Pigs 101 (A Start)

[IsaanAussie]

It is simple. You sell what the customer wants. Each is different. In my case, I sold everything bar the gall bladder and the digestive tract contents to chefs in Bangkok. I also sold primal cuts to different customers, both expat and Thai, and the organs to villagers, head feet and tails to the monks to on-sell for offerings ceremonies. I made bacon from belly, middles and back cuts.....

Jakes customer base is different to the one I had. When we butchered a pig it was Western style primal cuts, bones in, again different cuts to most slaughter block operators.

My point is, Jakes description is of what he sells to HIS market. I bet yours is different. Perhaps if you describe what you are selling and who is buying it, then we might be able to respond to your questions more meaningfully to you.

[slapout]

IAfter reading on this topic for the past few days regarding weights, meat, fat, heads, ears etc I was afraid to ask if anyone made soap from their butchered pigs, but I will ask just to see what response I get and just how thrifty some of you people are.

[IsaanAussie]

Thought about soap but never did it. Did have a market for lard though so we rendered the fat for that. Mate if I could have bottled their burps I would have. Composted manure was a major earner meeting about 25% of the feed bill.

[fang37]

IMHO, you guys have the most informative, detailed & interesting thread on TVF.

[thoongfoned]

IAfter reading on this topic for the past few days regarding weights, meat, fat, heads, ears etc I was afraid to ask if anyone made soap from their butchered pigs, but I will ask just to see what response I get and just how thrifty some of you people are.

got a man from Italy that comes to the village every year, his brother at home makes high end soap from the human after birth stuff he get from hospitals......... well that's what he said...... he was telling me that we should look into making soap with after birth from the pigs, something that I have not looked into.........

[Allgeier]

My point is, Jakes description is of what he sells to HIS market. I bet yours is different. Perhaps if you describe what you are selling and who is buying it, then we might be able to respond to your questions more meaningfully to you.

Maybe jake call everythink meat. But for me i can see a differant between fat, skin and bone. I am not sure if he can. Because it is impossible a 100 kg pig have 70 kg of pure meat. This 70 kg is only possible if he count also the bone and the fat and the skin and call them meat. But fat is not meat. In my eyes.

[pigeonjake]

My point is, Jakes description is of what he sells to HIS market. I bet yours is different. Perhaps if you describe what you are selling and who is buying it, then we might be able to respond to your questions more meaningfully to you.

Maybe jake call everythink meat. But for me i can see a differant between fat, skin and bone. I am not sure if he can. Because it is impossible a 100 kg pig have 70 kg of pure meat. This 70 kg is only possible if he count also the bone and the fat and the skin and call them meat. But fat is not meat. In my eyes.

there is no talking to you,

thats the second time you have called me a lier,

ive been in this game for a long time, my grandfather in england was a pig farmer for over 40 years i know how to get a pig to weight,

if you are feeding ram as i suspect you are you wont get the meat,

i know the difference between meat and bone you fool,

i leave the skin and fat on my meat because this is how people want it, i give people my wifes customers what they want,

the ribs as i have said before are 100bht a kilo, the bones she sell to the noodle shops and the inside sell to who ever wants them, the heads feet and tail are orderd all the time, they order them and my wife has a list who is next when we slaughter,

noiw take it from me this is the last time im ever talking to you,,

jake

[Allgeier]

And why i must ask for this answer so many times:

i leave the skin and fat on my meat because this is how people want it

If you write this befor all the writing yesterday and today would not be nessesary. Gratulatation for your Grangfather but the pigs 40 years ago maybe not some like today.

Maybe the next time we should ask your wife.

Fool or not. I not call you a liar but it's impossible a pig with 100 kg have 70 kg of meat. And doesnt matter if the grandfather was a pigfarmer or not. If you write from the beginning you selling the meat with fat and skin i not wasting my time for stupid question to get more background for your 7000 Bath profit per pig.

Maybe somebody else here have also 7000 bath profit per pig or all fool ?

[slapout]

I think some of the posts, questions , etc on meat, fat, bone, weights, etc were not too clear in what was being asked for as far as info. This may be due to English not being first language, as to terms used for meat for sale. etc.

First live weight ,

then hanging half ( normally without skin nor head)

For beef you have aging time weight loss (not a lot but there)

then you have packer trim which still has a good amount of fat attached

boned, most fat removed thus its called a retail cut ( supermarket display )

As mentioned most cuts are made as per what customer wants or the business folds very quickly. Not being argumentative, just my take on some misunderstanding of what has been posted, indicated,

good luck and good fortune to all trying to make a go of a very competative, market which is controled by some virtual monopolies in given areas.

[CLW]

Today I asked my professor for animal science, he's expert for swine production.

Some of his answers:

-modern genetic pig is fattened until 100kg because after that the FCR, ADG decreasing and more fat growth

- from a 100kg live weight you will get 75% pork parts for sale for a total of ~8500 THB.

- from this 75%, lean meat is around 45%

- the price for 25kg piglet (quite big, I have to ask him more details) is 2200 THB

[thoongfoned]

Today I asked my professor for animal science, he's expert for swine production.

Some of his answers:

-modern genetic pig is fattened until 100kg because after that the FCR, ADG decreasing and more fat growth

- from a 100kg live weight you will get 75% pork parts for sale for a total of ~8500 THB.

- from this 75%, lean meat is around 45%

- the price for 25kg piglet (quite big, I have to ask him more details) is 2200 THB

good day clw, could you ask your professor afew of questions for me.? what would be the quickest amount of days from birth to 100kg that he has read about, seen. how many days to the 25kg mark in piglets .top end daily weight gain in finishers? what would be a good starting weight to wean the piglet from the mum, saying piglet is already eating food and drinking water?. these would be all top end pigs not the average numbers please.

Edited November 14, 2015 by thoongfoned

[Allgeier]

Today I asked my professor for animal science, he's expert for swine production.

Some of his answers:

-modern genetic pig is fattened until 100kg because after that the FCR, ADG decreasing and more fat growth

- from a 100kg live weight you will get 75% pork parts for sale for a total of ~8500 THB.

- from this 75%, lean meat is around 45%

- the price for 25kg piglet (quite big, I have to ask him more details) is 2200 THB

S = 60 % and more

E = 55% and more, but less than 60%

U = 50 % and more, but less than 55%

R = 45 % and more but less than 50%

O =40 % and more but less than 45%

P =less than 40 %

This is about the lean meat klassifizierung in Europa.

When your professoer told you 45% lean meat than is this very less of meat.

This picture i made here in the village from at a lokal pigfarmer. In my eyes is this a "S or E" swine. And "E" have also "undernumber". Like E1 or E2. My pig not look so good like this one. But there could not tell me what kind of breed this pig is.

And the price for piglet on the web is normaly not for 25 kg pig. Its for 16 kg pig.

And this 8500 Bath you get only if you can sell the bones, fat, skin, leg, head, bacon, for the same price like the meat. And who will buy the bones for the same pice like the meat? Nobody.

[IsaanAussie]

The usual classification I use is body score. 1 to 5 which is purely a visual check. I haven't been involved in the more scientific analysis of fat content and haven't seen such methods in Isaan. Too small an operation I suppose. Still times change.

Interesting to see if such methods have been adopted in Thailand in the large corporate operations. But I doubt they will be on farms in my area, simply no need as customers will tell you if there is too much fat content. Choice of breed and dietary control are about all I could do to control the meat quality.

I did however measure moisture loss etc to check PSE which was a way of ensuring that I shipped good pork to my chef customers. Probably the largest issue being the control of post slaughter temperature. pH changes is another simple check you do when storing meat.

What I have noticed on this thread over recent months is an increase in the number of larger contract grow-out operations as opposed to the small farrow to finish like mine or the small batch growing farms we started with.

[KC 71]

One thing i have noticed here is that moo paa( wild pig ) tastes really good in comparison to the usual . Is there any reason for that ?

[Allgeier]

One thing i have noticed here is that moo paa( wild pig ) tastes really good in comparison to the usual . Is there any reason for that ?

How you cook the pork to get a differant taste?

For me, if the pork is cooked the thaiway it's doesnt matter what kind auf meat. Because from the chilli, sugar, glutamat or another bottles sauce everythink taste some.

But to answer your question:M

Maybe its tast differant because there not get commercial feed, can run around and get also gras and bananaleafs for eat.

But who will pay this?

[CLW]

Certain race of wild pig fetch a very high price so if you know your market it's maybe worth it

[RedBullHorn]

Today I asked my professor for animal science, he's expert for swine production.

Some of his answers:

-modern genetic pig is fattened until 100kg because after that the FCR, ADG decreasing and more fat growth

- from a 100kg live weight you will get 75% pork parts for sale for a total of ~8500 THB.

- from this 75%, lean meat is around 45%

- the price for 25kg piglet (quite big, I have to ask him more details) is 2200 THB

good day clw, could you ask your professor afew of questions for me.? what would be the quickest amount of days from birth to 100kg that he has read about, seen. how many days to the 25kg mark in piglets .top end daily weight gain in finishers? what would be a good starting weight to wean the piglet from the mum, saying piglet is already eating food and drinking water?. these would be all top end pigs not the average numbers please.

I asked him the same questions about catfish farming and he said he is familiar with all my questions posted in an another thread..... he hasn't a clue... wait until he put in the farming capital to do it...until then... keep attending classes...

Note: If members were to read this thread from the page 1... you will know who is who... and to you too Sir... RIP...

Edited November 19, 2015 by RedBullHorn

[CLW]

What is wrong about what I wrote, can you tell me?

Moreover, no need to insult me, okay? How no clue?

Yes, maybe no practical experience. But hey, I'm still studying and just at the beginning.

And the professor's who have been 40 years in business also have no clue, or what?

[CLW]

Today I asked my professor for animal science, he's expert for swine production.

Some of his answers:

-modern genetic pig is fattened until 100kg because after that the FCR, ADG decreasing and more fat growth

- from a 100kg live weight you will get 75% pork parts for sale for a total of ~8500 THB.

- from this 75%, lean meat is around 45%

- the price for 25kg piglet (quite big, I have to ask him more details) is 2200 THB

good day clw, could you ask your professor afew of questions for me.? what would be the quickest amount of days from birth to 100kg that he has read about, seen. how many days to the 25kg mark in piglets .top end daily weight gain in finishers? what would be a good starting weight to wean the piglet from the mum, saying piglet is already eating food and drinking water?. these would be all top end pigs not the average numbers please.

I asked him the same questions about catfish farming and he said he is familiar with all my questions posted in an another thread..... he hasn't a clue... wait until he put in the farming capital to do it...until then... keep attending classes...

Note: If members were to read this thread from the page 1... you will know who is who... and to you too Sir... RIP...

Also I never had any doubts about the knowledge of you and other farmers on here.

So why do you? I just posted some general information, who might be helpful and informative for others.

You know everything since you were born, or what?

Next time if you don't have to contribute something useful, just shut up!!!!

[KC 71]

One thing i have noticed here is that moo paa( wild pig ) tastes really good in comparison to the usual . Is there any reason for that ?

How you cook the pork to get a differant taste?

For me, if the pork is cooked the thaiway it's doesnt matter what kind auf meat. Because from the chilli, sugar, glutamat or another bottles sauce everythink taste some.

But to answer your question:M

Maybe its tast differant because there not get commercial feed, can run around and get also gras and bananaleafs for eat.

But who will pay this?

[KC 71]

Its 130bht a kilo for wild pig here in ChiangRai so not too expensive.

I think you are right, beacause they can have a better life,they taste better too !

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Before looking or reading - there is no exact answer that is always true!

Attached is a file that gives a rough idea of week-by-week farrow to finish pig feed consumption and weight gain.

If someone can tell me how to load a xlsx spreadsheet I will attach it so all can use it.

Second thing: Yield

I will only go as far as abattoir. AND this depends on which rib you cut the pig.

A 100 kilo pig will yield about 73% in primals which is 73 kilo

From that

32.28% Ham or 23.6 kilo

35.61% Center or 26.0 kilo

32.29% Shoulder or 23.5 kilo

A primal is the six major cuts from a pig: 2 shoulders, 2 centers and 2 hams. Yes some countries make the belly a separate primal.

If you want more detail on retails yields so my webpage

http://www.thaiporkgroup.com/yield.html

I hope this helps your series of conversations.

[thoongfoned]

Before looking or reading - there is no exact answer that is always true!

Attached is a file that gives a rough idea of week-by-week farrow to finish pig feed consumption and weight gain.

If someone can tell me how to load a xlsx spreadsheet I will attach it so all can use it.

Second thing: Yield

I will only go as far as abattoir. AND this depends on which rib you cut the pig.

A 100 kilo pig will yield about 73% in primals which is 73 kilo

From that

32.28% Ham or 23.6 kilo

35.61% Center or 26.0 kilo

32.29% Shoulder or 23.5 kilo

A primal is the six major cuts from a pig: 2 shoulders, 2 centers and 2 hams. Yes some countries make the belly a separate primal.

If you want more detail on retails yields so my webpage

http://www.thaiporkgroup.com/yield.html

I hope this helps your series of conversations.

thanks, the reason I asked the professor about gain was because days to 100kg seem to be all over the shop ie. from birth. some say 120 - 150 a vast difference.. looking at day 7 (1 week) you can achieve 5.7 kg ? is this right, what would be the birth weight on said piglet?

I would say that at day 14 (2 week) would be good to have 5.7kg average over different litters.? im sure that not even the top 1 % of piglets could get 5kg in the first week.... ?

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Yes you are right, it is just a spread out chart over a life time 100 kg. There will be gaps that will not be right. Use it as a guide not a Bible.

[thoongfoned]

thanks, just one more pick of you brains......... whats the fastest you have or have seen from birth to 100kg in Thailand?

[pigeonjake]

Before looking or reading - there is no exact answer that is always true!

Attached is a file that gives a rough idea of week-by-week farrow to finish pig feed consumption and weight gain.

If someone can tell me how to load a xlsx spreadsheet I will attach it so all can use it.

Second thing: Yield

I will only go as far as abattoir. AND this depends on which rib you cut the pig.

A 100 kilo pig will yield about 73% in primals which is 73 kilo

From that

32.28% Ham or 23.6 kilo

35.61% Center or 26.0 kilo

32.29% Shoulder or 23.5 kilo

A primal is the six major cuts from a pig: 2 shoulders, 2 centers and 2 hams. Yes some countries make the belly a separate primal.

If you want more detail on retails yields so my webpage

http://www.thaiporkgroup.com/yield.html

I hope this helps your series of conversations.

great post,

another farmer who get over 70kilo of MEAT,

if you feed your pigs right it is easy to achieve this, if you feed ram and scraps forget it,

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Fastest? Cannot answer as I am primarily a piglet farm. The sattelite farms that raise for us raise for consistent meat so I don't know. I count on give or take five months. If you start with a bad piglet you will pay the price of needing more time and feed.

Let me say this please: There are three things that you need for a product that you are selling to good butchers who cut for retail. I am not talking about selling to the village market.

1) A good pedigree piglet when you start.

2) Consistent hight quality feed that is made for each stage of life.

3) Loving care with living quarters that are not cramped (a cramped pig will not grow).

As far as the feed goes. What you put into them is what they are going to taste like. If you sell to butchers who know pigs and have quality customers every pig better be top quality. That quality from the last pig, to the current pig to the next pig better be the same!

If you sell to someone who will make salami the pig better not have been even close to free range. Why? Trichinosis, trichinellosis or trichiniasis The process of making salami does not get hot enough to kill the parasit. You leave a pig out in a field and they can scavage dead birds, rodents and other bad stuff that is going to stay in their system.

The stats I gave you are based on averaging my post abattoir pigs over a period of time. The numbers never go below 70%.

[Allgeier]

A 100 kilo pig will yield about 73% in primals which is 73 kilo

From that

32.28% Ham or 23.6 kilo

35.61% Center or 26.0 kilo

32.29% Shoulder or 23.5 kilo

The Ham, Center and Shoulder are with Fat, Skin and Bones or not?

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Yes, post abattoir is the full primal with skin, fat and bone. The offal is removed, the blood out, the head off. The trotters are still on. This is then called a primal. It is the way we sell pigs to the butchers. It is the way we all pick up our pigs from the abattoir.

If you process below that level the next level down is selling sub-primals which is what you are (I think) talking about. At this level the meat is processed to what you could call a "bulk family pack" or finishing butcher. When going down to this level you adjust the price of the meat to account for yield at that level. If you want more detail on retails yields go to my webpage http://www.thaiporkg....com/yield.html

But this depends on what you are looking for. At the primal level we can sell the skin, we can sell the fat or use it in charcuterie artisan products. We sell the bones. We sell all of this along with the offal, blook and head. The big processors make fairly good money from this stuff. I am small but I have markets for all of this BUT that is not the way I sell pigs.

I sell full pigs cut into the 6 major primals (ocassionally join orders and sell 1/2 carcass).

Potentially I may soon sell some sub-primals also but only on a full or 1/2 pig basis (buyers buys all of the sub-primals). I will just adjust the price including the extra processing for the butcher to take the primal to sub-primal.

[Allgeier]

Yes, post abattoir is the full primal with skin, fat and bone. The offal is removed, the blood out, the head off. The trotters are still on. This is then called a primal. It is the way we sell pigs to the butchers. It is the way we all pick up our pigs from the abattoir.

Hello Chiang MaipigFarmer

This is a clear answer. Thank You