Tired Of The Farang Lady Diatribe!

[sbk]

the post i  stated about man hunting etc is meant to be now the man works.

as with yourself my father after marriage was the only wage earner and thing were tight.

but what this 'old' way of thinking did was to bring up 5 children with respect for their elders an appreciation of working for your money.

what we have now is children expecting things on a plate not wanting to work and no respect for anything apart from themselves this is not all kids but believe me it is the majority.

this i put down to everybody overplaying this equal rights bullsh+t, we have always been equal but some take things to the exteme which directly brings me back on topic.

thai women seem agree with this way of thinking thats why falang men and thai women get on better

I am not sure where you live but where I live most of the women either have jobs outside of the home or are required to do some form of work to earn money (one lady has a fried chicken cart). My mother-in-law worked with her husband fishing and then finally in the coconut gardens while her father-in-law and his wife took care of their children. Most of the families I know both parents are working and grandparents take care of the children. My husband thinks the number of working moms here could be as high as 95%. The idea that if you just scrape by the mom doesn't have to work is ridiculous. If your choice is eating or a stay at home mom I figure most families will choose eating.

what you say i agree with

however in thailand as you say the children are looked after by the grand parents which is great.

i live in england and my grandparents cannot look after the children and i do not believe in farming them out to kindergardens or others.

hence the thai family bonding is very strong and in the west we are losing sight of the importance of families because there seems to be a need for a lot of people to prove their indipendence.

and the women in the west especially the ones of 30+ are far to independant to even think about a family enviroment where as the thai women will, therefore be more compatable

Actually, my response was in regard to a posting that Thai women stayed home and took care of their kids and western women all went out and had careers. Which I refuted. One of our staff has just had a baby and sent it home to live on the mainland with her mother. How is this baby bonding with it's mother? (and no, I didn't know she had just had a baby when we hired her, and yes, she is working because otherwise they don't have any money).

And Oxfordwill, you love to digress. My original point wasn't about breasts or breastfeeding but about this misguided idea that the traditional family unit is a stay at home mom and a working dad. It has only been traditional for a few decades and only in certain classes. That does not make it "age old".

[ZZZ]

There was a survey, a while back, of the lifestyles of wealthy, successful men.

One interesting thing that came out of the survey was that a majority of these men were married to women whose main interest was to take care of the children and the home, typical homemakers.

Most of these women had a lower education than the men and many had worked for the men in a secretarial or domestic capacity.

The people conducting this survey thought about this and checked a similar survey of successful career women to see if these women selected their marriage partner the same way.

The result was a bit shocking as it turned out that most successful career women did not marry.

[thaibebop]

Will, I said anthropologists not archaeologists. And if you think "stone age" cultures don't exist today then you need a subscription to National Geographic.  It's really quite cheap, my mom and dad give me a subscription as a xmas present, it arrives on time, every month, fabulous gift!

And sorry, Will, but are you saying breasts are required to raise children???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, I read anthropologists (sort of like philosophers, except without the armchairs, right?).

Stone age cultures absolutely exist today, only not in the Western world, which sort of discounts them from this discussion (what, you mean you think stone age means the same thing irrespective of heritage? I think you need a subscription to NG, its really very good and..)

Yes, breasts are a prerequisite to raising a child in the stone age (unless you don't mind it being dead).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Babies can drink, Will. Make sure whatever you giving them is not dangerous and it's drinkable, they will live. Breasts don't always work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is getting weirder and weirder

What drinkable sustenance would have been around in the stone age?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about water?

Take water and mix it with ground fruits or vegies and you've juice! WOW!

However, most food given to the young at such a time would be food that the parent had already chewed.

Hi, Welcome back to planet Earth. Enjoy your stay.

[ZZZ]

And Oxfordwill, you love to digress. My original point wasn't about breasts or breastfeeding but about this misguided idea that the traditional family unit is a stay at home mom and a working dad. It has only been traditional for a few decades and only in certain classes.  That does not make it "age old".

I'm not sure who told you the traditional family unit has only been around for a few decades. Did he also have a long white beard and big red pants?

First let’s clear up one misconception here. You are talking about mom staying home and dad working. With this you make it sound like mom is just sitting there watching TV while the man is working, supplying everything for the family.

You can go back to today’s primitive societies (PNG head hunters/Sarawak Ibans/Amazone Indians) and you will find that the women there WORK at home with the children’s education/training, gathering and preparing food, manufacturing anything needed for life in the village and other domestic chores.

The men are usually a lazy bunch but the do the hunting and protect the village from other tribes. The point is the women work with things concerning the home the men do things outside the home. This has gone on since Stone Age until now.

At the start it was more of a community living but for, at least, the last few thousand years the extended core family has been the norm in western society.

This Stone Age way of family life is the way we humans are supposed to live.

An interesting experiment to prove this is to observe a group of people (men, women and children) in a relaxed setting, preferable during holidays away from the normal working day.

This could be at a barbeque or at the camping site. You will be surprised to see how the women (even the successful CEO) group together and start with the domestic chores and how the men check so everything looks ok, get the meat ready, start the fire (traditional Stone Age male chore) and open the beer cans (new Stone Age male chore)

[thaibebop]

And Oxfordwill, you love to digress. My original point wasn't about breasts or breastfeeding but about this misguided idea that the traditional family unit is a stay at home mom and a working dad. It has only been traditional for a few decades and only in certain classes.  That does not make it "age old".

I'm not sure who told you the traditional family unit has only been around for a few decades. Did he also have a long white beard and big red pants?

First let’s clear up one misconception here. You are talking about mom staying home and dad working. With this you make it sound like mom is just sitting there watching TV while the man is working, supplying everything for the family.

You can go back to today’s primitive societies (PNG head hunters/Sarawak Ibans/Amazone Indians) and you will find that the women there WORK at home with the children’s education/training, gathering and preparing food, manufacturing anything needed for life in the village and other domestic chores.

The men are usually a lazy bunch but the do the hunting and protect the village from other tribes. The point is the women work with things concerning the home the men do things outside the home. This has gone on since Stone Age until now.

At the start it was more of a community living but for, at least, the last few thousand years the extended core family has been the norm in western society.

This Stone Age way of family life is the way we humans are supposed to live.

An interesting experiment to prove this is to observe a group of people (men, women and children) in a relaxed setting, preferable during holidays away from the normal working day.

This could be at a barbeque or at the camping site. You will be surprised to see how the women (even the successful CEO) group together and start with the domestic chores and how the men check so everything looks ok, get the meat ready, start the fire (traditional Stone Age male chore) and open the beer cans (new Stone Age male chore)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, should we kill each over you gets to be the alpha male, CEO.

Times have changed, otherwise we'd still be chucking spears for food.

Time to change with them, or be left behind in the evolutionary time line.

[TokyoT]

Boy this thread has taken quite a few twists and turns.

I have a Thai wife and a baby daughter. I have every desire that my daughter grows to become a strong and confident individual. I would be very proud of her should she choose to go to college and thereafter become a career oriented woman (I have already started to saving to help pay for her college). At the same time I would be equally proud of her if she chooses the path of being a housewife (like her mom).

While I would agree that it is getting more and more difficult to raise a family with a single income (with one parent remaining at home to raise the children). I think that many times it really boils down to a family decision in regard to standard of living more than the ability to "raise" a family on a single income. And each family has every right to make the decision they feel best fits the needs of their family. Personally at this stage in our life we have the luxury of having sufficient income to allow my wife to choose to stay at home and raise our daughter.

What I do find kind of demeaning at times it the lack of respect my wife is given by some western women. For some reason there seems to be less respect given to a woman who chooses to remain at home and be a wife and mother. Almost as if she cannot possibly be very intelligent is all she wants out of life is to only be a good wife and mother. My sister for example keeps telling me she cannot wait until my family moves to the US so she can help to westernize my wife. &lt;deleted&gt; – My immediate response to this was to ask her if her husband had sufficient income to allow her to stay home from work and even hire a maid to help around the house would she not have preferred to stay at home to raise her boys at least for a few years?

I do not wish to take anything away from career-oriented women as they have every right to choose the life they want to live (and this can be a very difficult task while still trying to raise a family). But I think couples who wish to have the wife remain at home to raise the children deserve an equal amount of respect. Each couple has the right to determine what is best for their family given their circumstances. And being a stay at home wife and mother does not make my wife any less of a person and does not make our family a family living in the past.

[ZZZ]

Time to change with them, or be left behind in the evolutionary time line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree fully that we should change but to leave the evolutionary time line would be very dangerous and only result in chaos.

The reason a change is needed is that woman’s situation has drastically changed the last 100 years. From Stone Age until 100 years ago women had a fulltime job taking care of home and children. There were usually at least three generations, various in-laws and numerous children to take care of.

Today with the extended core family gone and an average of 1.23 children there is just not enough to do at home for a woman.

So what should the change be?

Best way would probably be the old Hippie commune way. This would allow the career minded in the commune, women and men, to pursue their interests.

There would also be enough people around to take care of the home and the kids. Housing and house hold costs would be much lower allowing people a good living at today’s prices.

These are just my thoughts, there are probably several other possibilities but I can see the slow death of the core family (sdk, this core family was only around for a short while if that was what you was talking about).

[britmaveric]

Wow - seems we have heaps of caveman mentality here. Next thing I'll read its ok to drag your woman around by her hair.

I'd be equally as happy if my lady was more successful and I sat home and was a house husband. These archaic defined roles and mindset is well HISTORY.

[alaina]

Boy this thread has taken quite a few twists and turns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny thing is that there is almost always a common theme. Women ask, "Why can't some posters keep it civil about Western women?" or just "Why can't we just get along?"

It seems to end up in this quagmire of men comparing Western women to Thai women and a several chiming in about why they think Western women are undesirable to date. This almost always gets a few retaliatory responses.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I think these are two different questions.

[OxfordWill]

Don't be too quick to dismiss history, Brit, but I believe you are uniquely genuine in your insistance that you really wouldnt mind one way or the other (although 30 years of it...nobody can be that sure). At any rate the 'Defender of the Realm' doesn't iron.

Sbk - I have kept your original point in mind but the breast issue is an important part of it, but I think we've settled it now (unless you are about to concur with thaibebop on the vegetable juice idea??).

ZZZ - some good points I didn't think about, with regards to 'natural' social behavious of women and men on a camping trip etc. It seems true that most women have more trouble lighting, say, a fire than most men. But is this just thanks to the fact that their parents never taught the daughter how to do it, but did teach the son? It seems certainly true that a young girl shys away from fire and a young boy starts to salivate at the mouth at the sight of a match.

TokyoT - great post, agree, but do you find its all western women or just a minority, or what?

SirBurr - Fascinating to hear about Singapore - I had no idea. I wonder how many other countries have experienced this. 'Its ok to marry a husband with a lower IQ' - top ten government quote easily!

[britmaveric]

Will - what's my tag line have to do with being a honourable sort of lad? I just think any preconceived notions or definitions on what ladies/lads roles in the world should be - well is utter &lt;deleted&gt;!

Edited July 27, 2005 by britmaveric

[Boo]

My last post to ZZZ

Well, you did not say or even imply that you did accept help if offered so how could I have known? 

Err a couple of times I made the point of saying that my husband did things for me & I for him but it was neither expected or asked but, again, to clarify, if he wasn't there then I would be more than capable of doing for myself.

Anyway, what is funny is that you do turn things around all the time to be in the right and this one of the things that turns men off western women.

Not sure where I have twisted my posts to make me right?? I don't need to twist anything, I am right, just as you think your right.

I don't think you are in a position to speak for all men though as many here have & do disagree with you, but again, this isn't personal right & just to confirm I never said I think your veiw is wrong just I don't agree with it it & have certainly never critised you personally for it but again, I don't need you to agree with me, did you not read anything I posted?

Same goes for all of you, your entitled to your opinion as a human being but then so am I & if you don't like how I or others live then thats your business but please, please, please, stay out of mine

And to tokyt, I like your posts but not once here have seen anyone critising a women for choosing to stay home & raise a family.

As much as anyone wants to discuss the way things were or natural instincts, the fact remains that most women want to be able to go about their life with out being critised for not meeting the expectations of others

[OxfordWill]

Sorry Brit, meant to include a smiley face as that ironing bit was just a joke.

[OlRedEyes]

Will, I said anthropologists not archaeologists. And if you think "stone age" cultures don't exist today then you need a subscription to National Geographic.  It's really quite cheap, my mom and dad give me a subscription as a xmas present, it arrives on time, every month, fabulous gift!

And sorry, Will, but are you saying breasts are required to raise children???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, I read anthropologists (sort of like philosophers, except without the armchairs, right?).

Stone age cultures absolutely exist today, only not in the Western world, which sort of discounts them from this discussion (what, you mean you think stone age means the same thing irrespective of heritage? I think you need a subscription to NG, its really very good and..)

Yes, breasts are a prerequisite to raising a child in the stone age (unless you don't mind it being dead).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Babies can drink, Will. Make sure whatever you giving them is not dangerous and it's drinkable, they will live. Breasts don't always work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is getting weirder and weirder

What drinkable sustenance would have been around in the stone age?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about water?

Take water and mix it with ground fruits or vegies and you've juice! WOW!

However, most food given to the young at such a time would be food that the parent had already chewed.

Hi, Welcome back to planet Earth. Enjoy your stay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I want my Mama now... I'm getting scared

[Boon Mee]

I have many Singaporean male friends and it is an increasing trend that they are going outside of Singapore to find wives. Mainly, Indonesia, Thailand and Taiwan.

When I asked some of my Singaporean male friends why this was, and why they didn't take Singaporean wives, they came out with many of the anti-western woman comments espoused by a few posters on this thread. That the women were too materialistic, that they didn't know how to treat their man. That they were too competitive, that their expectations were too high.

Singaporean women too are looking for life partners from other countries, mainly Europe and Australia as they claim that Singaporean men are immature, chauvinistic and are not interested in their aspirations, wants and emotional needs.

So, I would say that this is not a problem exclusive to just farang women. This problem between the sexes is in all industrialized countries.

The situation in Singapore mirrors the west due to the higher standard of education and thus the higher expectations on the part of not just the Chinese but Indian and to a certain degree the Malaysian population too.

Just part of the penalty that city-state pays for its success - lots of stressed, Type "A" folks. Lee Kwan Yuu - look what you're wrought.

Sorry - off topic.

[TRIPxCORE]

Same goes for all of you, your entitled to your opinion as a human being but then so am I & if you don't like how I or others live then thats your business but please, please, please, stay out of mine

Oxfordwill, looks like I have another in agreement with me. Whatcha got to say about that?

Good on you Boo!

[sbk]

Guys, the entire point of the original thread is "why do you have to be rude to farang women?" and then some of you went on attacking all western women just to prove the op's point. Bringing up working moms, false ideas of traditional family units (and zzz, just because you don't know about it doesn't make it untrue, believe it or not, I do have a bit of education), breast feeding, and Boo's independence are all beside the point. The point is, what makes you so godalmighty perfect that you can go about criticising people you don't even know? What makes you the judge of everyone else? Most of the negative points about farang men in Thailand have been brought up by other farang men! So, it certainly doesn't seem that we women are judging you, just the other way round.

[ZZZ]

My last post to ZZZ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks! !

and zzz, just because you don't know about it doesn't make it untrue, believe it or not, I do have a bit of education

I have always thought you were smart but when you said that the family model of women staying home with the children and men working was only a few decades old you really made me wonder. Do you really mean that this is your educated belief?

Bringing up working moms, false ideas of traditional family units (and zzz, just because you don't know about it doesn't make it untrue, believe it or not, I do have a bit of education), breast feeding, and Boo's independence are all beside the point. The point is, what makes you so godalmighty perfect that you can go about criticising people you don't even know?

I ‘m not sure who you are talking about but I have not seen any person being criticized here. There has been criticism and debate about people’s ideas, mine included, but without this there would not really be a discussion would it? You put something out there you must expect it to be challenged and criticized.

Guys, the entire point of the original thread is "why do you have to be rude to farang women?" and then some of you went on attacking all western women just to prove the op's point.

If you read the initial post again you will see it was not at all about "why do you have to be rude to farang women?" The question was far deeper than that questioning the "attitudes of many farang men against western females".

My explanation for this attitude was the natural breakdown of the family unit putting women in a new challenging position that do not conform with the natural state of mind of most men.

Other people have put up other ideas and examples.

[OxfordWill]

Well, TripX, if I said any more on the subject I would no doubt bore you, but suffice it to say that you just don't quite 'get it'. I've tried my best but you still insist on not seeing the difference between an opinion held and an opinion expressed. It's not really vital to the topic at hand, anyway.

Oh, it's beer thirty.

[meadish_sweetball]

As for the original question or opinion posed in this thread, I am sure many men come to Thailand because they are fed up with Western women being demanding. Personally I hope Thai women will start demanding more rights as well. For example that their farang husbands are granted the same rights as farang wives of Thai citizens in terms of property ownership, etc.

I dont presume to know what drives other men, but speaking only for myself I never wanted or thought I would have a relationship with a Thai woman. The ones I met at first seemed immature, girly, to shy and too protected/guarded to be interesting for me. This view and perception changed as I spent more time here though, and became totally irrelevant when I met my fiancée, as such things do when you fall in love.

I never had a problem with farang women as such personally. Half of my genes comes from one... so if I did have a serious problem with her, in some way I would have a problem with myself. Sorry for being PC, I know some of you hate it, but I try my best to form my opinion on people as individuals without forcing them into brackets they usually dont fit into anyway.

<Beginning of off topic discussion erased. /Meadish>

[Boo]

Personally I hope Thai women will start demanding more rights as well. For example that their farang husbands are granted the same rights as farang wives of Thai citizens in terms of property ownership, etc. wink.gif

I didn't think we got any either meadish? But if we do, then

[meadish_sweetball]

Personally I hope Thai women will start demanding more rights as well. For example that their farang husbands are granted the same rights as farang wives of Thai citizens in terms of property ownership, etc. wink.gif

I didn't think we got any either meadish? But if we do, then

I guess I could be wrong, although I got this information from an Immigration Officer in a fairly high position.

[Boo]

cool, might have to get hubby to investigate this further, but agree with you, should be the same rights for everyone & hopefully one day.....

[kayo]

Personally I hope Thai women will start demanding more rights as well. For example that their farang husbands are granted the same rights as farang wives of Thai citizens in terms of property ownership, etc. wink.gif

I didn't think we got any either meadish? But if we do, then

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I could be wrong, although I got this information from an Immigration Officer in a fairly high position.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Meadish,

What is your signature quote from... It rings a bell... A song?

[meadish_sweetball]

Personally I hope Thai women will start demanding more rights as well. For example that their farang husbands are granted the same rights as farang wives of Thai citizens in terms of property ownership, etc. wink.gif

I didn't think we got any either meadish? But if we do, then

I guess I could be wrong, although I got this information from an Immigration Officer in a fairly high position.

Meadish,

What is your signature quote from... It rings a bell... A song?

'Safe from Harm' by Massive Attack (First song on the album 'Blue Lines')

[ZZZ]

<Off topic discussion post erased. /Meadish>

[kayo]

Meadish,

What is your signature quote from... It rings a bell... A song?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Safe from Harm' by Massive Attack (First song on the album 'Blue Lines')

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the one...Thank you.. Great song, good quote. Sorry for the

Ciao, Kayo.

[BambinA]

geeeezzz... how can u guys tired with Farang ladies ..they are cute...

Thai girls are cute also

god makes us for make wolrd colorful ..

why you guys still fight??

Bambi

[OxfordWill]

Not really a fight Bambi, just a heated discussion. We still love one another and hold hands and nice things like that.

[meadish_sweetball]

<Off topic post erased. /Meadish>