Buddhism In English Speaking Countries

[khaowong1]

Another Phra Falang and myself are working on the problem of how to spread Buddhism, or should I say, Therevada Buddhism to English speaking countries. Here's the problem in my country, U.S.A. All the Therevada temples are Thai.. When a American goes to visit a Buddhist temple, he or she is hit with Pali, then Thai. They can't understand what is going on. They don't go back for a second visit. Speaking for most Americans, I know they aren't going to learn to read and write Pali or Thai to learn about Buddhism. They are not going to sit on the floor, and they are not going to bow down to Buddha statues. I'm saying this because I know.. I'm a Buddhist monk, and I do of course sit on the floor and bow to the Buddha statues and my superior monks. Americans by and large will not do this. If any of you can remember, the Catholic church had to change their traditions in Latin to English to keep their members. Maybe the Therevada Sangha will also have to change to English or another language if they are in Europe. I have heard talk that the Supreme Patriarch wants to be the leader in spreading Buddhism in especially the U.S. But it's not going to get done while most, 98%, of the monks at those temple in the U.S. are Thai temples and don't even speak basic english. So..... how about some feed back.. My Phra Falang friend and I would like to put together a short proposal and deliver it to the current Supreme Patriarch for his approval and maybe get something moving... thanks...

[Xangsamhua]

If you haven't already, you might like to look at this website: http://www.wbd.org.au/index.htm

Wat Buddhadhamma was founded in 1978 by Ven Phra Khantipalo and is located within the Dhurag National Park in New South Wales.

I stayed at the Wat with my family for a few days in early 1984 and it was a wonderful experience - rather like a Theravadin Plum Village.

I don't know what it's like now - a lot more facilities and more mod cons I expect, but I expect they are still an English-medium centre reaching out to English-speaking people.

[fabianfred]

You definately need an English native speaker to teach the Dhamma....a Thai who speaks some English isn't good enough. Here in my temple with the MonkforaMonth visitors I also transcribed the morning and evening chanting into roman script so that they can follow and join in...even though on Buddha days the chanting is in Thai and Pali...I did both...and they enjoy joining in.

[phetaroi]

I have a little bit of a problem with the concept of "how to spread Buddhism". I was always taught that Buddhists do not proselytize. That it's only valid when someone comes seeking knowledge and wisdom, not when it's pushed at them.

If you change your original post to something like "how to facilitate teaching Buddhism to English speaking people", then it falls in line with what I have been taught.

Thoughts?

[sabaijai]

There are over a hundred primarily English-speaking Theravada monasteries and centres in the USA.

One of the oldest and most successful:

http://www.bhavanasociety.org/

Even older:

http://www.buddhistvihara.com/

Other examples:

http://hermitage.abhayagiri.org/about-us

State by state in the USA:

http://www.dharmanet.org/t-usa.html

Most of the Burmese Buddhist monasteries in the USA offer English dhamma instruction as well. Ex:

http://www.sitagu.org/home/

For those who have problems bowing, etc, there are plenty of semi-secularised branches of IMS in the US:

http://www.dharma.org/

And the several Goenka centres:

http://www.dhara.dhamma.org/ns/

Various institutes of Buddhist studies, some attached to universities, some independent, also offer Theravada Buddhist teachings, such as the Sati Center for Buddhist Studies.

http://www.sati.org/

Also, Vipassana Hawaii:

http://www.vipassanahawaii.org/

To name just a few found throughout the USA.

Add to these all the Theravada monasteries and centres in Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, and it seems to me that Theravada is getting around rather well in the English-speaking world.

Forest Sangha:

http://www.forestsangha.org/

which lists

MAIN MONASTERIES (listed in alphabetical order)

Abhayagiri Monastery - U.S.A.

Amaravati Monastery - U.K.

Aruna Ratanagiri Monastery - U.K.

Bodhinyanarama Monastery - New Zealand

Bodhivana Monastery - no website available - Australia

Cittaviveka Monastery - U.K.

Dhammapala Kloster - Switzerland

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

Hartridge Monastery - U.K.

Santacittarama Monastero - Italy

Vimutti Hermitage - New Zealand

Wat Marp Jan - Thailand

Wat Nong Pah Pong - Thailand

Wat Pah Nanachat - Thailand

Wat Pah Sunan - Thailand

ASSOCIATED MONASTERIES (listed in alphabetical order)

Arrow River Center - www.arrowriver.ca - Canada

Birken Forest Monastery - birken.ca - Canada

Dhammagiri Hermitage - www.dhammagiri.org.au - Australia

Vimokkharama Hermitage - no website available - Australia

Tisarana Monastery - www.tisarana.ca - Canada

[christiaan]

Your story about working on the problem how to spread Buddhism makes many questions arise inside me.

You like to learn about Buddhism but you cannot find a teacher and yet you try to find ways to spread something you do not know that much about?

Where are the questions you like to give an answer too?

or

who did ask you 'Buddhist' questions that are waiting for 'Buddhist answers?

What are these questions people ask?

Am I right you maybe like to stimulate the spreading of Buddhism in English out of your own desire for this?

Would it not be better to do some efforts to have more Thai speaking English and to be willing to answer questions of native speaking English 'students'?

Are you trying to compensate the disinterest many Thai munks and teachers show to answer questions any person ask them with regard to Buddhisme?

The Catholic church did not only change their language, they also came down from their seats of authority - beside the general staf in the Vatican - to the level of the ordinary people. Priests in my country are looked upon as friendly spiritual social workers. Munks, nuns and monastries have almost disapeared. When things continue the way they do there will not be much left of Catholic church in my country in not too long time. It shows people do not accept 'wisdom' out of authority anymore.

If you ask me, the general Western interested public is looking for answers, for some wisdom, for insight at the best, they certainly are not looking to restore some old or to build up some new form of authority. Individuality, freedom, equality and brotherhood are the topics of post modern time.

I do adept Thai customs when in Thailand but I do not think I will behave the same way in a western country since it is no custom there and I see no reason

to bow for munks outside Thailand or to specifically sit on the floor.

To me this is no part of Dhamma or any other practice it is just way of culture.

I would be interested to visit a Buddhist centre in my country but when I would see it would be a kind of Isle of anachronisme I probably never will return there.

[endure]

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

The vast majority of visitors to the Forest Hermitage are Thai with a few Burmese & Sri Lankans. There are some farang visitors but they tend to be the hubbies of the Thai wives who visit.

[fabianfred]

If you ask me, the general Western interested public is looking for answers, for some wisdom, for insight at the best, they certainly are not looking to restore some old or to build up some new form of authority. Individuality, freedom, equality and brotherhood are the topics of post modern time.

I do adept Thai customs when in Thailand but I do not think I will behave the same way in a western country since it is no custom there and I see no reason

to bow for munks outside Thailand or to specifically sit on the floor.

To me this is no part of Dhamma or any other practice it is just way of culture.

There are many Westerners who want to know about Buddhism from the source....monks...rather than just browsing forums. They naturally have a simple shallow understanding at first and find attractive the various ceremonies and chanting etc.

In the Buddha's time the monks went out all over the place after they had sufficient knowledge of how to practice. Their example impressed some lay people who came to ask them who their teacher was and what was his teaching...this is not the same as going and trying to force your religion on others.

Bowing to monks is done because we know how difficult it is just to keep the five precepts...let alone the 227 rules a monk has to. If we respect them, we show respect to them...this is one way of making merit.

Asians grew up mostly without any furniture in their homes so they are used to sitting upon the floor. It is customary to sit at the same level as a monk, or lower than them, to show respect to them and especially when they are teaching the Dhamma to show respect to the Dhamma.

[christiaan]

I think anyone is entitled to do as he or she chooses to do.

Allthough I meet many people in life and sometimes talk with people who are interested in Buddhism I think I did not meet a Buddhist until now, But on the other side how do you recognise a Buddhist?

A Buddhist monk , I have never seen anyone outside Asia and I realy cannot imagine it would become custom to see a monk in my country. In contrary, I am about sure when life standard would change upwards in Thailand, the number of monks would go downwards and I have read - on the internet - this is actually already happening as it is also the case with visiting temples.

I had some experience with monks in thailand, One of them was at a funeral, I got the impression what they were doing at this funeral was like people working in an assembly line, they made a very disinterested impression. Not very uplifting.

Allthough I am studying, working and practicing for about thirty years now, inspired in a way that could be described as a deeply transformed Buddhism, something I discovered in time (not transformed by me but by the people I can call my teachers) I never ever before was deeply interested in the Asian variation/history of it. What I have learned about it and still am learning about it confirms what I, by intuition was thinking about it,. Traditional Buddhism is becoming an anachronism.

To bow for monks is mainly coming out of a generalising atitude. And generalising is one of the attitudes and ways of thinking we have to overcome. To bow for monks is bowing for people looking like monks. So people in many cases just bow for the outside manifestation not knowing about the inside. Just remember this Thai general who was thrown out of the country after behaving in a very unbuddhist way, being responsible for the dead of many people, trying to return later in secret dressed up as a monk, to return to his former wealth again.

Then it is more and more to see monks do often behave often in a bad way, and with this I think it is meant people having the outlook of a monk.

I, inside, bow for people I learn to know in an individual relation, I bow for a friend who suffered the lost of his wife and 2 young children, I bow for a friend working very hard to make his enterprise a succes, I bow for Thai prostitutes who entered a life of payd sex pressed by their family and culture, to support their family and her young child. The child she has to take care for al alone after her Thai 'boyfriend' left her.

But maybe it is only custom in Thailand to bow for people who make the impression they have lived in a rich inner way before, bowing for succesfull people, as it is the custom in western material countries to bow for people who are rich and financially very succesfull.

My teachers rejected people bowing for them and some of them were very high enlighted persons.

In meeting Krishnamurti I was impressed how he excused himself for sitting on a stage when other people were sitting in a lower position. Moving around amongst people you could notice he did in a very modest way never attracking attention and for this he even paid attention to the clothes he choosed to wear. I even noticed it was very difficult to detect him in a crowd, well he was very small of statue, but people just did not encounter him in another way as they did other people.

The internet is a wonderfull source to learn about Buddhisme in any way, it is for people who are not related to inner development at all it is for people who are related to this for many years. The internet is the source for information as books only have been before, for people living far away from actual events. I would say, becos we have internet now, the monks can stay home and travel by internet. Students also can stay home and travel to knowledge by intenet. The internet is all about communication, spreading Buddhisme is also a matter of communication. And it is not only forums, it is also movies and chatting.

Buddhism as it is practiced in Asia, I cannot imagine this will continue as it is in our transforming world. As informed by the internet, it is decreasing already.

We do not live in the same world as 2500 years ago, as Buddha was not living in the world of 2500 years before him.

People, especially western people, travel to exotic places to look for ways of enlightment to find outside them, in my view people have to travel to/in their inside.

The times of traditional outside rituals are gone, passing by. That is observation.

The times of traditional religions are gone and passing by. That is observation.

Religions are transforming, coming closer to the source, this source is 'talking' to humans inside. That is inner experience.

[khaowong1]

I have a little bit of a problem with the concept of "how to spread Buddhism". I was always taught that Buddhists do not proselytize. That it's only valid when someone comes seeking knowledge and wisdom, not when it's pushed at them.

If you change your original post to something like "how to facilitate teaching Buddhism to English speaking people", then it falls in line with what I have been taught.

Thoughts?

I stand corrected... thanks.. "How do you facilitate teaching Buddhism to English speaking people."?

[khaowong1]

There are over a hundred primarily English-speaking Theravada monasteries and centres in the USA.

One of the oldest and most successful:

http://www.bhavanasociety.org/

Even older:

http://www.buddhistvihara.com/

Other examples:

http://hermitage.abh...ri.org/about-us

State by state in the USA:

http://www.dharmanet.org/t-usa.html

Most of the Burmese Buddhist monasteries in the USA offer English dhamma instruction as well. Ex:

http://www.sitagu.org/home/

For those who have problems bowing, etc, there are plenty of semi-secularised branches of IMS in the US:

http://www.dharma.org/

And the several Goenka centres:

http://www.dhara.dhamma.org/ns/

Various institutes of Buddhist studies, some attached to universities, some independent, also offer Theravada Buddhist teachings, such as the Sati Center for Buddhist Studies.

http://www.sati.org/

Also, Vipassana Hawaii:

http://www.vipassanahawaii.org/

To name just a few found throughout the USA.

Add to these all the Theravada monasteries and centres in Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, and it seems to me that Theravada is getting around rather well in the English-speaking world.

Forest Sangha:

http://www.forestsangha.org/

which lists

MAIN MONASTERIES (listed in alphabetical order)

Abhayagiri Monastery - U.S.A.

Amaravati Monastery - U.K.

Aruna Ratanagiri Monastery - U.K.

Bodhinyanarama Monastery - New Zealand

Bodhivana Monastery - no website available - Australia

Cittaviveka Monastery - U.K.

Dhammapala Kloster - Switzerland

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

Hartridge Monastery - U.K.

Santacittarama Monastero - Italy

Vimutti Hermitage - New Zealand

Wat Marp Jan - Thailand

Wat Nong Pah Pong - Thailand

Wat Pah Nanachat - Thailand

Wat Pah Sunan - Thailand

ASSOCIATED MONASTERIES (listed in alphabetical order)

Arrow River Center - www.arrowriver.ca - Canada

Birken Forest Monastery - birken.ca - Canada

Dhammagiri Hermitage - www.dhammagiri.org.au - Australia

Vimokkharama Hermitage - no website available - Australia

Tisarana Monastery - www.tisarana.ca - Canada

So what you are saying, is, if I live in Phoenix Arizona, and want to study Buddhism, I need to drive to California or Washington State or New York? Or up to Canada or take a trip to Australia? does that about cover it? I didn't see you say anything about maybe the current Thai temples in the U.S. should try and see that they have "native" English monks and teachers.. unless of course their main objective is to minister to the Thai peoples in those cities..

[khaowong1]

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

The vast majority of visitors to the Forest Hermitage are Thai with a few Burmese & Sri Lankans. There are some farang visitors but they tend to be the hubbies of the Thai wives who visit.

This is what I'm finding at the Thai temples in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and to many in California. The whole ceremony is done in Pali and Thai and the Americans visiting usually don't make a return trip. AND YES, I know there are some Theravada temples in California that teach in English.. wayyyyyy out in the country. The largest Theravada temple in California is Wat Thai L.A. and the last time I was there, which was in May 2010, the had no English speaking monks there. I'm sorry, that's not correct, they had some monks there that could say Hello, How are you? Goodbye and Take Care.

[khaowong1]

If you ask me, the general Western interested public is looking for answers, for some wisdom, for insight at the best, they certainly are not looking to restore some old or to build up some new form of authority. Individuality, freedom, equality and brotherhood are the topics of post modern time.

I do adept Thai customs when in Thailand but I do not think I will behave the same way in a western country since it is no custom there and I see no reason

to bow for munks outside Thailand or to specifically sit on the floor.

To me this is no part of Dhamma or any other practice it is just way of culture.

There are many Westerners who want to know about Buddhism from the source....monks...rather than just browsing forums. They naturally have a simple shallow understanding at first and find attractive the various ceremonies and chanting etc.

In the Buddha's time the monks went out all over the place after they had sufficient knowledge of how to practice. Their example impressed some lay people who came to ask them who their teacher was and what was his teaching...this is not the same as going and trying to force your religion on others.

Bowing to monks is done because we know how difficult it is just to keep the five precepts...let alone the 227 rules a monk has to. If we respect them, we show respect to them...this is one way of making merit.

Asians grew up mostly without any furniture in their homes so they are used to sitting upon the floor. It is customary to sit at the same level as a monk, or lower than them, to show respect to them and especially when they are teaching the Dhamma to show respect to the Dhamma.

(There are many Westerners who want to know about Buddhism from the source....monks...rather than just browsing forums...)

This is what I am also finding F.R. But I am also finding that unless someone can explain to them about the various ceremonies and explain the chanting, they aren't coming back. And to be truthful with you, the English translations of the Pali chants aren't helpful. They really don't make much sense to the average American. They should really be upgraded. I know it's difficult to translate from Pali to English but some one, a native speaker, needs to try and fix this problem. I don't propose to be that some one, I'm just making a point of some of the problems I see when I visit the Thai wats in the U.S.

[khaowong1]

If you ask me, the general Western interested public is looking for answers, for some wisdom, for insight at the best, they certainly are not looking to restore some old or to build up some new form of authority. Individuality, freedom, equality and brotherhood are the topics of post modern time.

I do adept Thai customs when in Thailand but I do not think I will behave the same way in a western country since it is no custom there and I see no reason

to bow for munks outside Thailand or to specifically sit on the floor.

To me this is no part of Dhamma or any other practice it is just way of culture.

There are many Westerners who want to know about Buddhism from the source....monks...rather than just browsing forums. They naturally have a simple shallow understanding at first and find attractive the various ceremonies and chanting etc.

In the Buddha's time the monks went out all over the place after they had sufficient knowledge of how to practice. Their example impressed some lay people who came to ask them who their teacher was and what was his teaching...this is not the same as going and trying to force your religion on others.

Bowing to monks is done because we know how difficult it is just to keep the five precepts...let alone the 227 rules a monk has to. If we respect them, we show respect to them...this is one way of making merit.

Asians grew up mostly without any furniture in their homes so they are used to sitting upon the floor. It is customary to sit at the same level as a monk, or lower than them, to show respect to them and especially when they are teaching the Dhamma to show respect to the Dhamma.

I had an idea of a getting together of the American monks in Thailand and discussing the problems of the Wats in the U.S. I'm only mentioning the American monks because I am an American. Do you think this idea has any merit? so to speak..

[sabaijai]

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

The vast majority of visitors to the Forest Hermitage are Thai with a few Burmese & Sri Lankans. There are some farang visitors but they tend to be the hubbies of the Thai wives who visit.

This is what I'm finding at the Thai temples in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and to many in California. The whole ceremony is done in Pali and Thai and the Americans visiting usually don't make a return trip. AND YES, I know there are some Theravada temples in California that teach in English.. wayyyyyy out in the country. The largest Theravada temple in California is Wat Thai L.A. and the last time I was there, which was in May 2010, the had no English speaking monks there. I'm sorry, that's not correct, they had some monks there that could say Hello, How are you? Goodbye and Take Care.

I see what you're saying. I'm guessing that since these are Thai-supported and Thai-operated temples, that they primarily intend to serve Thai or Lao residents. But perhaps they would be open to some kind of English-speaking dhuta (missionary) program.

Have you discussed the idea with your abbot? If he's not interested then there's probably not much you can do. In fact if you're not getting what you think you need from that temple, you should consider moving elsewhere at the end of the rains retreat.

Meanwhile the Sri Lankan sangha has a centre in Phoenix, and since their website is in English I assume they teach in English.

http://www.meditationforyou.org/

There is an SN Goenka centre in Phoenix as well, all courses taught in English (primarily vipassana).

A few others listed by the Phoenix Buddhist Network, a mix of Theravada, Zen and Tibetan:

http://www.phoenixbuddhists.org/

Here are just a few from the list:

Blooming Desert Lotus Sangha

Northwest Valley and Sun Cities

15826 Del Webb Blvd., Sun City, AZ

Sunland Memorial Park Office

Sundays 10:00am - 11:30am

Different site Thursday. Call for directions and details

Beginners welcome

BodhiHeart Dharma Center

2538 N. 55th Street

Phoenix, AZ 85008

Meditations on Wednesday and a teaching on Sunday, both at 7PM. Frequent special events and visits by Buddhist Masters.

One of the goals at BodhiHeart is to work with all Buddhist groups as well as developing strong interfaith connections.

Desert Cactus Sangha

Call 602-952-0915 for location information.

First Sunday of each month 9am to Noon.

(Please see the 2009 schedule for directions)

Desert Lotus Sangha

Valley Unitarian Universalist Church

6400 W. Del Rio St., Chandler

Sittings: Monday 7:15pm, most Thursdays 6:30am, first Saturday of month 9am-12pm Retreat.

Affiliate of Pacific Zen Institute working primarily with John Tarrant Roshi.

Empty Sky Sangha

Paradise Valley

We are a Zen Buddhist sangha affiliated with the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Principal Teacher is Paul Haller, current Abbot of SFZC. We are located in Paradise Valley and sit on Sunday afternoons from 4:30 to 5:30 with tea and discussion from 5:30 to 6:30.

We have a one day sit once a month also on Sundays. Anyone interested in Zen Budddhist meditation and practice are welcome.

Karma Thegsum Choling

Tempe, 605 E. Broadway, Suite 5. Beginners welcome. Call for details. Study groups on Tuesday and Thursday, 7:00pm meditation, 7:30pm study group. Third weekend of month - seminar with Erma Pounds.

Affiliate centers are located in Prescott, Payson, Cottonwood and Sedona.

Myung Wol Zen Center

Hayden & Thomas Road area. P.O. Box 11084, Scottsdale, AZ 85271-1084. Affiliate of Kwan Um School of Zen. lineage of Korean ZM Seung Sahn. Weekly practice: Wednesday 7:00pm, Sunday at 10:00am Chanting, meditation, Koan interviews. 1-day retreats bi-monthly, 3-day on Labor Day and Memorial Day weekends. Call for information and directions.

Phoenix Rising Vipassana Group

Tempe. Currently meeting at 7pm on Tuesdays. Currently, we have a reading or dharma talk and discussion the first Tuesday of the month. The other Tuesdays including sitting and walking, but participants may sit the entire time. Our practice is based upon the teachings of Jack Kornfield and the Insight Meditation Society. Please call for directions.

PHXVipassana

A website that supports those practicing or wishing to practice mindfulness meditation in the Phoenix, AZ area via listings of events and items of interest such as books, movies, quotes, art, photos and more.

Shambhala Phoenix Meditation Group

1202 E Maryland, Suite 2A (on second floor), Phoenix, AZ 85014

MEDITATION SCHEDULE

Wednesdays, 7:00-7:30 p.m.

Followed by tea and a Book Discussion or video series.

Meditation sessions and instruction are free and open to the

public.

Sundays, 10:00-11:00 a.m.

Followed by tea and a Book Discussion or video series

Meditation instructors are available at most sessions. Meditation sessions and instruction are free and open to the public, we do accept donations.

Nyinthun meditation is held on the fourth Sunday of the month (4 hours.)

Sunrise Sangha

Phoenix/Paradise Valley, 4207 E. Lincoln Dr. Group meets downstairs at Unitarian Universalist Church Saturdays 7:00-9:00am. Last Saturday of the month meets elsewhere. Coffee and open discussion afterward. Respectful of all Buddhist/meditation traditions. Please call for place and times.

Prescott

Prescott Vipassana Sangha

134 Garden Street

Prescott, AZ 86305

Tuesday evening meditation and discussion. Also meditation retreats in the Vipassana tradition. Please see the Prescott Vipassana Sangha Web Site for details.

[sabaijai]

If you ask me, the general Western interested public is looking for answers, for some wisdom, for insight at the best, they certainly are not looking to restore some old or to build up some new form of authority. Individuality, freedom, equality and brotherhood are the topics of post modern time.

I do adept Thai customs when in Thailand but I do not think I will behave the same way in a western country since it is no custom there and I see no reason

to bow for munks outside Thailand or to specifically sit on the floor.

To me this is no part of Dhamma or any other practice it is just way of culture.

There are many Westerners who want to know about Buddhism from the source....monks...rather than just browsing forums. They naturally have a simple shallow understanding at first and find attractive the various ceremonies and chanting etc.

In the Buddha's time the monks went out all over the place after they had sufficient knowledge of how to practice. Their example impressed some lay people who came to ask them who their teacher was and what was his teaching...this is not the same as going and trying to force your religion on others.

Bowing to monks is done because we know how difficult it is just to keep the five precepts...let alone the 227 rules a monk has to. If we respect them, we show respect to them...this is one way of making merit.

Asians grew up mostly without any furniture in their homes so they are used to sitting upon the floor. It is customary to sit at the same level as a monk, or lower than them, to show respect to them and especially when they are teaching the Dhamma to show respect to the Dhamma.

I had an idea of a getting together of the American monks in Thailand and discussing the problems of the Wats in the U.S. I'm only mentioning the American monks because I am an American. Do you think this idea has any merit? so to speak..

The community of Thai temples in the USA is primarily intended to serve Thais, obviously, so I have my doubts that the US Thai Sangha council would be interested. They may presume, as I did, that since there are already so many Theravada centres serving English speakers (outnumbering the Thai, most likely), that establishing an English-speaking program across the board is not a priority, even if some states, such as Arizona, are under-represented.

I have a feeling most American monks in Thailand would suggest establishing more American monasteries like Wat Abhayagiri rather than trying to infiltrate the existing Thai ones. But you should ask around the next time you're in Thailand, who knows. It's an interesting idea. Well worth exploring, I think.

I'm not sure it would be worth doing it in the states that already have a lot of options for English speakers though.

I also wonder how the Thai lay community would react to having American beginners clomping around the temples with their shoes on, etc.

Edited August 13, 2010 by sabaijai

[phetaroi]

I had an idea of a getting together of the American monks in Thailand and discussing the problems of the Wats in the U.S. I'm only mentioning the American monks because I am an American. Do you think this idea has any merit? so to speak..[/size][/font]

First of all, yes, I think your idea definitely has merit.

One question worth asking is what is the purpose of a Thai Buddhist temple in America. I've been to several, but the language problem makes it a little impractical. My impression is that -- for the most part -- the Thai Buddhist temples in America are designed for Thai expatriates. When an American comes in, unless they come with Thai people, they are often seen almost as tourists. It seems to me that every Thai Buddhist temple in America ought to have an "outreach person", not necessarily a monk, but someone whose main task is to help those interested to be more comfortable in the Buddhist community. And, to be frank, I think any Buddhist monk who is going to live in America, ought to learn a passable level of English...just as expat teachers in Thailand once had to do (not sure if that is still required, but it ought to be).

[endure]

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

The vast majority of visitors to the Forest Hermitage are Thai with a few Burmese & Sri Lankans. There are some farang visitors but they tend to be the hubbies of the Thai wives who visit.

This is what I'm finding at the Thai temples in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and to many in California. The whole ceremony is done in Pali and Thai and the Americans visiting usually don't make a return trip. AND YES, I know there are some Theravada temples in California that teach in English.. wayyyyyy out in the country. The largest Theravada temple in California is Wat Thai L.A. and the last time I was there, which was in May 2010, the had no English speaking monks there. I'm sorry, that's not correct, they had some monks there that could say Hello, How are you? Goodbye and Take Care.

All the monks at the Forest Hermitage are English although they have had Thai monks living there in the past. The senior monk is Ajahn Khemmadamo who was one of Ajahn Chah's original western monks.

[khaowong1]

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

The vast majority of visitors to the Forest Hermitage are Thai with a few Burmese & Sri Lankans. There are some farang visitors but they tend to be the hubbies of the Thai wives who visit.

This is what I'm finding at the Thai temples in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and to many in California. The whole ceremony is done in Pali and Thai and the Americans visiting usually don't make a return trip. AND YES, I know there are some Theravada temples in California that teach in English.. wayyyyyy out in the country. The largest Theravada temple in California is Wat Thai L.A. and the last time I was there, which was in May 2010, the had no English speaking monks there. I'm sorry, that's not correct, they had some monks there that could say Hello, How are you? Goodbye and Take Care.

I see what you're saying. I'm guessing that since these are Thai-supported and Thai-operated temples, that they primarily intend to serve Thai or Lao residents. But perhaps they would be open to some kind of English-speaking dhuta (missionary) program.

Have you discussed the idea with your abbot? If he's not interested then there's probably not much you can do. In fact if you're not getting what you think you need from that temple, you should consider moving elsewhere at the end of the rains retreat.

Meanwhile the Sri Lankan sangha has a centre in Phoenix, and since their website is in English I assume they teach in English.

http://www.meditationforyou.org/

There is an SN Goenka centre in Phoenix as well, all courses taught in English (primarily vipassana).

A few others listed by the Phoenix Buddhist Network, a mix of Theravada, Zen and Tibetan:

http://www.phoenixbuddhists.org/

Here are just a few from the list:

Blooming Desert Lotus Sangha

Northwest Valley and Sun Cities

15826 Del Webb Blvd., Sun City, AZ

Sunland Memorial Park Office

Sundays 10:00am - 11:30am

Different site Thursday. Call for directions and details

Beginners welcome

BodhiHeart Dharma Center

2538 N. 55th Street

Phoenix, AZ 85008

Meditations on Wednesday and a teaching on Sunday, both at 7PM. Frequent special events and visits by Buddhist Masters.

One of the goals at BodhiHeart is to work with all Buddhist groups as well as developing strong interfaith connections.

Desert Cactus Sangha

Call 602-952-0915 for location information.

First Sunday of each month 9am to Noon.

(Please see the 2009 schedule for directions)

Desert Lotus Sangha

Valley Unitarian Universalist Church

6400 W. Del Rio St., Chandler

Sittings: Monday 7:15pm, most Thursdays 6:30am, first Saturday of month 9am-12pm Retreat.

Affiliate of Pacific Zen Institute working primarily with John Tarrant Roshi.

Empty Sky Sangha

Paradise Valley

We are a Zen Buddhist sangha affiliated with the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Principal Teacher is Paul Haller, current Abbot of SFZC. We are located in Paradise Valley and sit on Sunday afternoons from 4:30 to 5:30 with tea and discussion from 5:30 to 6:30.

We have a one day sit once a month also on Sundays. Anyone interested in Zen Budddhist meditation and practice are welcome.

Karma Thegsum Choling

Tempe, 605 E. Broadway, Suite 5. Beginners welcome. Call for details. Study groups on Tuesday and Thursday, 7:00pm meditation, 7:30pm study group. Third weekend of month - seminar with Erma Pounds.

Affiliate centers are located in Prescott, Payson, Cottonwood and Sedona.

Myung Wol Zen Center

Hayden & Thomas Road area. P.O. Box 11084, Scottsdale, AZ 85271-1084. Affiliate of Kwan Um School of Zen. lineage of Korean ZM Seung Sahn. Weekly practice: Wednesday 7:00pm, Sunday at 10:00am Chanting, meditation, Koan interviews. 1-day retreats bi-monthly, 3-day on Labor Day and Memorial Day weekends. Call for information and directions.

Phoenix Rising Vipassana Group

Tempe. Currently meeting at 7pm on Tuesdays. Currently, we have a reading or dharma talk and discussion the first Tuesday of the month. The other Tuesdays including sitting and walking, but participants may sit the entire time. Our practice is based upon the teachings of Jack Kornfield and the Insight Meditation Society. Please call for directions.

PHXVipassana

A website that supports those practicing or wishing to practice mindfulness meditation in the Phoenix, AZ area via listings of events and items of interest such as books, movies, quotes, art, photos and more.

Shambhala Phoenix Meditation Group

1202 E Maryland, Suite 2A (on second floor), Phoenix, AZ 85014

MEDITATION SCHEDULE

Wednesdays, 7:00-7:30 p.m.

Followed by tea and a Book Discussion or video series.

Meditation sessions and instruction are free and open to the

public.

Sundays, 10:00-11:00 a.m.

Followed by tea and a Book Discussion or video series

Meditation instructors are available at most sessions. Meditation sessions and instruction are free and open to the public, we do accept donations.

Nyinthun meditation is held on the fourth Sunday of the month (4 hours.)

Sunrise Sangha

Phoenix/Paradise Valley, 4207 E. Lincoln Dr. Group meets downstairs at Unitarian Universalist Church Saturdays 7:00-9:00am. Last Saturday of the month meets elsewhere. Coffee and open discussion afterward. Respectful of all Buddhist/meditation traditions. Please call for place and times.

Prescott

Prescott Vipassana Sangha

134 Garden Street

Prescott, AZ 86305

Tuesday evening meditation and discussion. Also meditation retreats in the Vipassana tradition. Please see the Prescott Vipassana Sangha Web Site for details.

thanks Sabaijai, I appreciate all the info... I don't think my abbot is agains't having a Dhuta program, he just isn't sure how to start one. Me neither...

[khaowong1]

If you ask me, the general Western interested public is looking for answers, for some wisdom, for insight at the best, they certainly are not looking to restore some old or to build up some new form of authority. Individuality, freedom, equality and brotherhood are the topics of post modern time.

I do adept Thai customs when in Thailand but I do not think I will behave the same way in a western country since it is no custom there and I see no reason

to bow for munks outside Thailand or to specifically sit on the floor.

To me this is no part of Dhamma or any other practice it is just way of culture.

There are many Westerners who want to know about Buddhism from the source....monks...rather than just browsing forums. They naturally have a simple shallow understanding at first and find attractive the various ceremonies and chanting etc.

In the Buddha's time the monks went out all over the place after they had sufficient knowledge of how to practice. Their example impressed some lay people who came to ask them who their teacher was and what was his teaching...this is not the same as going and trying to force your religion on others.

Bowing to monks is done because we know how difficult it is just to keep the five precepts...let alone the 227 rules a monk has to. If we respect them, we show respect to them...this is one way of making merit.

Asians grew up mostly without any furniture in their homes so they are used to sitting upon the floor. It is customary to sit at the same level as a monk, or lower than them, to show respect to them and especially when they are teaching the Dhamma to show respect to the Dhamma.

I had an idea of a getting together of the American monks in Thailand and discussing the problems of the Wats in the U.S. I'm only mentioning the American monks because I am an American. Do you think this idea has any merit? so to speak..

The community of Thai temples in the USA is primarily intended to serve Thais, obviously, so I have my doubts that the US Thai Sangha council would be interested. They may presume, as I did, that since there are already so many Theravada centres serving English speakers (outnumbering the Thai, most likely), that establishing an English-speaking program across the board is not a priority, even if some states, such as Arizona, are under-represented.

I have a feeling most American monks in Thailand would suggest establishing more American monasteries like Wat Abhayagiri rather than trying to infiltrate the existing Thai ones. But you should ask around the next time you're in Thailand, who knows. It's an interesting idea. Well worth exploring, I think.

I'm not sure it would be worth doing it in the states that already have a lot of options for English speakers though.

I also wonder how the Thai lay community would react to having American beginners clomping around the temples with their shoes on, etc.

thanks again Sabaijai.. I can always count on you for some help.

(I also wonder how the Thai lay community would react to having American beginners clomping around the temples with their shoes on, etc.)

I was teaching about Buddhism to a class of senior high school students at the Phoenix temple one day last year, and two of the girl students showed up in very short shorts.. this didn't go over so well.

[khaowong1]

I had an idea of a getting together of the American monks in Thailand and discussing the problems of the Wats in the U.S. I'm only mentioning the American monks because I am an American. Do you think this idea has any merit? so to speak..[/size][/font]

First of all, yes, I think your idea definitely has merit.

One question worth asking is what is the purpose of a Thai Buddhist temple in America. I've been to several, but the language problem makes it a little impractical. My impression is that -- for the most part -- the Thai Buddhist temples in America are designed for Thai expatriates. When an American comes in, unless they come with Thai people, they are often seen almost as tourists. It seems to me that every Thai Buddhist temple in America ought to have an "outreach person", not necessarily a monk, but someone whose main task is to help those interested to be more comfortable in the Buddhist community. And, to be frank, I think any Buddhist monk who is going to live in America, ought to learn a passable level of English...just as expat teachers in Thailand once had to do (not sure if that is still required, but it ought to be).

thanks phetaroi... this is the kind of suggestion I was looking for. I also believe that any Buddist monk who lives in any other country but his native country, should learn to speak the language. My Thai is not real good, but I learn to communicate with the other monks and lay people here in Thailand.

[sabaijai]

Forest Hermitage - U.K.

The vast majority of visitors to the Forest Hermitage are Thai with a few Burmese & Sri Lankans. There are some farang visitors but they tend to be the hubbies of the Thai wives who visit.

The abbot is English and most of the other monks are farang, so any farang visitor can receive information on Buddhism in English, and that's what Phra khaowong1 was concerned about. Meditation classes are held in English only, and the newsletter is published in English only, so most of the teaching - if not all - appears to be in English.

[sabaijai]

I just came across this news item about English-language meditation classes at a Thai wat in Tucson.

Learn how to meditate and more at Wat Buddhametta

by Mark B. Evans on Aug. 24, 2010

Learn how to meditate and more at Wat Buddhametta: Tucson Buddhist Meditation Center in the beautiful Buddha room.

Guided meditation Sun. at 3 p.m. and a silent meditation at 7 p.m. Sessions are 90 minutes and include sitting and walking meditation.

Class to learn chanting in Pali, Mon. 6:30-7:30 p.m..

Class to learn the history, traditions, and practices of Buddhism, Wed. 6-7:30 p.m..

Evening meditation, chanting, and Dhamma talk, first and third Sat. 6:30-8:30 pm.

Celebration and fundraiser the last Sun. of the month 9:30 a.m.-2:30 p.m. including alms, guest monks, and Thai lunch.

All sessions are with Ajahn Sarayut, a Theravada Buddhist monk for more than 25 years.

Come and meditate with us at to explore mindfulness and peacefulness.

Beginners to advanced welcome, seating available with cushions or in chairs.

All events free.

For more information see http://www.tucsonbuddhistcenter.org/ or call 520-745-4624. May you be well, happy, and mindful.