Bangkok May Be Uninhabitable In Seven Years

[RickBradford]

@brahmburgers

To what extent it's exacerbated by human activities is debatable. Personally, I believe people activities contribute to large extent.

You may well be right on this, but the 'official' view is much narrower -- it's CO2 and only CO2 to blame, so let's tax it and restrict it out of existence, and deal those nasty capitalists a blow at the same time.

For example, the glacier atop Mount Kilimanjaro has been receding rapidly over the last 30 years or so. Surveys showed that the summit temperature has never been above –1.6 C (30 F), and its mean temperature has been –7 C (18 F), far too cold to melt. In fact, according to NASA's satellites, that region of central Africa has cooled over the 30-year satellite record.

What was happening was that a rapidly growing population round the base of the mountain had been engaging in imprudent deforestation, leading to a local drying of the atmosphere, a sharp reduction in precipitation, and consequent loss of ice (there are details of this in a paper by Molg et al., 2003).

But this conclusion is no use to politicians or the media -- there are none of the usual whipping boys available and no grand policy announcements to be made. Far from it. The culprits in this case are not evil Western capitalists, but the indigenous people leading their traditional lifestyle, and we can't take pot-shots at them, now.

So the realities of 'global warming' are often ignored because of the political and activist focus on CO2, and that kind of misleading approach cannot be good for anyone.

By the way, didn't I read that the US just abandoned the term 'global warming' and replaced it with something else? Irritable Climate Syndrome, or something?

Edited September 20, 2010 by RickBradford

[Thaddeus]

Yep, I still get a giggle looking back at the Millennium Bug crisis. The company I worked for at the time made a heap of money checking all our clients computer systems for Y2K compliance, while knowing at the time that they wouldn't have a problem at all. When this crisis dissipates like the morning mist, don't worry, there will be another one waiting in the wings.

Yes, the Y2K thing elicits a sigh from me also. Even while it was the rage, and great for selling newspapers - all through 1999. However, not all forewarnings are worthy of giggles.

<snip>

Not all Y2K warnings were pointless. If nothing was done, then some computer systems would have failed or at least produced incorrect results.

Sure, it was probably over hyped (as man made global warming is now) but that doesn't mean nothing should be done about it.

Agree, I did say 'our clients' and not the whole world, some systems needed attention, that is a given (I don't think that anyone would have died though, which is why I felt safe to giggle )

I was merely making the analogy that 'the company' was getting on the Y2K band wagon, and making a shed load of money out of it.

The AGW situation is much more serious, and therefore makes more money for those that would have us believe it's much more serious and all our fault.

[Fookhaht]

Personally, I'd say its been uninhabitable for quite some time already.

Beat me to it!

[Tigs]

Yes, the Y2K thing elicits a sigh from me also. Even while it was the rage, and great for selling newspapers - all through 1999. However, not all forewarnings are worthy of giggles.

No one predicted the Indian Ocean tsunami of a few years ago, except (after the fact) there was a mention of one Thai scientist who supposedly had made a peep of a prior mention. No one predicted fuel-filled airliners crashing in to NYC skyscrapers - though there were a few faint prior indications (Arabs studying to fly 747's in Florida, who only wanted to study about flying solo - and didn't give a hoot about any other aspects of flying).

Sometimes warnings are hype, whereas other times it behooves the general public to take heed. That's part of why we have brains - to try and discern between real and fake threats. Interesting that professional psychics (my wife was one also) aren't able to predict the most dire events, even though they take money to predict all sorts of petty personal things. Psychics do a lucrative business in a hyper-superstitious country like Thailand - yet it's all smoke and mirrors a.k.a. hocus pocus.

This post is just ludicrous. What exactly are you trying to say? A Thai scientist made an accurate prediction of the Tsunami before the incident? Stating when and where it was going to happen?

Are you trying to say the fact that there were some Arab Flying students in the US who were interested in solo flying that that should have been an indicator of the twin tower attacks? It seems you have caught too many of the hocus pocus elements of your wife's profession of 'professional psychic'. Just complete nonsense.

[teatree]

One aspect of the global warming hullabaloo that I look forward to is someday reminiscing about the fear mongering and being able to tell my kids I never fell for it. Of course no one will care because there will be another global crisis ongoing.

Yes, I too am looking forward to that day. Future generations will look back and laugh at the way people were made to believe that an entirely natural event was caused by humans and that the only solution was to tax and control the 'pollutant' CO2, one of the key building blocks of life (along with oxygen, water and sunlight) and a natural plant fertilizer.

I truly believe all the bedwetting doomsayers will be treated with the same kind of ridicule as Medieval witch doctors are today.

[naiharn]

<br />WhyBother<br /><br />Rick is correct, and sometimes I feel like 'why bother'. Further back in the thread I already stated that since 1981 the Arctic ice cap has only diminished by 7% and the Antarctic has grown by over 45% where is the melting?

Rick also posted a graph showing Antarctic ice cover has been growing by about 1.4% per decade over the last 3 decades - a total of 4.2%. That is hugely different from 45%. If he is correct, then care to explain your 45%?

Naiharn

Yes I would care to explain, although you could always get your internet backside of its metaphorical chair and let your fingers do some walking. If you want more info, just ask, your tone is a little aggressive..no need. The National Snow and Ice Data Center in the US used to be an excellent independent research unit until it was recently given major funding by NASA, however you will still find as much data as you wish to search for. There are many things to quantify in Ice coverage. Sea Ice, Ice Concentration, Ice anomolies etc etc. I don't know what Ricks graph shows when it says Southern Hemisphere.. What I can tell you is about the Antarctic. In 1980 there were 3.5 million sq Km of sea ice there are currently 5 million sq km of sea ice, I think the sums for percentage increase are easy enough to guestimate in your head. In terms of ice concentration there were 2 million sq Km, there are now 2,9 Million sq Km, again the sums are easy to guestimate in your head. The figures I gave for the North are equally as accurate.

you could always get your internet backside of its metaphorical chair + your tone is a little aggressive

Hmmm... You are the one that agreed with another poster, then made a claim that seemed to totally contradict what he had said. So why should I be the one that must go searching for your evidence? YOU made the claim, so YOU provide the evidence!

I don't know what Ricks graph shows when it says Southern Hemisphere.. What I can tell you is about the Antarctic.

I think you'll find that the vast majority of ice in the southern hemisphere is located near or at the Antarctic!

In 1980 there were 3.5 million sq Km of sea ice there are currently 5 million sq km of sea ice,

What do you mean by 'In 1980'? Surely the figure depends a lot on the month. There is a lot more sea ice in August than there is in February!

Despite your long-winded reply, you failed to do the simple thing that would persuade me of your claim: a URL! A URL pointing to a credible source that backs your claim. Never mind, I did do some quick searches, revealing: http://nsidc.org/sea...difference.html

Average maximum areal extent of Antarctic sea ice is 18,000,000km^2.

Average minimum areal extent = 3,000,000 km^2

Trend from 1979 to 2008: "Small increase of 0.9% (~100,000 km²; 42,000 mi²) per decade"

Figures match what I've seen elsewhere.

[MikeyIdea]

Living in Thailand for many years have taught me patience so I'll just wait and see what happens. Somehow I doubt that I won't be able to continue to happily live in Bangkok after the 7 years have passed

[teatree]

A good video showing how easily people can be manipulated. They get people to sign a petition to ban water by calling it a scary name (Dihydrogen Monoxide - an unfamiliar name for water) and telling them it causes excess urination.

[canmaninpat]

This would be an excellent time for all believers in Al Gore's Anthropogenic Global Warming or as the White House renamed it yesteday, 'Global Climate Disruption', to move away from Bangkok now. That is all.

I prefer the 'climate change' description as I totally agree with the concept of climate change although I simply call it weather!

[RickBradford]

I prefer the 'climate change' description as I totally agree with the concept of climate change although I simply call it weather!

Climate change is not just Weather -- it's Weather with Taxes...

[SomTumTiger]

Ahh - another Global Warming Thread - Watch this, and then try to argue against it's conclusions. I dare you!

Edited September 20, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[Rachawadee]

Personally, I'd say its been uninhabitable for quite some time already.

I agree.

[brahmburgers]

Yes, the Y2K thing elicits a sigh from me also. Even while it was the rage, and great for selling newspapers - all through 1999. However, not all forewarnings are worthy of giggles.

No one predicted the Indian Ocean tsunami of a few years ago, except (after the fact) there was a mention of one Thai scientist who supposedly had made a peep of a prior mention. No one predicted fuel-filled airliners crashing in to NYC skyscrapers - though there were a few faint prior indications (Arabs studying to fly 747's in Florida, who only wanted to study about flying solo - and didn't give a hoot about any other aspects of flying).

Sometimes warnings are hype, whereas other times it behooves the general public to take heed. That's part of why we have brains - to try and discern between real and fake threats. Interesting that professional psychics (my wife was one also) aren't able to predict the most dire events, even though they take money to predict all sorts of petty personal things. Psychics do a lucrative business in a hyper-superstitious country like Thailand - yet it's all smoke and mirrors a.k.a. hocus pocus.

This post is just ludicrous. What exactly are you trying to say? A Thai scientist made an accurate prediction of the Tsunami before the incident? Stating when and where it was going to happen?

that's what I heard. Is that ludicrous to you?

Are you trying to say the fact that there were some Arab Flying students in the US who were interested in solo flying that that should have been an indicator of the twin tower attacks? It seems you have caught too many of the hocus pocus elements of your wife's profession of 'professional psychic'. Just complete nonsense.

If you were part of a speedboat class which had some Arabs in attendance, and the Arabs didn't care at all about mooring, about seamanship, about maintenance, or about starting the boats. They only paid attention in class when the subject concerned solo driving at full speed - you would be excused for being somewhat suspicious that something fishy might be going on.

[souvenirdeparis]

@RickBradford

Thank you for answering, I read the answer to Brahmburger ( whose views I share) on the Kilimandjaro too.

What strikes me is that I can't remember a thing about Global Cooling or whatever it was called, in the 70's, whereas I was interested in pollution, deforestation, nuclear waste ; later I remember the ozon layer scare, the CFC ban ; I remember the nuclear winter fear , but global cooling maybe just hadn't time to make it to me before vanishing.

Last winter we had storms here in France ; new-built houses on the Atlantic coast must be abandonned ; they aren't currently under water , but were flooded and have been declared uninhabitable (with some retro -pedalling from the govt because the people want to stay, or ask govt to buy their houses, or build a higher dyke , there was one already. It would be fascinating on a BKKian scale ; it happened overnight.

[elcent]

now the Obama admin finally is moving and doing something, apart from cap and trade.

They call it climate disturbance probably for marketing reasons and to make it easier to milk the cows(tax payers) to the bones but not those who actually created/creating the disturbance.

[Tigs]

now the Obama admin finally is moving and doing something, apart from cap and trade.

They call it climate disturbance probably for marketing reasons and to make it easier to milk the cows(tax payers) to the bones but not those who actually created/creating the disturbance.

elcant

Thanks. is it just me or is that the biggest laugh ever? I guess it will now all continue as Climate Disturbance credits instead of Carbon credits! they are muppets, the lot of them.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Tigs

[somchai69]

It seems very pompous to be so definite about 7 years?

After all Bangkok was seriously underwater in the early 80's, did he miss that??

In the intervening 30 years there have been only minor attempts to improve river walls and pumps,

but nothing serious like the Thames Flood Barrier in London.

Even that has been enhanced with the raising of the height of the river defences, downstream,

by some 5 metres, the grassy bank above riverside walk, shown in the photo below.

[Bottlerocket]

Well, it certainly reads like a fairy story, all right.

There is a certain sort of person who needs to make themselves feel important and meaningful by pretending to have discovered the latest Oh No We're Doomed scenario, and this fellow fits the profile perfectly.

Your response is uninformed, Rick. You may be skeptical of Dr Art-ong's views, but he doesn't need to make himself important.

This is his CV:

Prof. Dr. Art-Ong Jumsai Na Ayudhya, Thailand

Name: Dr. Art-ong Jumsai Na Ayudhya

Contact Address: 99 Mu 2, Lamnarai, Chaibadan, Lopburi 15130, Thailand

Email:

Education

• B.A. (Hons), M.A. Mechanical Sciences, Cambridge, U.K.
• D.I.C., Ph.D. Communications, Imperial College of Science and Technology, London University
• Ph.D. Education – Curriculum and Instruction, Faculty of Education, Chulalongkorn University, Thailand

Past Experiences

1. Senior Lecture at the Faculty of Engineering, Chulalongkorn University
2. Deputy Dean of Students AffairsDirector of the Institute of Scientific and Technological Research of Thailand
3. Member of Parliament (Elected three times)Deputy Chairman of the House Committee on Education
4. Secretary of the House Committee on Science, Technology and Environment
5. Executive Director, Asia Pacific Parliamentary Union secretary to the Foreign Minister
6. Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Engineering, Chulalongkorn University
7. Special Lecturer at all the Universities in Thailand
8. Training of teachers in Human Values Education in many countries in all continents
9. Three times elected Member of Parliament
10. Elected Member of the House of Senate

Special Experiences

Participated in NASA's Vlking Space Project in the design of the automatic landing device.

Expert in the National Research Council on rockets for Use in the Artificial Rain Making Project

Present Position

• Director of the Institute of Sathya Sai Education, Thailand
• Chief Administrator of the Sathya Sai School, Thailand
• Official Trainer of Teachers for the Ministry of Education in Human Values Education

Awards

• Top Scientist of the Year for Invention that is of benefit to the Country, 1987
• Philosopher of Thai Wisdom, Naresuan University, 2005
• Best Book of the Year – Path to Peace – for children age 12 to 18 years, 2007
• Knight Commander of the Order of the White Elephant
• Knight Commander of the Order of the Crown of Thailand
• Knight Grand Cordon of the Order of the White Elephant
• Knight Grand Cordon of the Order of the Crown of Thailand

Publications

1. 1991 Handbook for Teachers in Education Human Values
2. 1997 Five Human Values and Human Excellence: Integration of Human Values in Mathematics and Sciences

And what in his resume precisely qualifies him to make fantastical claims of a climatological and geological nature?

[souvenirdeparis]

http://www.lepost.fr/article/2010/03/01/1965990_tempete-xinthia-le-recap-en-images.html

check out pics of the Xinthia freak hurricane on the French Atlantic coast last feb .

45 dead.

about 1000 houses became uninhabitable overnight ; big legal battle over state buying back the houses to destroy them ; people want a higher dyke .

on one of the pics you can see the sea at the top, and the dark line is the present dyke.

(can't seem to paste the pics to day .)

State buys the houses at market value before the storm and most complain.

[RickBradford]

http://www.lepost.fr...-en-images.html

check out pics of the Xinthia freak hurricane on the French Atlantic coast last feb .

45 dead.

about 1000 houses became uninhabitable overnight ; big legal battle over state buying back the houses to destroy them ; people want a higher dyke .

on one of the pics you can see the sea at the top, and the dark line is the present dyke.

(can't seem to paste the pics to day .)

State buys the houses at market value before the storm and most complain.

Then I'm sure people in France will be heartened by the news that the storm was simply a freak, not the by-product of 'global warming'.

From the American Meteorological Society

The analysis of twenty-two disaster loss studies show no trends in losses, corrected for changes (increases) in population and capital at risk, that could be attributed to anthropogenic climate change.

You will not find studies such as this reported in the mainstream media, unfortunately.

[souvenirdeparis]

@RickBradford

'Freak' is my own comment ; GW was often talked of, but old people in this region at once said that

-new houses should never have been allowed there, since it had already happened .

mayors were wrong to hand out building permits there.

-old dykes weren't taken care of , neglected , money going elsewhere.

--

Try to imagine the Thaï govt offering to buy back endangered houses at market value .

--

Lots of ancient cities now are under water (Alexandria)

--

A sister of mine had a job in the chemical industry , met top bosses all her life ;none believes in GW ; they all said CFC was a hoax too.

May they be right, I worry lots about emerging countries polluting more and more.

Trouble is population is growing, everybody wants a beach front bungalow.

me too some day if I can.

[rubl]

Just to remind people and posters of the OP:

[RickBradford]

^^

Yes, indeed

[creck]

@RickBradford

'Freak' is my own comment ; GW was often talked of, but old people in this region at once said that

-new houses should never have been allowed there, since it had already happened .

mayors were wrong to hand out building permits there.

-old dykes weren't taken care of , neglected , money going elsewhere.

--

Try to imagine the Thaï govt offering to buy back endangered houses at market value .

--

Lots of ancient cities now are under water (Alexandria)

--

A sister of mine had a job in the chemical industry , met top bosses all her life ;none believes in GW ; they all said CFC was a hoax too.

May they be right, I worry lots about emerging countries polluting more and more.

Trouble is population is growing, everybody wants a beach front bungalow.

me too some day if I can.

One swallow doesn’t make a summer. Defining one storm as a freak doesn’t show the fallacy of Global Warming. It is a time of climate change. Homes have been lost due to ‘Permafrost’ melting, due to rising sea levels. This topic on TV seems to run and run. I have spent the time looking up most of the references. I have learnt I am not a climatologist and never will be. I have learnt that it is an incredibly complex system that we are just realising how complex. It most certainly is touching new (unseen before) values in its parameters.

We cannot predict it accurately yet. There is a body of opinion that suggests it will now dive into an ice age. I still hold my previous opinion that trying to control it by finding the ‘key human forcings’ should not be our priority. The USA and China already produce 60% of the CO² entering the atmosphere,in a relative few years China will double its activity. By then the two great economies will control 90% - talking to the rest of us is pointless. Trying to model the clmate, yes must be useful; it can never be highly accurate but good enough to give us clues as to what defensive action we should take. That should be our priority.

[souvenirdeparis]

and Creck very nicely wrapped up the whole matter so we can now move on to other threads

[teatree]

This video has to be seen to be believed.

It's promoting the 1010 campaign to cut carbon and in the video anyone who is skeptical of the idea is executed by detonation!!!

Makes you wonder how many eco-fascists out there would actually support executing skeptics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLDel-G9k&feature=player_embedded

[canuckamuck]

To me it smells like desperation in the warmist camp.

They are very frustrated with those who continue to think for themselves regardless of the peer pressure.

[Tigs]

teatree

Thanks for the Vid link. What can I say.....speechless!

So we had the AGW Scientists, who poured scorn and humiliation on any Scientist bold enough to disagree with them. Now that the IPCC have been exposed as frauds and the AGW Scientists can no longer use their tactic, we now have groups such as the 1010, who effectively say, agree with us or we will kill you. This is terrorism at its best. An absolutely scandalous video. I guess like any movement the Greenies have some good sensible ideas and philosophies but if you let the extremists in then you better watch out!!

[Xangsamhua]

teatree

Thanks for the Vid link. What can I say.....speechless!

So we had the AGW Scientists, who poured scorn and humiliation on any Scientist bold enough to disagree with them. Now that the IPCC have been exposed as frauds and the AGW Scientists can no longer use their tactic, we now have groups such as the 1010, who effectively say, agree with us or we will kill you. This is terrorism at its best. An absolutely scandalous video. I guess like any movement the Greenies have some good sensible ideas and philosophies but if you let the extremists in then you better watch out!!

I thought it was a send-up of the 10:10 campaign, but a look at their website reveals that they actually did commission it, and thought it was funny!

Anyway, they've taken it off their website. Someone must have brought them to their senses.

I know humour is a subjective thing, but I'd find it hard to take them seriously now.

[Tigs]

teatree

Thought you might like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ&feature=player_embedded

30 000 scientists to sue Al Gore 555, including 9000 PhDs.