Jaguar, Common Sense Or The Heart

[Topcroc]

Guys, this is my first post and so would like to thank you for the many hours of time I have consumed reading all sorts of interesting subjects over the past 6 months.

I have a business in Papua New Guinea and commute as a lot of you guys do, married to a lovely Thai lady, have a house in Hua Hin. Being based in HH and my wife being from BKK with her family there I don't believe the little Honda City with the sewing machine engine will last the time test with frequent (fast) trips to and fro.

Have looked and studied probably all posts regarding the Fortuna-Pajero comparisons and also SUV versus Sedan. I wanted to go for the Pajero but my wife thinks it is too big. If this is going to be the case do I go for a larger sedan??. Don't like the CRV as it is too light IMO tho the wife does.

I have studied the possibility of import but just does not seem workable, many sites and posts attest to this. Great disappointment to me as have just completed a restoration of a Jag XJS and a 350 Chev transplant which I hoped to bring to LOS. Will sell in PNG now:((

A Jag guru friend suggested considering a Jag Sovereign 1995-97, he says this model was the first after Ford took over. Out went the Lucas electrics and improvements to many aspects resulting in a very reliable ride.

There are several of this model being advertised including a XJS 4 Ltr Supercharged. Prices seem to be around the 800,000 to 1m to get a good condition Jag which if reliable would be a very nice vehicle compared to say a Camry or similar.

Have noticed many post relating to "China Town" re parts and modifications and also tools. Is this a particular automotive enclave where everything is available?.

Option of transplant of a Lexus V8 should the engine be problematic. Have noticed this done a lot. Is it legal or can it be made legal. From what I have seen the conversions seem well done.

Is there a Jag dealer in BKK?.

I will make my decision when there in Oct but would appreciate your imput.

Transam, found your Chip post very interesting.

TC

[VocalNeal]

IMHO the Honda City belong you will last for many, many "high speed" trips to BKK. It's only 200-ish kms. However if it is the previous model to the new one often referred to by some in my social circle as "the ugly car" then I understand.

Sounds as if what you really want is a new project.

On Saturday I followed a Vanden Plas Double-Six. (Year unknown, series 3?) for about a km. I swear even in my car I could smell the musty leather.

[Topcroc]

IMHO the Honda City belong you will last for many, many "high speed" trips to BKK. It's only 200-ish kms. However if it is the previous model to the new one often referred to by some in my social circle as "the ugly car" then I understand.

Sounds as if what you really want is a new project.

On Saturday I followed a Vanden Plas Double-Six. (Year unknown, series 3?) for about a km. I swear even in my car I could smell the musty leather.

[Topcroc]

VN, you are perceptive.

The City we own is 3 yo but the current shape with 50k on the clock. My wife loves it, I feel very vulnerable when driving it.

The Jag would indeed be a project but reliability is very important and while the engine proved reliable it would be a driver. Would only consider engine change if the existing engine gave problems.

I have lived most of my life in a country where reliability from a security point of view is paramount. From a Thai view I often wonder what you do on one of the motorways eg to HH if your car goes U/s.

Obviously Fortuna/Pajero if something goes amiss limp to the next dealer but a Jag, hmmm.

I would not consider any Jag with the Lucas electrics tho models (95-97) seem OK.

I guess I am asking a few questions here on the orig post. I am a newbie and need to find out heaps.

If my wife will not go the SUV route either Fortuna/Pajero what do I get her that has a little more substance to it or do I compromise and keep the City for HH running around and get myself either Jag or Pajero for cruising trips.

[katabeachbum]

VN, you are perceptive.

The City we own is 3 yo but the current shape with 50k on the clock. My wife loves it, I feel very vulnerable when driving it.

The Jag would indeed be a project but reliability is very important and while the engine proved reliable it would be a driver. Would only consider engine change if the existing engine gave problems.

I have lived most of my life in a country where reliability from a security point of view is paramount. From a Thai view I often wonder what you do on one of the motorways eg to HH if your car goes U/s.

Obviously Fortuna/Pajero if something goes amiss limp to the next dealer but a Jag, hmmm.

I would not consider any Jag with the Lucas electrics tho models (95-97) seem OK.

I guess I am asking a few questions here on the orig post. I am a newbie and need to find out heaps.

If my wife will not go the SUV route either Fortuna/Pajero what do I get her that has a little more substance to it or do I compromise and keep the City for HH running around and get myself either Jag or Pajero for cruising trips.

Jag 4,0 sc is a lovely car, but IMHO there is no 15 y o car reliable. Even with tidius maintance, I wouldnt trust it to make a 1000 km trip regulary. Saying that, HH to BKK is a very civiliced are, and a flatbed to bring it to Jag dealer in BKK is doable in a day. I belive present authorised Jag dealer does not have much experience with these old tech cars, so suggest finding a jag club to search best garages.

If you have present City with 2 airbags, I believe crash safety is better than 15 y o Jag

[WarpSpeed]

VN, you are perceptive.

The City we own is 3 yo but the current shape with 50k on the clock. My wife loves it, I feel very vulnerable when driving it.

The Jag would indeed be a project but reliability is very important and while the engine proved reliable it would be a driver. Would only consider engine change if the existing engine gave problems.

I have lived most of my life in a country where reliability from a security point of view is paramount. From a Thai view I often wonder what you do on one of the motorways eg to HH if your car goes U/s.

Obviously Fortuna/Pajero if something goes amiss limp to the next dealer but a Jag, hmmm.

I would not consider any Jag with the Lucas electrics tho models (95-97) seem OK.

I guess I am asking a few questions here on the orig post. I am a newbie and need to find out heaps.

If my wife will not go the SUV route either Fortuna/Pajero what do I get her that has a little more substance to it or do I compromise and keep the City for HH running around and get myself either Jag or Pajero for cruising trips.

Well here's my take. As VN and KBB have said, the Toyota would be very capable and reliable and more over repairable from anywhere along the line and since no car, especially an older model Jag/Ford conversion or not, is going to be 100% reliable. It stands to reason that having something easily repairable and sourcing parts for would be most preferable over a car that is more of a novelty for most. For local jaunts the Jag would be a nice ride but not for regular long distance jaunts IMO if your concerns are as stated, comfort not withstanding.

Furthermore a break down in Jag is a far greater security concern as it brands you a target over the average local Toyota so it seems a bit of contradiction in that regard too..

[thaicbr]

oN THE PETKASEM ROAD about 6 km's before NakhonPathom there is a lovely white Jag (newer one) I can find out the price if ya like.

If ya have money to burn go for the Jag. especially if its not used so often. If you want a reliable fast car then surely a Honda civic 2liter would be a better bet or indeed the Accord.

[Topcroc]

Thai CBR, the Jag you mention is probably the supercharged model that has been on Talrod website for a couple of weeks now. Noticed this morning it is gone.

I get the impression that this model does not stay available for long and indeed this is the only model I have an interest in.

The next model with the V8 has timing belt problems, obviously an easy fix if you do it in time but a disaster if you don't.

Must say the vibes I am getting are very negative.

TC

[thaicbr]

umm dunno. it was there last night when i went passed. its been there about 3-4months now. I don't know if this dealer advertises.

I think the reason your not feeling the love is that every part needs to be imported, there are not many experienced mechanics and i for one am jealous

So if it's an everyday driver there are more efficient machines available. On the other hand if it a powerhouse cruiser that you want and use the city for around town. then its a splendid plan

[katabeachbum]

Thai CBR, the Jag you mention is probably the supercharged model that has been on Talrod website for a couple of weeks now. Noticed this morning it is gone.

I get the impression that this model does not stay available for long and indeed this is the only model I have an interest in.

The next model with the V8 has timing belt problems, obviously an easy fix if you do it in time but a disaster if you don't.

Must say the vibes I am getting are very negative.

TC

Common sense is to go by your heart.

If you can accept car to fail you on occasions, and able to handle a change of schedule when needed, and manage without car while waiting for parts, and pay the 30-100k repairs with a smile, get yourself a lovely Jag:)

Presently I spend most of my time in Phuket, and thus drive Toyotas and Hondas 40-70k km a year. In time I will move to my other home in Hua Hin, and drive to BKK twice a month for business. Then I will drop the reliable boring cars, and your Jag ( I d prefere the later V8) or a BMW 740 approx 10-15 years old will be my ride:D

[Topcroc]

Yes mate, don't see how I can avoid it, common sense or not.

Main thing is to make sure my wife has reliable wheels, I thought the Honda City we own at 50k on the clock was not suitable for constant commuting HH-BKK and probably limited in it's future reliability. As a lady's car it is perfect and she loves it. Many posts above say it is good for a long way yet, like 300k!!. Amazing for a sewing machine.

Will decide in Oct to keep it or get Pajero/Fortuna for her and use it as the daily drive or keep the Honda. If the latter I can go and get my Jag straight away, if the prior a bit later.

A few posts on another thread have had me thinking on safety small car big car in a collision and the end result imo is the larger wins.

Have considered the BMW but the Jag has wolf in sheep's clothing attitude. Must be concise, I am ONLY considering the Sovereign late 1995-97. It has ABS/LSD/Airbags/ not sure on stability control. Ford decided to go with quality part suppliers so most of the devils in the older models have been addressed, perhaps not perfectly but a long way none the less.

If maintained engine is bullet proof as is trany and diff. Lucas is GONE so bottom line is I will live with it.

Did consider other Toys like the MGA at Expat and a few on a site in Chain Mai as an example but small rag tops are too hot in LOS as day trippers.

Should the Jag be unreliable would not hesitate in dropping in a slightly modified Lexus V8.

Made another post which I did not head correctly so no replies.

Can you give me what paper work is required by law on vehicle ownership either new or S/H at transfer. What is road tax? and what would a for example Fortuna cost all up per year for rego, ins etc.

TC

[katabeachbum]

Yes mate, don't see how I can avoid it, common sense or not.

Main thing is to make sure my wife has reliable wheels, I thought the Honda City we own at 50k on the clock was not suitable for constant commuting HH-BKK and probably limited in it's future reliability. As a lady's car it is perfect and she loves it. Many posts above say it is good for a long way yet, like 300k!!. Amazing for a sewing machine.

Will decide in Oct to keep it or get Pajero/Fortuna for her and use it as the daily drive or keep the Honda. If the latter I can go and get my Jag straight away, if the prior a bit later.

A few posts on another thread have had me thinking on safety small car big car in a collision and the end result imo is the larger wins.

Have considered the BMW but the Jag has wolf in sheep's clothing attitude. Must be concise, I am ONLY considering the Sovereign late 1995-97. It has ABS/LSD/Airbags/ not sure on stability control. Ford decided to go with quality part suppliers so most of the devils in the older models have been addressed, perhaps not perfectly but a long way none the less.

If maintained engine is bullet proof as is trany and diff. Lucas is GONE so bottom line is I will live with it.

Did consider other Toys like the MGA at Expat and a few on a site in Chain Mai as an example but small rag tops are too hot in LOS as day trippers.

Should the Jag be unreliable would not hesitate in dropping in a slightly modified Lexus V8.

Made another post which I did not head correctly so no replies.

Can you give me what paper work is required by law on vehicle ownership either new or S/H at transfer. What is road tax? and what would a for example Fortuna cost all up per year for rego, ins etc.

TC

Dont worry about your City

my mate rented a 5 year old Jazz, same car but older model and crappy CVT auto, and I drove it a couple of times. 240k km on it;)

In my homecountry Yaris Versos are popular as taxis, 3 year and 3-500k km before they are replaced

When I was young and on a smaller budget, my wife was driving around in a Fiat Panda with more than 300k km on it. +20 years ago. Never failed, but the cabrio/soft top leaked

Provided info on paperwork in your other thread

Costs Fortuner 3,0 is tax 6800 baht and 1st class insurance 2-3%0 of insured value, approx 20-35k baht

cars older than 10 years hard or impossible to get 1st class insurance. NCB follows car, so buing secondhand always check with insurancecompany on NCB status

Jags with Bosch are finally quality wise on par with BMW, but still, like any +10 y o BMW parts expire on "use before date" making unexpected hotel visits needed on occasions

engine and ZF auto would not be my concern. Is it a Paxton compressor/supercharger? Driven it a few times, fast and fun and a very special sound:)

[Deeral]

2 best days to own a Jag....the day you get it......and the day you get rid.

BTW - putting a chevy in a Jag is not restoration, it's modification.

[Topcroc]

Katabeachbum, thanks all the info:).

Seems I can put the Honda to rest, am now convinced it has a lot of life in it. What is NCB??.

Not sure who manufactures the supercharger, will advise later. The supercharged vehicle is now off the website so assume it is sold.

Deeral, you are correct, my use of resto as opposed to modified. :jap:

[harrry]

2 best days to own a Jag....the day you get it......and the day you get rid.

BTW - putting a chevy in a Jag is not restoration, it's modification.

I would consider it sacrilege.

[Topcroc]

The vehicle I refer to with the 350 chev conversion is located in Papua New Guinea where it has been rebuilt from a wreck to very good condition.

Engine, imagine being in a very third world country and have the only V12 in the country with a big hole in the block. The transplant was a logical decision. Cannot remember the exact details but horse power is similar and the 350 is about 75-100kg lighter. May not be orig but it is a driver and reliable apart from the prince of darkness.

Sacrilege it may be but it has been saved.

[harrry]

The vehicle I refer to with the 350 chev conversion is located in Papua New Guinea where it has been rebuilt from a wreck to very good condition.

Engine, imagine being in a very third world country and have the only V12 in the country with a big hole in the block. The transplant was a logical decision. Cannot remember the exact details but horse power is similar and the 350 is about 75-100kg lighter. May not be orig but it is a driver and reliable apart from the prince of darkness.

Sacrilege it may be but it has been saved.

45 years ago I had to wait 3 months for a rotor button for my Renault Floride to arrive in Moresby. I can understand the owner falling into temptation. His sins may be forgiven.

[Deeral]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

[ya5702]

Have considered the BMW but the Jag has wolf in sheep's clothing attitude. Must be concise, I am ONLY considering the Sovereign late 1995-97. It has ABS/LSD/Airbags/ not sure on stability control. Ford decided to go with quality part suppliers so most of the devils in the older models have been addressed, perhaps not perfectly but a long way none the less.

If maintained engine is bullet proof as is trany and diff. Lucas is GONE so bottom line is I will live with it.

TC

Hey Topcroc

Some words of encouragement:

FYI, my wife owns a 1995 Jaguar XJ6 (the first year model after Ford took over). We visited Jaguar Coventry to see how they make that car. It has 88,000 Km, and still runs like new. We've been all over the USA and Canada in it. No problems. My wife loves the car and would not part with it. We have had a few car dealers offering us unusually high prices for this teenager Jag. They claim to be buying the car for themselves. Unfortunately, it is not for sale.

Being pre-1996, there are no electronic diagnostics (OBDII) messages appearing on the dashboard which drives me crazy in my other (German) car.

If you are like me (read: average Joe with average mechanical sense), there should not be problems doing your own maintenance.

Having owned and driven a fair share of premium cars during the past 45 years, the drive in a Jag is hard to beat.

And hey, you get to live your life once only! Good luck!

[Topcroc]

Ahhh, sure feels good to feel good.

Ya 5752 very encouraging thanks.

Transam, think we were cast from the same mould.:jap:

[harrry]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

The MK VII I had in my twenties was not thirld world but I guess the UK and America can be considered third world now for the newer ones.

[Deeral]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

The MK VII I had in my twenties was not thirld world but I guess the UK and America can be considered third world now for the newer ones.

THe mark VII had the inline 6 which was conceived before WW2.the V12 was basically the same engine and was completely incapable of coping with the driving conditions of the late 20th century.

[harrry]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

The MK VII I had in my twenties was not thirld world but I guess the UK and America can be considered third world now for the newer ones.

THe mark VII had the inline 6 which was conceived before WW2.the V12 was basically the same engine and was completely incapable of copping with the driving conditions of the late 20th century.

The MK VII was completely incapable of copping with the fuel cost conditions of the late 20th century. But it gave me some great memories.

[Deeral]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

The MK VII I had in my twenties was not thirld world but I guess the UK and America can be considered third world now for the newer ones.

THe mark VII had the inline 6 which was conceived before WW2.the V12 was basically the same engine and was completely incapable of copping with the driving conditions of the late 20th century.

The MK VII was completely incapable of copping with the fuel cost conditions of the late 20th century. But it gave me some great memories.

I have some friends who toured UK to Morocco in a Mk VII.

[Deeral]

Driving a Jag is a wonderful experience - owning one is a different matter.

Contrary to some comments here - the inline six models of the 60s and 70s were not the kind of thing that an amateur mechanic could keep in tune at home. THey were fussy cars and needed constant care.

[harrry]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

The MK VII I had in my twenties was not thirld world but I guess the UK and America can be considered third world now for the newer ones.

THe mark VII had the inline 6 which was conceived before WW2.the V12 was basically the same engine and was completely incapable of coping with the driving conditions of the late 20th century.

How can a V12 be the same as a straight six ?

The V12 was designed in the 50's and the production V12 had single over head cams where the 6 had double overhead cams.

As for servicing you are right, the SU's were a pain and tappet adjustment was a major job.

The shims were not so bad to adjust the tappets if you made one of the tools shown in the manual...without it you were in big trouble. The SUs though were another story.

[Deeral]

THe Jag V12 was a "third world" engine

The MK VII I had in my twenties was not thirld world but I guess the UK and America can be considered third world now for the newer ones.

THe mark VII had the inline 6 which was conceived before WW2.the V12 was basically the same engine and was completely incapable of coping with the driving conditions of the late 20th century.

How can a V12 be the same as a straight six ?

The V12 was designed in the 50's and the production V12 had single over head cams where the 6 had double overhead cams.

As for servicing you are right, the SU's were a pain and tappet adjustment was a major job.

Ask Wally I did but you can't 'cos he's dead. - basically it was two sixes joined at the bottom.It was out of date before it went into production.

[WarpSpeed]

Ahhh, sure feels good to feel good.

Ya 5752 very encouraging thanks.

Transam, think we were cast from the same mould.:jap:

Indeed chum.

( but don't tell Warpy theres two of us eh )

And would you like to tell me what comments I've made here in this thread to warrant this? You're mixing threads again T/A and you sure do seem strangely preoccupied and obsessively stalker-like with me T/A it's becoming a bit weird and distressing and while it should be a compliment to have someone constantly obsessed about me like you are, sadly for you, I don't swing that way..

[katabeachbum]

Ahhh, sure feels good to feel good.

Ya 5752 very encouraging thanks.

Transam, think we were cast from the same mould.:jap:

Indeed chum.

( but don't tell Warpy theres two of us eh )

And would you like to tell me what comments I've made here in this thread to warrant this? You're mixing threads again T/A and you sure do seem strangely preoccupied and obsessively stalker-like with me T/A it's becoming a bit weird and distressing and while it should be a compliment to have someone constantly obsessed about me like you are, sadly for you, I don't swing that way..

Bit of fun Warps, everybody knows you on the forum so it's just a bit of fun.

Replacing old 6/12s like in Jag, and V8 3,5/3,9/4,0/4,2 like in Range Rover with Chevy 350 makes a lot of sense. Done it in Range Rover. Less fuss, less fuel, cleaner emission, more power (approx 270hp stock with injection) and even better sounding. Replaced 2,3 4 pot with 350ci in Volvo 245 to, like a new car:)

and loves running cheap LPG

[katabeachbum]

Although l was a Pontiac guy there was lots of rivalry between us and the Chevy guys l really thought that the small block Chevy was a master piece of engineering simplicity that has survived to this day, half a century on. When l rebuilt one l was not impressed with the lack of machining and bolt hole threads entering the water jacket but once bolted up the wee power plant is a very reliable motor.

The possible output that can be achieved with little effort and cheaply is amazing.

and very inexpensive to purchase:D

probably the main reason why most conversion kits are for this engine. Volvo, Range Rover, Jag, you name it