Is Thailand Becoming A Censored Society?

[somtampet]

So any communist country havent got the elitists and the corruption for the few,just the same as the Thai rich

Sure, all the communist countries have some corruption by their elites as well but it's nothing in comparison to the scale of greed demonstrated by the privileged in Thailand.

I agree that the thai elite are probably the most greedy people on this planet,no thought for the majority of very poor thais and a complete disregard for law and order.The amount of banned websites and the throttling of broadband download speeds is the start of a north korea style management.New job creation is for the elite family,whether they can do the job or not,exam results for hi-so sons/daughters are made up to look much better than they are.

I call that a form of communism and it will come in my lifetime i am sure

How broad do you see 'Thai elite'? does it include K. Thaksin and his hi-so children who can only find their shopping items in the original shops in Paris ?

Whether you hate Thaksin or love the man,i think he has no chance of a return.However the more elitist the country becomes i believe there WILL be bigger red movement than before,as this country cannot continue with the few powerful figures.One thing will stop the reds winning and thats a lack of money,but there is an air of despondency within the working class thais and they will not be trodden on any more.

[Groongthep]

I agree that the thai elite are probably the most greedy people on this planet,no thought for the majority of very poor thais and a complete disregard for law and order.The amount of banned websites and the throttling of broadband download speeds is the start of a north korea style management.New job creation is for the elite family,whether they can do the job or not,exam results for hi-so sons/daughters are made up to look much better than they are.

I call that a form of communism and it will come in my lifetime i am sure

It think you are confusing the terms corruption and communism. Communism is an economic and political system. Corruption is the crime of abusing ones position of responsibility for ones own benefit. Corruption can and does exist in all economic and political systems. Depending on who is in charge of the system, it can be much worse in some than in others.

[Groongthep]

How broad do you see 'Thai elite'? does it include K. Thaksin and his hi-so children who can only find their shopping items in the original shops in Paris ?

Yes.

[somtampet]

I agree that the thai elite are probably the most greedy people on this planet,no thought for the majority of very poor thais and a complete disregard for law and order.The amount of banned websites and the throttling of broadband download speeds is the start of a north korea style management.New job creation is for the elite family,whether they can do the job or not,exam results for hi-so sons/daughters are made up to look much better than they are.

I call that a form of communism and it will come in my lifetime i am sure

It think you are confusing the terms corruption and communism. Communism is an economic and political system. Corruption is the crime of abusing ones position of responsibility for ones own benefit. Corruption can and does exist in all economic and political systems. Depending on who is in charge of the system, it can be much worse in some than in others.

I know mate,i googled it too.My point is that Thailand is on its way not Thailand is a communist country

[rubl]

"quote name='somtampet' timestamp='1284114143' post='3874985'"

So any communist country havent got the elitists and the corruption for the few,just the same as the Thai rich

"/quote"

Sure, all the communist countries have some corruption by their elites as well but it's nothing in comparison to the scale of greed demonstrated by the privileged in Thailand.

I agree that the thai elite are probably the most greedy people on this planet,no thought for the majority of very poor thais and a complete disregard for law and order.The amount of banned websites and the throttling of broadband download speeds is the start of a north korea style management.New job creation is for the elite family,whether they can do the job or not,exam results for hi-so sons/daughters are made up to look much better than they are.

I call that a form of communism and it will come in my lifetime i am sure

How broad do you see 'Thai elite'? does it include K. Thaksin and his hi-so children who can only find their shopping items in the original shops in Paris ?

Whether you hate Thaksin or love the man,i think he has no chance of a return.However the more elitist the country becomes i believe there WILL be bigger red movement than before,as this country cannot continue with the few powerful figures.One thing will stop the reds winning and thats a lack of money,but there is an air of despondency within the working class thais and they will not be trodden on any more.

Could you answer my question, please ?

[Groongthep]

I know mate,i googled it too.My point is that Thailand is on its way not Thailand is a communist country

I didn't Google anything my friend and I just can't agree with your fear that Thailand will soon become a Communist country. The locals can simply look across the border into Laos and Cambodia and see how much better off they (the Thais) are in comparison to their Communist neighbors and realize that they don't want to go backwards and end up like them. There is a very real chance however that the long progression of dictatorships which have followed one another here in Thailand will continue and little or no progress will ever be made in rectifying the huge disparity in income and standard of living between rich and poor here in this country.

[somtampet]

I know mate,i googled it too.My point is that Thailand is on its way not Thailand is a communist country

I didn't Google anything my friend and I just can't agree with your fear that Thailand will soon become a Communist country. The locals can simply look across the border into Laos and Cambodia and see how much better off they (the Thais) are in comparison to their Communist neighbors and realize that they don't want to go backwards and end up like them. There is a very real chance however that the long progression of dictatorships which have followed one another here in Thailand will continue and little or no progress will ever be made in rectifying the huge disparity in income and standard of living between rich and poor here in this country.

What thais are them,the Bangkok elite or the rice farmers who get stitched up every day with the middlemen making all the money

[way2muchcoffee]

What thais are them,the Bangkok elite or the rice farmers who get stitched up every day with the middlemen making all the money

Don't you think the rice millers and middleman would more appropriately be called the 'rural elite'? The Bangkok elite by and large are into a whole other game, and a much more profitable one, with manufacturing and exports.

Edited September 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[waza]

I know mate,i googled it too.My point is that Thailand is on its way not Thailand is a communist country

I didn't Google anything my friend and I just can't agree with your fear that Thailand will soon become a Communist country. The locals can simply look across the border into Laos and Cambodia and see how much better off they (the Thais) are in comparison to their Communist neighbors and realize that they don't want to go backwards and end up like them. There is a very real chance however that the long progression of dictatorships which have followed one another here in Thailand will continue and little or no progress will ever be made in rectifying the huge disparity in income and standard of living between rich and poor here in this country.

Cambodia isnt communist. China is and its standard of living is improving in leaps and bounds.

[kalbo123]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

[Buchholz]

(like Giles "Ji" Ungpakorn) have already been exiled or threatened with violence if they don't desist.

Just for the record, Giles is a criminal fugitive. The only exile he is in, is self-exile.

[nisakiman]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

Yes, the LM laws render all political debate on this forum meaningless.

And how many websites are blocked in Thailand?

As already mentioned, censorship in Thailand is the norm, and has been for a long time.

[rubl]

(like Giles "Ji" Ungpakorn) have already been exiled or threatened with violence if they don't desist.

Just for the record, Giles is a criminal fugitive. The only exile he is in, is self-exile.

Just for the fun of it, Ungpakorn vs Cunningham (2010-05-20). Also described as "Philip Cunningham, a journalist lived in Thailand and taught in the same Chulalong university as Giles, point-blank exclaimed "Giles, you are so naive I just can't believe it"; "you are so hungry for the left to do something""

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-PPpGScujQ

[whybother]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

Yes, the LM laws render all political debate on this forum meaningless.

And how many websites are blocked in Thailand?

As already mentioned, censorship in Thailand is the norm, and has been for a long time.

Not all political debate. There is a lot of political debate that can occur without specific mention of a particular person or family that may or may not be involved in politics.

Edited September 10, 2010 by whybother

[SpoliaOpima]

One thing will stop the reds winning and thats a lack of money,but there is an air of despondency within the working class thais and they will not be trodden on any more.

Spoken like a true communist.

[sabaijai]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

The whole idea of the forum is clearly explained in the Forum Rules, which you agreed to follow when you signed up as a member on this privately owned forum. If you don't like the way in which the forum is moderated, contact admin.

[phetaroi]

Even before reading this read, but even more so since reading it, I'd have a difficult time defining Thailand by any near-standard definition.

Is it a democracy? Well, to one degree or another, dependent on the time and situation.

Does it have freedom of speech? Well, yes, sort of, depending on the topic.

Are there communist elements within Thailand? I didn't think so...until recently...and it bothers me that they seem rather well accepted by everyday Thais (or is it that the average Thai just doesn't care).

Is the government structure communistic? Well, not really...although there are times some of its tactics remind one of some of the tactics used by both communist and socialist governments. And there are other times the government seems very responsive and progressive.

So I know what kind of state Thailand is:

"What's-convenient-at-the-time-and-place-ism".

In other words, I'm not sure Thai society operates on any set of principles.

Edited September 10, 2010 by phetaroi

[Buchholz]

(like Giles "Ji" Ungpakorn) have already been exiled or threatened with violence if they don't desist.

Just for the record, Giles is a criminal fugitive. The only exile he is in, is self-exile.

I believe Giles does a good job in rubl’s above YouTube interview arguing against Cunningham who refuses to accept that the red shirt movement is made up primarily of ordinary citizens fighting for justice.

I particularly liked how the fugitive Giles says the Reds are a peaceful movement.

I do respect his honesty to admitting to Cunningham's slam that Red Shirts are anti-gay and anti-foreigner.

As the time Giles spends 10,000 kilometers away from Thailand grows (it's been over a year since he ran away), his ability to know what is happening here lessens, not that it was all that accurate to begin with.

His Marxist rants are suitable only for the obscure socialist websites that will publish it. His continual ravings against that which nearly Thai holds dear have permanently sealed his fate. His extremist views are shared only by a pitifully small handful of Thais and a minuscule smattering of unknowing foreigners. It has sealed his fate in that he will never return to Thailand and so he turns his attention to petty disagreements with school boards in the U.K.

It's funny to read about some of his current "conflicts" now that he's fled from justified charges in Thailand.

He's made his bed and seems prepared to lay in it... which is fine, better there than here.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Buchholz

[Ricardo]

I seem to recall over 4 years ago, Bangkok Post was threatened with a lawsuit by the government then and subsequently fired their reporter for reporting about cracks in the newly opened Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

And after the coup, part of this airport had to be closed for repairs, and the old airport reopened, meaning the early reports were factual.

And only now you are asking this question?

Amsterdam's number 1 client seemed to have a different take on freedom of press back then..

Yes, one well remembers how hard it was, for Sondhi to spread the word about corruption under TRT/Thaksin, he had to resort to selling/circulating VCDs of the early-PAD-meetings in order to get the news out.

Billion-baht law-suits, against any paper which dared to criticise the then-government, or break unwelcome news, ring any bells ?

So censorship & self-censorship are nothing new here.

Having said which, there has to be more press-freedom in the long-run, as part of any move towards a more-free & more-democratic society.

But that also requires citizens sensible-enough to ignore blatant rabble-rousing and calls for violence on-the-streets.

Don't hold your breath !

[canuckamuck]

Thailand is highly censored, always has been, the article was simply page filler like the majority of Thai news articles.

The red leaders are baiting the common man with socialist utopia. It is a proven method for stealing power when you can't get it through usual channels. There is more trouble ahead.

[hammered]

What people talk about now is far far more open than it used to be. Media sources may be censored but you cant stop people thinking and talking about things.

And you cant stop new websites opening up every day

And the big one is you cant change the coming generations into what you want them to be.

[chainarong]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

Depends what you want to write??? it's the same everywhere, try for example anti Islamic garble in the New York Times and see if it gets published.

Edit: s on gets

Edited September 11, 2010 by chainarong

[canuckamuck]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

Depends what you want to write??? it's the same everywhere, try for example anti Islamic garble in the New York Times and see if it gets published.

Edit: s on gets

Oh, so it's not censored if you write what they want to write. OK I get it.

[Groongthep]

I particularly liked how the fugitive Giles says the Reds are a peaceful movement.

I do respect his honesty to admitting to Cunningham's slam that Red Shirts are anti-gay and anti-foreigner.

As the time Giles spends 10,000 kilometers away from Thailand grows (it's been over a year since he ran away), his ability to know what is happening here lessens, not that it was all that accurate to begin with.

His Marxist rants are suitable only for the obscure socialist websites that will publish it. His continual ravings against that which nearly Thai holds dear have permanently sealed his fate. His extremist views are shared only by a pitifully small handful of Thais and a minuscule smattering of unknowing foreigners. It has sealed his fate in that he will never return to Thailand and so he turns his attention to petty disagreements with school boards in the U.K.

It's funny to read about some of his current "conflicts" now that he's fled from justified charges in Thailand.

He's made his bed and seems prepared to lay in it... which is fine, better there than here.

It appears you missed the point of my post. I too have had my reservations about many of Giles' unconventional opinions, but the topic of the thread was censorship. There have already been scores of pro and anti Red/Yellow threads on this forum, and it was not my intention to rehash another one of those unending and unwinnable discussions. (Although I couldn't help but express myself a little bit on the subject.)

What motivated my post was your description of Giles Ungpakorn as a "criminal fugitive". You are obviously on the elitist-right side of the fence and I am sure that nothing will ever change your position, but any opinion, whether you like it or not, deserves to be heard. For a university professor to be criminally charged for writing a book on politics, history and society regardless of content is unacceptable in any country claiming to be free. For Ungpakorn to be labeled a "criminal" is absurd. It is a law that allows free citizens to be made into offenders for expressing their thoughts which is indeed criminal.

You have a right to your opinion so why not him? I disagree with your opinion, but at least I try to show some respect for your right to express it .

By-the-way your addition of the thingy lends little maturity or credibility to your statements, but you can do whatever you want even if Giles Ungpakorn can’t.

[rixalex]

For the red shirts to become a legitimate movement about "ordinary citizens fighting for justice", they need to actually have some policies that are about "ordinary citizens fighting for justice". I don't think I have seen any policies that would actually help the poor. All they can come up with is "put us in power" and "bring Thaksin back".

Indeed.

And further to coming up with policies, what would really help them, and i have no doubt win them much greater support, would be to ditch the red shirt movement and regroup as a new movement that is completely detached from Thaksin, because whatever they say and however many times they say it, people will always associate the reds with him and be suspicious about its aims with regards to his future in Thailand.

Why won't they do that? Well aside from the practical aspect of requiring his and his family and friends' financial input, the truth is that when you actually speak to and listen to many red shirts at the grassroots level, you will find - contrary to what we are told here by certain members desperate to give the group credence - that they do still support Thaksin and would like nothing more than to see him return, cleared of all charges, and put back in power. You don't have to be a yellow shirt nor a Democrat to find that idea highly objectionable.

[rixalex]

You are obviously on the elitist-right side of the fence and I am sure that nothing will ever change your position, but any opinion, whether you like it or not, deserves to be heard.

By any opinion, do you really mean any opinion? It's a serious question.

To state the obvious, any covers a wide spectrum.

P.S. Do you think slapping political labels on people helps the debate? It's my belief that the red shirt movement has definite right wing tendencies, but i wouldn't label you as being such because i feel that simply sympathising / supporting a group, doesn't necessarily politically define a person. By the same token, nor does being against a group.

[Insight]

The mud-slinging is reaching new levels of ridiculousness. Just for highlighting any one of the vast number of flaws with the so-called red shirt movement baseless accusations such as being a "right-wing elitist" are thrown around with zero justification.

The biggest downfall of western-based media in Thailand IMHO was falling for this whole "red shirts have gone beyond Thaksin" nonsense when many of the Thais now and even back then, including the red shirt supporters as Rixalex has pointed out, knew otherwise. As it turned out Thaksin was bankrolling the whole lot, and there has been very little in the way of denials from the reds regarding this.

[rubl]

Even this forum is censored.

And I thought the whole idea about a forum is, is that you can write what you want, and then others can agree or disagree with you.

But not in Thailand.

Depends what you want to write??? it's the same everywhere, try for example anti Islamic garble in the New York Times and see if it gets published.

Edit: s on gets

Oh, so it's not censored if you write what they want to write. OK I get it.

Your statement in itself seems logically correct, but covers only a subset of what you can write and what will be published. I might as well say that what is against the rules here will be removed, equally valid. does it help this discussion? No.

[canuckamuck]

Oh, so it's not censored if you write what they want to write. OK I get it.

Your statement in itself seems logically correct, but covers only a subset of what you can write and what will be published. I might as well say that what is against the rules here will be removed, equally valid. does it help this discussion? No.

Explain again how this forum is not censored, I am sure I don't follow.

[whybother]

Explain again how this forum is not censored, I am sure I don't follow.

This forum is openly censored. Posts breaking the rules, that everyone agrees to when they join, are deleted on a regular basis. That doesn't stop you from discussing (in a civil manner) any topic that you want, bar one.

All media, and life in general, is censored everywhere every day.