Thai Monestary May Have Misused Bt100m In Donations

[Thaddeus]

Thailand is still mostly a tolerant and family based society. It is the Buddhism that I think keeps everything together.

No it isn't.... it's the meal-times.

[bagheera]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

It's not about not owning a cell phone etc....it's about not being attached, there is a difference. You say from your " observations...........still make money to pay bills and support themselves and family ." So how many monks do you know ? What did these "observations" entail exactly ? The way you write "not all monks" infers the majority of monks and I suspect that your knowledge of Buddhist monks in Thailand and possibly Thai culture in general to be minimal and your opinions unqualified.

My observations, A married man who takes out a loan from the bank, builds a new home, then becomes a monk to beg and pay for said house, another man, supposed Mafia, now a monk smokes drinks, get's his money from the locales and continues to live a normal life with all attachments only difference is now lives at temple and dresses in orange....Monks driving Tuktuks, Monks smoking, Monks drinking these are observations over a few years...you sound bitter or have you been anointed as the defender of Thailand's religious customs and cultures....what you do live at a temple for 3 months, get off of your high horse your not the only one who has experiences in Thailand.

Just to put you straight, monks don't beg, they collect alms and there is a huge difference between the two.The fact that you don't seem to be aware of this only enforces my suspicion that your knowledge of Buddhist monks in Thailand and Thai culture is not what it should be after your "observations over a few years" The rest sounds like expat bar tales of which I'm sure you have many

[mrdome]

A bit off topic, this reminded me of that monk who had a massive collection of "Benz's".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/923367.stm

He disappeared under the radar, wonder what the result of the "censur" was? As some guy wrote "if you can't sweep it under the rug, then it gets treated as furniture".

I remember reading an article about this 7 - 8 years ago. It was presented as an enterprise to teach the novices the marketable skill of becoming car mechanics. I looked at those pictures of some of these classic cars and wanted to pay a visit, although I never did.

The teachings of the Buddha are perfect, what other people do with it may be a different matter. Thailand has certainly benefited from being a Buddhist country, even if not many Thais take the teachings seriously (my observation from 4 continuous years spent in Thailand). Of course, the same thing can be said about myself sometimes as well.

[robertson468]

Speaking at the Suan Santitham monastery in Chon Buri, lawyer Thanadej Phuangphool

The dubious monk's lawyer has another dubious client:

Quote:

"....Thanadej Phuangphool (Thakin's lawyer) said Thaksin was not a leader of the red-shirt protests - he simply made phone calls to offer moral support to the protesters and their leaders, with no intention of inciting unrest. ....."

The man is delusional, again - seems to believe that everybody is stupid and cannot see him for exactly what he is, a liar, a charlatan, a person with no values or morals or respect for others.. Seems to think he can just re-write history, after the event, to a different version which are expedient for his current purposes, or which 'sound better'.

...purely coincidence and also part of a conspiracy against the good monk... comes "honest mistakes" to mind... lovely, so lovely, some of the people, if not all in this country are taken for a ride, an awesome wild one, a giant roller coaster one....ah' well, then there is the unwritten law of karma, which doesn't need lawyers, judges, prisons or courts... it will get everyone without mercy... that's why no one, no honest soul ever has to worry, it will come on silent but swift wings and hit hard, no escape, no excuse!

Way, way too many saffron robe wearers are involved in dubious businesses, gambling, lottery, money lending, land lease.... way too much!

I see all these marble floors, all the gold trimmed roof's and gables, all this Schmuck and Glitz at the feet of the Buddha, I feel sick!

Sorry to hear about your "sickness", however, have you recently looked into the so called Christian Churches, particularly the ones further up the status scale such as Westminster Abbey, York Minster and the like and seen all the "schmuck and Glitz" in them? No doubt the Roman Catholic Church has also given you the "Delhi Belly" with their interesting paedophile cases. "He who casts the first stone............".

[tomyummer]

Thailand is still mostly a tolerant and family based society. It is the Buddhism that I think keeps everything together.

No it isn't.... it's the meal-times.

You're right. That too.

[slapout]

I do not think this is a contest as to which religious group has the most fancy house of worship, most land, etc. To mention what others have or what they have done is beside the point. This same logic seems to be used to justify wrongs done by irresponsible people in all walks of life. (When they get caught or accused of malfeasance) Some concerned people are asking for an accounting, not the first time here in Thailand and elsewhere.

Some of the charges leveled at various religious group/s in the past could make this seem like a minor charge.

[ChiangMaiFun]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

It is also a FACT that Buddha renounced his wife and family - so not sure what your point is?

[hammered]

Most people in Chonburi think this is true and arent surprised. There are a lot more details in Thai media. It reads like a right joke.

[ChiangMaiFun]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Doesn't becoming a monk mean you are dedicating your life to the discovery of the true path of enlightenment, hmmmm, hard to do when you have responsibilities of a family, from my observations many become monks because it is an excuse to continue laziness with a viable religious excuse, but still make money to pay for bills and support themselves and family, nothing different from other religions, same old same old no personal responsibility, use the crutch of religion to make life easier. Of course this is not all monks, but why don't we have a special Buddha holiday for the monks, we will call it no cell phone, no atm, no smoking day

I agree 100%

I know a guy who has three kids with three different wives; he hardly ever worked in his life. He borrowed 60.000 Baht from a working girl in the family to bail him out of jail. Of course, he never paid his depth. He stole and sold the motorbike of a family member to buy a gun. Then he decided to become a callboy in Pattaya. After he discovered that no one pays attention to the wrinkled butt of a 34-year-old callboy he became -guess what- a monk! Now people bow down in respect for him and offer him seats in the MRT. A cheat is a cheat no matter which color of his robe!

Totally agree - not everyone who dons the orange robe is a monk!

[TAWP]

Let's hope these instances don't throw the religion here in Thailand way off course.

Just a note: Buddhism here is already off course, as it is some form of Disney version of the religion, not pure Buddhism in any form or shape.

[pepi2005]

Buddhism in Thailand is largely a joke.

That doesn't mean that any of the other religions are any better.

[zthyadat]

Since when did Monks have Wives, or is this a case of Some Pigs are more equal than others.I'm Shocked.?.

According my wife, they should have specified ex-wife as they did in the Thai language media.

[Piengrudee]

Yashodhara, the wife of Buddha himself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yashodhara

[Piengrudee]

And Rāhula is Buddha's son. In short, Buddha was not a virgin too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahula

[sirchai]

And Rāhula is Buddha's son. In short, Buddha was not a virgin too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahula

How many Buddhist monks are actually virgins? Does it matter? I'd say no.

I've seen monks buying porno Cd's at the Laos border, two days later in the news because they sold copies.

But I also know monks who're really into their religion, they do have fullest respect.

What about Christianity? Full stiop.

Some foul apples everywhere......

[evanson]

Ah, an abiding memory from some years back of some skinny old monk in Suan Luang squatting down trying to rip open a big box of Chang with a cig hanging out of the corner of his mouth Why's it you never have your camera with you at times like these:rolleyes:

Edited September 17, 2010 by evanson

[12DrinkMore]

My observations, A married man who takes out a loan from the bank, builds a new home, then becomes a monk to beg and pay for said house, another man, supposed Mafia, now a monk smokes drinks, get's his money from the locales and continues to live a normal life with all attachments only difference is now lives at temple and dresses in orange....Monks driving Tuktuks, Monks smoking, Monks drinking these are observations over a few years...you sound bitter or have you been anointed as the defender of Thailand's religious customs and cultures....what you do live at a temple for 3 months, get off of your high horse your not the only one who has experiences in Thailand.

Religion is, across the entire globe, just another way of keeping the population under control and extracting money from them. It preys on the fear of death of the "ignorant masses" and is naturally abused by politicians for their own ends as well.

As long as people are afraid of dying and what happens afterwards, there will always be religion. And indeed, it does provide comfort, a reason to live and, mostly, a moral set of ideals for many many millions of people; so it is impossible to disparage it.

It is a great pity that its inherent power is so often abused.

Edited September 17, 2010 by 12DrinkMore

[mkawish]

So a married man cannot turned religious and become a monk? Even Buddha himself was married and have children. THIS IS A FACT.

Pray tell, who was Buddha married to?

He did have numerous concubines

who drove him up the wall with unceasing complaints

which drove him out of the palace into seeking something better in life

which resulted in his self-denial, new discovery and formulation of Buddhist religion.

[mkawish]

Buddha said:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

The following prose, attributed to Buddha, is a poetic expression of the way he saw the world.

Buddha said:

Buddha consider the positions of kings and rulers as that of dust motes.

Buddha observe treasures of gold and gems as so many bricks and pebbles.

Buddha look upon the finest silken robes as tattered rags.

Buddha see myriad worlds of the universe as small seeds of fruit, and the greatest lake in India as a drop of oil upon my foot.

Buddha perceive the teachings of the world as the illusions of magicians.

Buddha discern the highest conception of emancipation as a golden brocade in a dream, and view the holy path of the illuminated ones as flowers appearing in one's eyes.

Buddha see meditation as a pillar of a mountain, nirvana as a nightmare of daytime.

Buddha look upon the judgments of right and wrong as the serpentine dance of a dragon, and the rise and fall of belief as traces left by the four seasons.

There have been so many quotes and posts saying this is what Buddha said....

Are you merely repeating what you heard and/or taught at Watt?

Or are you translating it from some Thai/SanSkit/Bali sources?

Or are you making a summary of what you believe--what Buddha believed and said some distance past?

More importantly, on a more personal level, are you and your loved ones following Buddha's teachings or just a selected few,

and living a life style generous and beneficial to others,

particularly those who are more needy?

<With all due respect, sir/madam>

[astral]

What does it matter if the bankbook is in the hand of a third party?

The bank will not honour his signature...............

unless you are suggesting the bank is corrupt too???????????

Many married people become monks, as do married women.

Being a monk or nun is not necessarily for life.

[wolf5370]

Just a question......

Only speaking about Chiang Mai.....anybody have any idea of the value of the land holdings of the Church of Buddha just within the walls of the city? A person probably could make an estimate of land area and then multiply that by the approx price per dalang wah. Then you could look outside the walls. That's only in Chiang Mai.

For an emerging 3rd world country, this place has a lot of Churches....rich ones, especially if you consider the amount of people living well below what we call the poverty line. I just wonder why we would need so many churches (tiny tiny villages will have 2 or 3), and just what is the purpose of the Churches here in Thailand? Do they actually have a purpose? Just asking because I don't know.

I think that we would be naive to think that the Church of Buddha would be any less corrupt than the Church of Christ or the Church of God, Allah or Muhammed. A Church is a Church is a Church. Period. They get tax breaks, they wield power through fear(be good or go to hel_l, or worse yet, return to this planet), and they were (...some places still are) usually in cahoots with governing bodies. Is it any different here in Thailand than anywhere else on the planet?

I doubt it.

You must remember two things with respect to your post:

1 - The temples are usually bult with money given for that purpose as merit - a way of atoning for sins or striving for better karma. Whatever ones beliefs on this, if someone gives money for a purpose then who has the right to alter that purpose and missuse the gift?

2 - Land on which temples sit are not always owned by the temple. Often they sit on croiwn land, government land or privately owned land (again for merit) - and the temples would have no legal ability to sell it - therefore, it is worth what they can sell it for, nada. Other land has been gifted to thge temples so they do own it, it would have to be deconsicrated for it to be sold on, which I think m ost real monks would not be pleased about,

I do not understand why a business account was not set up for the monastry itself with dual signitories (both signatures required). Setting up accounts left, right and centre in bystanders' names is asking for confusion and mistrakes - let alone graft. Surely the banking system over here can offer some speciualised accounts to the temples - after all there are enough potantial customers

[wandrinstar]

Its Thai nature to deny facts,Ive been here 25 Years, now young educated Thais get into trouble with elders here for Questioning outdated values..Wat's also vary in their tolerance levels.Some are lncensed by Motoring Monks, Money Mad Monks,Mobile Phone Addics,but the Middle Road Monks realise their Organisation is open to the Frailty of Man,and react with calm and good grace,Not in Rev Ian Paisley Style of rhetoric.Some Thais who post here should follow their example.

[Thaddeus]

Thailand is still mostly a tolerant and family based society. It is the Buddhism that I think keeps everything together.

No it isn't.... it's the meal-times.

Hey ….. Your aptness to render such ambivalence and myopic presupposition interpolations is clear evidence you are perfidious purveyors of deceit ,you are perfidious purveyors of deception with your load of pernicious trash the quantum of your comments, with its denigrating imbalance, prejudice, salaciousness, you all make vindictive allegations and ramblings with disturbing alacrity and vexatious intent ,hey you overzealous, pompous, asshol_e that most people wish were killed by a Katoie's handbag Slap.

Cool...... hey everybody, Stephen Fry has joined the forum

[HakimKlunker]

A monk doing his job,

most likely is involved in

....

MONKY BUSINESS

[ChiangMaiFun]

Yashodhara, the wife of Buddha himself http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Yashodhara

Have you ever studied Buddhism? probably like the vast majority of Thai's the answer is NO

Buddha had a family etc. then renounced his family for the reasons we all know - you cannot argue that he had a wife - yes he did and what? he renounced this way of life for a 'higher calling'.

[wandrinstar]

Yashodhara, the wife of Buddha himself http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Yashodhara

Have you ever studied Buddhism? probably like the vast majority of Thai's the answer is NO

Buddha had a family etc. then renounced his family for the reasons we all know - you cannot argue that he had a wife - yes he did and what? he renounced this way of life for a 'higher calling'.

Thats an Ego thing,a Mia Noi, must have a Sami Noi,Thai Males dont like being on the same level,Call the Bugger Sami Noi, he turns Blue.

[harrry]

Monk faces defrocking over allegations

By The Nation

Phra Pramote Pramocho will be defrocked if investigation proves that he has been having intimate relations with his wife who is now a nun, Bangkok monastic chief inspector Phra Rattana Methee said yesterday.

Phra Rattana said if women set up residence in the area secluded for monks, then they were both in automatic violation of the celibacy code and were subject to disciplinary action on three levels - lightest, medium punishment and the ultimate penalty - defrocking.

"We need to launch an immediate investigation before we can tell if there is any violation of the code. Phra Pramote living close to his wife [turned nun] is regarded as 'extremely inappropriate' and I recommend an immediate scrutiny," the chief inspector said.

-- The Nation 2010-09-18

Related topic:

Not the most judicious selection of words is it. Some may like that

[nevermindtwo]

And Oranuch was in charge of petty cash - 100M Baht - some petty cash! And all the duck shoving opening accounts in multiple peoples names et al - unbelievable how this country works. Ever heard of a Pubic Trustee to keep all on the straight and narrow - it won't stop it but sure as hel_l would solve a lot of the corrupt issues.

To Asiawatcher: Sure, all it needs is a PUBIC TRUSTEE. Where can you find somethinmg like this ?

posttenebraslux

[asiawatcher]

Guys no one gives a tuppenny &lt;deleted&gt; about the monk being married - stick with the topic! Money in money out, misappropriation, fraud, embezzlement, and a hundred more.. but don't worry - Oranuch said it will all work out!

[Tanaka]

Just to put you straight, monks don't beg, they collect alms and there is a huge difference between the two.The fact that you don't seem to be aware of this only enforces my suspicion that your knowledge of Buddhist monks in Thailand and Thai culture is not what it should be after your "observations over a few years" The rest sounds like expat bar tales of which I'm sure you have many

Monks don't beg? No, they request, they expect people to give to them. Every day, everywhere. If you want to separate alms from begging, it is up to you but you will find it hard to back up as when you beg, you do it to get alms. It is all the same, you don't have to hold your hand out nor do the monks. But beggars nevertheless. Do they do any work that is of importance to anyone? No. They chose not to be burdened by everyday hardships that most people have to face. They chose to live a parasitizing life on other people's good hearts and faith.