Thai Police & Us Dea Announce Operation “Hot Spot” In Pattaya

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Yes. Follow the USA, their war on drugs has done great wonders for their country.

I have it on pretty good authority that we're going to see some major victories in that War literally any day now. Another trillion or two and a few thousand more Mexican lives lost and we'll turn that corner. Stay strong soldier, it's always darkest just before the dawn, when the going gets tough, etc.

We can argue forever on the success or otherwise of any other operations of this sort but where there is intent then perhaps there are results.

The cynicism on this forum saddens me.

Can we? Pretty sure those arguing on the side of "Otherwise" in that debate would shut it down pretty quick smart.

The cynicism on this forum gladdens me.

[BaronCasey]

How inappropriate. The Taliban had almost eliminated opium production in Afghanistan before the U.S. led invasion. Then the CIA permitted fresh cultivation in order to win local people over, and production went up 900%. What a great track record for the DEA - who's overseas operations are supervised by the CIA.

[craigt3365]

How inappropriate. The Taliban had almost eliminated opium production in Afghanistan before the U.S. led invasion. Then the CIA permitted fresh cultivation in order to win local people over, and production went up 900%. What a great track record for the DEA - who's overseas operations are supervised by the CIA.

Really? I just found out the Taliban are using opium production to fund their terrorist operations (and to buy weapons). Did they have a change of heart prompted by the CIA? Not so sure about that, but I could be wrong....

I guess this opium is a real problem there...corruption of government officials, etc. Sad....

[kuffki]

How inappropriate. The Taliban had almost eliminated opium production in Afghanistan before the U.S. led invasion. Then the CIA permitted fresh cultivation in order to win local people over, and production went up 900%. What a great track record for the DEA - who's overseas operations are supervised by the CIA.

you have a connection in Taliban to confirm this? or only relying on Anti-American propaganda from Taliban. How exactly Taliban funds all its operations and arms buying? Must be money from the sale of camels

[ronz28]

Looks like a positive action to me. I looked over some of the most wanted posters and related crimes on the announced website. http://dea-rewards.com/len/index.php is the English language home page and click on the Thai flag for the one in Thai. Those guys should be off the streets and if these efforts put them away then its a good thing.

[Bagwan]

I would prefer that my kids didnt have access to these drugs. Send in the Marines

Yeah. Good idea. I can see them in my mind's eye now storming onto Pattaya beach. How they fight their way across Beach Road might present problems though. Maybe they can hire some of the intrepid tour guides, who I love scaring the crap out of, who seem to think that they can stop all the traffic whenever it suits them. 

After the debacles of Mogadishu and the Tehran Embassy maybe helicopters might not be a good idea. 

[craigt3365]

I would prefer that my kids didnt have access to these drugs. Send in the Marines

Yeah. Good idea. I can see them in my mind's eye now storming onto Pattaya beach. How they fight their way across Beach Road might present problems though. Maybe they can hire some of the intrepid tour guides, who I love scaring the crap out of, who seem to think that they can stop all the traffic whenever it suits them. 

After the debacles of Mogadishu and the Tehran Embassy maybe helicopters might not be a good idea. 

I understand his point...whatever it takes to get rid of these drug dealers is not a bad idea...within limits of courese!

Like my Dad use to say...sit on the sidelines and you will never have to worry about a bloody nose...but you won't accomplish anything either. I am sure there are some in Somalia and Iran who are now wishing the US had succeeded. Can you imagine being a family in Somalia? Very sad....

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Back where I come from alcohol is the main drug of choice. It has been a significant problem for Native Americans for a very long time.

The War on Drugs has failed to do anything except magnify the drug problem and create lots of criminals out of non-criminals (e.g., marijuana smokers).

And it never has addressed the main drug problems: alcohol and tobacco. Which are also the main drug problems in Thailand that are not addressed.

The "policy" is insane. It was insane when introduced decades ago by Nixon. It continues to be insane.

The last entity on earth that I would want giving advice on how to "stop drugs" is the DEA.

[hoaker]

All for show!! the thai police is not going to go ahead with this. The local agency in Pattaya will stand to lose a lot of their revenues if this was actually carried out!! I'll believe it when more news about the the sting operations show up in the news and some poor guy taking the fall.

[petercool]

To Jingthing : the "imperialist" posters you talk of will pale by comparison when Pattaya will again see 5,000 US sailors come ashore very soon.

I think you are overreacting personally. If the Thais are not offended, why should you be ?

[Jingthing]

To Jingthing : the "imperialist" posters you talk of will pale by comparison when Pattaya will again see 5,000 US sailors come ashore very soon.

I think you are overreacting personally. If the Thais are not offended, why should you be ?

This is an international urban resort now. I do care how my country is perceived in the wake of the mistake in Iraq. Not only by Thais, but French people, Iranians, Germans, etc.

Shore leave is shore leave. It happens in port cities all over the world.

[Kilgore Trout]

Just maybe they were asked to do?

Good point

[fantuzi]

Looks like a positive action to me. I looked over some of the most wanted posters and related crimes on the announced website. http://dea-rewards.com/len/index.php is the English language home page and click on the Thai flag for the one in Thai. Those guys should be off the streets and if these efforts put them away then its a good thing.

Did you see the one who is the first item?geezer in glasses?.Pls. check the numbers given there,he is 80(eighty)today;he is no threat to anybody;this f*#!n joke!Give him break please!

And only one Nigerian - female.Do you know how many Nigerians passed through Bangkok Hilton - it counts in thousands! all of them for heroin,which was mostly destined to USA,

through secondary market in Lagos.Does it mean,that they caught all perpetrators already?I do not think so,they(DEA) have no clue - no names,no pictures(rasism?).

[craigt3365]

Back where I come from alcohol is the main drug of choice. It has been a significant problem for Native Americans for a very long time.

The War on Drugs has failed to do anything except magnify the drug problem and create lots of criminals out of non-criminals (e.g., marijuana smokers).

And it never has addressed the main drug problems: alcohol and tobacco. Which are also the main drug problems in Thailand that are not addressed.

The "policy" is insane. It was insane when introduced decades ago by Nixon. It continues to be insane.

The last entity on earth that I would want giving advice on how to "stop drugs" is the DEA.

Alcohol or cough syrup. I am part Chickasaw. My father was born on the res and my brother is working for the Apache's now. Booze is a huge problem, as you well know. But it is legal...and for many, that is an unfortunate fact. You can not buy or even have in your possession any booze where my brother lives. So they show up at the hospital with a cough and try and get some cough syrup. Enforcement is a HUGE help there...without it, things would be out of control....

[geriatrickid]

Looks like a positive action to me. I looked over some of the most wanted posters and related crimes on the announced website. http://dea-rewards.com/len/index.php is the English language home page and click on the Thai flag for the one in Thai. Those guys should be off the streets and if these efforts put them away then its a good thing.

Did you see the one who is the first item?geezer in glasses?.Pls. check the numbers given there,he is 80(eighty)today;he is no threat to anybody;this f*#!n joke!Give him break please!

And only one Nigerian - female.Do you know how many Nigerians passed through Bangkok Hilton - it counts in thousands! all of them for heroin,which was mostly destined to USA,

through secondary market in Lagos.Does it mean,that they caught all perpetrators already?I do not think so,they(DEA) have no clue - no names,no pictures(rasism?).

Maybe you should read. That old harmless geezer as you call him is Jimmy Bulger. He's implicated in 20 murders with another 10 floating in close association. He's a ruthless guy that apparently chopped bits and pieces off some people he was questioning. Oh look, here's another harmless older gent; K YA La Bo - A leader of the United Wa State Army (UWSA) in Burma is wanted in Thailand and the United States for conspiracy to possess and distribute methamphetamine. Yup, definitely peaceful people.

Sheesh. Read the bios first ok. Do the legwork, ok, then you can have a go at the DEA. I don't like the DEA, but the people on the most wanted listed are psychos and a menace to society.

[fantuzi]

Sheesh. Read the bios first ok. Do the legwork, ok, then you can have a go at the DEA. I don't like the DEA, but the people on the most wanted listed are psychos and a menace to society.

I wanted to make a point about his age - 80 this year.When he committed his crimes?In LOS statute of limitation is - 20 yrs.In LOS they declined to prosecute serial killer(bikini murderer) Charles Sobraj,who killed half a dozen or a dozen in Thailand and he was over 50 only,

but 20 yrs after.So,what he can do today to society.in ripe age of 80?Anyway - he is free,so,I wonder what he is doing now,so difficult to catch?About Nigerians - they are very hard nut for DEA,the fact which they admitted publicly-only one in this parade,probably lodged in LOS?

I will read whatever I will find about that geezer,so I will answer some questions myself.I have to wait till night,untill signal picks up. Thank you for your post.Anyway - I got interested about "geezer" - because I saw somebody of this features,mysterious person for me;but 80? max - 70.

I have sort of luck to such "missing" personalities.This year I met somebody ,known to me only from picture in similar photo- parade:beautifull woman,I consider her harmless.May be this geezer is the next one.This time - I will avoid him.Let others perform their duty,they are paid for job.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Alcohol or cough syrup. I am part Chickasaw. My father was born on the res and my brother is working for the Apache's now. Booze is a huge problem, as you well know. But it is legal...and for many, that is an unfortunate fact. You can not buy or even have in your possession any booze where my brother lives. So they show up at the hospital with a cough and try and get some cough syrup. Enforcement is a HUGE help there...without it, things would be out of control....

We agree that alcohol is a huge problem. Enforcement does help. The problem is the way enforcement takes place, what the focus is, and penalties for "breaking laws."

There has never been an honest discussion of what a drug is, what should be enforced, why, and what penalties should be imposed (if any).

I think honesty would make it totally clear that alcohol is our #1 drug problem worldwide.

The reason is that alcohol is legal, readily available (at all the bars in Thailand, for example), addictive, and its side effects are nasty (violence, liver problems, mental problems, etc).

I think if Thailand did an honest study of the problem, it would discover that alcohol is its #1 drug problem. It would discover that much of the violence/crime in society is linked to it.

[tomyummer]

Maybe the US needs to finalize things with their Mexican border first before coming way out over here.

Unless,... wait a minute! They're trying to find a reason to be more planted in Thailand prior to invading Burma with all their drugs, human rights violations, nuclear power plants and undemocratic ways! Oh right, and plus they want their hands on all the natural resources there. Sounds like Iraq in Southeast Asia to me, and Thailand will serve as the stepping stone.

Great.

Sorry you donot know much about Burma, the Chinese already have everything there. The US would not invade Burma, friends with China, do your research

All the more reason the U.S. is lickin' their chops. Why else would they give a darn about Aung San Suu Kyi? You really think they give a darn about Iraq's democracy and citizens spending over a trillion dollars on their 'freedom'? That's over $30,000 per citizen. Scare the world with WMD's, collect the oil. Burma's got gas reserves and timber, not to mention kilometers of prime coastal fishing zones.

They're waiting for a legitimate (at least in the eyes of the world) reason to go in. 'Invade' doesn't always mean directly and in broad daylight.

The past cyclone was the closest the U.S. came to air-dropping Big Macs and Smith & Wessons from the skies.

Sure, China is friends to all blacklisted countries of the U.S. You think that will stop the U.S. from trying to eventually get in?

You only see things on the surface my friend.

[Caliguy]

So many people are jealous of America. There's always going to be jealousy when you're the best

[eliminatethugsinthethief]

Very well and rightly said !!! History tells us that ---And who created Pablo Escobar ---and other Drug dealers in the South America ?? and if they are really serious why publicize in advance ? so the culprit

moves their drugs somewhereelse ? and you think they dont have informers in THaiPolice and in the administration? i saw Thia cops selling drugs through kids in the area of klongtoei--- ask any cabdrivers in Bkk the relationship between klongtoei drug scenario and local police --- cab drivers are the best source of information!

Yes. Follow the USA, their war on drugs has done great wonders for their country.

Everywhere the Americans arrive, drugs follow shortly after...

[eliminatethugsinthethief]

TO support your comment -i am quoting a report

"In 1998 the CIA finally admitted to its involvement in drug trafficking in the United States after years of federal investigation by the Kerry Congressional Committee. What the CIA admitted to was allowing cocaine trafficking to take place by Contras who were being supported by the CIA, using facilities and resources supplied by the US government, and preventing investigation into these activities by other agencies. This was done because funds for the support of militant groups in South America had been withdrawn by Congress so the CIA allowed the Contras to engage in the drug trade in the United States in order to make money to fund their military operations. If you are wondering why this was not covered more widely in the news during the Clinton Administration it may be because Arkansas was one of the major trafficking centers for the operations."

The truth is that the "War on Drugs" is more about international politics and control then it is about concern for the health of Americans. Drugs have been a major factor in the funding of revolutions for centuries. This is because drugs are a very high profit product that can be grown by even the most primitive people, and thus it’s very hard to control. In fact the American Revolution was funded by “drugs”. The main “drug” in the funding of the American Revolution was tobacco, but opium played a role as well. Tobacco was regulated by the King of England not only for health reasons, but also because he knew that it was funding American colonial “terrorism”. America was able to pay for French support in the war against England largely through tobacco money. At the time the American Revolution was also known as "The Tobacco Wars" and the area of Massachusetts Bay was known as "The Tobacco Coast".

Likewise opium and cocaine have also been products that have funded many wars and revolutions over the past few hundred years. In fact a common strategy of entities that wish to quickly gain large amounts of money is to sell drugs to their local population. This was done by the British from the 1600s through the 1800s, selling not only to their own citizens, but to all of the people within their empire as well as China. It is estimated that the opium trade was the largest single source of revenue for the British Crown during this time and was one of the major trades that enabled British Imperialism. In addition, during WWII the Japanese began heavy opium production and sales, selling both to their own people and to the Chinese. This opium trade raised significant amounts of money to fund the Japanese military.

so when I said who created Pablo Escobar -u got my point ?and see the movie "machette"--u will get an idea what happens in the USA and the Senators' involvement

Yes. Follow the USA, their war on drugs has done great wonders for their country.

Everywhere the Americans arrive, drugs follow shortly after...

[eliminatethugsinthethief]

These are hard facts. The CIA was forced to publish the information by the Congressional Committee when they were found of wrongdoing. You can find the official CIA version of the story here:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/cocaine/index.html

CNN, and other major news agencies ran only minor stories covering the revelation:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/03/cia.drugs/

TO support your comment -i am quoting a report

"In 1998 the CIA finally admitted to its involvement in drug trafficking in the United States after years of federal investigation by the Kerry Congressional Committee. What the CIA admitted to was allowing cocaine trafficking to take place by Contras who were being supported by the CIA, using facilities and resources supplied by the US government, and preventing investigation into these activities by other agencies. This was done because funds for the support of militant groups in South America had been withdrawn by Congress so the CIA allowed the Contras to engage in the drug trade in the United States in order to make money to fund their military operations. If you are wondering why this was not covered more widely in the news during the Clinton Administration it may be because Arkansas was one of the major trafficking centers for the operations."

The truth is that the "War on Drugs" is more about international politics and control then it is about concern for the health of Americans. Drugs have been a major factor in the funding of revolutions for centuries. This is because drugs are a very high profit product that can be grown by even the most primitive people, and thus it's very hard to control. In fact the American Revolution was funded by "drugs". The main "drug" in the funding of the American Revolution was tobacco, but opium played a role as well. Tobacco was regulated by the King of England not only for health reasons, but also because he knew that it was funding American colonial "terrorism". America was able to pay for French support in the war against England largely through tobacco money. At the time the American Revolution was also known as "The Tobacco Wars" and the area of Massachusetts Bay was known as "The Tobacco Coast".

Likewise opium and cocaine have also been products that have funded many wars and revolutions over the past few hundred years. In fact a common strategy of entities that wish to quickly gain large amounts of money is to sell drugs to their local population. This was done by the British from the 1600s through the 1800s, selling not only to their own citizens, but to all of the people within their empire as well as China. It is estimated that the opium trade was the largest single source of revenue for the British Crown during this time and was one of the major trades that enabled British Imperialism. In addition, during WWII the Japanese began heavy opium production and sales, selling both to their own people and to the Chinese. This opium trade raised significant amounts of money to fund the Japanese military.

so when I said who created Pablo Escobar -u got my point ?and see the movie "machette"--u will get an idea what happens in the USA and the Senators' involvement

Yes. Follow the USA, their war on drugs has done great wonders for their country.

Everywhere the Americans arrive, drugs follow shortly after...

[kuffki]

These are hard facts. The CIA was forced to publish the information by the Congressional Committee when they were found of wrongdoing. You can find the official CIA version of the story here:

http://www.cia.gov/c...aine/index.html

CNN, and other major news agencies ran only minor stories covering the revelation:

http://www.cnn.com/U...1/03/cia.drugs/

TO support your comment -i am quoting a report

"In 1998 the CIA finally admitted to its involvement in drug trafficking in the United States after years of federal investigation by the Kerry Congressional Committee. What the CIA admitted to was allowing cocaine trafficking to take place by Contras who were being supported by the CIA, using facilities and resources supplied by the US government, and preventing investigation into these activities by other agencies. This was done because funds for the support of militant groups in South America had been withdrawn by Congress so the CIA allowed the Contras to engage in the drug trade in the United States in order to make money to fund their military operations. If you are wondering why this was not covered more widely in the news during the Clinton Administration it may be because Arkansas was one of the major trafficking centers for the operations."

The truth is that the "War on Drugs" is more about international politics and control then it is about concern for the health of Americans. Drugs have been a major factor in the funding of revolutions for centuries. This is because drugs are a very high profit product that can be grown by even the most primitive people, and thus it's very hard to control. In fact the American Revolution was funded by "drugs". The main "drug" in the funding of the American Revolution was tobacco, but opium played a role as well. Tobacco was regulated by the King of England not only for health reasons, but also because he knew that it was funding American colonial "terrorism". America was able to pay for French support in the war against England largely through tobacco money. At the time the American Revolution was also known as "The Tobacco Wars" and the area of Massachusetts Bay was known as "The Tobacco Coast".

Likewise opium and cocaine have also been products that have funded many wars and revolutions over the past few hundred years. In fact a common strategy of entities that wish to quickly gain large amounts of money is to sell drugs to their local population. This was done by the British from the 1600s through the 1800s, selling not only to their own citizens, but to all of the people within their empire as well as China. It is estimated that the opium trade was the largest single source of revenue for the British Crown during this time and was one of the major trades that enabled British Imperialism. In addition, during WWII the Japanese began heavy opium production and sales, selling both to their own people and to the Chinese. This opium trade raised significant amounts of money to fund the Japanese military.

so when I said who created Pablo Escobar -u got my point ?and see the movie "machette"--u will get an idea what happens in the USA and the Senators' involvement

Yes. Follow the USA, their war on drugs has done great wonders for their country.

Everywhere the Americans arrive, drugs follow shortly after...

Not that it matters, but i thought we were talking about DEA not CIA

[craigt3365]

Alcohol or cough syrup. I am part Chickasaw. My father was born on the res and my brother is working for the Apache's now. Booze is a huge problem, as you well know. But it is legal...and for many, that is an unfortunate fact. You can not buy or even have in your possession any booze where my brother lives. So they show up at the hospital with a cough and try and get some cough syrup. Enforcement is a HUGE help there...without it, things would be out of control....

We agree that alcohol is a huge problem. Enforcement does help. The problem is the way enforcement takes place, what the focus is, and penalties for "breaking laws."

There has never been an honest discussion of what a drug is, what should be enforced, why, and what penalties should be imposed (if any).

I think honesty would make it totally clear that alcohol is our #1 drug problem worldwide.

The reason is that alcohol is legal, readily available (at all the bars in Thailand, for example), addictive, and its side effects are nasty (violence, liver problems, mental problems, etc).

I think if Thailand did an honest study of the problem, it would discover that alcohol is its #1 drug problem. It would discover that much of the violence/crime in society is linked to it.

I think you are right on, my friend....

[certified]

The real issue here is that most expats don't want to be subjected to the long arm of the law coming from America.Wasn't Pattaya basically created for American service men? If the Thais want help from America to keep Pattaya clean what's the problem? IF you don't like America and Americans an their influence in Pattaya, go start your own enclave.

[BaronCasey]

How inappropriate. The Taliban had almost eliminated opium production in Afghanistan before the U.S. led invasion. Then the CIA permitted fresh cultivation in order to win local people over, and production went up 900%. What a great track record for the DEA - who's overseas operations are supervised by the CIA.

Really? I just found out the Taliban are using opium production to fund their terrorist operations (and to buy weapons). Did they have a change of heart prompted by the CIA? Not so sure about that, but I could be wrong....

I guess this opium is a real problem there...corruption of government officials, etc. Sad....

On July 27, 2000, the Taliban issued a decree banningcultivation. By February 2001, productionhad been reduced from 12,600 acres to only 17 acres. Since the U.S.led invasion, the Taliban have been too busy to police the local warlords, sothese warlords recommenced production, and did so with CIA approval because theCIA needs their help in catching the bad guys. The Taliban – needing funds tofight the invaders had little choice but to join in and oversee the growing ofit too. Annual production has gone from 17 acres (a very small farm indeed) tonow being worth more than 60 Billion U.S. dollars each year. And this accountsfor more than 90% of the worlds production.

So, yes they had ‘a change of heart’ because theyneeded the money. By the way, Taliban are not ‘terrorists’ – they’re a localpeople fighting the white invaders.

[BaronCasey]

How inappropriate. The Taliban had almost eliminated opium production in Afghanistan before the U.S. led invasion. Then the CIA permitted fresh cultivation in order to win local people over, and production went up 900%. What a great track record for the DEA - who's overseas operations are supervised by the CIA.

you have a connection in Taliban to confirm this? or only relying on Anti-American propaganda from Taliban. How exactly Taliban funds all its operations and arms buying? Must be money from the sale of camels

No connection in the Taliban, I get my information from the United Nations. The Taliban banned it in the year 2000 and practically eliminated it. The CIA told the local warlords (who's help they hoped to get) that they could grow it again (this is a fact that has been stated in British Politics on TV in recent years). But now the Taliban need the money to fight the invaders etc so they now permit growth of it too, and get to control much of it.

[craigt3365]

I hear what you are saying. The US kinda traded one problem for another. But being a worker in the World Trade Center, I really don't care about them. They obviously did not care about us. I would kinda label them terrorists for allowing bin Laden to hide there and to protect him...IMHO.

I'm sure the CIA is aware of what is going on...and looks the other way. But in now way do they officially support it. Just deal with it....

Iraq and Afghanistan are a real mess...with no easy solution!

P.S. I did see the sign for this by the N. Pattaya bus station. It was in both Thai and English.

[BaronCasey]

Alcohol or cough syrup. I am part Chickasaw. My father was born on the res and my brother is working for the Apache's now. Booze is a huge problem, as you well know. But it is legal...and for many, that is an unfortunate fact. You can not buy or even have in your possession any booze where my brother lives. So they show up at the hospital with a cough and try and get some cough syrup. Enforcement is a HUGE help there...without it, things would be out of control....

We agree that alcohol is a huge problem. Enforcement does help. The problem is the way enforcement takes place, what the focus is, and penalties for "breaking laws."

There has never been an honest discussion of what a drug is, what should be enforced, why, and what penalties should be imposed (if any).

I think honesty would make it totally clear that alcohol is our #1 drug problem worldwide.

The reason is that alcohol is legal, readily available (at all the bars in Thailand, for example), addictive, and its side effects are nasty (violence, liver problems, mental problems, etc).

I think if Thailand did an honest study of the problem, it would discover that alcohol is its #1 drug problem. It would discover that much of the violence/crime in society is linked to it.

I think you are right on, my friend....

I am an Alcoholic (I no longer drink thanks to A.A. and I've never been more relaxed in my life now). I can tell you for a fact, that in pharmaceutical and clinical terms, that alcohol is actually classified as a drug. Specifically, it's classified as a Sedative. Alcohol dependency is treated in the same manner and in the same establishments as any other drug, whether it's a narcotic or a prescription drug. Society don't like to think of it as a drug because we don't like the term 'drug'. My heart goes out to races of people such as the North American Indians and the Australian Aborigines because they have far far higher rates of alcoholism due to the fact that they are far more likely (genetically measurable and therefore quantifiable) to be unable to physically process alcohol in the same way that non-alcoholic 'white' people do, and this leads to very fast (if not immediate) addiction, irrespective of the terrible mental-health consequences.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

...the terrible mental-health consequences.

I'm pretty embarrassed by most of what I've done whilst too drunk too function. And by most of what I've done with the full intention of claiming later on that I was too drunk to function.

Alcohol should be Prohibited. Why haven't they thought to try this yet? They could give it a shot at least...what's the worst that could happen....

A Great Experiment, perhaps...how will we know if we don't at least try Prohibition, if we don't at least give it a chance to see if it'll work despite the gaping illogicality of it all. I guess we'll die wondering...gutless governments, too scared to even experiment with idiocy.