Warning Big C South Pattaya

[basjke]

I just wanted to put this out as a warning for those who regulary shop at Big C south pattaya.

I normally dont but this evening I went in to look if they had some reasonable priced chicken nuggets,which they had by the way,and noticed that the complete frozen food departement was defrosted.I mean ALL the freezers,closed and open ones,had their good completely defrosted.Everything was soft,icecream was water.The Led indicator on the freezers however showed -21 degrees.Probably they have had an extended electricity problem as it are seperate units and they all showed the same problem.

So just take heed of it as I doubt that they will replace any of the food items inside and refrozen food can cause food poisoning.

[Boater]

Thais don't understand food hygiene . I bought some frozan food from makro . Missus defrosdted and cooked , then re frooze ! I told her she shouldn't but she has cooked and frizze the same thing 5 times ... I won't eat it

[bartender100]

Thais don't understand food hygiene . I bought some frozan food from makro . Missus defrosdted and cooked , then re frooze ! I told her she shouldn't but she has cooked and frizze the same thing 5 times ... I won't eat it

You can defrost raw food, cook and refreeze with no problem

[syd barrett]

Thanks for the heads-up.

However, do consider that frozen food does stay frozen for quite a while during a power-cut. (My ice cubes in my freezer stay solid for 12 hours plus, during a power-cut). There was obviously a power failure here and don't forget we are already in an air-con supermarket, not a 90 degree Soi.

If the food sits for days and rots then re-freezing will mean bad food. But non-meat and fish products could safely be re-frozen within 24 hours.

Except for chicken products, re-freezing would mean only bad-tasting rotten foods. In the case of chicken where bacteria thrives in the internal organs then possible food poisoning could occur.

I have experienced severe food poisoning on several occasions in Pattaya and I suggest that the biggest risk is from ready-cooked food in Supermarkets or street-sold food. Frozen food in plastic sealed packets that has thawed and been re-frozen is at the bottom of the risk list.

This is not a criticism of your post, just a non-alarmist response to the risks.

Thanks.

[basjke]

Thanks for the heads-up.

However, do consider that frozen food does stay frozen for quite a while during a power-cut. (My ice cubes in my freezer stay solid for 12 hours plus, during a power-cut). There was obviously a power failure here and don't forget we are already in an air-con supermarket, not a 90 degree Soi.

If the food sits for days and rots then re-freezing will mean bad food. But non-meat and fish products could safely be re-frozen within 24 hours.

Except for chicken products, re-freezing would mean only bad-tasting rotten foods. In the case of chicken where bacteria thrives in the internal organs then possible food poisoning could occur.

I have experienced severe food poisoning on several occasions in Pattaya and I suggest that the biggest risk is from ready-cooked food in Supermarkets or street-sold food. Frozen food in plastic sealed packets that has thawed and been re-frozen is at the bottom of the risk list.

This is not a criticism of your post, just a non-alarmist response to the risks.

Thanks.

As I said in the OP Syd,all the food items in the freezers were soft.They were completely defrosted.

The reason twice frozen food is bad is because the second freezing disrupts the cells in the food. lyces them or punctures their membrane. This makes all the nutrients from inside the cell available to bacteria without the protection of the cell wall. Food spoils very rapidly.

[raro]

thanks a lot for the heads-up! Yet another reason for me to stick with fresh produce and avoid anything frozen...

[craigt3365]

Exactly the reason I never ate ice cream when I was in South American. It routinely gets defrosted, goes bad, then refrozen and sold to you. I met a few travelers who got sick on ice cream bars...

[sohn]

thanks a lot for the heads-up! Yet another reason for me to stick with fresh produce and avoid anything frozen...

Good advice.

No real need for frozen stuff, loads of real fresh local stuff around,

[bkkjames]

If someone could invent a package that would tell you if something has previously been thawed  / refrozen would be a very rich person.

[Phil Conners]

I'm sure it already exist and cost virtually nothing to produce, but you think the frozen food producers have any interest in such a gadget?

[bkkjames]

I'm sure it already exist and cost virtually nothing to produce, but you think the frozen food producers have any interest in such a gadget?

Maybe not all but imagine one that took the initiative and backed it up with proper marketing? 

[buddy]

thanks a lot for the heads-up! Yet another reason for me to stick with fresh produce and avoid anything frozen...

Dont discount frozen food so quickly.

Many frozen foods are more nutritious and hold the vitamin content etc longer than many so called "fresh" foods that may not have been refrigerated on route to the point of sale.

It is a well known fact that Third World or developing Countries waste billions of dollars by not having a "Cold chain" in place from "Farm to Fork" to prevent wastage of food (attached file just on Fruit and veg on a few sample Countries, source United Nations).

Many Farmers efforts are wasted, agricultural farm land is set aside for no reason, Farmers rear and slaughter animals for no reason, animal feed is produced for no reason, water, logistics, fuel, labour, are all wasted as the food rots or is not fit for human consumption before it reaches market.

Normally a Big C type of Supermarket would have a back up generator to supply electricity in case of failure of the mains power, the indication that you were still shopping in the store says they had power.

It may have been the case that they had a catostrophic failure of the Central Refrigeration plant (called Compressor Rack or Compressor Pack) that serves all the refrigerated cabinets on the low temperature system or the monitoring system that serves it, and normally the frozen food system is hooked up as a critical priority supply on the standby generator system (is it?), it also depends on the store manager how he handles critical operational defects.

Catastrophic failure of the whole Compressor Pack Refrigeration system is a relatively rare event as there are many many safety,s, safeguards and backup redundant refrigeration capacity built into the system to prevent this, including local and remote sophisticated electronic alarm and internet monitoring systems.

One issue I do have about Thailand is that the Thai Governments will not seriously invest in vocational training schools for Refrigeration Technicians, the feedback from other Falangs who have set up technical training schools in different trades is the Government officials view it as a money making scam to line thier pockets, they provide start up funds that are usually very small so the Falang has to contribute, they wait for the operation to be successful, and say give it a couple of years and then they hijack the training school and divert the funds into thier own pockets (corruption)....then obviously the training school fails, ulimately Thailand suffers.

So all this is just guessing but it may have been the case that no attendance to what ever the breakdown was had taken place or because this type of breakdown is under a critical timeline the Refrigeration "Technician" will be under extreme pressure and perhaps couldnt fix it in time due to lack of proper training or experience before the frozen products started defrosting.

The good news for Thailand is that for those that critisize the global retailers like Tesco Lotus, Carrefour etc is that these company,s do set standards, monitor temperatures and develop Cold chains in the countries they operate in, so save huge amounts of food, Farmers efforts and resources that otherwise would be wasted.

It is estimated that if every country in the World had a fully developed refrigerated chilled and frozen Cold chain from "Farm to Fork" the World could be free of hunger.

Something to think about next time your pushing your shopping trolley around the Supermarket.

Wastage around the world.pdf

[Spalpeen]

Who says the Thais don't take food safety seriously? I saw this sign at a market in Poi Pet a few days ago.

[sohn]

thanks a lot for the heads-up! Yet another reason for me to stick with fresh produce and avoid anything frozen...

It is estimated that if every country in the World had a fully developed refrigerated chilled and frozen Cold chain from "Farm to Fork" the World could be free of hunger.

All very good,

but just dont buy the last bit.

think there are a few more factors than refrigerated chilled and frozen Cold chains (farm to fork) for the world food issues ( hunger)

Edited August 16, 2010 by sohn

[buddy]

If someone could invent a package that would tell you if something has previously been thawed / refrozen would be a very rich person.

This has already been looked at, but with the added cost to the product customers wont pay for it.

Re-frozen food doesnt normally figure into peoples shopping psychology, especially seeing the incidences are quite low (in developed Counties anyway).

[buddy]

All very good,

but just dont buy the last bit.

think there are a few more factors than refrigerated chilled and frozen Cold chains (farm to fork) for the world food issues ( hunger)

The statement on hunger would be for an ideal world, it doesnt take into account where warfare, pestilance, drought, other natural disasters, political and other external factors all taking a toll on the actual food produced on the farm and delivered to the table.

There will always be countries that have these problems and Countries that have to import food to feed all thier people, however even these importing Countries need to have cold chains in place to deliver and prevent internal food waste at dockside/landside from the ports or airports to the point of sale.

What is the purpose of all the efforts of the farmers in the exporting Countries, the costs, the needlesly slaughtered animals, the logistics, shipping/flights for it then to be wasted and rot in the importing Country just because they dont have a Cold chain in place, the importing countries pay for the food then let it rot?....it justs makes the importing Country poorer (Cold chain priority issues).

What I am saying is that what food is actually produced say in politicaly stable countries that have the requesites for ample food production, sufficient sunshine, water, fertile land, labour, infrastrucure etc etc, all the food leaving the farm gates is not getting to the table because of huge amounts of waste.

So the "surplus" of food, if i can use that term, or the percentage of the food that has been saved by the Cold chain is what can feed the hungry of the World.

As a cold chain is invisble to most people, (its a hidden benifit of the modern era), Refrigerated Cold chains are proven without a shadow of doubt to be critical for a countries development, please note that third World countries dont develop to become first World Countries with out refrigeration & Cold chains.

Cold chains are not only involved in preventing food waste, but preserving seeds essential to the next years harvest, preserving artificial insemination sperm of farm animals, vaccines, medical supplies, pharmacuticals, manufacturing essentials etc the list is literaly endless, many items are preserved in a Cold chain are essential to the health of a Nation or saving the life of an individual (it could be your life).

I know some one is going to spike up and say well what did they do in the old days with out Cold chains...well they lived in caves, wild animals attacked you, you had stunted growth, you died young, you starved, you died from the slightest scratch or ailment, food poisening killed you, food was scarce and subject to the ravages of the seasons etc.

I,m sure the most hardiest of us dont want to regress into the past on these issues.

[bobbin]

Thank you Buddy, for taking the time to make those informative posts.

ThaiVisa working well here, with knowledge being shared. :jap:

[buddy]

Thank you Buddy, for taking the time to make those informative posts.

ThaiVisa working well here, with knowledge being shared. :jap:

Thank you for the compliment Bobbin,

My comments hopefully convey a good example of Cold Chain importance and Falangs willing (and not make a million Dollar business out of it as the motivation), to transfer Falang" Technology and training to International standards to benefit Thailand.

This training and knowledge transfer would directly assist Thailand and give a lift up to any Thai aspiring Technicians who COULD be trained to International standards, it would be a life changing moment for an enthusiastic teenager from the rice fields of Isaan to be chosen to have the opportunity to be a "properly" certified trained Technician.

People from 1st World Countries expect a certain standard, Its almost a god given right, they individually or a company only have to pick up the phone and normally work is performed to a certain standard.

We all complain about cowboy builders purely because we have a set of standards we expect to be delivered, this standard just doesnt get delivered and appear out of thin air, there is a huge invisible training machine (forgive the pun) involved, the Engineer/Technician/Mechanic/Heating/Refrigeration Engineer etc has more than likely had to work many many years to gain qualifications before being let out on their own or work in a Technical team, and if its a hands on trade he would have gained these qualifications through a vocational training school or College, which i repeat is mostly invisible to the general public....this is the starting difference between the West and Thailand (1st World Countries versus 3rd World Countries).

Westerners and I include the Governments in 1st World Countries, Japan, Australia etc, financially support vocational training as these Governments positively reckognise how vitaly important it is to the advancement and development of the Nation and peoples safety, Engineering talent also has great overseas earning potential (how many Expat Engineers/Pilots/Trainers/Engineers/Techs/Managers/Oil & Gas etc etc already work in Thailand?).

Who ever wants any old Cowboy with no official certification and training walking in off the street fitting your gas boiler or Central heating system, nobody, lest you want you or your family to die by Carbon Monoxide poisening or blown to little fleshy bits whilst asleep?

We all had breaks at some time in our life, some people call them "life opportunities", a poor Thai Farmers son has few life opportunities to better himself or his family even if he wished to be say a Refrigeratiion Technicain, by the very fact he and his family cannot afford the fees for the training I am talking about, so assistance for him is required from the Thai Government.

Most of the trade "technicians" in Thailand just learn bad habits from one generation and pass it onto the next generation and so on, (not all, mainly Japanese motor trade) and culturaly a younger Thai guy will not normally criticize the older Thai guy even when he sees something wrong, and Boon Khun could also be a factor of his employment.

Just look out on the street at the wiring, the air-con standards, plumbing and poor standards of buildings and Thai infrastructure etc...this is mostly the result of no trade standards being set by vocational training schools because they dont exist, obviously pride in the workers own workmanship, deadlines and other factors may also have a play.

The will and training material, experience (hands on and management) is all readily available from Falangs with the requisite skills to deliver, but the corrupt officials of Thailand YET AGAIN prevent this and steal from thier own?

Vocational Technical training Colleges working to International standards is sorely needed in Thailand for setting a benchmark for a safe secure environment.

Its the only way forward!

[rubik101]

1st; why would any sane person buy chcken nuggets? Do you know what they are made from? MRM is Mechanically Recovered Meat; it means it is ALL the non-bone material forced from a carcass by a steam jet of superheated water. The resultant slurry is dried and compressed into such foods as chicken nuggets, chicken burgers etc. If you enjoy eating slurried brain matter and eyes, along with skin, cartilage and sinew, please carry on.

2nd; why would anyone in Thailand buy frozen food? There is an abundance of fresh food and the freezer should be exclusively for the ice cubes in your drinks. Also, the microwave should be sold or buried in the garden.

3rd; if you ever feel tempted to use frozen food or the microwave, remember that all the 'kitchen nightmares' feature both until they are shown the error of their ways.

Any frozen food that has defrosted and been refrozen is dangerous, if it was chciken or fish, it is potentiallly lethal.

[basjke]

1st; why would any sane person buy chcken nuggets? Do you know what they are made from? MRM is Mechanically Recovered Meat; it means it is ALL the non-bone material forced from a carcass by a steam jet of superheated water. The resultant slurry is dried and compressed into such foods as chicken nuggets, chicken burgers etc. If you enjoy eating slurried brain matter and eyes, along with skin, cartilage and sinew, please carry on.

2nd; why would anyone in Thailand buy frozen food? There is an abundance of fresh food and the freezer should be exclusively for the ice cubes in your drinks. Also, the microwave should be sold or buried in the garden.

3rd; if you ever feel tempted to use frozen food or the microwave, remember that all the 'kitchen nightmares' feature both until they are shown the error of their ways.

Any frozen food that has defrosted and been refrozen is dangerous, if it was chciken or fish, it is potentiallly lethal.

If nobody would eat chicken nuggets they wouldn't produce them I guess.Same goes for hamburgers,sausages and so on.By the way in Issaan skin,eyes and brain matter are a delicatesse.

As for frozen food in whole,what is wrong with it?If there were no freezers,every day a lot of fresh food would need to be thrown away.Thank goodness we can freeze it and still eat it fresh at a later date.Of course it should be treated the right way,but that is another story.

As for the microwave should be buried,100 years ago when the first train locomotives were invented they also said it was a devils invention.

[Benjie]

1st; why would any sane person buy chcken nuggets? Do you know what they are made from? MRM is Mechanically Recovered Meat; it means it is ALL the non-bone material forced from a carcass by a steam jet of superheated water. The resultant slurry is dried and compressed into such foods as chicken nuggets, chicken burgers etc. If you enjoy eating slurried brain matter and eyes, along with skin, cartilage and sinew, please carry on.

2nd; why would anyone in Thailand buy frozen food? There is an abundance of fresh food and the freezer should be exclusively for the ice cubes in your drinks. Also, the microwave should be sold or buried in the garden.

3rd; if you ever feel tempted to use frozen food or the microwave, remember that all the 'kitchen nightmares' feature both until they are shown the error of their ways.

Any frozen food that has defrosted and been refrozen is dangerous, if it was chciken or fish, it is potentiallly lethal.

What do you think Sausages are made from?

[craigt3365]

1st; why would any sane person buy chcken nuggets? Do you know what they are made from? MRM is Mechanically Recovered Meat; it means it is ALL the non-bone material forced from a carcass by a steam jet of superheated water. The resultant slurry is dried and compressed into such foods as chicken nuggets, chicken burgers etc. If you enjoy eating slurried brain matter and eyes, along with skin, cartilage and sinew, please carry on.

2nd; why would anyone in Thailand buy frozen food? There is an abundance of fresh food and the freezer should be exclusively for the ice cubes in your drinks. Also, the microwave should be sold or buried in the garden.

3rd; if you ever feel tempted to use frozen food or the microwave, remember that all the 'kitchen nightmares' feature both until they are shown the error of their ways.

Any frozen food that has defrosted and been refrozen is dangerous, if it was chciken or fish, it is potentiallly lethal.

We moved over here in December. We lived here before, but in a condo in Bangkok...where we ate out a lot. In the US, our freezer was always so full we had to repack fairly often to make more room for stuff. Now, it's mainly full of ice, cold beer mugs, some ice cream, and a few frozen steaks and/or chicken/pork. That's it! We hardly ever eat anything frozen. Interesting change of lifestyle....and for the better I am sure!

[QED]

1st; why would any sane person buy chcken nuggets? Do you know what they are made from? MRM is Mechanically Recovered Meat; it means it is ALL the non-bone material forced from a carcass by a steam jet of superheated water. The resultant slurry is dried and compressed into such foods as chicken nuggets, chicken burgers etc. If you enjoy eating slurried brain matter and eyes, along with skin, cartilage and sinew, please carry on.

2nd; why would anyone in Thailand buy frozen food? There is an abundance of fresh food and the freezer should be exclusively for the ice cubes in your drinks. Also, the microwave should be sold or buried in the garden.

3rd; if you ever feel tempted to use frozen food or the microwave, remember that all the 'kitchen nightmares' feature both until they are shown the error of their ways.

Any frozen food that has defrosted and been refrozen is dangerous, if it was chciken or fish, it is potentiallly lethal.

Don't be so bloody condescending!

I live alone and like to cook. I generally cook large batches, then portion up and freeze the leftovers, so my freezer is full of individual curries, chilli con carne, lasagne etc, which make easy meals during the week when I am working and don't have the time or inclination to cook.

And guess how you reheat these frozen delights - in the microwave!

Also bread - I am fed up with buying a loaf, using 2 slices and having to throw it away. Keep it in the freezer, remove what you need and defrost on a plate at room temperature for 10 mins, and it is as good as the day you bought it.

Yes there is plenty of ice in there as well, and certainly no chicken nuggets!

[tropo]

I know some one is going to spike up and say well what did they do in the old days with out Cold chains...well they lived in caves, wild animals attacked you, you had stunted growth, you died young, you starved, you died from the slightest scratch or ailment, food poisening killed you, food was scarce and subject to the ravages of the seasons etc.

I,m sure the most hardiest of us dont want to regress into the past on these issues.

You're exaggerating here because refrigerators haven't been in common use for very long. People did quite well before refrigerators were invented and weren't living in caves.

Most poorer Asian communities shop daily for perishables and don't require cold storage. I don't think many of these people live in caves where wild animals attack them. If there were any wild animals about they (the wild animals) would soon become fresh food.

[tropo]

2nd; why would anyone in Thailand buy frozen food? There is an abundance of fresh food and the freezer should be exclusively for the ice cubes in your drinks. Also, the microwave should be sold or buried in the garden.

I use frozen food all the time. I buy meat and freeze it. The reason - convenience. It saves me from shopping everyday.

There is a lot of controvesy about the microwave oven. Do you have any compelling scientific evidence to offer before I bury mine in the garden.

[buddy]

1st; why would any sane person buy chcken nuggets? Do you know what they are made from? MRM is Mechanically Recovered Meat; it means it is ALL the non-bone material forced from a carcass by a steam jet of superheated water. The resultant slurry is dried and compressed into such foods as chicken nuggets, chicken burgers etc. If you enjoy eating slurried brain matter and eyes, along with skin, cartilage and sinew, please carry on.

Must be something in Chicken Nuggets other than Chickens faces as they are fighting over them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSaRmc6WzRg&feature=topvideos

Mamma, Ive gotta have my Chicken Nuggets now, Ive gotta have my Chicken Nuggets (feet stamping on the floor)....

Yikes!

[buddy]

I know some one is going to spike up and say well what did they do in the old days with out Cold chains...well they lived in caves, wild animals attacked you, you had stunted growth, you died young, you starved, you died from the slightest scratch or ailment, food poisening killed you, food was scarce and subject to the ravages of the seasons etc.

I,m sure the most hardiest of us dont want to regress into the past on these issues.

You're exaggerating here because refrigerators haven't been in common use for very long. People did quite well before refrigerators were invented and weren't living in caves.

Most poorer Asian communities shop daily for perishables and don't require cold storage. I don't think many of these people live in caves where wild animals attack them. If there were any wild animals about they (the wild animals) would soon become fresh food.

Ok I was exaggerating slightly, hopefully to make a point as those statements cover a long history of time.

The point I was trying to make is the modern era, including the Space age, Internet age, Oil & Gas extraction, Modern Medicine, preservation of food to support the Worlds growing population etc would not have happened with out refrigeration. There is a massive sleeping giant of a Refrigeration industry out there that people are not aware of and just take for granted that is absolutely essential for todays modern lifestyle, this also includes Air-conditioning as a spin off from Refrigeration Technologies.

No single inventor can claim the pole position for inventing refrigeration, however the mechanical process started in England in the 1700,s and before mechanical domestic refrigeration systems were introduced in the early 1900,s which replaced the ice box or ice safe, people cooled their food with ice and snow, either found locally or brought down from the mountains. The first cool cellars were holes dug into the ground and lined with wood or straw and packed with snow and ice, this was the only means of refrigeration for most of history.

I agree with your point that most poorer Asia communities shop daily for perishables at wet food markets and hot meat stalls, and without boring you with the physiology and autolysis of food spoilage its an apt word "perishables" as the spoilage en route from "farm to fork" of these perishables is what you you personally dont see as they cannot sell the spoiled tainted food, you only see what has survived to the wet market and hot meat stall at the point of sale.

A fridge is normally the first modern appliance most poor people buy when they have the cash saved up, Ive asked my Thai Wife and a couple of her friends and they say buy Fridge first as the priority then buy TV, Motocy etc, so they do know the benefits of owning a Fridge.

That oblong shaped box that silently sits on the corner of your room or kitchen called a Domestic Refrigerator that is now classed as a kitchen appliance has a long proud history, it also runs silently and (mostly) efficiently for 24 hours a day, 365 days a year trouble free for sometimes decades.

Just think how much we take Refrigeration and its related spin off Air-conditioning for granted next time you are a grumpy sweaty heap, or eating at a restaurant, drinking at a bar or reaching for that Cold can of Coke or Cold beer at home?

[sohn]

name='buddy' timestamp='1282103524' post='3822539']

A fridge is normally the first modern appliance most poor people buy when they have the cash saved up, Ive asked my Thai Wife and a couple of her friends and they say buy Fridge first as the priority then buy TV, Motocy etc, so they do know the benefits of owning a Fridge.

Wrong

It’s a karaoke machine and TV, then maybe fridge.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Rimmer
It is against forum rules to modify someone elses text

[sohn]

Never new Color change was a big deal :jap:

Edited August 18, 2010 by sohn

[Semper]

name='buddy' timestamp='1282103524' post='3822539']

A fridge is normally the first modern appliance most poor people buy when they have the cash saved up, Ive asked my Thai Wife and a couple of her friends and they say buy Fridge first as the priority then buy TV, Motocy etc, so they do know the benefits of owning a Fridge.

Wrong

It’s a karaoke machine and TV, then maybe fridge.

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