Tired Of The Farang Lady Diatribe!

[Boo]

I do not need anyone for these things as it is but I would be perfectly ok with that if that was the case. We all rely on each other and if you can not trust anyone enough to rely on him that's your problem.

this is quite funny, where in my post do I say that I don't let some one help me as rely upon is the wrong word, I said I don't NEED anyone to help not that I don't accept help if it is offered. Different thing entirely.

I left school at 16 & got married at 28, are you suggesting I should have sat at home & not get a job or tried to advance my life myslef until my husband came along??? How funny, really I am LMAO.

Also until you know me & know the kind of economic background or family life I grew up in them you have no place to put down my pleasure at my abilities or success, what you call bragging is what everyone who knows me considers to be an acheivement. Some people never get to travel overseas & yes that is in the UK too & some can never afford to own their own home, so that fact that I am proud of myself for doing both when a lot of people from my background can't is a good thing IMO, so stuff that in your pipe & smoke it.

I don't really see why this should upset some people so much, quite hilarious really

Great point sbk about double standards & so true

[richard10365]

I'm starting to feel like this topic is some kind of group therapy. I think its good to hear opinions from all sides.

I think without discussion, change is impossible.....from both sides.

[thaibebop]

And this illustrates mine:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/711656/posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Niall,

Again, in a broader, non-emotional argument here is a bit of insight from the past 50 or more years since you are into history of men and women's roles in society.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1998/334/334p8.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read both on these links. Very interesting. Yet, neither mentioned personnal morals. I think ( and that might not mean much ) that a big part of divorce rates is both parties being to selfish. My mother and Father divorced when I was very young (a month from birth) and they have spent MY entire life trying to damage the other one through me.

I think Americans have forgotten how to treat each other and when a marriage fails, cause neither want to do the work, they keep right on doing what they did to ruin the marriage, looking out for #1. That selfish outlook is everywhere, from court YV to mags to New York Times bestselling books. 10 tens wrong with your wife, husband, kids, job, life. I think divorce rates show more a decline in community norms then marriage problems, those have been around forever.

Oh yeah, niall, if Pol Pot and Stalin hadn't been such pricks, maybe they could have, ya never know.

I never saw Stalin wear hats, OxfordWill.

[OlRedEyes]

Problem with pride is that one judges one's success or achievements by one's own value system, eg. I may be proud that I became rich, while those that were my peers did not. But the thing is, they may have had other priorities, and did not try to get rich.

Was I a sucess and them a failure? I don't think so.

Success requires many things, opportunity and luck also plays a part. My success does not make me any better than the next guy. Who knows what happened in his life, what physical, economic, psychological or other setback he/she had to suffer, or what priorities he/she has for his/her life.

Where am I going with this? I dunno...

[Boo]

I agree with you oldredeyes, you own personal judgment of your own personal success doesn't make you any better or worse than anyone else but then I don't see anything written that has suggested that it does But a lot has been written that would suggest that I can't be happy with my lot or happy with my acheivements? strange

[donna]

Boo, for the record, I see nothing wrong with you talking about your achievements.

I see it as being a proud person. Not bragging.

"stuff that in your pipe & smoke it" Love it. I've not heard that for years.

[bggg]

thaibebop

"My mother and Father divorced when I was very young (a month from birth) and they have spent MY entire life trying to damage the other one through me.

I think Americans have forgotten how to treat each other and when a marriage fails, cause neither want to do the work, they keep right on doing what they did to ruin the marriage, looking out for #1. That selfish outlook is everywhere, from court YV to mags to New York Times bestselling books. 10 tens wrong with your wife, husband, kids, job, life. I think divorce rates show more a decline in community norms then marriage problems, those have been around forever."

on the other hand my parents were married for 52 years when Dad passed away. I have 2 older sisters that are over the 30 yr mark with their marriages. I being younger and marrying later have just passed 10 yrs. Many of these experiences have a great impact on your views as well as your relationships.

donna

But there is a big difference between 'us farang women' and our Thai sisters. In school, we are taught to speak up and be heard. If we disagree with the teacher, we are taught to debate and get it out into the open. In a Thai school, though, they are not taught to challenge the teachers. What the teacher says is right, and that's that. This has the potential (obviously) to set the tone for the rest of our/their lives.

I have MANY Thai friends, both male and female. Since this topic started I have spoken to a couple of them about it, and they agree with my points. Many of them may not actually be able to do it, but many wish that they could discuss things with their partners and clear the air.

Likewise, have farang men friends who would love it if their wife/GF would tell them what they feel think honestly. Others who find out in a horrible way one day when she finally errupts and lets her true feelings out sometimes violently. Thai girlfriends who laugh behind their mens backs and say if he only knew what I really thought/felt. (SOME NOT ALL)

[britmaveric]

Boo, for the record, I see nothing wrong with you talking about your achievements. 

I see it as being a proud person.  Not bragging. 

"stuff that in your pipe & smoke it"    Love it.  I've not heard that for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was always told that you shouldn't blow your own horn that others will do it for you.

[Boo]

is that a metaphore brit?

[Doza]

This forum has descended into a joke. Not sure I want to be at a social do with you lot the way you go on.

In my opinion you guys like what you like – quiet, non-ambitious, family oriented girls etc etc – and that’s fine. Who cares? But your generalizing of western women makes you appear insecure and jaded. Just get over it. Why talk so much about something that doesn’t interest you?

And you western girls are what you are – possibly hard working, outspoken, confident, driven etc etc – which is fine. If guys don’t want that then who cares? Getting into a slanging match about it with guys who hate what you stand for is pointless.

Doesn’t anybody work around here???

[britmaveric]

is that a metaphore brit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could be now that I think of it!!!

Doza - trust me I've been to a number of pissups and met quite a few members and everyone has been really lovely and heaps of fun. Yes work is done in between posts!

[OxfordWill]

I was always told that you shouldn't blow your own horn that others will do it for you. 

Thank you Brit, I was about to post the same point but in a less sensitive way.

If you take that as an insult, then I apologize but it wasn't meant as one. In my mind, it's incredibly difficult to hold a conversation with a person that doesn't believe I have the right to make up my own mind. Whether I like it or not, whether I agree with it or not, I feel every person has the right to feel how they want to feel. Never will I say that a person's opinion isn't valid based on the assumption, by myself, that they haven't studied the topic well enough.

You and I, we agree to disagree then. Let's leave it at that. No hard feelings.

Sorry but you don't get off that easily. You've twisted what I actually wrote into something that lets you rant about relativity (again!). Go back and re read it another time, realise that it's nothing to do with assumptions nor whether or not you have a right to form your own views. It's about the expression and advocation/defence of prejudice, and the key is whether it is voiced or not. I've read your posts, you're not unintelligent. No hard feelings but to not correct you would be admitting to your interpretation of my words, which is quite, quite incorrect. You advocate a policy that would destroy constructive thinking. 'I agree with keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of idiots - let's start with type writers.'

try not to take it so personally...most of the expat farang men are here because, for whatever reason, they couldnt get a farang woman to put up with them in their own countries...they come here because they hear stories about sweet, submissive thai women who will clean their house, cook their meals and have endless high powered sex...

I'd love to know what you think of me (having already posted far too much in this thread), but I guess you'd be quite wrong. For the record I have never felt mistreated by a western girl, but I HAVE felt mistreated by more than one Thai girl (several infact, you'd be appalled!).

But there is a big difference between 'us farang women' and our Thai sisters. In school, we are taught to speak up and be heard. If we disagree with the teacher, we are taught to debate and get it out into the open. In a Thai school, though, they are not taught to challenge the teachers. What the teacher says is right, and that's that. This has the potential (obviously) to set the tone for the rest of our/their lives

Donna! Brilliant! This is constructive and something of a next step in the progression of this type of thread. An examination of exactly this type of thing in western society will surely reveal the truth to the modern attitudes of the western raised individual. Does treating men and women the same, when they are young, actually help them? Our primary school teacher isn't permitted to let Sandra off of physical education for the day if she cut her finger and has been crying. Why? Because we don't let the boys off either. Good or bad? Must she learn to behave like a boy, rather than have the boys behave like a girl (for example).

I never saw Stalin wear hats, OxfordWill

The joke being that Stalin should have worn comedy hats (much like Churchill, where it is said his hats contained his secret to victory). Don't historians just crack you up?

This forum has descended into a joke.

You imply movement, haha.

But your generalizing of western women makes you appear insecure and jaded. Just get over it

Wish I had thought of that. 'Just get over it!'. Brilliant! Hey, Iraq - Just get over it! Most people have made a point of stating that they recognise many western women don't fall under the one banner, so just get over it, Doza, they might even buy you a drink (yes, I realise you're male!).

And for the record, no we do not work! Brit is fibbing; we just sit here thinking up new ways to introduce this kind of thread to TV.

Edited July 26, 2005 by OxfordWill

[opothai]

great reading

an age old thinking from the beggining of time

women to give birth and nuture the siblings and care for man

men to hunt [asumed the fleetest of foot and superior strenth] and feed the family as the woman is to busy nurturing siblings.

this is or was human nature and the way i was brought up.

modern age thinking is what?

[bggg]

great reading

an age old thinking from the beggining of time

women to give birth and nuture the siblings and care for man

men to hunt [asumed the fleetest of foot and superior strenth] and feed the family as the woman is to busy nurturing siblings.

this is or was human nature and the way i was brought up.

modern age thinking is what?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Modern age thinking is you provide protect, I nuture and support (and work if thats what right for us), but, if things happen and it is needed I provide, and its okay you are secure in knowing that we are a mature loving couple who work our relationship out as it happens. If you become sick I don't wring my hands and bring you chicken soup (until we cannot afford chicken soup) we work together supporting each other in what ever ways work for us and are needed at the time. We love each other, respect each other and help each other. It is a relationship based on mutual respect and love. It is whatever works for the 2 people.

[Boo]

dunno opthai but I don't know any guys in the west who can afford to support his family without the second salary of his wife, so that theory might have worked when people lived in caves or when the cost of living was lower but in the expensive west very few guys can afford to have a home stay wife

[opothai]

dunno opthai but I don't know any guys in the west who can afford to support his family without the second salary of his wife, so that theory might have worked when people lived in caves or when the cost of living was lower but in the expensive west very few guys can afford to have a home stay wife

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if you can not have a stay home wife no problem, do not have children, if you do have children then in my opinion one of the parents should be at home full time to provide adequate protection and love to the young one and keep the family home clean, tidy and functional.

as for the salary's in the west just look at the average earnings 35.000+ that is adequate

[Kringle]

A post I made on another thread here explains my view.:

Women are women just like men are men, some good some really bad, doesn't matter where they are from or what nationality. Just an opinion (I've got an a$$hole) as everyone does, but I think most of the guys here have just been through a bad experience and that does NOT mean that it was the womans fault. A lot of guys came here on vacation and found a YOUNG thing that fulfilled their needs and then they dumped the misses (and sometimes kids) then got married to this woman and others that couldn't get a ride unless they paid for it. I think some of you guys whinging are just going through MALE minopause (SP) and just don't have a clue. I could go on and on but...The other group might have just been in just a real bad situation and are lucky to be out of it. Don't bash all farang women just because of your history. I have an ex farang wife but she is a great lady and a very good mom. Just didn't work for us.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Kringle

[Boo]

sorry opthai but I have to disagree, I know very few people in the 35k plus catagory & they work in central london The rest of your post, well, I'll choose not to comment

[OxfordWill]

dunno opthai but I don't know any guys in the west who can afford to support his family without the second salary of his wife, so that theory might have worked when people lived in caves or when the cost of living was lower but in the expensive west very few guys can afford to have a home stay wife

Not saying I agree with the traditionalists, but my father has supported our family since marrying my mum. She worked as a teacher before meeting him and hasn't worked since. She is far, far, far more outspoken and much more a feminist than anyone I have read on this forum.

Anyway, the point is that there are tons of men who support a family without the need for a wife to work too, it all depends on which economic class you are born into as to what you see more of. My family is poor, incidentally. My parents decided no way would they bring up kids who had both parents working 9 to 5, so my dad worked two jobs instead.

[sbk]

Actually, most anthropoligists studying "stone age" cultures find very little proof to support the idea that the man went out hunting and the woman stayed home to take care of the family. Most of these more "primitive" cultures find that relying on game is very sporadic and that foraging (done by both men and women) tends to be a more regular supply of food. Also, studies have shown that men and women tend to both take part in the hunt.

The idea of the man at work, the wife at home is a 1950's middle class ideal that only lasted for a few decades. Prior to this was the WW2, and before that the Great Depression where anyone who could work did so, prior to that was the Industrial Revolution where men, women and children all worked. On the farm that was also true. In the middle ages both sexes and all ages worked the fields from the time they were capable. Even in SE Asia it was very common for a woman to give birth and then go back to the fields the next day.

The idea that a woman should stay home and tend the children is a luxury most people cannot now and have never been able to afford.

[OxfordWill]

Actually, most anthropoligists studying "stone age" cultures find very little proof to support the idea that the man went out hunting and the woman stayed home to take care of the family.

Ok, but remember that there is very little 'proof' of anything from the stone age. What we do have is biology, and breasts don't grow on men.

edit: Breasts don't grow on MOST men.

Edited July 26, 2005 by OxfordWill

[OlRedEyes]

I agree with you oldredeyes, you own personal judgment of your own personal success doesn't make you any better or worse than anyone else but then I don't see anything written that has suggested that it does But a lot has been written that would suggest that I can't be happy with my lot or happy with my acheivements? strange

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ฯด แนีพหำ ันี ทีหะ นนย ihate it when that happens... my wifes been sending mails..

Boo, of course you must be happy with your achievements, its what drives you to the next step..

Sorry if I come accross incorrectly. My feeling was that in a previous post it was presented more like a hey, look what I did, i'm good so i'll do what i want.

Boo, for the record, I see nothing wrong with you talking about your achievements. 

I see it as being a proud person.  Not bragging. 

"stuff that in your pipe & smoke it"    Love it.  I've not heard that for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't talking about your achievements bragging, if the achievements doesn't directly relate to the subject at hand?

[sbk]

Will, I said anthropologists not archaeologists. And if you think "stone age" cultures don't exist today then you need a subscription to National Geographic. It's really quite cheap, my mom and dad give me a subscription as a xmas present, it arrives on time, every month, fabulous gift!

And sorry, Will, but are you saying breasts are required to raise children???

Edited July 26, 2005 by sbk

[Boo]

ah but the acheivements were brought up in relation to the topic at hand as in 'I am young, succesfull & happy with a great life so I dont care if some people don't like me cause of my nationality or beleifs' as a point to the OP It was only when others took offense to it that it became an issue & I decided to wind you all up with it

[OxfordWill]

Will, I said anthropologists not archaeologists. And if you think "stone age" cultures don't exist today then you need a subscription to National Geographic.  It's really quite cheap, my mom and dad give me a subscription as a xmas present, it arrives on time, every month, fabulous gift!

And sorry, Will, but are you saying breasts are required to raise children???

Yep, I read anthropologists (sort of like philosophers, except without the armchairs, right?).

Stone age cultures absolutely exist today, only not in the Western world, which sort of discounts them from this discussion (what, you mean you think stone age means the same thing irrespective of heritage? I think you need a subscription to NG, its really very good and..)

Yes, breasts are a prerequisite to raising a child in the stone age (unless you don't mind it being dead).

[OlRedEyes]

This forum has descended into a joke. Not sure I want to be at a social do with you lot the way you go on.

In my opinion you guys like what you like – quiet, non-ambitious, family oriented girls etc etc – and that’s fine. Who cares? But your generalizing of western women makes you appear insecure and jaded. Just get over it. Why talk so much about something that doesn’t interest you?

And you western girls are what you are – possibly hard working, outspoken, confident, driven etc etc – which is fine. If guys don’t want that then who cares? Getting into a slanging match about it with guys who hate what you stand for is pointless.

Doesn’t anybody work around here???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't state 'in general'. You say 'you guys'. That includes me. And others like me. I don't like a quiet, non-ambitious, family-oriented gal. I like someone who can bring something to the party, not just a hanger-on. No fun going to bed with a blow-up doll

All the women in my life have been ambitous, and I've always supported them 100%. Nothing makes me feel better than to see someone I care for fly.

Then you quietly state that 'guys', not in general, don't like hard-working, confident, outspoken women. I may be wrong, but I think most guys were saying they don't wanna be beaten up. That goes beyond confident and outspoken.....

What is it about this subject that keeps drawing me in

Edited July 26, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[opothai]

dunno opthai but I don't know any guys in the west who can afford to support his family without the second salary of his wife, so that theory might have worked when people lived in caves or when the cost of living was lower but in the expensive west very few guys can afford to have a home stay wife

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not saying I agree with the traditionalists, but my father has supported our family since marrying my mum. She worked as a teacher before meeting him and hasn't worked since. She is far, far, far more outspoken and much more a feminist than anyone I have read on this forum.

Anyway, the point is that there are tons of men who support a family without the need for a wife to work too, it all depends on which economic class you are born into as to what you see more of. My family is poor, incidentally. My parents decided no way would they bring up kids who had both parents working 9 to 5, so my dad worked two jobs instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the post i stated about man hunting etc is meant to be now the man works.

as with yourself my father after marriage was the only wage earner and thing were tight.

but what this 'old' way of thinking did was to bring up 5 children with respect for their elders an appreciation of working for your money.

what we have now is children expecting things on a plate not wanting to work and no respect for anything apart from themselves this is not all kids but believe me it is the majority.

this i put down to everybody overplaying this equal rights bullsh+t, we have always been equal but some take things to the exteme which directly brings me back on topic.

thai women seem agree with this way of thinking thats why falang men and thai women get on better

[britmaveric]

Will- all men have breasts I'm afraid. Biology 101

Edited July 26, 2005 by britmaveric

[sbk]

Will, I said anthropologists not archaeologists. And if you think "stone age" cultures don't exist today then you need a subscription to National Geographic.  It's really quite cheap, my mom and dad give me a subscription as a xmas present, it arrives on time, every month, fabulous gift!

And sorry, Will, but are you saying breasts are required to raise children???

Yep, I read anthropologists (sort of like philosophers, except without the armchairs, right?).

Stone age cultures absolutely exist today, only not in the Western world, which sort of discounts them from this discussion (what, you mean you think stone age means the same thing irrespective of heritage? I think you need a subscription to NG, its really very good and..)

Yes, breasts are a prerequisite to raising a child in the stone age (unless you don't mind it being dead).

great reading

an age old thinking from the beggining of time

women to give birth and nuture the siblings and care for man

men to hunt [asumed the fleetest of foot and superior strenth]and feed the family as the woman is to busy nurturing siblings.

this is or was human nature and the way i was brought up.

modern age thinking is what?

Actually, it goes back to the above post. My point being that his idea of "traditional age old" sexual roles is a fallacy. And no, to be honest, you don't need breasts to raise a child. Even in the stone age. Breasts are important for the first few months of life (helps build the immune system) but hardly required after that.

[OlRedEyes]

Will- all men have breasts I'm afraid. Biology 101

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aahhhh... but women have BREASTS

And no, to be honest, you don't need breasts to raise a child. Even in the stone age. Breasts are important for the first few months of life (helps build the immune system) but hardly required after that.

Edited July 26, 2005 by OlRedEyes