Why Thailand Fought On The Japanese Side During Ww Ii

[Fookhaht]

Cover of a Japanese leaflet distributed in SE Asia (including Thailand) during the war.

[Fookhaht]

Inside the brochure: Shows the children of SE Asia welcoming the Japanese.

[Fookhaht]

Same brochures portray the rapacious allies (Churchill and Roosevelt) having designs for colonizing all of Asia. Edited September 14, 2010 by Fookhaht

[moe666]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

I can't find any information about that. Where did you get the information? All I get is Asians dead. Nothing about Thais? Maybe I have not looked in the right place.

I remember reading it a few years ago but sorry donot remember the source, I will do a bit of looking around. A friend (book dealer ) gave me a Thai history book a few years ago I read and put it a way.

[Fookhaht]

Next page shows worried allies over Japanese plans to "free" Asia of western dominance.

[Fookhaht]

Portrays compliant Thai teacher, teaching his Thai students Japanese.

[Fookhaht]

The multilingual message reads; "Living together in unity for a prosperous life."

A partial translation of the Japanese at the bottom:

"The languages and religions are different. However, with our correct hearts, let's become friendly like brothers. Let's be this way through fun and pain.

"America, Holland, England, and others fear that Greater East Asia will prosper, and we will not forget that together they made us compete. We will become friendly, and if we help each other out, we will definitely attain happiness."

Edited September 14, 2010 by Fookhaht

[wintermute]

You're missing one point..the supreme moral authority in Thailand which is the royal family and its Queen and princes (the current king was studying in switzerland and the elder prince was in England) were not present at the time and actively supported resistance against Japanese occupation.

No I am not. You are missing the point of the 1932 coup. The supreme moral authority was drastically changed when Thailand became a constitutional monarchy as a result of that coup. Thailand was not the same kind of place then as now. I don't think I should dwell on it but a study of the history of that period would not find the same elements of moral authority as exist today. What you are talking about happened in the UK and the UK was the country that wanted the punitive reparations paid by Thailand. They were not only because of the intercession of the US.

You're more or less proving my point. The monarchy were not on board the whole idea so therefore the Thai people couldn't have been fully compliant. The fact that the monarchy joined the Seri Thai resistance and actively campaigned overseas against the Japanese says a lot. This is a fact that gets annoyingly ignored by people who claim that Thais were so willing to jump on board with the Axis. They literally had no choice in the matter since the general in charge pulled all the strings Quisling-style and forced Thais into a difficult decision.

Frankly, I don't give a dam_n what the UK wanted, simply put the only powers that mattered after that period were the U.S. and Russia. There was a brief period post-WW2 where the UK was seriously considering trying to keep its colonies ala. France which would have ignited the region in war again. I think the attempt to push Thai into reparations was a larger plan to bring back colonialism but thankfully cooler heads prevailed.

[wintermute]

Next page shows worried allies over Japanese plans to "free" Asia of western dominance.

The "co-prosperity" nonsense was used to get the citizens of the countries they conquered to lay down their arms. Then the Japanese would set up puppet regimes and strong-arm everyone into compliance. In Singapore, China, and even Malaysia it was even worse they would go from village to village and execute people. Singapore's future PM Lee Kuan Yew was almost executed by the Japanese back in the 40's.

[Fookhaht]

WAR OF WORDS

The Americans dropped leaflets on the Japanese and their allies wherever they were.

In 1945, the U.S. Office of War Information (OWI) prepared a leaflet newspaper entitled "Liberation"

and dropped it over Bangkok and other major cities.

The front of the newspaper depicts two B-29 Superfortress bombers.

The caption next to the photograph is:

"These B-29 bombers are the largest warplanes in the world. They are 141 feet in size."

The inside of the leaflet contained this message:

"Giant B-29 bombers attack from Bangkok to Tokyo. America's giant new air weapons, the B-29 bombers, are heavily attacking Japanese military places throughout Asia. Because the Japanese use Thailand as a military base, the B-29s have bombed Japanese targets in Bangkok. They have also caused great damage to Singapore, Rangoon and Penang.

"No target is too distant for these bombers. Japan itself has been attacked time after time. Great damage has been visited on the capitol city of Tokyo. The B-29s have also dropped many bombs on the Japanese cities of Nagoya, Sasebo, Ywata, Omura and Nagasaki. The dockyards, naval bases, aircraft factories, steel mills and other war installations were damaged at these places.

"The bombings will be greatly intensified as production of the B-29s is being increased day by day."

Personal comment: The Thais were certainly between the proverbial "devil" and "the deep blue sea."

Edited September 14, 2010 by Fookhaht

[thequick7]

Japan only had one voluntary ally during the war, Thailand.

So you would have stood your ground and had your people slaughtered ?

Many other countries did, for what they believed in.

[thequick7]

Jesus H Christ.................. Why don't we all do a google search and pat each other on the back !!!!!!!!!!

The fact is that NOW Thailand is kicking UK's ass in economic terms, and they never sent one freekin' soldier overseas !!!!!!!

You know that the Asian countries are actually laughing at the amount of money we Western Superpowers spend ( Waste ), it's something of a joke. I mean really, what is the point ?

The Chinese will only ever allow the west to take what they want them to take, no more.

In a conventional war, the Chinese can lose 100,000 men per week and not bat an eyelid, the American public would demand the end of a war if the US lost 100 men per week.

dam_n, ive already used up my 2 negative votes for the day...!!!

[IanForbes]

That is what I like about thaivisa... there are always a few discussions where you learn something new. I'm a bit of a history buff, and this topic has been a good one. Who knows how anyone might react in a time of stress. If someone does NOT have the strength or power to resist a superior force then other measures have to be taken. You are forced to make decisions you would rather not make... just to survive.

[sillyman99]

dam_n, ive already used up my 2 negative votes for the day...!!!

I never ignore anyone who is slaughtering me.

[Rinrada]

The Free Thai

by Les Hughes (with thanks)

Might have kept quiet but many Thais fought bravely against the Japs...and should be remembered....loads of great reading and insights.....

(Betty as well)

After Thailand fell to the Japanese, Thailand's leader, Field Marshall Phibun Songkhram, entered into an alliance with Japan that led to a declaration of war against the United States and Great Britain.

This placed in something of a predicament the approximately 80 Thai students who were studying in the U.S. at the time.

The feeling among the Thai students was that Japan was the aggressor and that ultimately the Allies would prevail. This sentiment was shared by the Thai minister in Washington, D.C., who ignored the instructions of the Thai government and proceeded to establish a Free Thai organization headquartered in his legation....

http://www.insigne.org/OSS-Thai.htm

List of some famous Free Thai members

Queen Ramphaiphanni, widow of King Prajadhipok and nominal head of the Seri Thai in the United Kingdom

Khuang Abhaiwongse, head of the Thai Democrat Party, Prime Minister of Thailand 1944-45, 1946, 1948

Police General Adul Aduldejajaras, one time Deputy Minister of the Interior

Luang Bannakornkowit, Cabinet Member

Tawee Boonyaket, Prime Minister of Thailand 1945

Ananda Chintakanond, renowned career diplomat who later worked for ECAFE

Luang Dithakarnpakdi, renowned career diplomat

Direk Jayanama, one time Minister of Finance and Foreign Affairs

Air Marshal Thawee Junlasap

Kusa Panyarachun, Thai travel/tourism industry pioneer

Seni Pramoj, Prime Minister of Thailand 1945-46, 1975, 1976

Pridi Phanomyong, Prime Minister of Thailand 1946

Siddhi Savetsila, later Air Chief Marshal of the Royal Thai Air Force and a Foreign Minister of Thailand

Captain Luang Suphachalasai, one time Minister of the Interior

Rear Admiral Sangvara Suwannacheep, one time Deputy Minister of Defence

Lieutenant-General Chit Munsilpa Sinadyodharaksa, one time Minister of Defence

Tiang Sirikhanth, Assemblyman

Sanguan Tularaksa, Cabinet Member

Dr. Puey Ungpakorn, London-educated economist who headed the Bank of Thailand and later served as rector of Thammasat University

[sillyman99]

Wikipedia is a wonderful thing.

[maccaroni man]

when ever this subject comes up with the thais i know, they all 100% say that thailand fought against the Japanese and these are university grads.

[GuestHouse]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

You think they were gonna fight the Japanese, how could they ?

What would you have done to ensure hundreds of thousands of your people were not slaughtered, and your cities bombed ?

Cos we all know how benevolent the Japanese were against any occupied natives.

No doubt Guesthouse could have turned the war around if only he had been there.

Large numbers of Thais were slaughtered, both by the Japanese and in the subsequent attacks by the Allies - Bangkok was bombed by the Americans.

And that's putting aside the Thai women taken as slaves (forgive me 'Comfort Women') by the Japanese Imperial Army .... or since Thailand was allied with the Japanese, perhaps they were no so much slaves as patriotic war workers.

But let's get something straight Sillyman, the part Thailand played in supporting the Japanese during WWII is not disclosed in Thailand, not taught in Thai schools .... swept under the carpet. If it were not, Thai people and presumably yourself, might be able to face the reality of Thailand's power play in WWII.

Like the Indians and Burmese who fought for the Japanese - The Thais believed they were on the winning side.

[GuestHouse]

Jesus H Christ.................. Why don't we all do a google search and pat each other on the back !!!!!!!!!!

The fact is that NOW Thailand is kicking UK's ass in economic terms, and they never sent one freekin' soldier overseas !!!!!!!

You know that the Asian countries are actually laughing at the amount of money we Western Superpowers spend ( Waste ), it's something of a joke. I mean really, what is the point ?

The Chinese will only ever allow the west to take what they want them to take, no more.

In a conventional war, the Chinese can lose 100,000 men per week and not bat an eyelid, the American public would demand the end of a war if the US lost 100 men per week.

Thailand's GDP is $ 272.43 Billion The UK GDP is $ 2.67 Trillion

If you think the ability of a government to ignore it's population and p1ss a 100,000 men's live's a week down the drain is a good thing - How about going to live there.... and taking your sons with you?!

[David006]

That is what I like about thaivisa... there are always a few discussions where you learn something new. I'm a bit of a history buff, and this topic has been a good one. Who knows how anyone might react in a time of stress. If someone does NOT have the strength or power to resist a superior force then other measures have to be taken. You are forced to make decisions you would rather not make... just to survive.

Also a history bufff....apart from what Thailand did or did not do in WW2...

an interesting read is Eagle Against the Sun..(US Japanese Pacific war account) ...really scary how naive and egotistical the western powers were...

[bonobo]

The fact is that NOW Thailand is kicking UK's ass in economic terms, and they never sent one freekin' soldier overseas !!!!!!!

You might want to get your facts straight before issuing such a blanket statement. While not WWII, go to see the monument at Sanam Luang Park dedicated to the Thai expedition to fight with the British and French against the Central Powers.

[mark45y]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

You think they were gonna fight the Japanese, how could they ?

What would you have done to ensure hundreds of thousands of your people were not slaughtered, and your cities bombed ?

Cos we all know how benevolent the Japanese were against any occupied natives.

No doubt Guesthouse could have turned the war around if only he had been there.

Large numbers of Thais were slaughtered, both by the Japanese and in the subsequent attacks by the Allies - Bangkok was bombed by the Americans.

And that's putting aside the Thai women taken as slaves (forgive me 'Comfort Women') by the Japanese Imperial Army .... or since Thailand was allied with the Japanese, perhaps they were no so much slaves as patriotic war workers.

But let's get something straight Sillyman, the part Thailand played in supporting the Japanese during WWII is not disclosed in Thailand, not taught in Thai schools .... swept under the carpet. If it were not, Thai people and presumably yourself, might be able to face the reality of Thailand's power play in WWII.

Like the Indians and Burmese who fought for the Japanese - The Thais believed they were on the winning side.

Large numbers of Thais were slaughtered by the Japanese and by American bombings of Bangkok.

If that is the case then why hasn’t someone changed the causality numbers on Wiki?

I have seen documentation about Chinese comfort women and Korean comfort women and even Japanese comfort women. I have never seen any documentation of Thai comfort women used by the Japanese.

I have read stories of Thai women feeding the Japanese troops as they retreated from Burma in disarray but nothing on forced prostitution of Thai women by the Japanese.

Perhaps you could direct me to a source that mentions Thai women as opposed to Asian women.

I have seen references to Thai engineers being hired to survey for the Japanese railroad and Thai workers hired to build the railroad but I have never seen any statistics that list Thai deaths in railroad building during WW II.

[licentiapoetica]

Large numbers of Thais were slaughtered by the Japanese and by American bombings of Bangkok.  

If that is the case then why hasn't someone changed the causality numbers on Wiki?  

I have seen documentation about Chinese comfort women and Korean comfort women and even Japanese comfort women.  I have never seen any documentation of Thai comfort women used by the Japanese.  

I have read stories of Thai women feeding the Japanese troops as they retreated from Burma in disarray but nothing on forced prostitution of Thai women by the Japanese.  

Perhaps you could direct me to a source that mentions Thai women as opposed to Asian women.  

I have seen references to Thai engineers being hired to survey for the Japanese railroad and Thai workers hired to build the railroad but I have never seen any statistics that list Thai deaths in railroad building during WW II.

Sometimes there are no official statistics because those who are in power don't want any statistics gathered and published. That doesn't mean that many Thais were not killed in Allied bombing raids. We just don't know the numbers today. Same with the comfort women/slaves. No stats, but it still happened.

[JusMe]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

You think they were gonna fight the Japanese, how could they ?

What would you have done to ensure hundreds of thousands of your people were not slaughtered, and your cities bombed ?

Cos we all know how benevolent the Japanese were against any occupied natives.

No doubt Guesthouse could have turned the war around if only he had been there.

Yes, they had options. One, of course, was to fight against the Japanese landings, disobey their own prime minister, and have large numbers slaughtered.

Another option would have been simply to acquiesce, recognizing they could do little other than submitting.

The third option, which Thailand chose, was to join the Japanese, become their allies and benefiting (short time anyway) by "winning" the war and regaining provinces from Malaya and Burma.

For original documents, see http://www.sendspace.com/file/h0ywut

[JusMe]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

This is true, in fact, probably more Thais died than Allied POW's, yet they are never mentioned.

You know how many Indian Soldiers died during world war 1, fighting for the British Empire, their occupying force ?

Very few Thais died during WWII. Some of those were military, mainly fighting the Chinese in the newly acquired province in Burma. Others were a limited number killed in the bombing, mainly of Bangkok ports.

And the Thais did not provide comfort women for the Japanese. Those were taken mainly from South Korea and the Philippines.

There was quite a lot of support from the Thai population for the Japanese and for the Thai involvement in it. See some of the newspapers at the time (other sources possible, but the Rare Book Room at Thammasat University is where I've read some)

Edit: and Chinese comfort women. There were few, if any, Japanese comfort women, those Japanese joining the troops mainly professionals. They sometimes managed the brothels for the Japanese forces.

Edited September 15, 2010 by JusMe

[wintermute]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

You think they were gonna fight the Japanese, how could they ?

What would you have done to ensure hundreds of thousands of your people were not slaughtered, and your cities bombed ?

Cos we all know how benevolent the Japanese were against any occupied natives.

No doubt Guesthouse could have turned the war around if only he had been there.

Yes, they had options. One, of course, was to fight against the Japanese landings, disobey their own prime minister, and have large numbers slaughtered.

Another option would have been simply to acquiesce, recognizing they could do little other than submitting.

The third option, which Thailand chose, was to join the Japanese, become their allies and benefiting (short time anyway) by "winning" the war and regaining provinces from Malaya and Burma.

For original documents, see http://www.sendspace.com/file/h0ywut

The first two choices would have been silly. If you're a small country that shares land borders with others your choices are very limited if a bigger more aggressive country with a far superior military masses against you. People accusing the Thai government of being cowards for joining Japan literally always ignore the fact that there was no sensible alternative. Even most small mainland european countries (Netherlands, Norway, France, etc..) were forced to join the Nazi regime because of the imminent danger of annihilation if they fought back. This is not much different from the choice Thailand had to make. They also saw Japan literally kick the crap out of Britain in SE Asia.

Think about this for a moment..Britain during that era was still riding high on its colonial reputation as a strong country with one of the best naval forces in the world. Watching Brits surrender en mass in Singapore and getting their flagship sunk was a HUGE victory for Japan and totally broke the morale of SE Asian countries.

Edited September 15, 2010 by wintermute

[JusMe]

http://www.thereform...orld-war-2.html

Like I said, All the figures I can find mention 4 to 5 thousand Thais killed during WW II that includes soldiers and civilians. Where do you find numbers that are higher?

Your article mentions no actual numbers of causalities. Apparently no one knows.

Also you might want to get confirmation about the Seri Thai activities. I found it hard to match the article you mentioned with what I have read. Not saying it isn't true just not the same as what I have read before.

The Seri Thai was perhaps the best equipped, best communicating, best organized, and least effective of any resistance forces during WWII.

There is some rumour, unproven, that the force was being built up by Phridi Banomyong for use against Phibunsongkram after the war was over, but was not available for use because of the sudden end of the war.

[JusMe]

Er... you do know that Thailand DID fight against JApan in WW2.

Take a trip to Ao Manao, Prachurup kirikan. There is a military museum on the beach there where the story of 100 soldiers holding of the japanese invasion is told. Its actually a quaint little place and on seeing the kids we took there learn a little about ww2 I confirm they knew next to EFF all before going. But if you look into this story and check the dates I think you might find it interesting.

battle of prachurb kirikan info: click here

Yes, fascinating little museum. I visited a few years ago and was able to enlighten the "guide" there about her own museum.

The Japanese landed in the town of Prachuap Khiri Khan with no difficulty, but were seen landing on the beach around the high peninsula and in front of the air force training base.

As the few airmen there with a few policemen began resisting, the two small trainers, armed only with light weapons, were shot down. Slowly, as the Japanese force landed, the Thai force withdrew onto the higher ground of the peninsula.

During the morning, the postmaster from Prachuap Khiri Khan arrived with a telegram from Bangkok, telling the forces to stop fighting and admit the Japanese. The leader of the resistance, thinking the telegram was a Japanese forgery, ripped it up and insisted on continuing the fight. It was several hours later before he could be convinced that the telegram was legitimate.

There were 32 (as I remember) Thais killed during this action, including one young boy who was carrying messages and ammunition for the Thai forces. He was posthumously awarded an airforce rank.

There is no definite information regarding the number of Japanese who died during this action, but it seems several hundred is reasonable. Many of them died in the heavy surf, landing with full battle packs. And there had been no "softening" of the landing area, as the Japanese thought they would be welcomed (as they were in the other landing areas - well, most of them - some fighting in Chumphon, as well) and had no heavy weapons with them.

[JusMe]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

Yes, they had options. One, of course, was to fight against the Japanese landings, disobey their own prime minister, and have large numbers slaughtered.

Another option would have been simply to acquiesce, recognizing they could do little other than submitting.

The third option, which Thailand chose, was to join the Japanese, become their allies and benefiting (short time anyway) by "winning" the war and regaining provinces from Malaya and Burma.

For original documents, see http://www.sendspace.com/file/h0ywut

The first two choices would have been silly. If you're a small country that shares land borders with others your choices are very limited if a bigger more aggressive country with a far superior military masses against you. People accusing the Thai government of being cowards for joining Japan literally always ignore the fact that there was no sensible alternative. Even most small mainland european countries (Netherlands, Norway, France, etc..) were forced to join the Nazi regime because of the imminent danger of annihilation if they fought back. This is not much different from the choice Thailand had to make. They also saw Japan literally kick the crap out of Britain in SE Asia.

Think about this for a moment..Britain during that era was still riding high on its colonial reputation as a strong country with one of the best naval forces in the world. Watching Brits surrender en mass in Singapore and getting their flagship sunk was a HUGE victory for Japan and totally broke the morale of SE Asian countries.

The choice of the Netherlands, Norway, and the non-Petain part of France was NOT to join the Nazi regime. Thailand actively joined and declared war against the Allies, something the Netherlands and Norway did NOT do.

And yes, they saw how Japan was beating the British. Good idea to join the stronger force, the winners, and benefit from that. Even the Japanese were surprised when Thailand actually went so far as to declare war. They had expected cooperation, but got much more!

[wintermute]

The choice of the Netherlands, Norway, and the non-Petain part of France was NOT to join the Nazi regime. Thailand actively joined and declared war against the Allies, something the Netherlands and Norway did NOT do.

What nonsense. A large part of the government in those nations were indeed fully compliant with the nazi regime as well because they were taken over. You're playing semantics here. The nazis even recruited soldiers from the population of those countries. So in effect they did join the nazis.

You're also using double standards here. Those European countries clearly had axis sympathetic governments pulling the strings yet the majority of the people did not like the Nazis. Thailand was literally in the same situation, they were confronted with a far superior military force and were also being led by a military dictator.

Thailand was also taken over by a axis sympathetic regime but that does not mean the Thai majority were sympathetic to the Japanese cause or wanted any part of it. The fact that the royals were totally against Japan was sign enough that much of Thailand did not agree.

And yes, they saw how Japan was beating the British. Good idea to join the stronger force, the winners, and benefit from that. Even the Japanese were surprised when Thailand actually went so far as to declare war. They had expected cooperation, but got much more!

Wrong on all counts. The government in exile declared the alliance invalid because Thailand was taken over by a military dictator at the time. Once again, i'll point towards the royal family..they did not support the Japanese occupation and they were and still are considered the social moral compass of the Thai people.

Edited September 15, 2010 by wintermute