After Upheaval, Not All Is Well With Thai Youth

[asiancup2007]

NA CHUEAK, THAILAND — Three months ago, images of protesters battling the military in the streets of Bangkok seized the world’s attention. Now, by some measures, Thailand is bouncing back: the country’s economy is projected to grow as fast as 7.5 percent this year, and the government is pushing ahead with a program of “reconciliation” with its opponents. But even as Thailand pulls itself back together, there are concerns that deep-seated problems among its young people represent a quieter, long-term threat to the country’s future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/world/asia/25iht-thai.html

[LaoPo]

Thanks a lot for posting, asiancup2007 !

Teenagers in Na Chueak, Thailand

An "old" problem....:

Declining education standards — as well as reports of growing violence and drug and alcohol use among the young, which some analysts see as related issues — are contributing to fears that Thailand's dream of joining the ranks of the world's most developed countries may be getting more and more elusive.

"Our G.D.P. is going up, but our society is sick," said Sombat Rittidej, the head of the northeastern division of Child Watch, a program that analyzes trends among young people across Thailand. "All the problems, all the vices are correlated," he said. "When kids drink and smoke it relates to cutting class, dropping out of school, violence, fighting and premarital sex."

The Thai news media reported in July that the country had the world’s highest number of people addicted to methamphetamines, an illegal stimulant that is especially popular with young people."

same source:

http://www.nytimes.c...-thai.html?_r=1

LaoPo

Edited August 25, 2010 by LaoPo

[Jingthing]

The kids may be taking the uppers, but that article is a major league DOWNER!

[dumball]

='Jingthing' timestamp='1282765356' post='3839391']

The kids may be taking the uppers, but that article is a major league DOWNER!

So where are the parents whilst all of this has been in proccess ??

Are not parents expected to show some concern for thier offspring in all of these matters ?

Parents are required to give out punishment and guidance to wayward children , set examples by thier own behavior .

Uh-uh , did I say something wrong ?

[asiawatcher]

Education of youth is usually the responsibility of elders and in Thailand they are not supposed to question - it seems that mould is now being 'questioned', and rightfully so!

[Katmanpu]

This is not a simple topic to chime in on. Let me suggest that respondents on this thread should consider the reality in their home or native countries before commenting on Thai society.

This is a problem being faced worldwide in all countries owing to many factors, including the rapid rise of technology, unprecedented mass media and internet access and consumer goods availabilty.

It strains the fabric of both traditional and western societies.

[Maverell]

This is not a simple topic to chime in on. Let me suggest that respondents on this thread should consider the reality in their home or native countries before commenting on Thai society.

This is a problem being faced worldwide in all countries owing to many factors, including the rapid rise of technology, unprecedented mass media and internet access and consumer goods availabilty.

It strains the fabric of both traditional and western societies.

This post by Katmanpu is the one of the few sensible posts I have read on Thai Visa in a long time !

[Suradit]

This is not a simple topic to chime in on. Let me suggest that respondents on this thread should consider the reality in their home or native countries before commenting on Thai society.

This is a problem being faced worldwide in all countries...

Nonsense! If you've been reading ThaiVisa for any length of time you'd know that everything in Farangatopia is perfect and that everything in Thailand is deplorable. TIT !!!

More importantly, despite his previous status as a nonentity in his home country, as soon as a farang takes up residence in Thailand he becomes an expert in economics, criminology, education, transport, psychology, etc. and understands how intellectually inadequate all Thais are because he knows one bar girl really well, which gives him great insight into all things Thai.

(And yes, for the literalists, this is sarcasm)

[CMTourist]

Its nice to see some numbers to confirm my very strong impression that Thailand has changed for the worse and that violence by youth is way way higher than it used to be

[dudopode]

comment about the intro of the topic not about the article itself

...projected to grow as fast as 7.5 percent this year, and the government is pushing ahead with a program of “reconciliation” with its opponents. But even as Thailand pulls itself back together, there are concerns that deep-seated problems among its young people represent a quieter, long-term threat to the country’s future...

Since when is Thailand pulling itself back together???

The Reds and Yellows situation has not improved at all...

Tourism is still very very slow.. despite all the effort of the Government to make us believe the opposite

Huge tensions North and South... (cant fight with the sea East and West so that's cool)

The economy is projected to grow...

Corruption is getting worse

Crime is rampant (Thailand was safe before)

Many humans right abuses...

Let's wait for the next election and see how well Thailand pulls itself back together. ;o(

[dumball]

'Suradit' timestamp='1282801469' post='3840147']

Katmanpu' timestamp='1282790086' post='3839758']

This is not a simple topic to chime in on. Let me suggest that respondents on this thread should consider the reality in their home or native countries before commenting on Thai society.

This is a problem being faced worldwide in all countries...

Nonsense! If you've been reading ThaiVisa for any length of time you'd know that everything in Farangatopia is perfect and that everything in Thailand is deplorable. TIT !!!

More importantly, despite his previous status as a nonentity in his home country, as soon as a farang takes up residence in Thailand he becomes an expert in economics, criminology, education, transport, psychology, etc. and understands how intellectually inadequate all Thais are because he knows one bar girl really well, which gives him great insight into all things Thai.

(And yes, for the literalists, this is sarcasm)

The preceding posts have been read and well noted , there is a certain amount of pertaining truth in them , but please let me pass note from a slightly different aspect that may or not be more relative to the situation that exists HERE IN tHAILAND .

Many expats have decided to settle in Thailand for thier own personal reasons as noted here on TV , reading some of these previous posts in a little more than a superficial manner , one will (Perhaps) have made note of a recuring theme that is quite prevalent . The reasoning that they can do little to nothing in regards to changing things more to thier liking in the country of birth or former residence , probably due to the fact the mold has been fairly rigidly set in said countries , yes many have arrived by various modes of transportation to the land of thier dreams .

Please make a personal notation that you chose to live in Thailand for the conditions that existed , which you considered to be far superior to those you had left behind , but alas , the times and the people have changed in many forms and ways . This now gives you another option , to either accept the status quo or once again , move on to pastures green and exciting .

The pointing of fingers becomes somewhat of a norm , multiple excuses arise from those with or without a modicum of sensibility , it would appear far easier to many , to merely make comparisons of what is happening around the globe to set thier fervant thoughts to rest , alas , this does nothing to improve one iota of what ails Thailand .

This is your chosen home , you are not merely guests , you are residents in the full meaning of the word , you are allowed by this fact to air your personal views , to help slow or stop the deterioration of ethical behavior with which you are becoming surrounded , look in the mirror and reverse the direction of that critical finger , you are , after all , partialy at fault .

[Buchholz]

but please let me pass note from a slightly different aspect that may or not be more relative to the situation that exists HERE IN tHAILAND .

Have you moved back to be HERE IN THAILAND within the last 2 days?

When I was in Thailand , you could fill a 1 litre bottle from a soi=side purufication machine for 1 Baht , here in Cambodia I get 20 litres of purified water delivered to my door for 30Baht

[dumball]

='Buchholz' timestamp='1282806066' post='3840360']

'dumball' timestamp='1282804642' post='3840301']

but please let me pass note from a slightly different aspect that may or not be more relative to the situation that exists HERE IN tHAILAND .

Have you moved back to be HERE IN THAILAND within the last 2 days?

When I was in Thailand , you could fill a 1 litre bottle from a soi=side purufication machine for 1 Baht , here in Cambodia I get 20 litres of purified water delivered to my door for 30Baht

Nitpickers come at ten per Baht , why would a self aclaimed person of reasonable intelligence stoop to that level ?

You have the ability to be far more expressive on a post and the main context , why not use it so we all can learn your point of view .

[Buchholz]

but please let me pass note from a slightly different aspect that may or not be more relative to the situation that exists HERE IN tHAILAND .

Have you moved back to be HERE IN THAILAND within the last 2 days?

When I was in Thailand , you could fill a 1 litre bottle from a soi=side purufication machine for 1 Baht , here in Cambodia I get 20 litres of purified water delivered to my door for 30Baht

Nitpickers come at ten per Baht , why would a self aclaimed person of reasonable intelligence stoop to that level ?

point of view .

Just keeping your perspective of life in Thailand in perspective, in that you don't actually live in Thailand. Sorry if that is considered nit-picking to establish a baseline of truth and accuracy when reading others' posts.

I probably would have completely missed it if you hadn't used the specific phrase:

"HERE IN THAILAND"

after having so recently written:

"here in Cambodia"

on such a recent post that I had remembered reading.

[chainarong]

They are the future , I ask the Question, where is the future.

[robint]

Is there a Cambovisa.com?

i havent come across any such vituperative site equivalent to TV. If anywhere deserved a right thrashing it would be Khmer (or Comer) as NGOs call it.

go look for yourself and experience some real safety and security issues and the stench of real poverty, ragged street kids and massive corruption

cheers thai bashers

[lounger]

The evidence is all around. In USA, and I guess elsewhere, the middle classes are the new poor. In Asia the middle classes now include anyone earning more than 65 baht per day.

Government is the control of the poor.

Corporate wealth is going to protect the wealthy and increase their wealth.

The materialist worldwide system stinks.

In Thailandfor example who is going to benefit from high speed trains at billions of baht? Every month there is some mega project widening the wealth gap and the youth can see this. To say that youth is not getting guidance is to ignore the fact that their parents and neighbours are also losing their places in society. They are in a rut and there is no way out........

[asiawatcher]

This is not a simple topic to chime in on. Let me suggest that respondents on this thread should consider the reality in their home or native countries before commenting on Thai society.

This is a problem being faced worldwide in all countries...

Nonsense! If you've been reading ThaiVisa for any length of time you'd know that everything in Farangatopia is perfect and that everything in Thailand is deplorable. TIT !!!

More importantly, despite his previous status as a nonentity in his home country, as soon as a farang takes up residence in Thailand he becomes an expert in economics, criminology, education, transport, psychology, etc. and understands how intellectually inadequate all Thais are because he knows one bar girl really well, which gives him great insight into all things Thai.

(And yes, for the literalists, this is sarcasm)

Love it... classic!

[scorecard]

So where are the parents whilst all of this has been in proccess ??

Are not parents expected to show some concern for thier offspring in all of these matters ?

Parents are required to give out punishment and guidance to wayward children , set examples by thier own behavior .

Uh-uh , did I say something wrong ?

There's another angle to this subject, the number of Thai children and teenagers who are growing up separated from parents because the parents work in factories, work as security guards, etc, many provinces away, and those who live with parents but parents are at home very limited hours because they work continuous overtime etc., for the family to survive.

Several quite credible Thai sociology professors have been researching this scenario for quite a few years and their findings highlight that the two scenarios just above are causing serious break down of family, discipline, structure, relationships, sense of belonging to a family structure, sense of order, and more.

The research mentions the worst case scenario is a situation where children (probably upcountry and being brought up by elderly grandparents) will comment "Yes, I have a mother, but I forget what she looks like". Very sad.

Some other points identified from the research into these scenarios are:

- Children who when visited by their parents react negatively (possibly anger).

- Children who when visited by parents hide because they have nothing in common and don't know how to interact with the parents / don't know what to say.

- Parents who when they visit the children upcountry suddenly feeze because they feel hesitant to hand out discipline, etc.

- Grandparents who allow the childen to stay home rather than attend school; comment often made by grandparents "They go to school just to play games, they can play games at home and save the money expended on uniforms, bus, etc.

- Other perhaps even more serious longer term observations are that children in these scenarios have little perhaps even zero understanding of what a mother/father - child relationship is and have no idea of the job role of a parent is in terms of daily routines / what the structure of direct family life is, and the evidence shows that children brought up in these scenarios are totaly unprepared themselves to be parents and often make poor parents.

How sad.

[scorecard]

This is not a simple topic to chime in on. Let me suggest that respondents on this thread should consider the reality in their home or native countries before commenting on Thai society.

This is a problem being faced worldwide in all countries...

Nonsense! If you've been reading ThaiVisa for any length of time you'd know that everything in Farangatopia is perfect and that everything in Thailand is deplorable. TIT !!!

More importantly, despite his previous status as a nonentity in his home country, as soon as a farang takes up residence in Thailand he becomes an expert in economics, criminology, education, transport, psychology, etc. and understands how intellectually inadequate all Thais are because he knows one bar girl really well, which gives him great insight into all things Thai.

(And yes, for the literalists, this is sarcasm)

Love it... classic!

Interesting, I'm aware of:

1. A western man, late fifties, came to Thailand first time a few years back, discovered 'utopia' ran home to sell eveything and move to utopia, returned and took his totally naive 18 year old 'working' friend along to discuss buying shophouses to set up a consulting company (his lifetime career in the western world is totally unskilled labor, no slur intended), and introduced his 18 year old naive scantilly dressed 'working' friend as his business consultant and advisor', continuously asks her opinion, girl is outspoken and lets forth with total rubbish. Girl does search for cheaper property and finds a developer who is desperate to offload a row of townhouses he has stupidly built in a totally wrong / totally isolated location. By this stage the westerner has returned home temporarily to take care of something, but by remote control tells the girl to buy, meanwhile the developer ups the price to double what would be reasonable even is an excellent location, tells the girl the added price is because of govenment policies and fees and is normal. Westerner gets confused and pays the upped price. End of story westerner never lets up about the 'working' girl who tricked him / gave him bad advice.

2. Western law professor, severe alcoholic - drinks 24 hours a day, basically never fully sober, visited Thailand many many times, has become well aware of Thai laws about land ownership. Agrees to buy very large luxurious house and land in Pattaya around 14Million Baht, on morning of chanut transfer he has made no arrangements whatever in terms of what personal or company name he wants on the chanut, takes along 18 year old hostess he met the night before, when the land office people ask what name is to be used he asks hostess 'what's your name'. The rest is history.

[dumball]

'scorecard' timestamp='1282823541' post='3841043']

So where are the parents whilst all of this has been in proccess ??

Are not parents expected to show some concern for thier offspring in all of these matters ?

Parents are required to give out punishment and guidance to wayward children , set examples by thier own behavior .

Uh-uh , did I say something wrong ?

There's another angle to this subject, the number of Thai children and teenagers who are growing up separated from parents because the parents work in factories, work as security guards, etc, many provinces away, and those who live with parents but parents are at home very limited hours because they work continuous overtime etc., for the family to survive.

Several quite credible Thai sociology professors have been researching this scenario for quite a few years and their findings highlight that the two scenarios just above are causing serious break down of family, discipline, structure, relationships, sense of belonging to a family structure, sense of order, and more.

The research mentions the worst case scenario is a situation where children (probably upcountry and being brought up by elderly grandparents) will comment "Yes, I have a mother, but I forget what she looks like". Very sad.

Some other points identified from the research into these scenarios are:

- Children who when visited by their parents react negatively (possibly anger).

- Children who when visited by parents hide because they have nothing in common and don't know how to interact with the parents / don't know what to say.

- Parents who when they visit the children upcountry suddenly feeze because they feel hesitant to hand out discipline, etc.

- Grandparents who allow the childen to stay home rather than attend school; comment often made by grandparents "They go to school just to play games, they can play games at home and save the money expended on uniforms, bus, etc.

- Other perhaps even more serious longer term observations are that children in these scenarios have little perhaps even zero understanding of what a mother/father - child relationship is and have no idea of the job role of a parent is in terms of daily routines / what the structure of direct family life is, and the evidence shows that children brought up in these scenarios are totaly unprepared themselves to be parents and often make poor parents.

How sad.

Thank you scorecard for expanding on my few short lines in such an eloquent and descriptive manner , what you have pointed out is that Thai are extremely lacking in parental structuring of thier children , which is leading to the breakdown in a normal family structure , hence the unruly manner of so many young Thai . No matter what the reason or the neccessity of distant parents , this will be a very difficult situation to resolve , even for deeply concerned people , this is not how it is in many Western communities , so a parralell cannot be drawn .

[Credo]

Poverty can create a lot of problems, but money doesn't solve all of them.

I have seen so many people that seem to think that if they have more money everything will be OK. They will gladly try to buy their kids way out of trouble, but won't really help them grow up to be decent, honest, law abiding citizens. Certainly not all parents are this way, but way too many.

[LaoPo]

on such a recent post that I had remembered reading.

You have a good memory!

Do you remember Sriracha John ? You have the same style of writing...amazing, isn't it ?

LaoPo

[Martin2009]

If they were not continually declaring that children were the problem then Child Watch and similar panic merchants would be out of business. These are the same people who criticize every aspect of youth culture and continually run down kids.

While it is laudable that the great and good of the New York Times should mention that the increased Thai Government spending on education in the last decade has been disproportionately allotted by the high-level bureaucrats for their own benefit rather than paying teachers better salaries and improving facilities for students it is sad they have to run out the old myth that 2,500 drug dealers were killed by the police during Taskin’s anti-drug campaign which was proven to be completely false by the United Nation researchers in 2004.

There has been a rise in drug abuse in recent years in Thailand but it cannot be quantified as “an epidemic” as there is no evidence to support this media hype. It can certainly be partly attributed to police being drawn from their normal duties, whether from the border with Myanmar or patrolling the Sukhumvit Road, to perform riot control. Such a change in policing will also certainly have contributed to the increase in alcohol use by many young people here. Drinking among teenagers, given per capita beer sales are up 52% since 1997, will have increased, certainly with comparatively cheaper beer now readily available.

I live in Isaan. I teach Thai kids a couple of days a week. I have seen the extensive underage drinking especially at festivals but only heard rumors about the increased drug use. However I come from Scotland were the illegal drug use is out of control because Social Workers teach children how to inject drugs. I personally find the Thai kids far more self disciplined and polite then their counter-parts in my home country and am old enough to remember when Labour politicians began blaming all the country’s problems on the youth. The kids are an easy target since they have no way to address such self serving adults.

[LaoPo]

^^^^

Are you saying that the claim, as written in The New York Times, could be incorrect ?

Analysts point to a variety of troubling trends. The Thai news media reported in July that the country had the world's highest number of people addicted to methamphetamines, an illegal stimulant that is especially popular with young people. Experts said that this claim, made by a government official, was impossible to verify but that there was no denying the scale of the Thai drug problem. Methamphetamines have become so prevalent in Thailand that researchers from Yale University are studying whether genetic factors have contributed to the country's high addiction rates.

From:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/world/asia/25iht-thai.html?_r=2

LaoPo