Old Motorcycle Without Book, Big Problem?

[tomloughney]

There was an old motorcycle show in Pattaya a few weeks ago. It was a repeat of a show last year. I suspect that there could have been 10,000 old restored Honda's and such. The GF and I went last year with her son from Bangkok. It was a great event with lots of young people having a great time.

This year the boy (22 yr) driving from BK on the old Honda with a few friends who were then stopped in Sirracha. Two of them did not have the proper book. The bike was made from several old bikes over the last few years (the kid spends about 500 baht a month playing with it) and the engine/frame do not match so no book.

GF gets the call and she heads from Pattaya to Sirracha, I give her a few thousand Baht which should cover the ticket or fine or what ever. She calls in a panic, the "big" cop wants to have 100,000 baht or the kid will spend 5 years in the monkey house. I assume yaba or some drugs in a piss test, but no they are clean, no drugs.

We then find out that the governor of Chonburi had told the police NOT to check the paperwork as many of these bikes have problems. The case is then transferred to a Junior officer, who re-writes the charge for some small charge. Thus covering the ass of the idiot who did not read the announcement about leaving the kids alone.

The bike however is now in impound.

<deleted> is going on? Or they need to have a guarantee from a government employee, the GF has a cousin who is a cop in BK but he is not high enough to do the guarantee. She finds a Teacher from her village up north that can do this for her (for 3000 baht). He happened to be in Chonburi for conference and went to the police station and did the paperwork.

2000 other costs to the police, the kid and his friend (who was guaranteed by another teacher) are allowed to leave and come to my house.

A month goes by, the kid back to work in BK, the police call and say that the paperwork for the guarantee is not complete, the teacher claims he sent the additional paperwork to Sirracha, the cops say no.

So the GF panics again, asked me to use a property deed to do the guarantee, but when I ask what is the procedure and time line for getting it back, she has no idea and nobody else does either, so I think this is a bad thing for me to hand over a deed with no time line for getting it back. She is totally pissed, and as a mom would be panicked about the boy going to the slammer again.

We get another teacher who has now come from Issan and will do this paperwork today, he needs 5,000 baht. The kid needs to come from BK and will go with this guy.

The GF figures that the bike is lost, no book no way to get it back and it can not have a book. I think that the police will eventually sell the bike at auction, and they will provide a book for the bike, so it is possible to get a book, but no one knows how to do that.

I am very surprised that this has turned into such a big deal, over a missing book, and this type of problem must exist in 100,000 old bikes in Thailand.

Am I missing something?

How to get the bike back, is it possible to get a new book?

Tom

[gotlost]

Vehicles of any kind (bike/car/truck) without a book are totally useless and can not be registered or insured. Can you get a counterfeited book sure, if caught then you will have a bigger problem yet. Moral to this story is buy a bike with legitimate paper work.

[dave111223]

100,000 baht....even the most bent cop wouldn't dream of taking the piss that badly!

On of our employees recently crashed his modified (illegally) motorbike into the back of a car. He has no ownership book and no insurance (pora bor(?). He had to go to the police station and pay an on the spot fine of 500THB (with receipt) and then had to agree to pay 8000THB to the car owners insurance company for damages to the car.

100,000! LOL! IMHO either your GF or her son are trying to make a fast buck here.

[random]

Maybe the kid has gone in the station and mentioned his 'farang' stepdad, and the greedy bastard at the station has seen dollar signs and come up with a ridiculous figure hoping you would just hand it over. Don't hand over any more to the police, just keep it dragging on and on until they get bored, also let them know that next time you will send him with a lawyer to put an end to all the nonsense.

[Loz]

Sounds like you are 10,000B in the hole already with no sign of releif. I think you might be being bled slowly. What exactly are the offences that would carry 5 years in jail?

If you know someone of serious influence then I suggest you go to the top of your "contacts" tree and at least seek their advice on the matter. I wouldn't ask for outright help (nor offer money) but see what they say in the first instance. maybe post the results here as a sounding board.

Alternatively, if you love and trust your wife, just give her access to all your finances and advise her she has your blessing to resolve the matter as best she can. Being Thai, she may well have the best perspective, and being the mother she will surely take care best of her son.

Good luck.

[carmine]

If you don't get a book then its the equivalent of flushing your money down the toilet.

[JAM1E]

Am I missing something?

This year the boy (22 yr)

This should Read: This year the man (22 yr) He is not 12 he is an adult. He makes his own mess he sorts it out himself......

Keep your money.

Jam1e

[robblok]

Am I missing something?

This year the boy (22 yr)

This should Read: This year the man (22 yr) He is not 12 he is an adult. He makes his own mess he sorts it out himself......

Keep your money.

Jam1e

Im pretty sure that at age 22 my dad would do a lot to get me out of trouble. This might not be his real dad but his wife is the real mother.

[slapout]

If any 22 year old expects his dad/mother to get him out of self inflicted trouble, he needs more help than that furnished by the parent/s. Kind of late to be weening the kid from the teat.

[scorecard]

Is there another point here?.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but the OP says nothing negative about the 22 yr old step-son, so is this an opportunity to build a stronger bond between the OP and the step-son by helping him to get another bike (something that will make the young man happy) which does have all the legitimate paperwork.

Seems to me that the previous (non documented) bike will never be recovered and not worth any further time or headaches once the police paper work requirements are completed.

Time to move on.

[robblok]

If any 22 year old expects his dad/mother to get him out of self inflicted trouble, he needs more help than that furnished by the parent/s. Kind of late to be weening the kid from the teat.

There is a difference between expecting it and getting the help. When i was young and broke up with a gf (bought a house together) and needed someone to help me put the extra money up for a mortgage my dad was there to help me.

Parents help their kids no questions asked unless it was something really stupid even then parents will help their kids.

[Flatouthruthefog]

If you don't get a book then its the equivalent of flushing your money down the toilet.

Hi

With respect, there ARE two legal, local markets for bikes and other vehicles with no blue 'tabien rot' books. The first is highly specialised and tiny - and depends totally on the spec of the bike, car or truck.

It's been established that if a vehicle is used for motor sport ONLY, it does not need a tabien rot. It will be carried around on a pick up truck or trailer and its tyres will never touch the public road. So this bike (and I do NOT know bikes) might be offered for sale to bike racers and motocross type riders in the specialist press, websites, or by actually attending motorsport meetings.

Alternatively, split it into parts and sell them to a spares shop!

[Dakhar]

sounds like a great "boy" that is "going" places

he shows so much drive, determination & is goal oriented. I mean really, I bet his patch work scooter is the best in the village...

[JAM1E]

To the Op Sorry my post was not meant to have a go at your parenting skills.

I was just saying he is an adult it is a bent bike dont waste your money. He new it was a bent bike and took a chance like we all do in life. Draw a line under this bike right it off and help him get a legal bike. That will help your son more in the long run. Good luck hope it all works out

Robblock

This is a bent bike not a mortgage or anything of any importance. By helping him out and putting good money after bad how will this show his son how to grow into a fine young man.

[Dakhar]

To the Op Sorry my post was not meant to have a go at your parenting skills.

I was just saying he is an adult it is a bent bike dont waste your money. He new it was a bent bike and took a chance like we all do in life. Draw a line under this bike right it off and help him get a legal bike. That will help your son more in the long run. Good luck hope it all works out

Robblock

This is a bent bike not a mortgage or anything of any importance. By helping him out and putting good money after bad how will this show his son how to grow into a fine young man.

"Young Man"

What is he now a todler? He is 22 for heaven's sake...

[robblok]

To the Op Sorry my post was not meant to have a go at your parenting skills.

I was just saying he is an adult it is a bent bike dont waste your money. He new it was a bent bike and took a chance like we all do in life. Draw a line under this bike right it off and help him get a legal bike. That will help your son more in the long run. Good luck hope it all works out

Robblock

This is a bent bike not a mortgage or anything of any importance. By helping him out and putting good money after bad how will this show his son how to grow into a fine young man.

I might have misread.. i thought the money was not for getting the bike back but for keeping the guy out of prison.

[RudieTheFoodie]

To the OP.

I hate to say this and I hope I'm wrong, but like one or two posters above I think your being had by your girlfriend.

50% of bikes are like that here (reducing slowly) anyway. Thais would pay maximum 100bt fine OCCASIONALLY (once a month or so)

Its a grey area. Like all the ringer hi-power rental bikes in places like pattaya, they have no paperwork. They are made from imported parts from mostly japan and stolen parts from eastern europe. That way they avoid the 300% or so tax import duties - BUT THEY HAVE NO LOGBOOK/REGISTRATION DOCUMENT. The police allow them to be ridden - BUT THEY CAN IMPOUND AT ANY TIME

Of all this, NO ONE WOULD HAVE TO PAY A FINE - In thailand losing such a decent possession is punishment enough.

I would understand if it happened to a "green" farang, but to a 22yo thai - IMPOSSIBILITY - 100%

Sorry - but if theres a problem better to find out early as you can.

Like I said - hope i'm wrong and best of luck.

[geriatrickid]

sounds like a great "boy" that is "going" places

he shows so much drive, determination & is goal oriented. I mean really, I bet his patch work scooter is the best in the village...

C'mon. Don't be so cynical. Better a hobby like that than sitting around with a thumb up his bum waiting to score some yaba, right? It's normal for young guys to have a hobby like that. It's useful too.

That being said, I think the step father is going to suffer a death by a thousand pinpricks. No way the infraction would cost 100K or have jail time attached. Either there is additional important information about the case not disclosed or that the OP is unaware of, or it's a fleecing.

Instead of dropping money all over the place, an exit plan should be devised. That means consulting with a reliable lawyer. Too many twists and turns with this case.

[tomloughney]

Thanks for the input, the current situation is that the Teacher came from Issan and they did the paperwork at the police station. 1000 for the cops and 5000 for the teacher, who needs to come back when the young man goes to court. Which is an some unknown time and date.

No one that I have talked with yet can explain why a minor offense requires such hoops to jump thru. I fully expect that there is more to this story than I am aware of. The Thais figure that it is a 500 or 1000 baht deal and he loses the bike.

The mother of the other kid, and the teacher who guaranteed the other kid, and the new teacher all came here. Seems that they were all so kind and concerned about the well being of my GF's son.... really not a Thai trait now is it.....

I think the kid is busted for some other thing, or the other kid had the stuff and they were both together in the deed, causing the other Mom to be concerned about both of the kids, so one does not turn on the other..

I will drop by my lawyer and ask him about the probability of this happening.

I know the bike is toast, I don't care at all about the bike, it is only 10,000 at most.

However if the GF is handing me a story, that is serious. I don't really care if the kid got busted on some other charge, so did I at that age. Sort of the right of passage for some of us.

I just can't seem to understand and I have been here long enough to know that there is a really good reason when I can't understand, and that reason is the entire thing could be bullshit. But I can be wrong....

[Loz]

Nothing wrong with old bikes. I'm guessing its an Old HOnda Cub series, like mine.

Now I would say that the primary use for these old bikes is buzzing around the village where the local dibble will turn a blind eye if you haven't got all your paper work. But... Nothing wrong with going further afield if all your shit is in order.

Now when I used to tour on mine I know that other lads in the group were not all papered up. However, we went to parties all over the place and there were plenty of Police there TO HELP and by the invitation of the party hosts usually. Nobody ever got hasseled and that was even with a farang in tow.

As for the hobby. I think it's an admirable one... but I am biased

Hey, this is like one of Ian's posts!

[tomloughney]

I am ok with the young man and the old bike, I know that most/many of these old things don't have papers as they are mostly assembled from several bikes.

My concern is that this is a 100,000 baht offense or have a personal guarantee from a ranking government official and go to court..... Something does not add up to me, more to be revealed in due time.

Nothing wrong with old bikes. I'm guessing its an Old HOnda Cub series, like mine.

Now I would say that the primary use for these old bikes is buzzing around the village where the local dibble will turn a blind eye if you haven't got all your paper work. But... Nothing wrong with going further afield if all your shit is in order.

Now when I used to tour on mine I know that other lads in the group were not all papered up. However, we went to parties all over the place and there were plenty of Police there TO HELP and by the invitation of the party hosts usually. Nobody ever got hasseled and that was even with a farang in tow.

As for the hobby. I think it's an admirable one... but I am biased

Hey, this is like one of Ian's posts!

[moe666]

As all things Thai the full story will eventually come out.

[nisakiman]

BUT...........

Love those bikes Loz! They look immaculate. Great pics - be good to see some more.

[thaicbr]

Don't worry about the bike leave it with the police. then spend 29.999b and get the 'kid' a Tiger Retro.

Go to the Tigersachs club website to see them. All fully legal and customisable.

[Loz]

BUT...........

Love those bikes Loz! They look immaculate. Great pics - be good to see some more.

Well it started out like this...

but with a little elbow grease and imagination...

it went from ugly duckling to Swan, or something like..

And it had no problems covering 500kms in 16 hours on this trip to Petchabun!

Back on topic...

Any progress? Asked any of the difficult questions?

[tim armstrong]

Go in person with your wife back to the Governor of Chonburi Province. He seems to be the key, and more on side than anyone else. As a gesture he may well appreciate some GOOD Australian,(Penfolds or similar)red wine, or some aged malt Scotch.(Glenmorangie or LaPhroiag). Just an idea.

[scorecard]

To the OP.

I hate to say this and I hope I'm wrong, but like one or two posters above I think your being had by your girlfriend.

50% of bikes are like that here (reducing slowly) anyway. Thais would pay maximum 100bt fine OCCASIONALLY (once a month or so)

Its a grey area. Like all the ringer hi-power rental bikes in places like pattaya, they have no paperwork. They are made from imported parts from mostly japan and stolen parts from eastern europe. That way they avoid the 300% or so tax import duties - BUT THEY HAVE NO LOGBOOK/REGISTRATION DOCUMENT. The police allow them to be ridden - BUT THEY CAN IMPOUND AT ANY TIME

Of all this, NO ONE WOULD HAVE TO PAY A FINE - In thailand losing such a decent possession is punishment enough.

I Disagree with this negative post in many ways.

I would understand if it happened to a "green" farang, but to a 22yo thai - IMPOSSIBILITY - 100%

Sorry - but if theres a problem better to find out early as you can.

Like I said - hope i'm wrong and best of luck.

I disagree with rudiethefoodie in many ways, seems to me you have gone out of your way to write the most negative post possible.

The vast majority of Thai people are totally genuine, trustworthy, care deeply about their kids, and have no interest in ripping anybody off.

The OP says nothing negative about the young man involved and it's highly possible that the young guy was naive to the book needed for this bike, and it's perhaps possible that the young man has been given completely wrong advice from someone he's been in contact with. People of all ages believe what they are told without rralizing that the advice is in fact wrong.

Most people from most counties don't have a total understand of all the various pieces of documentation.

On the other side of the coin nobody can accurately forecast what the bib will get up to and demands for outrageous 'fines' do happen.

[MaiChai]

Why do these problems the Thais get themselves into become the farangs problem? Anyone 20 and older in Thailand is an adult and can take of themselves. I refuse to take on the responsibility of problems created by others (Thais and farangs); I have spent too long in Thailand and seen too many problems created by others to want to help or assist. The Thai extended family will always be getting themselves into trouble; why does it become your responsibility to fix the problem?

If you drive around on a heavily modified bike without a proper book then its just a matter of time before you will get stopped by the police. Remember police don't stop you to enforce the law here; they stop you to collect money for themselves. Partly because society is so corrupt here, and partly because the government don't pay them decent salaries in the first place. Its normal to loose the bike; try and fight it with lawyers, but then this can become a money pit too.

Sorry for the negativity, but I have been burned too many times with this type of scenario to want to help, not to mention you rarely get any thanks for helping. I think I help enough already and throwing your money around only shows the Thais stay with you for the money. See if they stay with you when you are broke? TiT.

Edited September 21, 2010 by MaiChai

[tomloughney]

The GF explained further. The boy when stopped had a fraudulent book and fake plates, no tax and no insurance. The police had been instructed NOT to stop the old bikes but this clown did that, so to cover up his mistake he charged the kid(s) with theft and fraud. The charges were reduced the next day by a junior officer, but it still needs to proceed to the court. They claim that by giving them cash under the table, 2 thousand so far, they will conclude this quickly.

If you get stopped for not having a book, then it is a 400 baht fine and they just let you go as it is not possible to get a new book in Thailand. With so many incorrectly registered the police would have a riot on their hands if they took all of them. If they take them what do they do, I guess sell them without a book.

That is the story so far...but TIT and it can change quickly

[thaicbr]

"The police had been instructed NOT to stop the old bikes but this clown did that, so to cover up his mistake he charged the kid(s) with theft and fraud"

So the police man actually did what he is paid for and caught some one in several criminal acts. eg: fraud (no plate is a different and lesser offence) no insurance, no tax (did he have a licence). false plate is fraud. And you call the police man a clown. when in fact its the 'young lad' who's the clown for trying it on.

PS. in Thailand you CAN get basic insurance even on unplated bikes. Also it is possible to get a green book IF a) you have money and you have all the paperwork in order.

Edited September 21, 2010 by thaicbr