Urgent.Baby Cobra In House

[Muppetbkk]

Hi,

We had a baby cobra in the house this morning, about 2 inches long. The security guards came and killed it. The dog sniffed it out behind the waste paper bin, and my gf called security. The problem i now have is that i am supposed to be moving house this week and am afraid that there could be more of them in boxes i have stored in the house...any idea what i should do who i should call etc?

Many thanks

[Tropicalevo]

I would not worry too much about the baby cobras. Now the mother .......................

By the way, most Thais that I know think that every snake is a cobra (and every snake skin is from a cobra). I have had LOTS of snakes in my house and on my property over the last 10 years, and according to Thais they were all cobras. Luckily only one of them was.

[canuckamuck]

It is difficult to confidently identify hatchlings because the often change as they mature. But there is still gonna be a mom somewhere whatever they are. Hopefully she is moving on or harmless. Just be a little extra careful for a bit

[neverdie]

I would not worry too much about the baby cobras. Now the mother .......................

Whilst I understand the jest in which this statement was made, one must also realise that its also misleading.

With venemous snakes its often the baby and juvenile ones that are the most dangerous as they can be known to inject greater quantities into their victims when they strike as well as I am led to believe that some species actually have a more potent level of venom in the earlier stages of their life.

The beauty of the cobras is they can be alot slower than other snakes and when they strike they tend to strike in a downward movement which is why all those dudes that play with them can get away with what they do.

Take great caution in dealing with these snakes, although I don't think you need to be told that.

[Muppetbkk]

Hi, thanks for that...I was mis informed by my gf...the snake was actually 20 cm long ... It's head was big and flat when rearing up..at this point she left it to the security guards..they said it was actually a king cobra not a Siamese cobra but I don't know for sure as they dropped it down the drain in the street.. I live on the outskirts of Bangkok. What age would a 20cm cobra be? Any ideas? Cheers

[wolf5370]

KK are the largest venomous snakes - at 20cm I would think its only a few weeks old - this does not mean it is not dangerous though, and may even be more agressive as it has more enemies when small. To be safe, I would wear gardenening gloves and bots when using the boxes, make sure they are taped up so any inside will stay there for now - and unpack in the garden when you get at the destination (with the gloves and boots). if you have aircon, you can put the boxes in one room and turn the aircon on cold, snakes don't like the cold and will try and find somewhere warmer - kep an eye on th boxes and see if any make a break for it (obviously before you tape them up)

[Goshawk]

I would not worry too much about the baby cobras

from the instant they hatch, their venom is just as potent & potentially fatal as a mature adult cobra..

at 20cm in length, you can rule out King Cobra (they are double that when they emerge from the egg)

edit: see some hatching

Edited August 24, 2010 by Goshawk

[Crotalus]

Some of the above comments are on the ball, while others are not.

Yes, it's true, pretty much every snake seen in Asia and Africa is identified as a Cobra, and continent wide, the majority are probably not.

Certainly that's my own experiences dealing with lay people in the relevant areas.

As for how deadly they are are, while it is true that juveniles have the same venom as adults, they do inject (on average) a lot less, and hence on paper at least are no where near as dangerous.

Having said that, adult Cobras can kill humans easily and so young ones often can, but not quite so quickly.

Added to that, the variable that different people react differently to the same snake venoms (some good and some bad) and that in reality

most people will remain clueless about identifying snakes, unless they do a snake handling course , it does make sense to assume all snakes may be venomous and dangerously so and should be either avoided, or treated with utmost care.

For what it's worth, inflicting pain on snakes is what causes most to bite and also young snakes are more easily aroused and bite more often than the big ones.

All the best

Snakeman Raymond Hoser

Edited August 30, 2010 by sbk

[Sheryl]

If there is any practical way that you can expose all the boxes to a lot of smoke just before moving them on out, it may help dislodge any unwanted residents. Even a very large amount of those insect coils and incense sticks might do the trick if the room you have the boxes in is small enough.

Still wear the gloves, tho

[Crotalus]

Smoking out reptiles works well in theory, but not in practice.

The reason is to do with the way the smoke moves up, rather than into cracks and crevices where the snakes may be hiding.

Over the years I tried smoking reptiles out of places (where we KNEW they were hiding) and unless we could channel the smoke into the hole the snake was in (such as by raising a log), not enough smoke would go in to make the snake move out.

Because reptiles breathe a lot less (need less air per minute) than mammals, they are better able to "tough out" a fire than mammals. They are also more inclined to do so.

In terms of your place, my advice is to wear gloves and clean the place out.

If you see a small snake (under a metre) sweep it with a broom into a bucket or bin and then move elsewhere.

For a big snake, use the broom to push and "usher" it out the door.

Provided you do not belt or thump the snake, you should not agitate it to bite.

Pain is the biggest driver to make snakes bite people.

So long as you do not pick up the snake by hand or try to hurt or kill it, your cahnces of bite are virtually NIL.

The advice I give here is generalised and works well most of the time.

All the best

[Muppetbkk]

Thanks for all the advice, we went through all the boxes and I am 99% sure that there was just the one. More to the point I think it has been in the house for a long time as when I went to move the sofa there was a dried snakeskin underneath, about the same size as the one caught . It's scale Pattern diid look very much like a cobra and my gf said that it's head flattened out like a cobra when first discovered. I have a large dog and for the last couple of months he has been making whining noises at the sofa, I shiver at the amount of times I stuck my hand underneath to check one of his toys wasn't stuck there! Now I realize he was just letting us know about the snake! Well, I am now safe in my new house and I will be sure to check under the furniture more often!!!

Edited August 26, 2010 by Muppetbkk

[Crotalus]

Muppetbkk, good to hear the "worst" is over.

As it happens walking out on the street and watching for errant drivers is riskier than dealing with snakes.

But I thought I'd share a story I have with you.

A few years ago, Tiger Snake (one of the world's deadliest snakes) entered a factory and then gave birth to about 20-30 young.

I was called in and caught about 17 of them and the big one (the female) was got as well.

All inside the factory where dozens of people worked.

I am clueless as to how many I missed!

Had a similar incident in a house as well, but this time two different species of snake (Tiger/Copperhead),

with babies found at opposite ends of the very large house.

No one got bit however, which I suppose is also relevant.

PS Most snakes enter buildings in extremely warm or wet weather.

All the best

Edited August 30, 2010 by sbk

[steffi]

Hi, thanks for that...I was mis informed by my gf...the snake was actually 20 cm long ... It's head was big and flat when rearing up..at this point she left it to the security guards..they said it was actually a king cobra not a Siamese cobra but I don't know for sure as they dropped it down the drain in the street.. I live on the outskirts of Bangkok. What age would a 20cm cobra be? Any ideas? Cheers

Outskirts of Bangkok? Where exactly? I'd be surprised to see King Cobras anywhere near Bangkok except at Red Cross. Cobras are known to inhabit areas in Bangkok but not King Cobras.

Viperkeeper on youtube always has baby cobras and other such snakes you can see what a baby king looks like if you search there.

Edited August 28, 2010 by steffi

[Crotalus]

Yes steffi is close to the mark.

As a professional snake catcher I find that most people who think they are snake experts

in fact are clueless.

Most snake ID's I get over the phone are wrong and badly made guesses at best.

Working outside Australia, I find anything that has a hood is a "Cobra",

anything big may be a "king Cobra" and so it goes.

In Australia, anything Brown is a "Brown snake", anything more tnan four feet

a "king Brown" snake.

That about another 100 species here are brown isn't relevant or known!

Just to add a bit of confusion to things, people move snakes around, (often accidentally)

inside shipments of good, wood, gardening supplies and so on, meaning snakes

do turn up "wide" of where they should be.

In other words a provisional ID of a snake by a poster on the internet should

(justifiably) and perhaps seeming unfairly on the original poster, be treated with skepticism in terms

of positive ID.

For a snake bite avoidance pointof view, the safest bet is to assume all encountered snakes may be deadly and as

a rule all should be avoided.

If the snake doesn't move on, then call as snake removalist to do the job for you.

All the best

Snakeman Raymond Hoser

[Muppetbkk]

Hi, I live Bang Yai...Sorry about the King Cobra mistake, we are now pretty sure it was a manacled cobra (Naja kaouthia) from comparing markings on the back of its neck with what my GF and the security guards saw.

They are fairly common around here apparently.. Just hope its the last one we have living under the sofa.

[Crotalus]

Thanks for the update,

you are correct about Monacled Cobras being common in your area.

Now the thing to bear in mind is that while Bangkok is virtually over-run with these snakes,

(most hide from people and are generally invisible, even within metres)

there is not mass death and destruction of people because of them.

In fact snake bites are relatively rare.

The snakes try to avoid people and most of the time the reverse is true as well.

If people remember this every-day reality and try to forget the rubbish spewed forth daily on Cable TV and the like,

most people lose their irrational fears of being attacked by snakes.

All the best

Edited August 30, 2010 by sbk

[Muppetbkk]

Crotalus,

Totally agree with you, if i had been there i would have tried to get the security guards to catch and release rather than kill it. I was concerned for our two dogs as many dogs do get bitten by snakes here. I realise that it would not bite without provocation, and i deduct that it had been in the house for a while managing to stay out of anyone's way. When i moved to this are 2 years ago i had an amazing experience, i was driving home and i though a tree had fallen across the road, when i got closer i noticed that it was a python...not just any python, but one to rival the biggest i've ever seen in pictures or TV...It was coming from some grass on one side of the road stretching across one carriageway and nearly one meter from the edge of the other...when i returned to measure the road the next day the visible portion was 4.5m and the tail was still in the grass and with no tapering visible...it was as thick my thigh!! it doubled back rather quickly when i stopped the car! amazing experience, i went back many times with my camera but failed see it again...

[steffi]

Where was this? My wife's sister saw a big python crawling along their fence one day out in Don Muang. I guess the open field behind their Moo Baan has lots of snakes. Wife's mother was recently bitten by Green Pit Viper in same area but has recovered.

Crotalus,

Totally agree with you, if i had been there i would have tried to get the security guards to catch and release rather than kill it. I was concerned for our two dogs as many dogs do get bitten by snakes here. I realise that it would not bite without provocation, and i deduct that it had been in the house for a while managing to stay out of anyone's way. When i moved to this are 2 years ago i had an amazing experience, i was driving home and i though a tree had fallen across the road, when i got closer i noticed that it was a python...not just any python, but one to rival the biggest i've ever seen in pictures or TV...It was coming from some grass on one side of the road stretching across one carriageway and nearly one meter from the edge of the other...when i returned to measure the road the next day the visible portion was 4.5m and the tail was still in the grass and with no tapering visible...it was as thick my thigh!! it doubled back rather quickly when i stopped the car! amazing experience, i went back many times with my camera but failed see it again...

[sbk]

I always thought that there would be significantly less snakes in urban areas for some reason.

We live on a stream in a relatively rural area so have had more snakes than I care to think about over the years, found a snake skin behind the bed, but it was smallish so that wasn't too bad, but it all started shortly after we built our house with a cobra behind the toilet. I've had cobras in my kitchen, cobras in my front garden, cobras in my back garden. A python in my tree out front, a python on my wall, green vipers in the bushes and large numbers of a non-poisonous snake I only know as ngoo sokaplok (dirty snake) which is brown with blue markings.

I understand strategic placement of mothballs helps deter snakes so they get place near the doors now, after a cobra curled up outside my closed bedroom door when I was inside taking a nap. thank god I had closed the door or it would have come in and curled up with me!

[Crotalus]

Dear all, "Great myths of our time", ... "snakes avoid human habitation".

As it happens, it makes little difference to where they go.

The only element of truth is that they avoid movement by large animals of all kinds.

That is, they will generally stay hidden while people are moving about and then move when they think all's clear.

Recently when in Africa, I was chasing snakes for weeks.

In bush areas away from people I was catching the stock average of 3-5 snakes an hour (this is a common sort of figure for rocky type areas worldwide in cooler weather).

But when on the edge of human settlements in Capetown I was averaging just over 20 snakes per hour during filming of snake catching courses and the like.

Now I mean houses within a few metres of where I was looking and rubbish immediately next to fences and property boundaries. The area I was in had lots of small bits of rubbish on the ground, was swampy and had heaps of rodents that also inhabited the area and the nearby houses. Snakes need certain things and most important are areas to get raidant heat from sun (best at ground level), cover from predators and excess heat (rocks, logs and preferably sheets of tin!), water (and people leave cans arouind that collect and hold rainwater) and a good food source (rodents) helps.

The locals were amazed to see how many snakes a snake removalist could find, with some people there saying "I've been here for more than 20 years and never seen a single snake! In other words, it is routine to get MORE snakes in built up areas that in remote places, although experience shows numbers of snakes peaks on the interface between bush and urban sprawl. So the experiences related above are not unusual. Similar is seen even in densely populated places like Hong Kong, Jakarta and so on. I was catching Cobras on the edge of Cape Town airport and yet the majority of the thousands of passing passengers would have been blissfully oblivious that they were walking within metres of the snakes. In Melbourne, Australia, I get about three calls a year to remove deadly brown snakes from airport runways and the like at the local airport.

All the best

Snakeman

Edited September 1, 2010 by Crotalus