Bangkok’s CentralWorld Reopens Today

[canuckamuck]

Here's a photo of the ladies parking lot

[moe666]

firstly, HOW IN hel_l DID THEY MANAGE TO PULL THAT OFF, I cant believe its 80% open - AMAZING THAILAND

& Secondly

Awesome - Ice Skating! What we need now is a couple of TV Forum Ice Hockey teams & lets get the blood flowing .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-25s4uwFQ

I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out

[HereIAm]

Is this a post about CentralWorld partially reopening???

I must have taken a turn down the wrong street...

Ha ha, no you didn't. Do remember the Central World has hundreds of different shops addressing different requirements, through meandering corridors and escalators. Like this thread meanders....

[phetaroi]

In a Western country - or in China - it would never have been permitted to happen in the first place.

I am assuming you are either a westerner or a chinese. Either way, would be good if you left this attitude back home (wherever that is) before you come to Thailand. The west and china have their traditions just as all countries have theirs. In some countries public anger is not managed well, for various reasons that a visiting tourist carrying a baggage of blinkers may never perceive, let alone understand. In China, public anger is not allowed. You have your Tiananmen. Try to boast about that. Or, try to boast about the cops that kicked a frustrated black in Los Angeles. Talk of anger management. Maybe the mismanagement of Katrina Hurricane victims' funds might help you think about those that are victimised. In short, it's better not to gloat about your own elitism in comparison with others. Underneath our clothes we all have our warts.

While I understand what you are saying, what the other poster wrote is not about elitism. I was living in Bangkok during the red shirt demonstrations, and in America no protest groups would have been allowed to virtually shut down the main shopping district for two months, nor burn down 31 buildings with immunity. The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job. Meanwhile, the Thai police were, essentially, on the "other side". In other words, it wasn't just that a riot broke out and 31 building were set afire...because yes, riots can happen anywhere...it was that nobody was really in control for days and weeks at a time. That's anarchy. I can see little in place that would prevent it all from happening again.

[britainmal]

Just amazing they've got so much rebuilt/reopen already. In a western country the company would still be trying to get a construction/rebuild permit, tied up in court over claims/insurance, etc.

I agree with you there!

[phetaroi]

I fully agree that you, like all else, have a right to "suggest that the Thai authorities were slow and incompetent." I felt that way myself at the start of the mayhem. But, as things unfolded, we could see that there was a different way that the Thais went about that terrible problem of April-May 2010. We saw it all :- they allowed the protesters to stay in the hope of winning a peaceful resolution, they provided medical support and sanitation. Remember how even the closed malls allowed the reds unrestricted use of toilets ? Now compare this with how other countries would have reacted in a similar situation.

In Malaysia they gassed and hosed out a protest last year, if you happen to know. So you are right in a different way that in the west or in China this wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place. But you, like so many, ignore the fact that this is Thailand. This is one of the very few places in the world where the government approaches political confrontations with domestic peace as the main objective. They try their best to avoid confrontation. It's been that way throughout Thai history. Viewed through western eyes you would see it as irrational, or pusillanimous, or just plain absurd.

But I believe the rest of the world has something to learn from the Thai way. And that can happen only if you leave your baggage home and desist from gloating about the "superior" standards of the west or the iron-handed ways of China. Funny you bracketed them together.

I suggest you be given the award for most naive poster on the forum.

It was all about what one power groups (the army) and another power groups (the police) were WILLING to do...not some plan to allow peaceful protests.

And if you think that allowing and facilitating protests is the way the Thais generally operate, I suggest you down south and talk to some of the Muslims that were put in that truck by the Thai army a few years back.

[balo]

Does anyone know if TK Park (Thailand Knowledge Park) is also open.

The library in the 8/F of Central World.

Thanks.

I saw some people walking up there so maybe they have opened.

Still many shops closed today , and forget about the Cash Voucher Double Value.

According to the ad in BK Post they would sell 1000 baht vouchers for 6 days but they managed to get rid of it after 30 minutes......

Edited September 28, 2010 by balo

[Huey]

Great hockey video. Philadelphia Flyers. In the Broad Street Bullies' days, the fight would never have lasted that long.

Thai politics only confuses me as far as who's who. I try to stay away from discussions about it cause there are too many players on the government level. It seems simple enough, but there are many curve balls to contend with. I coulda played in the majors, but I couldn't hit the curve ball.

Philly in the house home town favourite for me!

[jfchandler]

I think folks should keep the "miracle in Thailand" talk in check...

The part of CentralWorld that's reopening wasn't rebuilt... and for the most part didn't burn in the original fire. The section reopening, as another poster already pointed out, probably mostly suffered only smoke and water damage.

The part that really burned and collapsed, the Zen Dept. store that's closest to the Skytrain line, isn't reopening and hasn't even started on reconstruction, as best as I can see...

I'd say the greater "miracle" here is a country that can't stop one of its international venues from being torched, and then once it was torched, didn't have the infrastructure or functioning government services (fire-police) in place to stop the fire before it totally gutted one whole end of the mall...

[whybother]

I think folks should keep the "miracle in Thailand" talk in check...

The part of CentralWorld that's reopening wasn't rebuilt... and for the most part didn't burn in the original fire. The section reopening, as another poster already pointed out, probably mostly suffered only smoke and water damage.

The part that really burned and collapsed, the Zen Dept. store that's closest to the Skytrain line, isn't reopening and hasn't even started on reconstruction, as best as I can see...

I'd say the greater "miracle" here is a country that can't stop one of its international venues from being torched, and then once it was torched, didn't have the infrastructure or functioning government services (fire-police) in place to stop the fire before it totally gutted one whole end of the mall...

Pretty hard to get the fire brigade in there while the army and red shirts are shooting at each other.

[jfchandler]

As I said... lack of FUNCTIONING government services...

And you forget about the Thai police... Were they the ones shooting at the Reds, shooting at the Army, or just looking the other way at the whole affair?

BTW, no one expects firemen to go into a gunfire laden area... But one should reasonably expect a functioning government to prevent the heart of its capital city from becoming a gunfire-laden area...

[whybother]

As I said... lack of FUNCTIONING government services...

And you forget about the Thai police... Were they the ones shooting at the Reds, shooting at the Army, or just looking the other way at the whole affair?

BTW, no one expects firemen to go into a gunfire laden area... But one should reasonably expect a functioning government to prevent the heart of its capital city from becoming a gunfire-laden area...

One would also expect that protesters fighting for democracy and a better deal for the poor wouldn't have brought guns along to a "peaceful protest".

What was the government to do? Not allow the protest to start? That's good for democracy isn't it.

The red shirts were given the opportunity to protest, but that wasn't enough for them. They pushed and prodded at every step. What the red shirts ended up with was 90 dead, 1800 injured, and 30 building burnt down. They got what they wanted. They got what they preached from the start. "Bring your bottles to burn Bangkok".

[jfchandler]

Won't argue with most of that... agree with most... although at some point it clearly stopped being a "protest" and became something much worse...

While we're talking about the poor, let's not forget all the hundreds/thousands of shop workers who were employed in Central World, and Siam Square and elsewhere who lost their jobs -- not to mention the small business owners who lost their investments -- as a result of the whole thing...

[tomyummer]

Maybe we should get the guys who rebuilt CentralWorld to finish off the athlete village and sports facilities for the Commonwealth Games in Delhi!

Sorry, not available. They're starting the city planning for the 2018 World Expo in Chonburi.

[tomyummer]

Here's a photo of the ladies parking lot

First, let me say,..."Hey that's insulting to women, watch it bud!"

But let me finish by saying...."Freakin' funny, dam_n hilarious!"

And a "thanks, I needed that!"

[frenchfarangjomtien]

I wish this mall to have more customers than in the past as it seemed a bit quiet.

Central world plaza is in my opinion a lot better than PARAGON, but i still don't understand why people keep going to this overcrowded PARAGON department store ?!

[HereIAm]

While I understand what you are saying, what the other poster wrote is not about elitism. I was living in Bangkok during the red shirt demonstrations, and in America no protest groups would have been allowed to virtually shut down the main shopping district for two months, nor burn down 31 buildings with immunity. The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job. Meanwhile, the Thai police were, essentially, on the "other side". In other words, it wasn't just that a riot broke out and 31 building were set afire...because yes, riots can happen anywhere...it was that nobody was really in control for days and weeks at a time. That's anarchy. I can see little in place that would prevent it all from happening again.

You are comparing apples and oranges, aren't you, contrasting Thailand with America ? This is just what I said, that it is pointless applying American standards to what was quintessentially a Thai situation. The political difficulties and near impossibilities in this part of the world are too complex for the average westerner to comprehend -- as your posts illustrate. Do you see how well you defeat your own argument by saying on the one hand that "in America no protest groups would have been allowed" to do this sort of thing and then accepting that "The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job." When you say "this wouldn't have been permitted in America" (or China, I still enjoy that bracketing) you evidently mean that western standards of democracy and law enforcement (or Chinese methods of force) are so well developed that in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence but even if they did authorities would have used all means to disperse them and bring a swift end to the violence. The army does not interfere in politics.

But what do you do when it does ? Thailand is not the sort of democracy as most people understand democracy. The army is a law unto itself. As you admit, and as everyone could see, the Thai authorities were presented with a different challenge with law enforcing personnel owing allegiance to different powers holding the country to ransom. A result again of the power struggles going on there. To not consider this challenge and then to belittle the Thais by gloating about America is silly. Given the intrinsic challenges of the situation, and the dicey power play, the government did its best to keep things from spinning out of control, although it did take an agonisingly long time for the end game to happen.

Incidentally when floods ravaged the city I live in 5 years ago I heard the local media and intellectuals screaming this wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the west -- until Katrina set the record straight. The west has its advantage of wealth and high standards of education, and the extensive reach of this education into the masses, to thank for such domestic violence not happening there. Mostly. Must you gloat ?

[HereIAm]

I suggest you be given the award for most naive poster on the forum.

It was all about what one power groups (the army) and another power groups (the police) were WILLING to do...not some plan to allow peaceful protests.

And if you think that allowing and facilitating protests is the way the Thais generally operate, I suggest you down south and talk to some of the Muslims that were put in that truck by the Thai army a few years back.

Nothing new here. As for the muslims that were put in a truck, now THAT was a departure from Thai tradition. Whodunnit by the way ?

[Ch23]

Brilliant, one of the best shopping malls i have ever been too. hope SFX world is just as good. ice skating sounds immense too. i think there's only espenlade, ratachada and some old place miles away around bkk. iam guessing its a sub zero rink?? never got why they burnt it down, but anyway its back. great!!

[Buchholz]

once it was torched, didn't have the infrastructure or functioning government services (fire-police) in place to stop the fire before it totally gutted one whole end of the mall...

Pretty hard to get the fire brigade in there while the army and red shirts are shooting at each other.

The mindset and policies of the Red Shirts regarding fire-fighting equipment in Bangkok, Ubon Ratchatani, and Chiang Mai:

Protesters set fire to an empty police bus and vandalised army vehicles and a fire truck

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/291985#ixzz10rWqY74R

“Four men threw two bombs into the [government] building and when the fire trucks came they threatened them with guns,” he said.

The government building was completely gutted by the fire.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/36063/

This fire truck was set upon by protesters and torched just 100m from the fire in Ubon Ratchatani.

http://memock.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/ubon-ratchathani-provincial-office-gutted-by-fire/

A fire truck is set on fire by a supporter of the Bangkok anti-government protesters in Chiang Mai, Thailand, on 19 May 2010. According to local media, protesters burned city hall buildings in the five north-eastern provinces of Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Ubon Ratchathani and Udom Thani, and in Chiang Mai after the movement's leaders were arrested in the capital.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/features/article_1557062.php/In-Pictures-Bangkok-Political-Unrest-May-19th?page=13

[wasabi]

Remember...

This ladies parking area takes my particular attention. Is it because ladies need way much more space to park a car than men or is it for safety reasons, cared to be attacked in the parking...??? Anyone can lighten me?

I was wondering the same thing? How do they enforce it too? And yes this begs the question about ladyboys.

[Deeral]

To put this in perspective one should look at he family who own central and the influence tey exert on the government and those with power. The burning of this place was in all probability politically motivated.

[phetaroi]

You are comparing apples and oranges, aren't you, contrasting Thailand with America ? This is just what I said, that it is pointless applying American standards to what was quintessentially a Thai situation. The political difficulties and near impossibilities in this part of the world are too complex for the average westerner to comprehend -- as your posts illustrate. Do you see how well you defeat your own argument by saying on the one hand that "in America no protest groups would have been allowed" to do this sort of thing and then accepting that "The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job." When you say "this wouldn't have been permitted in America" (or China, I still enjoy that bracketing) you evidently mean that western standards of democracy and law enforcement (or Chinese methods of force) are so well developed that in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence but even if they did authorities would have used all means to disperse them and bring a swift end to the violence. The army does not interfere in politics.

But what do you do when it does ? Thailand is not the sort of democracy as most people understand democracy. The army is a law unto itself. As you admit, and as everyone could see, the Thai authorities were presented with a different challenge with law enforcing personnel owing allegiance to different powers holding the country to ransom. A result again of the power struggles going on there. To not consider this challenge and then to belittle the Thais by gloating about America is silly. Given the intrinsic challenges of the situation, and the dicey power play, the government did its best to keep things from spinning out of control, although it did take an agonisingly long time for the end game to happen.

Incidentally when floods ravaged the city I live in 5 years ago I heard the local media and intellectuals screaming this wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the west -- until Katrina set the record straight. The west has its advantage of wealth and high standards of education, and the extensive reach of this education into the masses, to thank for such domestic violence not happening there. Mostly. Must you gloat ?

To begin with, if you want to talk about apples and oranges, you're trying to compare a natural disaster (Hurricane Katrina) with a man-made fiasco (red shirt demonstrations, riots, and arson). It's also interesting that the average westerner, according to you, cannot understand the complexities of Thai politics...but of course, you are above all the rest of us and understand it fully. Which is very perceptive of you, since most Thais don't understand Thai politics and government.

No, I never said, "in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence," because in fact, riots have occurred in the U.S. But I cannot think of a time in modern U.S. history when a large group of Americans was allowed to essentially shut down a major district and major city transportation for a two-month stretch, or anything approaching it.

I agree that Thai democracy (if it's fair to even call it that) is not western style democracy. But, at the same time, Thailand likes to pretend it's a western style democracy. How many times did we hear Mr. Abhisit (whom I am generally in support of) refuse to oust the demonstrators because he said Thailand had to adhere to "international standards"? Was he talking about African standards? No. Middle Eastern standards? no. He was talking about western standards.

And as to your last point, the government did not, "keep things from spinning out of control". The violence is considered by Thais and international observers alike to be the worst in modern Thai history.

I am not gloating about wonderful things in America. I'll be more than happy to discuss all of America's shortcomings, and there are many. But the issue in this thread is the shortcomings of Thailand.

Edited September 29, 2010 by phetaroi

[Deeral]

In a Western country - or in China - it would never have been permitted to happen in the first place.

I am assuming you are either a westerner or a chinese. Either way, would be good if you left this attitude back home (wherever that is) before you come to Thailand. The west and china have their traditions just as all countries have theirs. In some countries public anger is not managed well, for various reasons that a visiting tourist carrying a baggage of blinkers may never perceive, let alone understand. In China, public anger is not allowed. You have your Tiananmen. Try to boast about that. Or, try to boast about the cops that kicked a frustrated black in Los Angeles. Talk of anger management. Maybe the mismanagement of Katrina Hurricane victims' funds might help you think about those that are victimised. In short, it's better not to gloat about your own elitism in comparison with others. Underneath our clothes we all have our warts.

While I understand what you are saying, what the other poster wrote is not about elitism. I was living in Bangkok during the red shirt demonstrations, and in America no protest groups would have been allowed to virtually shut down the main shopping district for two months, nor burn down 31 buildings with immunity. The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job. Meanwhile, the Thai police were, essentially, on the "other side". In other words, it wasn't just that a riot broke out and 31 building were set afire...because yes, riots can happen anywhere...it was that nobody was really in control for days and weeks at a time. That's anarchy. I can see little in place that would prevent it all from happening again.

what a terribly sad thing t say a lot the state of democracy in USA!

Actually I don't think it really reflects the situation in the States at all - rather the ignorance of the poster.

[TheJalapenoKid]

Here's a photo of the ladies parking lot

[Deeral]

Here's a photo of the ladies parking lot

sexist crap!

[ryladie99]

Just amazing they've got so much rebuilt/reopen already. In a western country the company would still be trying to get a construction/rebuild permit, tied up in court over claims/insurance, etc.

Love this comment very much....I remembered the old store very well...enjoy a new one...life goes on...my opinion...

[sbk]

I suspect women only parking is to avoid weirdos, assaults and the like.

As for Central World re-opening, good. I will visit next time I am in Bangkok. I just hope that everyone who lost their job when it was torched has found a new one, or has been offered their old one back.

[ryladie99]

In a Western country - or in China - it would never have been permitted to happen in the first place.

I am assuming you are either a westerner or a chinese. Either way, would be good if you left this attitude back home (wherever that is) before you come to Thailand. The west and china have their traditions just as all countries have theirs. In some countries public anger is not managed well, for various reasons that a visiting tourist carrying a baggage of blinkers may never perceive, let alone understand. In China, public anger is not allowed. You have your Tiananmen. Try to boast about that. Or, try to boast about the cops that kicked a frustrated black in Los Angeles. Talk of anger management. Maybe the mismanagement of Katrina Hurricane victims' funds might help you think about those that are victimised. In short, it's better not to gloat about your own elitism in comparison with others. Underneath our clothes we all have our warts.

While I understand what you are saying, what the other poster wrote is not about elitism. I was living in Bangkok during the red shirt demonstrations, and in America no protest groups would have been allowed to virtually shut down the main shopping district for two months, nor burn down 31 buildings with immunity. The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job. Meanwhile, the Thai police were, essentially, on the "other side". In other words, it wasn't just that a riot broke out and 31 building were set afire...because yes, riots can happen anywhere...it was that nobody was really in control for days and weeks at a time. That's anarchy. I can see little in place that would prevent it all from happening again.

I agree with your Both opinions...100%

Now, Can you both see the Result after the Riot in Thailand and around the World at this moment ? ( France ) The image from news, internet and newspapers are all over the Globe...day in and day out....

It is very Negative no matter where???

Who is going to visit...?

Where are the Investors?

Can the citizens heal by themselves?

Who are paying for the damage??? ( insurances will collect from Us...we do not participate but...we insure...our premium go up every year....our pockets will.....

Well do not get Mad at me for not taking side....I do mean well. I love the people around the World and I want peace on Earth...

My personal opinion and I am taking a stand.....

[HereIAm]

You are comparing apples and oranges, aren't you, contrasting Thailand with America ? This is just what I said, that it is pointless applying American standards to what was quintessentially a Thai situation. The political difficulties and near impossibilities in this part of the world are too complex for the average westerner to comprehend -- as your posts illustrate. Do you see how well you defeat your own argument by saying on the one hand that "in America no protest groups would have been allowed" to do this sort of thing and then accepting that "The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job." When you say "this wouldn't have been permitted in America" (or China, I still enjoy that bracketing) you evidently mean that western standards of democracy and law enforcement (or Chinese methods of force) are so well developed that in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence but even if they did authorities would have used all means to disperse them and bring a swift end to the violence. The army does not interfere in politics.

But what do you do when it does ? Thailand is not the sort of democracy as most people understand democracy. The army is a law unto itself. As you admit, and as everyone could see, the Thai authorities were presented with a different challenge with law enforcing personnel owing allegiance to different powers holding the country to ransom. A result again of the power struggles going on there. To not consider this challenge and then to belittle the Thais by gloating about America is silly. Given the intrinsic challenges of the situation, and the dicey power play, the government did its best to keep things from spinning out of control, although it did take an agonisingly long time for the end game to happen.

Incidentally when floods ravaged the city I live in 5 years ago I heard the local media and intellectuals screaming this wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the west -- until Katrina set the record straight. The west has its advantage of wealth and high standards of education, and the extensive reach of this education into the masses, to thank for such domestic violence not happening there. Mostly. Must you gloat ?

To begin with, if you want to talk about apples and oranges, you're trying to compare a natural disaster (Hurricane Katrina) with a man-made fiasco (red shirt demonstrations, riots, and arson). It's also interesting that the average westerner, according to you, cannot understand the complexities of Thai politics...but of course, you are above all the rest of us and understand it fully. Which is very perceptive of you, since most Thais don't understand Thai politics and government.

No, I never said, "in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence," because in fact, riots have occurred in the U.S. But I cannot think of a time in modern U.S. history when a large group of Americans was allowed to essentially shut down a major district and major city transportation for a two-month stretch, or anything approaching it.

I agree that Thai democracy (if it's fair to even call it that) is not western style democracy. But, at the same time, Thailand likes to pretend it's a western style democracy. How many times did we hear Mr. Abhisit (whom I am generally in support of) refuse to oust the demonstrators because he said Thailand had to adhere to "international standards"? Was he talking about African standards? No. Middle Eastern standards? no. He was talking about western standards.

And as to your last point, the government did not, "keep things from spinning out of control". The violence is considered by Thais and international observers alike to be the worst in modern Thai history.

I am not gloating about wonderful things in America. I'll be more than happy to discuss all of America's shortcomings, and there are many. But the issue in this thread is the shortcomings of Thailand.

Thanks for your response.

Re: Comparing man-made fiasco with a natural disaster, my point -- which I thought you would see -- was about the response of the administration rather than the event itself. I meant to point out that in the US too the administration failed, if you recall its response to the Katrina disaster, and its handling of relief efforts. Recall how the media and the general public slammed the government for the sense of neglect and worse, the ensuing scams ? Ergo, my earlier point about warts on everybody.

No. Nowhere did I claim I understand the complexities of the Thai situation ( or any situation for that matter). I have an open mind that constantly tells me I know nothing, therefore keep my eyes, ears and my mind open and keep learning. I did mention earlier that at the start of the Bangkok mayhem even I was incredulous that the authorities were not acting. My suggestion is that if we look at each individual situation in Thailand, the USA, Africa, China or anywhere else we will begin to see how so sharply the dynamics differ from one to another and how wrong we would be to apply standard A in environment B. You would be encouraged to know that when I read the confident posts of many here I do feel small to see how significantly less my own confidence is in comparison.

And as for your point about shortcomings of Thailand. Yes, Abhisit was indeed talking of western style democracy, and I applaud that here is a man who is working towards an ideal. But remember, he is working TOWARDS it. His steps have to be measured and inclusive. And, as we all know, the power play is complex and multi-faceted. That, I posit, is the reason for the way his administration reponded to the mayhem. You are right that those months saw the worst in modern Thai history. That they didn't get worse is the real achievement. No kidding. Recall the dark warnings of civil war, break-ups and other fearful eventualities of those days, which might well have come to pass if the government had acted more forcefully as the western style democrats would have wanted. So he is clear about his ideal, but he has to navigate the path in a way that the local population -- rather than the western media -- would accept.