incredibly cheap long distance rates charged in Thailand.

Inaccurate answer. p2p systems use a lot more bandwith than Skype or anything else in the Internet these days. This is a fact.

And about the pain.... Errr, today it seems to be more about yours than mine

[geoffphuket]

Working fine on TOT in Ratchaburi.

Encouraging. I'm hoping this is glitch and not permanent spanner.

[wontok]

Before this discussion degenerates into a for and against torrents rant, can we agree to differ and look for solutions?

I use torrents a lot - mostly for TV and sport from overseas (none of it copyright or available on DVD!)

I live 35 km from town and TOT is my only available provider as far as I know. If TOT really has blocked my access what, if any, are my options?

I have heard about, but don't yet understand, VPNs - are they relevant an\d if so can anyone enlighten me on these?

Thanks

[TAWP]

This had to happen. It probably a good thing. You'll "hopefully" see performance of voip, web mail, etc.. improve. Torrents are drain especially since most peers exists outside of TOT, if you look at an average torrent drainer using a steady 1mbit the economics just dont make sense. I cant even buy full transit routes on 1000mbit commits for < 550baht/mbit (or anywhere near that). So hopefully TOT stop, separate, or traffic shape them.

Ideally I'd like to see torrent drainer pay a massive premium. Part ignorance for most windoze users as the systray hides the little U, but wow imagine how fast the internet would be in Thailand without torrent drainers.

Ends rant.

I hope they ban VOIP, email-traffic etc so we can see an improvement in performance for those that play games against servers outside the nation. And given that far more traffic is used against for example youtube than torrents in the nation, let us hope they ban http-acccess too, atleast to youtube and many other populare sites.

I mean, what is the purpose of providing a service that people might use and enjoy. Ban it all I say.

[dave111223]

My TOT is working (in Bangkok) to download torrents.

[geoffphuket]

Before this discussion degenerates into a for and against torrents rant, can we agree to differ and look for solutions?

I use torrents a lot - mostly for TV and sport from overseas (none of it copyright or available on DVD!)

I live 35 km from town and TOT is my only available provider as far as I know. If TOT really has blocked my access what, if any, are my options?

I have heard about, but don't yet understand, VPNs - are they relevant an\d if so can anyone enlighten me on these?

Thanks

A VPN (Virtual Private Network) won't help. We need TOT to fix the fault or remove the block - whichever it is. Like yourself, I use torrents to view European TV and sport - It's what I pay TOT for and is my only reason for having the service.

I'd appreciate if my thread could be kept on topic and not deteriorate into a mud slinging match - thanks guys :jap:

[mattcodes]

vediovis - glad to see someone sees it fair.

Skype uses nowhere near the bandwidth that most torrent use, a fraction of a megabit. Also it runs for as long as the conversations last and establishes a minimal number of p2p connections. U pay for your internet connection, sure, but say you pay for 3mb, its oversold (same everywhere in the world), ISPs dont expect you to saturate the line, they even tell you there will be contention. This problem DOES exist is other countries but the effects on the main userbase arent as dramatic for numerous reasons that I cant be arsed typing out in detail - think where the peer exists - think who gets traffic shaped - think how cheap the transit and partial transit routes are in US / EU - you can get down to less than a couple of quid a megabit in large commits.

>By the way, I use Torrents in a legal way, to up- and download program and OS code.

Yawn. Im sure some people do. Most people working with source code will be pulling an SCM though (git/cvs/svn), most distros are available on HTTP mirrors too, so unfortunately given 99% of torrent traffic is illegitimate you may be that 1% victim, workarounds exist so its for the greater good.

>It is the same one most of us torrenters feel when we notice all the Skype users hogging the bandwidth to avoid paying the incredibly cheap long distance rates charged in Thailand.

Again misinformed. Use a bandwidth monitor to see how much traffic a Skype call takes and how many peer 2 peer connections it uses (the sheer number with bittorrent have effects on l3 switching gear in play at the ISPs).

Well done TOT. I just hope the others follow. Torrenter you can come back in a few years when the infrastructure can support everybody saturating (> 25%) there line 24/7.

My solution - 500baht / month for 8mbit/10mbit or something sensible. 100baht/1gb downloaded/uyploaded then you can torrent your heart out and we'd all be happy.

Edited August 11, 2010 by mattcodes

[TAWP]

I totally agree with TOT decision and I expect it to make my connection working better.

What you mean is that you are a selfish person and support any actions that reduce the service-quality for others as long as your perceive and improvement for you. Noted.

[delboy]

I have heard about, but don't yet understand, VPNs - are they relevant an\d if so can anyone enlighten me on these?

Be very careful if you use a VPN to access thebox. They had an announcement a few weeks ago that anyone discovered using a VPN to download torrents from their tracker would get an instant ban, no warnings and no appeal.

I'm on 3BB in Chiang Mai and torrents from thebox are downloading normally for me, at the moment, but that could change anytime.

Edited August 11, 2010 by delboy

[TAWP]

so unfortunately given 99% of torrent traffic is illegitimate you may be that 1% victim, workarounds exist so its for the greater good.

The greater good, now where did I hear lines like that before, Comrade?

Currently there is a Skype-conversations running and some 30 leech and seeds of files in this room, and there is no impact on the Skype performance. Don't blame TOT's inability to provide a reasonably service to a reasonable price with other user using 'your' ( ) bandwidth.

[mattcodes]

TAWP. LOL

BitTorrent uses a disproportional amount of resources, one users affects several regular users - the infrastructure can't cope with YOUR usages patterns and your selfish expectation to batter the lines affect people using the internet in ways broadband was originally intended for. Perhaps this is why BitTorrent is targetted? Or do you just think they pulled one protocol out of hat for no other reason than luck?

[vediovis]

What you mean is that you are a selfish person and support any actions that reduce the service-quality for others as long as your perceive and improvement for you. Noted.

I think I don't reduce the quality of service of anyone. P2p users do. In a totally selfish way. hel_l is other people, they said... Stop creating it by trying to give to others the shame you carry on yourself.

Edited August 11, 2010 by vediovis

[beano2274]

I have noticed no difference, in fact thebox has stopped me from downloading, I have a big percentage but still it will not allow me to download, maybe it is cutting links to Thailand.

UKNova since the changes I have not been able to use, and my account seems to be cancelled.

I am using 1337x.org and it works well, in fact downloading at home now, in Nonthaburi, but cannot check properly as I am at work in Bangkok. But was okay at 7.30am this morning.

[mattcodes]

TAWP.

There is no doubt that P2P traffic is having a determinable affect on Thailand international bandwidth capacity. The fact that you have a Skype conversation running doesnt support your argument. What I am saying is if torrent were blocked we'd ALL have much responsive and consistent connection, that the selfish part, rather than torrent users causing all the contention.

[wontok]

....given 99% of torrent traffic is illegitimate you may be that 1% victim, workarounds exist so its for the greater good.

Mattcodes - can you please advise on these workarounds?

Thanks

[JetsetBkk]

My TOT is working (in Bangkok) to download torrents.

Have you started any NEW torrents recently?

I am currently downloading a torrent from TheEmpire - a sister site to TheBox. It started BEFORE the "block", so my client (Vuze) knows the IP addresses of some peers and can still download from them. Even so, the tracker status for this torrent shows as "Connection Error".

My Vuze cannot start any new torrents downloading. Can your client?

[mattcodes]

Don't blame TOT's inability to provide a reasonably service to a reasonable price with other user using 'your' ( ) bandwidth.

I have 2mbit and probably use 2GB a month (looking at my wan counters) - web browsing, skype, youtube etc.. out of theoretical maximum of say around 600gb. Under 1%. Plays kind of nicely with the 50:1 contention ratio I find - so I expect when I do utilize Skype or Youtube bandwidth is available. How does your torrent usage stack up? I bet pretty selfishly considering your allotted contention ratios.

Edited August 11, 2010 by mattcodes

[JetsetBkk]

Working fine on TOT in Ratchaburi.

Can you start a new torrent?

[mattcodes]

Mattcodes - can you please advise on these workarounds?

I mean for the 1% of legitimate uses, there are workarounds if Torrents are unfortunately blocked by mass selfish drainers. e.g. Linux distros exist on hundreds of HTTP mirrors.

[geoffphuket]

We've gone off topic guys. I didn't open this thread for an all out war on who's right or wrong downloading torrents

[flexxx]

I'm in Sisaket and the service has been terrible for about 2 months now. I've been with them for 2 years (only provider in my area) and never had a complaint until recently. It all began around the start of the world cup, disconnections, slow page loading and downloading etc. I thought it was due to large numbers of people streaming games but it remains the same now.

Having put up with this for a while now, I've noticed that the problems are occuring at specific times which can change day to day. 7am to 9am one day then 9am to 12pm the next. the same problems occur in the afternoon, and a few times I've been down all day. However night times the connection always bangs!

Currently the problem here seems to be affecting random torrent sites, e.g. Demonoid tracker no problem (http), but Cinemageddon has been timedout since yesterday (also http). On open torrent sites I've found about 50% of the trackers they're using are permanently timedout which is unusual.

I've complained to TOT countless times over the past 2 months. Had technicians out twice, no joy, they say everything is fine and no problems with the local server. I took my modem to the local office and was told that it had an old username and password which they changed. No difference. TOT will not admit there is a problem.

I've been checking the forums regularly, and this does not seem to be limited to TOT, there are threads with similar complaints about True, 3BB and others from all over the country, so it may not be an exclusive TOT problem.

Hope they find a solution soon, if they will even admit that there is a problem!

[TAWP]

Don't blame TOT's inability to provide a reasonably service to a reasonable price with other user using 'your' ( ) bandwidth.

I have 2mbit and probably use 2GB a month (looking at my wan counters) - web browsing, skype, youtube etc.. out of theoretical maximum of say around 130gb-144gb. That is a little under 2%. Plays kind of nicely with the 50:1 contention ratio I find - so I expect when I do utilize Skype or Youtube bandwidth is available. How does your torrent usage stack up? I bet pretty selfishly considering your allotted contention ratios.

Again, you are selfish when you want an ISP to alter things that will negatively affect many users so you will perceive an improvement.

Just an FYI, to the townhouse I am currently typing from we have both TOT and TRUE. TOT was the only one that could supply a connection when we first wanted one. It was pure crap from day 1. Now we have a much faster TRUE connection aswell, it is cheaper per mbit, incredibly much faster and no more Skype issues.

And guess what, torrents are much faster too...

Perhaps you need to change ISP if they cannot supply a reasonably service or stop trying to find a boogy-man to blame for your issues?

Btw, is it fair to assume that you are not a network designer, cannot name the 7 levels of the OSI model or how to deconstruct an UDP package? Just asking...

[vediovis]

Btw, is it fair to assume that you are not a network designer, cannot name the 7 levels of the OSI model or how to deconstruct an UDP package? Just asking...

I think I can, as I am an IT engineer and a strong actor of the Open Source community.

And I insist : Thailand infrastructure are not totally developed yet, there's a bandwidth problem with data from abroad, and we will ALL have better services if p2p users would be put on hold for a few months [or will have their own network]

[mattcodes]

Don't blame TOT's inability to provide a reasonably service to a reasonable price with other user using 'your' ( ) bandwidth.

I have 2mbit and probably use 2GB a month (looking at my wan counters) - web browsing, skype, youtube etc.. out of theoretical maximum of say around 600gb (correction). That is a little under 2%. Plays kind of nicely with the 50:1 contention ratio I find - so I expect when I do utilize Skype or Youtube bandwidth is available. How does your torrent usage stack up? I bet pretty selfishly considering your allotted contention ratios.

Again, you are selfish when you want an ISP to alter things that will negatively affect many users so you will perceive an improvement.

Just an FYI, to the townhouse I am currently typing from we have both TOT and TRUE. TOT was the only one that could supply a connection when we first wanted one. It was pure crap from day 1. Now we have a much faster TRUE connection aswell, it is cheaper per mbit, incredibly much faster and no more Skype issues.

And guess what, torrents are much faster too...

Perhaps you need to change ISP if they cannot supply a reasonably service or stop trying to find a boogy-man to blame for your issues?

Btw, is it fair to assume that you are not a network designer, cannot name the 7 levels of the OSI model or how to deconstruct an UDP package? Just asking...

TAWP.

No I'm not a network designer, thankfully I presume you are not neither, or do you have magic solution to the contention... Just asking? This isn't rocket science. Im not going to play the credentials game...

I leave it at this. You pay for X mbit, you agree to a contention ratio maybe 20:1 maybe 50:1 (How many OTHER people you share your bandwidth allocation with), this isn't a 1:1 leased line, if your usage consistently or exponentially exceeds the (X Mbit / 8) * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 = GBytes (excluding overheads) / "Contention Ratio" per month by say 2x then I think its fair to that this profile of user is as you say "selfish" and to the determent of others. What you estimate you usage at? What is your contention ratio? Dont bother answering.. I cant imagine you are on a 1:1 leased line..

Maybe at your townhouse with ZYX internet torrent flew, but this probably due to light usage from neighboring users (Im not sure where they apply the contention ratio here - at local DSLAMs or regional) but when other paying users come board (perhaps even torrent drainers) then you have to share, I want some internet too - some reliable internet please - guess that make me selfish - how its enforced I dont care... Unfortunately for you, the ISPs here dont have expensive traffic shaping tools to enforce this so instead of throttling your torrents during peak hours this look like the brutal solution for now..

Feel free to make a constructive suggestion on the contention issues though.. Maybe for 1000 baht a month we should all have 1:1 or 1:2 ?

Edited August 11, 2010 by mattcodes