Uk Pensions-increases.

[monsieurhappy]

I was just thinking about the problem we Brits have when we retire to LOS of no GOV. pension increases in line with inflation etc. Do expat pensioners from other EU countries have the same problem? I have never read of anyone from France, Germany, Italy etc. ranting on these forums about this and wondered if it only applies to Brits. then why aren't we tackling this through the European courts, when everything else that affects our everyday life goes this way?

[Thetyim]

The australian government took the british gov to court.

Not sure what happened but we still don't get the increases.

Ask RDN, he "likes" this subject

[jingjingna]

monsieurhappy, let's set the ball rolling shall we?

I'd be interested to hear from RDN ...where are you?

[Thetyim]

It's Monday.

He'll be at the Post Office queuing for his pension.

[mrbojangles]

It's Monday.

He'll be at the Post Office queuing for his pension.   

Nope, saw him on the topic for a tune for thaivisa. He was writing lyrics at the time. Musn't be that bothered about issues to do with pensions

[Thetyim]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...5877&hl=pension

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...8611&hl=pension

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...2096&hl=pension

[RDN]

The australian government took the british gov to court.

Not sure what happened but we still don't get the increases.

Ask RDN, he "likes" this subject

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't bl00dy get me going!!

It's Monday.

He'll be at the Post Office queuing for his pension.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've still got a few years to go, thanks, but it is certainly a subject close to my heart, er..., wallet.

As far as I know, only the lazy bastards who call themselves the British Government give some of their expatriate countrymen reduced pensions because of where they live. No other European country does it. There is no logic to which countries the ex-pats get the full pension and which countries they don't. It has always been that way and no British Government can be bothered to set this injustice to rights.

SEE! I said don't get me going!

If you want to learn more, join BEP, a Yahoo Group for British Expatriate Pensioners. They are trying to get the situation changed, but not much has happened in the 3 years that I've been a member. You could also try Googling for Annette Carson who sought to have her pension indexed in line with annual pension increases provided to retired people living in the UK. The view of one of the Lords was that although her sense of grievance was understandable, it was not justified.

Now I must go and have a lie-down.

[monsieurhappy]

It's amazing that the UK is the only Euro country not to increase pensions in certain countries in line with inflation. I wasn't sure, so asked the question. So now what is really upsetting is the fact that the EU want to force every other stupid law on the UK but something that would benifit so many people is never mentioned. No wonder the other Europeans are keeping stum on this!

[RDN]

I think the figure accepted to fix this is about £400 million per year. This is peanuts when you look at the amounts admittedly wasted by bureaucratic cock-ups and fraud. There was someone in Australia - might be dead now - living on a pension of £10 per week because that's what he got when he first emigrated there.

[monsieurhappy]

Hasn't anything been done in the European court to change this situation?

[RDN]

Hasn't anything been done in the European court to change this situation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is the next tactic of the campaigners - from a "human rights" perspective. Best to join BEP and get all the current info.

//Edit:

From the BEP group:

Monday's Agenda in the Institutions

Westminster

Lords Chamber

Debate on the motion “that this House regrets that the Government have not considered uprating the state pension rights of all UK citizens living abroad in the Social Security Benefits Up-rating Regulations 2005, laid before the House on March 18 (S.I. 2005/632)” (Baroness Greengross, CB).

This debate ... will be/was in ... the UK "House of Lords" today I believe.

BEP is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bep/

Edited July 18, 2005 by RDN

[mrbojangles]

I think the figure accepted to fix this is about £400 million per year. This is peanuts when you look at the amounts admittedly wasted by bureaucratic cock-ups and fraud.

Ditto that RDN

It's also peanuts when you consider how much we are contributing in writing off third world debt. When are we going to start taking care of our own people first. I bet Bob &lt;deleted&gt; Geldoff won't do anything to support this campaign will he

[RDN]

I think the figure accepted to fix this is about £400 million per year. This is peanuts when you look at the amounts admittedly wasted by bureaucratic cock-ups and fraud.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto that RDN

It's also peanuts when you consider how much we are contributing in writing off third world debt. When are we going to start taking care of our own people first. I bet Bob &lt;deleted&gt; Geldoff won't do anything to support this campaign will he

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SIR Bob, please! (Sir Bob &lt;deleted&gt; Geldoff)

[welderman]

I know this is slightly off the subject of (old age pensions) but is there anyone that can give me advice on Army Pensions being paid whilst living in LOS

i.e any problems i should be aware of

[mrbojangles]

I think the figure accepted to fix this is about £400 million per year. This is peanuts when you look at the amounts admittedly wasted by bureaucratic cock-ups and fraud.

Ditto that RDN

It's also peanuts when you consider how much we are contributing in writing off third world debt. When are we going to start taking care of our own people first. I bet Bob &lt;deleted&gt; Geldoff won't do anything to support this campaign will he

SIR Bob, please! (Sir Bob &lt;deleted&gt; Geldoff)

I stand corrected Sir RBN

[RDN]

I know this is slightly off the subject of (old age pensions) but is there anyone that can give me advice on Army Pensions being paid whilst living in LOS

i.e any problems i should be aware of

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could also join BEP and ask there. There are a lot of ex-army types in that group. I'm sure you could get an answer .

[welderman]

I know this is slightly off the subject of (old age pensions) but is there anyone that can give me advice on Army Pensions being paid whilst living in LOS

i.e any problems i should be aware of

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could also join BEP and ask there. There are a lot of ex-army types in that group. I'm sure you could get an answer .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, i'll give them a try

[Mr Helper]

For UK Citizens...............Why tell the 'DHSS' you are living in Thailand in the first place??? Just have your weekly pension paid into a bank account in the UK, and withdraw it once per week from an ATM in Thailand!!! The DHSS will be 'non-the-wiser'. And they would never find out, and that way you will get your pension increase just like everybody else in the UK. And if for some strange reason they ever did find out, and believe me they wouldn't unless somebody 'grassed', you could just act ignorant to it; "well I didn't know you couldn't do that Mr DHSS sir".

Edited July 19, 2005 by Mr Helper

[Thetyim]

Because your name is not on the electoral role for one thing.

If you did have it added to a friends house how much would that cost ?

[Boon Mee]

Let's hope 'Uncle Sam' doesn't get wind of what the EU is doing in this regard...

[billd766]

I know this is slightly off the subject of (old age pensions) but is there anyone that can give me advice on Army Pensions being paid whilst living in LOS

i.e any problems i should be aware of

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have an RAF pension which is paid into my UK (offshore) bank and then I can transfer it to my Thai bank account. As far as I can remember the Paymaster general will only pay to a UK source though I think that they will pay by cheque which you could pay into a Thai bank.

If you write to them they will give you chapter and verse.

If you want to PM me I will try to give you more info.

billd766

[Mr Helper]

It doesnt cost a penny to have your name added to the electoral roll at a friends house, also not ALL pensioners are on the electoral roll! It's not a legal requirement to be on the electoral roll in the UK.

[RDN]

Just to make all you expatriates on a reduced UK "old-age" pension feel even better...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...9/nasylum19.xml

In case the link above doesn't work (because I'm registered with the Telegraph so it always works for me) I've copied a bit of the story here:

Asylum rejects cost taxpayer £300m

By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor

(Filed: 19/07/2005)

The taxpayer picked up a bill of more than £300 million last year to support failed asylum seekers who should have been removed from the country, spending watchdogs report today.

   

The National Audit Office says most of this sum was spent looking after an estimated 18,500 families with dependent children who are entitled to continuing support until they leave the country.

A further £285 million was spent to support the voluntary repatriation of some failed asylum seekers or to enforce the deportation of others.

300million + 285million = 585 million. Cost to give all expatriates a full pension: 400million.

So failed asylum seekers, who have not paid a penny in taxes or National Insurance to our home country, use up more cash than it would cost to give all expatriates - who have paid into the system all their working lives - a full pension.

UK government, please justify!

[monsieurhappy]

For UK Citizens...............Why tell the 'DHSS' you are living in Thailand in the first place??? Just have your weekly pension paid into a bank account in the UK, and withdraw it once per week from an ATM in Thailand!!! The DHSS will be 'non-the-wiser'. And they would never find out, and that way you will get your pension increase just like everybody else in the UK. And if for some strange reason they ever did find out, and believe me they wouldn't unless somebody 'grassed', you could just act ignorant to it; "well I didn't know you couldn't do that Mr DHSS sir". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right and it works for a lot of people, but I'm worried as to what will happen in future when all our details are on the back of one of those new smart ID cards they're going to introduce. How much information can they glean? What happens if you have to renew your passport at the UK embassy for instance, surely this info is recorded somewhere? I've never had much faith in the European Union, but after all we've paid in I think we should get something backand that means parity with the rest of the EU.

[Thetyim]

A safer solution would be to get a mail drop in the Philipines, where you would get the increases, and have the money paid into your Uk bank.

Mr Happy. At the moment we do not get increases, we do not get any winter fuel allowances, we are not a drain on the NHS but we have paid in the same money. A bum deal, IMHO.

[Wanraya]

A Phillipines address and a uk bank account will ensure that you receive the updates no further checks will be made.

One point that hasn't been made so far is to record a UK address as your residence from age 60-64. All males resident in the UK for at least 183 days automatically recieve full National Insurance credits for the whole of the contribution years which include their 60th - 64 th birthdays. These are automatically calculated and awarded by computer so long as you are recorded as resident in the UK. These extra 5 years of NI contributions will boost your pension entitlement by around 12%.

[Mr Helper]

Wanraya................That point was made, registering yourself at a friends address. And if you gave the DHSS an overseas address, you would NOT recieve the increases. Just stick to giving them a British address. They never come and check the address anyway!.

monsieurhappy...........those ID cards wont be able to stop you doing what I said, and if you need to re-new your pasport, just go back to the UK to get it renewed.

[Thetyim]

And if you gave the DHSS an overseas address, you would NOT recieve the increases.

That is why I mentioned Phillipines.

I have been led to believe that you do get the increases there

[Rinrada]

Yes you do...they gotta deal

[RDN]

This just in from the BEP group:

Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:08 AM

Hansard on the 19th!! Written answers.

Pensions: Reciprocal Uprating Agreements

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay asked Her Majesty's Government:

With which countries the United Kingdom has a reciprocal agreement to uprate pension payments; and [HL1148]

19 Jul 2005 : Column WA232

With which countries over the past 20 years the United Kingdom has (a) made, and (b ) ended reciprocal agreements to uprate pension payments; and [HL1149]

What are the total amounts of United Kingdom pensions and the number of recipients currently being paid to residents of countries with which the United Kingdom (a) does, and (b ) does not have reciprocal agreements to uprate pension payments; and [HL1150]

What are the estimated costs of exporting frozen United Kingdom pensions paid to residents of countries which do not have reciprocal agreements with the United Kingdom to uprate pension payments; and [HL1151]

What are the current annual total amounts of United Kingdom pensions being paid, and the number of recipients in (a) British Dependent Territories; (b ) Australia; and © South Africa. [HL1152]

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: The UK currently has reciprocal agreements which provide for the uprating of state pension with the following countries: Barbados; Bermuda; Bosnia-Herzegovina; Croatia; Isle of Man; Israel; Jamaica; Jersey and Guernsey; Mauritius; Philippines; State Union of Serbia and Montenegro; Turkey; USA and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Although they have generally been superseded by EC Social Security Regulations which provide for uprating of state pensions for European Economic Area (EEA) and Swiss nationals moving between the UK and other member countries, the UK also has reciprocal agreements which provide for uprating of state pensions with the following countries: Austria; Belgium; Cyprus; Finland; France; Germany; Gibraltar; Iceland; Ireland; Italy; Luxembourg; Malta; the Netherlands; Norway; Portugal; Slovenia; Spain; Sweden and Switzerland.

Over the past 20 years the UK has entered into reciprocal agreements providing for the uprating of state pensions with the following countries: Barbados (1992); Iceland (1985); Norway (1991); Philippines (1989) and Sweden (1988). The agreements with Iceland, Norway and Sweden have since been superseded by the EC Social Security Regulations. No agreements providing for the uprating of state pensions have been terminated.

At 31 September 2004 around 990,000 state pension recipients were living overseas of whom around 470,000 were residing in the EEA or in a country with which UK has a reciprocal agreement covering the uprating of pensions and around 520,000 were residing elsewhere including around 240,000 in Australia and 38,000 in South Africa.

In 2004–05 the UK spent an estimated £1.9 billion on state pensions paid overseas, of this around £1.1 billion went to people residing in the EEA or in a country with which UK has a reciprocal agreement covering the uprating of pensions and around £800 million went to people residing elsewhere including £358 million to people in Australia and

19 Jul 2005 : Column WA233

£66 million to people in South Africa. It is estimated that the cost of "unfreezing" pensions paid to people residing outside the EEA and countries with which the UK has a reciprocal agreement is (without backdating) around £400 million per annum increasing over time.

At 31 September 2004 around 2,000 state pension recipients were residing in the British Overseas Territories which comprise: Anguilla; British Antarctic Territory; Bermuda; British Indian Ocean Territory; British Virgin Islands; Cayman Islands; Falkland Islands; Gibraltar; Montserrat; St Helena and dependencies (Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha); Turk and Caicos Islands; Pitcairn Island; South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands; and the sovereign base areas on Cyprus. State pensions paid to recipients living in Bermuda; Gibraltar and the sovereign base areas on Cyprus are subject to uprating.

In 2004–05 the UK spent an estimated £5.5 million on state pensions paid to people residing in the British Overseas Territories.