Forgery On Joint Bank Account

[robsay]

I have just discovered that my Thai girlfriend (now ex) forged my signature and has withdrawn 2.4 million baht from an account that I jointly held with her. Do I go to the bank or do I approach the tourist or everyday Police? Which is going to give me the best outcome? I am perplexed at how the bank could have let her withdraw such an amount without an element of collusion. Is there a law firm anyone can recommend that would be good to deal with this? Its a financial inconvenience rather than a crisis, to put the money in context, but nevertheless I am angry and I want to see justice done i.e. see her end up in jail! I assume this is a crime in Thailand?

[gotlost]

How can you have a joint account and the authorized partner forges a signature?

[LaoPo]

How can you have a joint account and the authorized partner forges a signature?

Probably had limited access with her own signature.

to the OP:

I would hire a very good Financial specialist Lawyer's office and have a first talk.

LaoPo

[robsay]

LaoPo - thank you for the reply. Is this to suggest that the Police would not consider her act to be of a criminal nature? Separately would be obliged for a pointer to a good law firm as per your advice.

[gotlost]

For the OP. I hope and I'm sure you also get your money back. Wish you the best.

[BWPattaya]

Let me get this right. It was a joint account to which she obviously had access. Did she need your signature to make withdrawals? If not she must have had authorisation to withdraw money independently, without your knowledge or approval. Hence, she hasn't broken any laaw has she? Why on earth did you make so much money available to her and not anticipate this happening?

[PattayaParent]

When I set up a joint accoun the bank gave the options for either named person to sign to withdraw, OR, both named persons must sign to withdraw.

The both named option hardly seems worth it if both persons don't need to be present.

Your ex must have been a good forger, wonder what else she signed your name to?

[gotlost]

Whats the odds of the OP not doing this again?

[aurelius]

Forging a signature is a matter for the police. You'll need to make a statement and lodge a claim at the police station. Its probably helpful if you have a copy of the cheque which you can request from the bank (although they might require both your signatures to get it!). The police may need to request further evidence from the bank such as the account opening forms and specimen signatures. I guess there are 2 aspects - proving that she forged it and determining whether or not the bank should have been able to determine that it was forged. The latter could be considered negligent if the signature was significantly different. Else its going to boil down to a writing expert. Most likely the police will need some incentive (covering their costs of investigation) to keep the case rolling along nicely. Most likely you should try to settle with her / family - get some third party to offer to negotiate between you. Don't get yourself killed in the process - not worth it.

[BWPattaya]

It has just occurred to me - how do you know it was her and not someone else who withdrew the money?

[seaeagle]

As others have indicated, 2 signing possibilities are available on a joint account : either account holder, or both account holders. In almost all cases, people tend to choose the either option.

However, if that were the case, she wouldn't need to forge your signature, she could just withdraw on her own.

If the amounts were withdrawn in cash, then all bank counters have CCTV, and the other signatory would've been there, I'm sure. If the amounts were taken by way of a cheque made out to a 3rd party, and your signature forged on the cheque, then I would guess that, especially here, the burden of proof will lie with you.

Good luck, mate.

[lannarebirth]

I can't remember the last time I signed for a withdrawl and I didn't have to present my passport for copying. How did she get around that detail?

[sarahsbloke]

I never thought joint bank accounts were a good idea in any country.

My money is in an account with only my name on it.

Sadly I think this money is gone for good, the temptation was too great for the lady in question.

Legal means of recovery will take a lot of time and money, and generate bitterness on your part over a long period of time.

I wouldn't chase her, I would learn from my mistake and move on, but then that's me, forgive and forget (if you can).

Edited August 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[sarahsbloke]

I can't remember the last time I signed for a withdrawal and I didn't have to present my passport for copying. How did she get around that detail?

Photocopy of passport with owners signature on it is widely accepted everywhere in Thailand.

(Along with person presenting the photocopy handing in their ID card for photocopying)

Edited August 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[beano2274]

Whenever I make a withdrawal the bank always ask for passport and Bank Book, I have banked at the branch for 4 years and go there maybe three times a year, they always ask, and I always have the items with me.

[PattayaParent]

^depends on the experience of the teller I guess.

One time I had a teller that didn't know what she was doing and was getting so confused she didn't even ask me for my ID.

And only yesterday I got a new bank book and had to tell the teller that he had to remove the page at the back with the signatures on it.

[BWPattaya]

I have never been asked for id, passport or driving licence when making deposits or withdrawals. I have used my passbook or ATM card (not in an ATM machine) inside the bank.

[PoeDogg]

Here is a lawyer that I am currently using on a case "same, same, but different" from yours.

Good English, U.S. educated, and came some-what recommended here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/339979-looking-for-lawyers-in-thailand/page__p__3351021__hl__the+master+thai+law+office__fromsearch__1#entry3351021

Out of the five lawyers that I contacted, his replies were the best, so I hired him. Seems to be doing an ok job so far, just be sure to point out how often you need an update. I didn’t at first, and would not hear anything until I contacted him. But, told him I needed updates every Friday, and now everything is fine.

The Master Thai Law Office

565/63 Moo 10 (opposite Big-C) South Pattaya Rd.,

Nongprue, Banglamung, Chonburi 20150

Mr. Boonsom

Also, depending on the tax laws in your country you might....MIGHT be able to write this off as theft.....I am dam_n sure going to try to on mine!

And you may want to leave the country when/before she finds out you have a lawyer after her, as I am sure she can find a hitman for a lot less than 2.4 mil.

Good luck.

[electau]

I would first go to the bank and take your ID with you eg passport and check your account.

It would appear that you had a current account (cheque) not a savings account? If the amount was withdrawn by a cheque you can check the signature. How do you know she forged your signature if you have not sighted the original transaction signature?

If it was a joint savings account (bank passbook) the signature will be on the withdrawal slip.

Was only one signature was required to withdrawals, either yours or hers?

　

Edited September 28, 2010 by electau

[billd766]

I never thought joint bank accounts were a good idea in any country.

My money is in an account with only my name on it.

Sadly I think this money is gone for good, the temptation was too great for the lady in question.

Legal means of recovery will take a lot of time and money, and generate bitterness on your part over a long period of time.

I wouldn't chase her, I would learn from my mistake and move on, but then that's me, forgive and forget (if you can).

Strangely enough I am just the opposite.

I always had a joint account with my first wife from the UK and saw no reason to be different with my (2nd) Thai wife.

She was on most of my credit cards when I had them and up here in the village she has her own account, we have a joint account and I have my own account mainly for visa extension purposes.

I figured that if I can't trust my wife then who can I trust?

Me?

Not really, got it, spend it was my way for years but she slowly re-educated me.

[bdenner]

In Australia if the banks release funds on a forged signature they are liable, I know from personal experience. The Thai banks are slowly Westernizing (adding more charges etc.) so one might be covered by similar covernances. If you get no joy from them see a lawyer.

At the end of the day an expensive lesson learned. Hope more of the star gazers are reading this thread.

Edited September 29, 2010 by bdenner