Employee Guarantee Money?

[2leftfeet]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows if hotel employee's in Thailand are required to stump up guarantee money upon starting a contract - my TGF just started contract as a manager with major hotel chain, they wanted 100,000 THB up front guarantee money - allegedly (I'm currently 6000 miles away from LOS) refundable after 3 months.

However, she now wants to quit the job after 3 weeks to get the money back to pay for 'family problems'. It would be a pity for this to happen as opportunities like this don't happen every day. I would offer to cover this money IF I knew it was standard practice. Any advice appreciated!

How much guarantee money would a potential bank manager have to provide?

[bino]

This smells like a scam to me.

I've never heard of any reputable company asking for "guarantee money" like this, because the hotel has nothing to lose. Thai labour law allows a 3 month probation period in which they can terminate her employment or she can quit with no penalties or liability. The onlly thing the employer can lose is time, and they would be willing to accept that if they interviewed / selected her for the position.

The only way there would be a payment like this is if she is not actually an employee but an independent company as "contractor" to the hotel. The money would be a performance guarantee. The total value of the contract payable to your GF would have to be substantially higher than the performance guarantee.

You say that "opportunities like this don't happen every day" and that "she now wants to quit the job after 3 weeks to get the money back to pay for 'family problems'".

Does this mean that she has paid the 100K already? What opportunity is there exactly in a job that she is willing to quit, even though it must pay extremely well? Family problems? What kind of problems? Has she justified the 100K?

Does she in fact have this job, or is it all b*llshit? Have you tried calling the hotel and asking for her during business hours?

I'd suggest that you advise her to keep her job, and go to the bank for a loan. Thai banks are giving money away at low rates these days, and she would probably qualify easily with the high paying position she now has, and showing them the "security money" documentation as collateral.

She might not ever talk to you again when you suggest this- but that would be the desired outcome, because she is clearly trying to use you if you are foolish enough to go for it.

Maybe it is true- and another member can offer some insight. I'd love to read about it.

Edited July 16, 2005 by bino

[LoveDaBlues]

This smells bad Step back......don't pay anything.

[Dragonman]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows if hotel employee's in Thailand  are required to stump up guarantee money upon starting a contract - my TGF just started contract as a manager with major hotel chain, they wanted 100,000 THB up front guarantee money - allegedly (I'm currently 6000 miles away from LOS) refundable after 3 months.

However, she now wants to quit the job after 3 weeks to get the money back to pay for 'family problems'.  It would be a pity for this to happen as opportunities like this don't happen every day.  I would offer to cover this money IF I knew it was standard practice.  Any advice appreciated!

How much guarantee money would a potential bank manager have to provide? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if it's true, which I personally doubt, consider carefully whether you want a long term relationship with a girl who will give up a good job on her family's request for cash. The requests will snowball when they know you have given the money.

[Khutan]

Sounds very strange, I would keep away from it.

What is to stop them sacking her and keeping the money ?

[Kringle]

TROLL and if not, you have more problems than just 2leftfeet. Who pray tell put up this money to begin with? If you, then man you must be the most gullable person on the planet. "MAJOR HOTEL CHAIN" is going to ask for an employee to put up money to get a job, come on now, doesn't that seem in the least bit ODD (to say the least) that they would require this.

I'll stick with the troll bit as I really can't believe ANYONE could be this stupid or naive. If you have been, then I would be right footing it outta this situation and just count the 100,000 baht as a gift to your girlfriend the thief.

[MikeRay]

With a regulary income she can apply for a credit.

[Joey Boy]

many hotels ask for this especially ones owned by thai-chinese, its usually more of a equipment deposit to the tune of 5 to 10'000 baht for the uniform etc though

[RamdomChances]

I've heard of this sort of thing before. Usually where handling money is involved. One of my staff's brother works for the electricity company collecting money, he has to put a bond up of 50,000. A lot of haulage firms ask for some sort of bond and I've heard that you have to put one up to work in a bank (though not sure on that one). Anyway I have no idea if its true or not, smells a bit to me but some companies do actually ask for a bond.

RC

[2leftfeet]

I've heard of this sort of thing before. Usually where handling money is involved. One of my staff's brother works for the electricity company collecting money, he has to put a bond up of 50,000. A lot of haulage firms ask for some sort of bond and I've heard that you have to put one up to work in a bank (though not sure on that one).  Anyway I have no idea if its true or not, smells a bit to me but some companies do actually ask for a bond.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, handling money is just one part of her job, as in her previous contract, which BTW was as a hotel manager - I know this 'cos I was there when she was working.

I also know how much she earned there.

It just sounded strange to have to put up money to sart a contract, she reckoned it should've been 200,000 THB, but the MD cut her some slack?! I haven't parted with any cash yet (ever) - she's paid the 'bond' which she should get back in 3 months.

I am aware of her family issues - she does have money - although not at the moment, it is tied up with loans to several other family members, who seem to treat her as a free money lender. The dodgy bit is that I did suggest a bank loan, but she seems to have a certain distrust of banks.

Just for some background - I've known this girl for over two years - she is a generous person - will not allow me to spend ANY money when I visit, and even pays for all transport/hotels/meals etc when we travel.

This is the only time I've considered assisting her, as she seemed genuinley distressed. However, I am aware that long haul scams exist, and perhaps this could be the start of payback time. I hope not.

[Kringle]

It's called a BONDING COMPANY that usally puts up the guarantee for an employee and would not be anywhere near what she would be bonded for.

Does seem more to be the long winded scam as why else would this woman be insisting on paying for everything unless:

1) you are the greatest lover in the world

2) the best looking guy in the world

3) She's in love with you

$) you have a lot of money and she wants to marry you

$$) This is just a long winded scam

Why would she quit a job after only 3 weeks to get money for her family. Just seems way too weird to me.

[Joey Boy]

will not allow me to spend ANY money when I visit, and even pays for all transport/hotels/meals etc when we travel.

Cheap Charlie

[Joey Boy]

I've heard of this sort of thing before. Usually where handling money is involved. One of my staff's brother works for the electricity company collecting money, he has to put a bond up of 50,000. A lot of haulage firms ask for some sort of bond and I've heard that you have to put one up to work in a bank (though not sure on that one).  Anyway I have no idea if its true or not, smells a bit to me but some companies do actually ask for a bond.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, handling money is just one part of her job, as in her previous contract, which BTW was as a hotel manager - I know this 'cos I was there when she was working.

I also know how much she earned there.

It just sounded strange to have to put up money to sart a contract, she reckoned it should've been 200,000 THB, but the MD cut her some slack?! I haven't parted with any cash yet (ever) - she's paid the 'bond' which she should get back in 3 months.

I am aware of her family issues - she does have money - although not at the moment, it is tied up with loans to several other family members, who seem to treat her as a free money lender. The dodgy bit is that I did suggest a bank loan, but she seems to have a certain distrust of banks.

Just for some background - I've known this girl for over two years - she is a generous person - will not allow me to spend ANY money when I visit, and even pays for all transport/hotels/meals etc when we travel.

This is the only time I've considered assisting her, as she seemed genuinley distressed. However, I am aware that long haul scams exist, and perhaps this could be the start of payback time. I hope not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How bigs is the hotel and whats her salary?? 200'000 is more than 3 months wages for most thai hotel managers

[2leftfeet]

It's called a BONDING COMPANY that usally puts up the guarantee for an employee and would not be anywhere near what she would be bonded for.

  Does seem more to be the long winded scam as why else would this woman be insisting on paying for everything unless:

1) you are the greatest lover in the world

2) the best looking guy in the world

3) She's in love with you

$) you have a lot of money and she wants to marry you

$$) This is just a long winded scam

Why would she quit a job after only 3 weeks to get money for her family. Just seems way too weird to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, OK, 1,2 & 3 may or may not apply! lets say it is a scam, she knows I don't earn big bucks (she does want to marry me though), why bother with small fish when there's bigger catches out there? She wants me to move to Thailand where my money earning capability would be severely reduced, and I don't teach english.

My only income would be from leasing my home, which would be minimal.

It's truly bizzarre - the day she got the contract, I never heard anyone so excited, yet 3 weeks later thinking about jacking it, she could easy earn that kinda money in 2-3 month, plus recover the bond, and pay off any bank loan.

BTW, I do know where all her family stay, including her mother- don't know if that counts for much though.

[bino]

It's called a BONDING COMPANY that usally puts up the guarantee for an employee and would not be anywhere near what she would be bonded for.

I'm with you Kringle- a bonding company would be putting up the bond- much like an insurance policy. After a thorough credit and criminal screening, the bonded person (or more likely their employer) would pay a premium... never the full amount.

And- if this was a surety bond, it wouldn't be refunded after 3 months.

Deposits for uniforms are usually withheld from paychecks- not demanded upfront in cash.

If she really is a hotel manager with a track record in the field, she is credible beyond belief and would have no problem getting loans from the bank. The fact that she says she doesn't trust banks is a crock because she would be doing daily business with them as a hotel manager.

I think the woman should call the loans on her current family members- tell them to help out the family members currently in "distress".

To the OP- tell us the nature of her family problems- if you search the forum you will find posts about the costs of sick buffaloes. Not 100K for sure.

If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside to give her the money, and you can still sleep at night knowing that you are a sucker- then go for it. If it comforts you- take some solace in the fact that you're not the first (or the last) to be screwed like this.

[2leftfeet]

I've heard of this sort of thing before. Usually where handling money is involved. One of my staff's brother works for the electricity company collecting money, he has to put a bond up of 50,000. A lot of haulage firms ask for some sort of bond and I've heard that you have to put one up to work in a bank (though not sure on that one).  Anyway I have no idea if its true or not, smells a bit to me but some companies do actually ask for a bond.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, handling money is just one part of her job, as in her previous contract, which BTW was as a hotel manager - I know this 'cos I was there when she was working.

I also know how much she earned there.

It just sounded strange to have to put up money to sart a contract, she reckoned it should've been 200,000 THB, but the MD cut her some slack?! I haven't parted with any cash yet (ever) - she's paid the 'bond' which she should get back in 3 months.

I am aware of her family issues - she does have money - although not at the moment, it is tied up with loans to several other family members, who seem to treat her as a free money lender. The dodgy bit is that I did suggest a bank loan, but she seems to have a certain distrust of banks.

Just for some background - I've known this girl for over two years - she is a generous person - will not allow me to spend ANY money when I visit, and even pays for all transport/hotels/meals etc when we travel.

This is the only time I've considered assisting her, as she seemed genuinley distressed. However, I am aware that long haul scams exist, and perhaps this could be the start of payback time. I hope not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How bigs is the hotel and whats her salary?? 200'000 is more than 3 months wages for most thai hotel managers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Big hotel - circa 500 rooms. She was on 60,000 in her previous contract, but she was putting in crazy hours. The new contract is 40,000 for normal hours with promise of 60,000 in a few months and more thereafter. Too good to be true??

[taxin]

Come on guys, we should be helping each other here. Yes Thais need money and this is how they do it with us Farangs but its still wrong !!

The ammount of times I hear the same old story "But she never asks for money when im in Thailand"... "But I didnt meet her in a bar"..... bla, blah. blah

To say that I am sick of hearing it would be an understatement. It is common knowledge that the long term kill is always the most common & deadliest of them all !

I havent read the full thread and to be honest I dont want to. ADVICE; stay well away !

2nd bit of advice: Next time you come here sleep with her sister and buy her a big &lt;deleted&gt; off gold chain, then say to the one who has tried to scam you "this gold chain would have been yours had you not tried to scam me" !!!

Sorry, for the outburst but it just winds me up when I read this sh*t !

[Joey Boy]

2leftfeet I have been asked for the same sort of thing a few times, the most recently by a bit of student pussy - she wanted 9'000 baht to pay her uni fees as her parents never had it..

Little did she know that when I first met her, one of her friends had pointed a property out to me and said that this girls house was like that, the place was no tin hut

They'll tell ya whatever they thinks a good enough reason to milk ya for a bit of coin!

[Ijustwannateach]

Most folks I know in regular jobs here do work a month or two for "free" as a deposit (refundable on completion of contract with proper notice) or get some money deducted every month for a few months for the same purpose; but we're talking a month's salary being 4-6K. The story your gal told you is simply unbelievable (unless, potentially, what she's really being asked for is a "bribe" to get into a good job paying well- in which case that's not unbelievable in Asia- but it would have to be a pretty darn good job).

"Steven"

[raro]

1) there are HR Managers who take a one month commission from the "qualified" candidate...

2) girls have also other means to get the job

3) 100k Deposit sounds to me believable, as cashiers and other employees handling money regularly have to submit a deposit

4) They have lots of time if they are on a long-term revenue model...putting in some freebies in the beginning is part of the scheme.

5) I still believe there are some decent girls around

[expatinasia]

"It would be a pity for this to happen as opportunities like this don't happen every day. I would offer to cover this money IF I knew it was standard practice. Any advice appreciated!"

Thank God "opportunities like this don't happen every day". Paying B100,000 for nothing. Wow. How can I get on that gravy train?

[otherstuff1957]

I ran this scenario passed my wife and here's her take:

1. The Employee Guarantee money (bond) is fairly common for senior hotel employees. She thought that 100,000 sounded high, but not impossible.

2. She doesn't think that the girlfriend will really quit her job, she is just saying that she will, thinking that if you really love her you'll come up with 50,000 or so tp help her out.

Now here's my take on the situation:

You girl isn't scamming you. The situation is actually MUCH WORSE than that!

Your girlfriend is a lot like many other Thai women. I'm going to guess that she is the oldest daughter. As such, she is the primary caregiver for her family. She takes care of her parents, brothers, sisters, cousins and assorted friends. This caretaking often takes the form of loans that will never be repaid. While she may occasionally feel upset about the non-performing loans, if she did not give them out, she would probably feel even worse about not helping her family.

As a potential mate, you will be expected to join her in taking care of this army of useless hangers on!

If you two are serious, you need to have a long, face to face chat about what you will and willnot do for her family. If you can both compromise and set up some guidelines about fiscal responsibility, you will have many fewer problems in the future.

[2leftfeet]

Cheers Otherstuff, yep you just 'bout got the nail on the head! only she's not the eldest, just the highest earner. She's generous to a fault and will help nearly anyone in need. I did some probing on the guarantee thing - it's directly proportionate to the total amount of cash one can be exposed to, i.e 'bond' for Senior manager: 100,000-200,000; Cashier: 50,000; receptionist: zilch. Some of these employees can be exposed to near 2 mil. in one day, the temptation can be too much for some, hence some form of insurance paid directly by the individual.

Also she is working where she says she is.

She knows I'm not rich, but you're right, a chat regarding what is expected from me further down the road is a good idea.

Thanks for the sound advice.

Raro, I believe in 5) also.

I ran this scenario passed my wife and here's her take: 

1.  The Employee Guarantee money (bond) is fairly common for senior hotel employees.  She thought that 100,000 sounded high, but not impossible. 

2.  She doesn't think that the girlfriend will really quit her job, she is just saying that she will, thinking that if you really love her you'll come up with 50,000 or so tp help her out.

Now here's my take on the situation:

You girl isn't scamming you.  The situation is actually MUCH WORSE than that!

Your girlfriend is a lot like many other Thai women.  I'm going to guess that she is the oldest daughter.  As such, she is the primary caregiver for her family.  She takes care of her parents, brothers, sisters, cousins and assorted friends.  This caretaking often takes the form of loans that will never be repaid.  While she may occasionally feel upset about the non-performing loans, if she did not give them out, she would probably feel even worse about not helping her family.

As a potential mate, you will be expected to join her in taking care of this army of useless hangers on! 

If you two are serious, you need to have a long, face to face chat about what you will and willnot do for her family.  If you can both compromise and set up some guidelines about fiscal responsibility, you will have many fewer problems in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Neeranam]

Man, I think all the negative posters are just jealous that they don't have a girlfriend earning that amount of cash. Go for it, sounds perfectly legit to me.

The chat will be very important, and you should make sure you cover you arse.

[Dragonman]

Man, I think all the negative posters are just jealous that they don't have a girlfriend earning that amount of cash. Go for it, sounds perfectly legit to me.

The chat will be very important, and you should make sure you cover you arse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing is that however much she earns will be worth nothing to either of them if the family feel they have first call, as otherstuff1957 says. I've seen my wife go through a packet( her money) keeping everyone happy. Only I see the tears afterwards when she realises she's sold gold, motorbikes, her flat, her business just so that the family wouldn't tell everyone what a terrible daughter she is. This is the blackmail she is probably going through.

[taxin]

Why is it that people will always assume just because a Thai has money or a good job that they are not likely to scam anyone ?

Believe me, the ones who have it are just as likely to be greedy for more !!

"But she has a good job ?"..... "but she never asks for anything ?".... "but when I come to see her she pays ?"... etc, etc What this means is the girl has already succeeded in eliminating the possibility of any doubts you may have when she does go for the big one, shes simply done this in advance ! Its purely psychological, and extremely clever !

A smart Thai girl knows that there will be some form of "benefit of doubt" when the time comes for her to go for the kill. She cannot afford for the farang to have any doubts whatsoever therefore, what she must do is eliminate the benefit of doubt very early on. To do this effectively she would have to put a lot of time into it to make sure it works, she knows that she will probably only get one crack at it.... but knows it will be a VERY good one !!

Not asking for too much money, using the well paid job to create the look of her not needing money and even paying her own way all equates to one factor, to create the illusion which will evidently block out any doubts that shes having you over !!! The farang mind is very easily manipulated by the Thai lady, shes knows this and will take full advantage of it !

Its a classic long term kill, nothing we have never heard or seen before ! Very clinical !

Happens to be the main cause for the jumpers too I believe, make sure this guy doesn’t book into a room above 3 floors !!!!!!

[Hikage]

Why is it that people will always assume just because a Thai has money or a good job that they are not likely to scam anyone ?   

Believe me, the ones who have it are just as likely to be greedy for more !!

"But she has a good job ?"..... "but she never asks for anything ?".... "but when I come to see her she pays ?"...  etc, etc      What this means is the girl has already succeeded in eliminating the possibility of any doubts you may have when she does go for the big one, shes simply done this in advance !    Its purely psychological, and extremely clever !   

A smart Thai girl knows that there will be some form of "benefit of doubt" when the time comes for her to go for the kill.    She cannot afford for the farang to have any doubts whatsoever therefore, what she must do is eliminate the benefit of doubt very early on.      To do this effectively she would have to put a lot of time into it to make sure it works, she knows that she will probably only get one crack at it.... but knows it will be a VERY good one !!

Not asking for too much money, using the well paid job to create the look of her not needing money and even paying her own way all equates to one factor, to create the illusion which will evidently block out any doubts that shes having you over !!!    The farang mind is very easily manipulated by the Thai lady, shes knows this and will take full advantage of it !

Its a classic long term kill, nothing we have never heard or seen before !    Very clinical !   

Happens to be the main cause for the jumpers too I believe, make sure this guy doesn’t book into a room above 3 floors !!!!!!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally sound advice, but may or may not relate to this case. There are always exceptions. Keep your a*se covered 2leftfeet.

[2leftfeet]

Why is it that people will always assume just because a Thai has money or a good job that they are not likely to scam anyone ?    

Believe me, the ones who have it are just as likely to be greedy for more !!

"But she has a good job ?"..... "but she never asks for anything ?".... "but when I come to see her she pays ?"...  etc, etc      What this means is the girl has already succeeded in eliminating the possibility of any doubts you may have when she does go for the big one, shes simply done this in advance !     Its purely psychological, and extremely clever !   

A smart Thai girl knows that there will be some form of "benefit of doubt" when the time comes for her to go for the kill.     She cannot afford for the farang to have any doubts whatsoever therefore, what she must do is eliminate the benefit of doubt very early on.      To do this effectively she would have to put a lot of time into it to make sure it works, she knows that she will probably only get one crack at it.... but knows it will be a VERY good one !!

Not asking for too much money, using the well paid job to create the look of her not needing money and even paying her own way all equates to one factor, to create the illusion which will evidently block out any doubts that shes having you over !!!     The farang mind is very easily manipulated by the Thai lady, shes knows this and will take full advantage of it !

Its a classic long term kill, nothing we have never heard or seen before !    Very clinical !    

Happens to be the main cause for the jumpers too I believe, make sure this guy doesn’t book into a room above 3 floors !!!!!!    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally sound advice, but may or may not relate to this case. There are always exceptions. Keep your a*se covered 2leftfeet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair comment guys - consider my a*se kevlar/titanium covered, perhaps with bunjee attached. Not sure what the 'big kill' would entail? but if this WAS it, I'd consider it a fairly poor attempt. Again, she knows I'm not wealthy, why bother wasting 2 years of her life on a 'relatively' measly 100k? and if there were any scams planned, methinks I wouldn't be the only disappointed party - Cheap Charlie I think Joey Boy implied - correct.

[bino]

why bother wasting 2 years of her life on a 'relatively' measly 100k?

100K is hardly "measly" to any Thai person- rich or poor. In fact, it is equal to a year's wages for a lot of the population who earn 8K per month. For someone like her who has a decent job, 100K is a substantial downpayment on a shiny new car... remaining payments would be about 3-4 k per month.

Why do you feel it is necessary to underwrite her indecision? She allegedly made the decision to leave a 60 K job and take a 40K job. Why does she want to quit such a great job after only 3 weeks? If she stays with the job for 2 months she will supposedly earn 80K, which would solve all the family problems, and have her 100K returned.

Has she discussed any repayment terms with you? Probably not.

Also- if you go for it, you will prove to her that she has set you up perfectly as taxin described, and there will be no end of these "measly" requests. In fact, the next problem will probably be much bigger, since a precedent has been set.

[Joey Boy]

it's directly proportionate to the total amount of cash one can be exposed to, i.e 'bond' for Senior manager: 100,000-200,000; Cashier: 50,000; receptionist: zilch.

Ex gf of mines been a cashier @ 2 big well known hotels, she had to give 10k @ the first and nadda @ the 2nd