Thai Cabinet Approves Bt63b Expansion Plan For Suvarnabhumi Airport

[sunanta]

They would have been better off spending the money on trying to create a comprehensive transport system in Bangkok and beyond. They now have an old airport laying around, which seems to serve very little purpose. Still they know best and need listen to none but themselves

dengue fever up 83 percent this season.... have not seen mosquito sprayer in about two years...who decides where this money is going???? ive already had complaints from friends how big that stinking airport is.....same principal as driving a vigo an living in the bamboo

[Bruce1]

I thought this airport was already designed for 65 million passengers, similar to Singapore.

[loser1]

Well he's got the trademark 'In too deep' yellow T- Shirt, i don't mind seeing an old expat of 10 years service wearing these but a 30years old ?

[bkk75]

They would have been better off spending the money on trying to create a comprehensive transport system in Bangkok and beyond. They now have an old airport laying around, which seems to serve very little purpose. Still they know best and need listen to none but themselves

I think you should instruct them what to do. Seems like you know all about this.

They are already underway in upgrading the MRT with a total combined route of 91km up 333% from the current line length of 21km. Though I dont know why they dont adopt an integrated rail property model like MTR in Hong Kong, as now MRT are operating with a deficit of around 1.5billion Baht

I hate to say this given the limited number of years I have lived here but efficiency and consolidation is not something Thai govt is known for. It's a bit unfair to compare to MTR in Hong Kong because the society there is much more fast paced; it's like comparing the hare and the turtle. I've been around asia and I would say Hong Kong's fast rail system is one of the best..well designed and efficient.

[tka]

Do all of you guys posting have to be so bloody negative.Sure make contructive comments but give them some credit occasionally or have you all been here to long and need a return back to your home countries where it is all so perfect.

[zthyadat]

Forget it - nothing will be finished without Thaksin. How long was the Airport planned before he got it DONE?

He got it done because he had a majority govt so was in a position to dictate where the kickbacks went a much more efficient setup than coalitions, who must bluff and negotiate, rebluff and negotiate some more.

It might be worth noting though that the Skytrain finally opened under the Democrats, a year before the miracle man bought himself the premiership.

[zthyadat]

They would have been better off spending the money on trying to create a comprehensive transport system in Bangkok and beyond. They now have an old airport laying around, which seems to serve very little purpose. Still they know best and need listen to none but themselves

I think you should instruct them what to do. Seems like you know all about this.

Agreed. Why should normal people have any input or waste their time thinking up ideas for practical solutions when the decision makers have so many vested interests to consider?

[SiriusBlack1]

Yahoo! Everyone into the trough!

[TPI]

Do all of you guys posting have to be so bloody negative.Sure make contructive comments but give them some credit occasionally or have you all been here to long and need a return back to your home countries where it is all so perfect.

Baby! While it can be said that we should go home to our "home countries" what would we do if we did? Everything there is perfect, so we wouldn't have anything to criticize, what a depressing thought! What I love about this place is that there is soooooo much to criticize and almost no effort is made to to learn from their mistakes! it helps me get through an otherwise boring day.

[rakman]

77 Billion Baht minus 63 Billion Baht equals 14 Billion Baht. An extreemly inexpensive third runway?

Atlanta's5th runway cost US$ 1.28 billion, but required massive dirt move (up to 11 stories in places) and a huge freeway bridge near the middle of the runway over a freeway (motorway), plus the usual graft and kickbacks.

The new International Terminal is projected to cost US$ 1.4 billion, and a new south terminal projected to cost US$ 1.8 billion. We'll be lucky if the price is close to that.

In the link below, the airport improvement plan was US$5.4 billion, but is now projected to be over US$ 6 billion.

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/hartsfield_jackson/

[NanLaew]

77 Billion Baht minus 63 Billion Baht equals 14 Billion Baht. An extreemly inexpensive third runway?

Atlanta's5th runway cost US$ 1.28 billion, but required massive dirt move (up to 11 stories in places) and a huge freeway bridge near the middle of the runway over a freeway (motorway), plus the usual graft and kickbacks.

The new International Terminal is projected to cost US$ 1.4 billion, and a new south terminal projected to cost US$ 1.8 billion. We'll be lucky if the price is close to that.

In the link below, the airport improvement plan was US$5.4 billion, but is now projected to be over US$ 6 billion.

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/hartsfield_jackson/

Costs that much because the base product at ATL is such a piece of sh!t to begin with. And Delta? They deserve each other!

But you do raise a good point. The 'bung' in the US of A is at least 10-fold the cost of the Thailand 'bung'.

[webfact]

Cabinet approves over Bt60 billion for Suvarnabhumi Airport expansion

BANGKOK: -- The Thai Cabinet on Tuesday approved a budget of Bt62 billion to fund the second phase of Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport development as proposed by the Ministry of Transport.

Transport Minister Sophon Zarum speaking after the weekly Cabinet meeting said that construction of this phase was not required to undergo environmental and health impact assessments because the project did not include construction of the airport's third runway, which otherwise would have needed such the assessments.

The work for the second phase will cover construction of a tunnel connecting a concourse and additional bays.

"Although some parts of the work were deleted and only the necessary parts are to be built, I believe it won't affect the airport's development. The runways we now have can support 76 flights daily, while there are currently only 40 flights using them day," said Mr Sophon.

Meanwhile, he said the transport ministry is studying the possibility of how to fully utilise Bangkok's Don Mueang Airport, and insisted there was no policy to close it down.

He said the airport has been serving charter flights and its buildings have been on the market as rental properties. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-08-24

[Jatayu]

"Education! Do you have any idea how many textbooks I'd have to buy to skim enough off the top to support my mistress and her weekly binges at Paragon!

Have some sympathy man!"

~random cabinet official

what about investing rather in something that makes sense for the future: education, modern railway network...?

[Bagwan]

I thought that Bangkok was sinking into the sea and, if this is so, what is the point of extending the airport? Maybe will we see the return of those exciting flying boats? 

Can we hope that the monkhood will get into the act this time so as to chase all those nasty evil spirits away that bedeviled the original construction?. 

[Thai at Heart]

So they are spending 2bn USD on ramps and tunnels, but not the third runway which would need an environmental impact study.

So if this is the prep work for the "third" runway, when do they expect this to be built? 35 years later one would presume? This definitely has "noses" at the trough written all over it.

2 bn USD which doesn't make the capacity any higher or produce any tangible benefits, other than meaning that the current percentage of flights that disembark by plane.

Spending 60bn WITHOUT the new runway is ludicrous.

This was quoted elsewhere in 2008

Plan for Suvarnabhumi phase 2 expansion sounds very promising

1. Satellite Building - 20,000 million baht

2. 28 Parking bays to accommodate A380 and B747 - 4,000 million baht

3. the 3rd runway, 4000-m long - 4,000 million baht

4. 5 tunnels connecting Satellite Building with Main Terminal, 2 for airport service vehicles, 1 for utilities, 1 for luggage conveyor, and the last one for Automated People Mover with 2 trains run every 5 minutes, 200-300 passengers per trip, 1.5 km long. - 3,000 million baht

5. Main Terminal building expansion on the Domestic side (east side) to increase the capacity from 45 to 60 million passenger per year - 6,000-7,000 million baht

6. a new parking building with a capacity of 2,000 cars - 500-600 million baht

Total 36bn WITH the extra runway. What are they spending 62bn on?????

A blog discussion from 2 years ago about Survhanabumi Phase 2

The second phase of airport expansion which involving the construction of a satellite building south of the main terminal is expected to begin construction in 3 to 5 years.

Wiki link

[swerver]

Nobody seem to talk about that Don Muang is not a civilian airport.

It is a Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) Airport.

Anything wanted to be done ultimately must have the approval of the RTAF.

It was tried with Don Muang to make it a civilan airport by moving the RTAF to one of the several now barely used former USAF bases.

Ever tried to move an elifant when it does not want to move?

Today 2010 RTAF is still the owner of Don Muang.

[Thai at Heart]

Nobody seem to talk about that Don Muang is not a civilian airport.

It is a Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) Airport.

Anything wanted to be done ultimately must have the approval of the RTAF.

It was tried with Don Muang to make it a civilan airport by moving the RTAF to one of the several now barely used former USAF bases.

Ever tried to move an elifant when it does not want to move?

Today 2010 RTAF is still the owner of Don Muang.

I don't think anyone has ever asked the RTAF to move. They (the RTAF) desperately want to find a way to keep it in use by AOT, but for far from altruistic reasons. You think that AOT get to use it for free???????

The RTAF would dearly love to have the government move more business back to DMK.

This is a very delicate problem for Abhisit, by so far he seems to have negotiated it quite nicely.

[josephbloggs]

All these north Bangkokians clamouring in vain for someone to reopen their beloved old airport because it was handy for them. If the city had expanded north, it would be logical but the city is spreading more to the west and south so I guess you will need to move.

It almost makes me laugh (I stress "almost" because it doesn't make me laugh, it actually annoys me) that now we have Suvarnabhumi people love to moan about it and say Don Muang was fantastic and is sorely missed. Bring back the good old days!! It's as if Don Muang's years of "service" are somehow something to be fondly remembered and harked back to.

Well I have lived here 15 years and the only thing I remember about Don Muang was that it was an ugly old pig of an airport. Seriously, it was dreadful. The access was ok after they finally extended the Don Muang tollway before the Asian Games in 1998, but it was only ok. Inside the facilities were dreary and expensive. Car parking was a joke. Immigration was a nightmare. It was a terrible airport.

These same people who are now moaning about Suvarnabhumi moaned initially because there was no high-speed rail link. Ridiculous, they said! KL and HK have one, they said! How can you be a proper international airport without one, they said! Well now there is one, but guess what, people are moaning it's a white elephant because it doesn't stop outside their house and it isn't packed solid after having been open for a day and a bit.

Credit where credit is due. Suvarnabhumi is far from perfect but it's a pretty good airport. It has got a good connecting road network, a fantastic modern rail link (I went on it today - very impressive), it is bright and airy and modern and many times I have passed through there in a matter of minutes. The King Power monopoly is ridiculous, the food and beverage inside is way overpriced, but apart from that I like using it. Even the taxi tout mess has imroved considerably and it's now easy to find your way to the very well organised official taxi rank. I have never once been overcharged or had a cab that has refused to put his meter on (happened alot at Don Muang though).

I think some people are not happy unless they are moaning. Maybe it's just my perception but alot of them seem to enjoy posting on Thai Visa. What is it about this place that attracts them?

[tomyummer]

62 billion? So really only 43.4 billion will actually be used. So where does the 30% go to? Hint: elections are coming up again, so the budget needs to get passed....FAST!

[tomyummer]

Nobody seem to talk about that Don Muang is not a civilian airport.

It is a Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) Airport.

Anything wanted to be done ultimately must have the approval of the RTAF.

It was tried with Don Muang to make it a civilan airport by moving the RTAF to one of the several now barely used former USAF bases.

Ever tried to move an elifant when it does not want to move?

Today 2010 RTAF is still the owner of Don Muang.

I don't think anyone has ever asked the RTAF to move. They (the RTAF) desperately want to find a way to keep it in use by AOT, but for far from altruistic reasons. You think that AOT get to use it for free???????

The RTAF would dearly love to have the government move more business back to DMK.

This is a very delicate problem for Abhisit, by so far he seems to have negotiated it quite nicely.

3 Options:

1. Legalize gambling in Thailand (like it already doesn't exist?) and turn the place into a casino,

2. Turn it into yet another shopping mall,

3. Make it into a kick-butt huge park where the runways could serve as football fields, biking, skateboarding, kite-boarding, etc.

[Thai at Heart]

3 Options:

1. Legalize gambling in Thailand (like it already doesn't exist?) and turn the place into a casino,

2. Turn it into yet another shopping mall,

3. Make it into a kick-butt huge park where the runways could serve as football fields, biking, skateboarding, kite-boarding, etc.

4. Do nothing because it is politically too complicated to get all the government agencies and the armed forces to agree on the price and their take. Thaksin's cronies to come back into power and sell it to Land and House for a bag of somtamm, and make "Don Muang Paradise" the single largest moobhan in Bangkok with expressway access all the way into Bangkok. Problem solved eventually

[chmiroau]

77 Billion Baht minus 63 Billion Baht equals 14 Billion Baht. An extreemly inexpensive third runway?

Ah what you forgot is that the labour is cheap, and the bribes are expensive. They just deducted the cost of the labour, not the cost of the bribes.

Joke joke, just having a laugh.

The numbers of these things dont always add up. However when you consider the time frame of this proposal, and the inevitable rise in cost of building such a thing, alterations and the such, then the cost differentiation would likely be explained. I doubt that this information will, or needs to be published. Safe to say that this kind of situation is global, and it is almost always cheaper to build a house last week, than it will be to build it next week.

[Piengrudee]

What about Don Muang? It needs an expansion too.

[jackr]

^^ It needs flattening more like, and everything going to Swampy. Be nice to sort all the issues with the latter first, though, before adding bits on.

[SantiSuk]

All these north Bangkokians clamouring in vain for someone to reopen their beloved old airport because it was handy for them. If the city had expanded north, it would be logical but the city is spreading more to the west and south so I guess you will need to move.

It almost makes me laugh ...

Credit where credit is due. ...

I think some people are not happy unless they are moaning. ....

Here here. Consign the moaners to Manila or Jakarta for a few weeks - that'll give them something to complain about

[swerver]

Nobody seem to talk about that Don Muang is not a civilian airport.

It is a Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) Airport.

Anything wanted to be done ultimately must have the approval of the RTAF.

It was tried with Don Muang to make it a civilan airport by moving the RTAF to one of the several now barely used former USAF bases.

Ever tried to move an elifant when it does not want to move?

Today 2010 RTAF is still the owner of Don Muang.

I don't think anyone has ever asked the RTAF to move. They (the RTAF) desperately want to find a way to keep it in use by AOT, but for far from altruistic reasons. You think that AOT get to use it for free???????

The RTAF would dearly love to have the government move more business back to DMK.

This is a very delicate problem for Abhisit, by so far he seems to have negotiated it quite nicely.

Naturally RTAF would love to see more aircraft landings and take offs at Don Muang - The two runways and taxi ways are RTAF and it gets paid for these takeoffs and landings by private operators (airlines and others).

Everything bordered by the runway outer edge and the Highway is Airport Authority Thailand owned/operated but it sits on land owned by RTAF for which it receives a yearly rent.

I worked for a company that offered years ago to build a civilian airport for Bangkok (practically in the same swamp Suvarnabumy is now located) the company wanted 20-year tax free operation, at the expire of the 20-year the airport would be handed over to Thailand free and clear. Thai military government of that time refused the deal.

As for the electric elevated train the original idea was to connect Suvarnabumi with Dong Muang, because Don Muang was going to be the local-, chater- and private flights airport. Remember the howling of Thai Air when it was suggested to move some of their flights to Dong Muang in connection with the runways cracking, it never did happen. What did happen was that the guy who made the cracking of the runways public was fired from his job.

[Thai at Heart]

Nobody seem to talk about that Don Muang is not a civilian airport.

It is a Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) Airport.

Anything wanted to be done ultimately must have the approval of the RTAF.

It was tried with Don Muang to make it a civilan airport by moving the RTAF to one of the several now barely used former USAF bases.

Ever tried to move an elifant when it does not want to move?

Today 2010 RTAF is still the owner of Don Muang.

I don't think anyone has ever asked the RTAF to move. They (the RTAF) desperately want to find a way to keep it in use by AOT, but for far from altruistic reasons. You think that AOT get to use it for free???????

The RTAF would dearly love to have the government move more business back to DMK.

This is a very delicate problem for Abhisit, by so far he seems to have negotiated it quite nicely.

Naturally RTAF would love to see more aircraft landings and take offs at Don Muang - The two runways and taxi ways are RTAF and it gets paid for these takeoffs and landings by private operators (airlines and others).

Everything bordered by the runway outer edge and the Highway is Airport Authority Thailand owned/operated but it sits on land owned by RTAF for which it receives a yearly rent.

I worked for a company that offered years ago to build a civilian airport for Bangkok (practically in the same swamp Suvarnabumy is now located) the company wanted 20-year tax free operation, at the expire of the 20-year the airport would be handed over to Thailand free and clear. Thai military government of that time refused the deal.

As for the electric elevated train the original idea was to connect Suvarnabumi with Dong Muang, because Don Muang was going to be the local-, chater- and private flights airport. Remember the howling of Thai Air when it was suggested to move some of their flights to Dong Muang in connection with the runways cracking, it never did happen. What did happen was that the guy who made the cracking of the runways public was fired from his job.

The irony of having one government managed and minority publically owned, globally recognisable company (Thai Airways) subsidising a wholly government owned but apparently profit seeking organisation (the RTAF/Armed Forces) shows the wonderful absurdity of Thailand.

At the end of it all, Thai Airways is in economically bad enough shape without lumbering it with responsibility to keep Don Muang running just to feather the RTAF's pocket. The irony of it all is, that either way the tax payer is on the hook for both.

[asiawatcher]

There is no way the extra runway can cost that amount - do the sums. Even concrete based roads subjected to 60 tons per sq metre weight factor are only around Baht 10M per kilometre (last time we poured them) for dual lanes and median strip. Take out the median strip and make it 6 lanes wide and 1Km will cost 30M Baht per kilometre, add a bit extra for drainage (although my costs include drainage) and bingo - where pray tell is the balance? But then - extra buildings allow Baht 100,000 per sq metre including clear span steel and air conditioning and you are nowhere near the costs! (Checked already with he engineers who built the existing structures!)

But Swampy was built to handle 40M people p.a. and Don Muang was already handling 38M so why did they spend the money they did when it could only handle a 5% increase in traffic? Bingo - pay offs and ripoffs. Now throw more money at it and do what?

The current pedestrian traffic control is pathetic and discouraging and AOT have a bunch of morons on management committees getting a free lunch and a pay day and have never had to stand in any line to meet a passenger, have never bothered to read the huge flight boards (because public cannot access them) or even walk internally (or externally along the inner court) to the ends of the terminal... because you can't.

The whole project was a complete waste of money and I doubt throwing this type of budget at it will make much difference to its already gross inefficiencies!

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

Remember the howling of Thai Air when it was suggested to move some of their flights to Dong Muang in connection with the runways cracking, it never did happen. What did happen was that the guy who made the cracking of the runways public was fired from his job.

"it never did happen" ...

Actually I recall that Thai Airways did have to switch many domestic-flights, for a year or so, back to their old home-base.

Which must have cost them a lot of extra money, maintaining two bases in Bangkok, but I well remember the hilarity on TV, when they suggested that it would actually be more profitable that way ! Having one's domestic & international-hubs at different airports is more profitable ? ! Only in Thailand, if so.

And in which case, why did they later reswitch everything back to Swampy, just as soon as they could ?

[chmike]

All these north Bangkokians clamouring in vain for someone to reopen their beloved old airport because it was handy for them. If the city had expanded north, it would be logical but the city is spreading more to the west and south so I guess you will need to move.

"If the city HAD expanded north..."??? You've got to be kidding. Have you been up to the Minburi-Pathum Thani Hi-Tech Corridor recently? Which of the several hundred new housing projects contstructed in Rangsit over the last 10 years did you forget to count?