Latest Developments At Cmu Thai Course

[rob101]

I recently received this by emai (it was sent to the staff at LICMU having a meeting today)l and Matt said it was okay to post:

Dear All,

I do think it is a very good idea to set the record straight. Here are some facts that I am happy to provide evidence for anywhere and anyplace:

1. I was employed under contract to LICMU. I still have the contract (due to expire 30 March 2010!) signed by the former vice president of CMU, Dr. Tannan. This contract states that I am not to receive either salary or wages as Director of International Programs at LICMU, but rather 40% of profits after costs of ANY program at LICMU that I initiate and oversee. I am more than happy to show this contract for anyone (and have been!). There is not now nor has there ever been an established company called "IUS." We did try to form a company, rather quickly, but, unfortunately, unsuccessfully, when we were trying to get students visas. Thus, the email I sent out at that time about IUS.

2. Until March 2008, ALL LICMU TEFL certificates were signed by the president of CMU, Dr. Pongsak Angkasith (I am not quite sure how he managed to do that AND not know that these programs were running at LICMU - but you will have to ask Rien that!) I have copies and originals of the certificates and am happy to show them to anyone (and have been!). It is a utterly spurious notion to say that CMU had no idea these programs were running - come on!

3. I have bank receipts totalling 26 million baht that has been paid into LICMU's bank account over a 5 year period. Again, I have these receipts and am happy to show them to anyone (and have been!).

My argument is simple: I believe that it is right and proper that if there are to be any refunds due to students that it is fair that the refunds be done in the same way as the money was received: I should refund 40% (oh, and BTW, my lawyer has told me that with a contract of employment in hand, I would be liable for nothing; however, I am still willing to pay 40%) and LICMU should refund 60%. As it stands at the moment, I have so far refunded over 800,000 baht while LICMU has refunded NOTHING.

I do not believe this is fair and welcome any meeting with LICMU in a court of law to decide this matter. I will, of course, be attending with ALL my evidence.

All the best,

Matt

[rob101]

cmsally.

re ... Maybe someone who has an actual receipt ..... here ya go .

re ....or credit card statement can mention who actually the money was processed by

i was taken by cep staff to another office in the language institute and gave my money to a thai lady who i thought was staff of cmu and she gave me this reciept

after taking photo copies of passport , visa , address , phone no etc

at no time did cep staff ask me for any money to be paid direct to them

dave2

As was said!!!!!

[maximadz]

I recently received this by emai (it was sent to the staff at LICMU having a meeting today)l and Matt said it was okay to post:

Dear All,

I do think it is a very good idea to set the record straight. Here are some facts that I am happy to provide evidence for anywhere and anyplace:

....

I would be liable for nothing; however, I am still willing to pay 40%) and LICMU should refund 60%. As it stands at the moment, I have so far refunded over 800,000 baht while LICMU has refunded NOTHING.

I do not believe this is fair and welcome any meeting with LICMU in a court of law to decide this matter. I will, of course, be attending with ALL my evidence.

All the best,

Matt

Hello everyone! I was just reader here until now, but today I have my 5 cents to this thread.

I like this message, to be honest. That fact that Matt is going to refund 40% make this looking more realistically for me. I just don't believe that businessman, who Matt certainly is, was going to pay for someone's else faults. I however want my 100% (~130% to be precise). I believe that the right way to get money back is to sue CMU (or that company who received money according to our receipts). I'm not alone here with such thoughts perhaps, so maybe we could share lawyer expenses? I think local lawyer is able quite easily collect information about all the legal entities involved and pick right one to sue. BTW: If others who share this idea can trust Matt enough then we could address him to use his lawyer?

Regards,

Max

[Austeyr]

In regards to Matt being a Doctor. This was brought up years ago by some other TEFL organisations upset about new competition. Again like alot of threads, it was a head hunt. At the time Matt was a lecturer at CMU and one person with a chip on their shoulder sent a letter to CMU accusing Matt of not holding the correct credentials. If i remember correctly his PHD is in Philosophy which was confirmed by CMU and also by the university Matt attended.

People are upset about what has happened and the situation was handled very poorly by LICMU. Turning this into a witch hunt and making accusations based on opinions or heresay is not going to solve the problem but might actually destroy peoples lives who might have been the victim from the start.

[tomartoh]

What are the latest devlopments with Cmu language course? Have the Thai language courses at Cmu finished or not?.

I ask this as i want to move on with life and continue to study Thai at another language school, but notice that they are offering to continue the language courses for existing students

I understand that I need to get a letter from from the Cmu to say the courses have finished, in order that my visa extension can be kept in force.with another school.

Has anyone done this and got the letter from Cmu? Or is there any problems arising form going to another school and keeping existing visa extension?

[forza]

In regards to Matt being a Doctor. This was brought up years ago by some other TEFL organisations upset about new competition. Again like alot of threads, it was a head hunt. At the time Matt was a lecturer at CMU and one person with a chip on their shoulder sent a letter to CMU accusing Matt of not holding the correct credentials. If i remember correctly his PHD is in Philosophy which was confirmed by CMU and also by the university Matt attended.

People are upset about what has happened and the situation was handled very poorly by LICMU. Turning this into a witch hunt and making accusations based on opinions or heresay is not going to solve the problem but might actually destroy peoples lives who might have been the victim from the start.

Yes, other TEFL organisations were jealous on Matt and tried to destroy him. Then CMU was jealous on his success and is now trying to destroy him.

But Matt is NEVER to blame !

[Thighlander]

Lots of the other TEFL programs were accused of engaging in fraud. It WAS a breath of fresh air to see such a fine university start a program. I even considered attending.

IMHO, It is just another pay to work scam. And in this case, it looks like it was even a pay to volunteer scam.

[Cooee]

Don't know exactly. So I called my credit card company and had the funds deposited back into my account. That's the end of it for me.

I'm about to lodge a complaint with my bank, but because it's over 90 days since the transaction took place, they doubt little can done. I'm curious, now long ago did you pay your deposit?

[harrry]

Lots of the other TEFL programs were accused of engaging in fraud. It WAS a breath of fresh air to see such a fine university start a program. I even considered attending.

IMHO, It is just another pay to work scam. And in this case, it looks like it was even a pay to volunteer scam.

As an ex student I would have to say that it is not a scam place. The teachers are excellent and the administration was good. The weakness was in there being only 4 hrs a week and in students not attending as my course was one of the first there was also a slight lack of prepared curriculem.

There is in my view some justification in cracking down on the students not attending...but this applies to all schools , the manner it was done was totally wrong though. Matt ran a good organisation which contracted to CMU. I always believed I was studying at LICMU and the certificate I recieved which was similar to other LICMU certificates supports the fact it was CMU.

I had been considering enrolling at an intensive Thai Certificate course at the CMU Education Faculty but after these events there is no way I would be doing that.

[thaiguy55]

In regards to Matt being a Doctor. This was brought up years ago by some other TEFL organisations upset about new competition. Again like alot of threads, it was a head hunt. At the time Matt was a lecturer at CMU and one person with a chip on their shoulder sent a letter to CMU accusing Matt of not holding the correct credentials. If i remember correctly his PHD is in Philosophy which was confirmed by CMU and also by the university Matt attended.

People are upset about what has happened and the situation was handled very poorly by LICMU. Turning this into a witch hunt and making accusations based on opinions or heresay is not going to solve the problem but might actually destroy peoples lives who might have been the victim from the start.

Yes, other TEFL organisations were jealous on Matt and tried to destroy him. Then CMU was jealous on his success and is now trying to destroy him.

But Matt is NEVER to blame !

Great first post! I bet you have no personal vendetta against Matt.

[Rob9999]

Checking if someone has a PhD is a very simple thing to do. The person writes a thesis/dissertation and it goes into the holdings of the university library. Then you can simply search the library for it like you would for other things. It's not rocket science and they are put there so that people can FIND them.

Matt has told many people that he did a PhD in 2004 at the University of Queensland, and for a long time his bio stated this on the CMU website. This is a fact and not hearsay. Lo and behold, if you visit the UQ library they state that all doctoral theses/dissertations are in their library and you can search for them using the online catalog:

www.library.uq.edu.au/catalogue/theses.html

There's nothing there for Matthew John Kay.

All of the above has been recently confirmed (as of October 2010) by a UQ librarian.

If he actually has one, then why can't he simply just tell everyone here what the title of his thesis was and people can check? This would take two minutes and anyone who actually had one would be happy to share this information.

The reason why all this this continues is because he has failed to do so.

And why is this important? Well, for one thing if doesn't have one it would would be proof of intentionally misleading people for a six-year period...

BTW, I noticed that in Professor Rien's announcement he referred to him as Mr. and not Dr. – I don't think that was a mistake.

[kawtot]

We keep coming back to this qualifications thing, but I'm not sure its helping students.

Some have tried to discredit Ass. Prof. Rien, others Dr Kay. (For the moment I don't know any better than to use those labels)

Later on we can all say "so what" or "that guy misrepresented his qualification, therefore he must be responsible for everything bad that ever happened", or wherever our opinions take us in between.

Meantime I don't care if Dr Kay is a Mr. But I do care if any of the players misrepresent(ed) things in a way that reduces our chances of fair outcomes from having not recieved what we paid LICMU for.

[electracm]

Checking if someone has a PhD is a very simple thing to do. The person writes a thesis/dissertation and it goes into the holdings of the university library. Then you can simply search the library for it like you would for other things. It's not rocket science and they are put there so that people can FIND them.

Matt has told many people that he did a PhD in 2004 at the University of Queensland, and for a long time his bio stated this on the CMU website. This is a fact and not hearsay. Lo and behold, if you visit the UQ library they state that all doctoral theses/dissertations are in their library and you can search for them using the online catalog:

www.library.uq.edu.au/catalogue/theses.html

There's nothing there for Matthew John Kay.

All of the above has been recently confirmed (as of October 2010) by a UQ librarian.

If he actually has one, then why can't he simply just tell everyone here what the title of his thesis was and people can check? This would take two minutes and anyone who actually had one would be happy to share this information.

The reason why all this this continues is because he has failed to do so.

And why is this important? Well, for one thing if doesn't have one it would would be proof of intentionally misleading people for a six-year period...

BTW, I noticed that in Professor Rien's announcement he referred to him as Mr. and not Dr. – I don't think that was a mistake.

I see, reluctantly, that we're back to individual-bashing again, with a brief nod to bashing the CEP program as a 'pay to volunteer' scheme. Has anyone bothered to check the enormous sums other volunteer placements in and around CM are charging? Although, all the payments received will at least have gone to the NGOs concerned and we all know now where 60% of CEP's receipts went.....straight to CMU, who may have needed them rather less than some of the organisations CEP volunteers were helping.

OK, guys, we all know now that the Thai language students want their money back, fair deal, although I wouldn't sit on a hot stove waiting, but point after point is being missed here.

Point one - if CMU had not cancelled all courses and all visas double-fast without any thought to the consequences for those who put their money and time in, there wouldn't be hundreds of farangs running around town trying to sort ther lives out, or former Thai teachers at CMU trying to make up their wages, or good causes left without a p*t to p**s in. CMU did this, end of.

Point two - certain helpful language school employees wouldn't have had to go the extra mile to get Ed visas transferred to their schools in time to prevent farangs having to leave the country, while being told by the Min of Ed that it will take twice as long to deal with ex-CMU visas. An Ed visa, or a transfer to another school used to take 2 weeks -- suddenly it's 4 weeks. Coincidence? I think not.

Point 3 - a good friend of mine wouldn't have been told by her (highly respected on this forum) lawyer that CMU visas are now 'bad' visas which will be treated slighty differently from other Ed visas as regards convenience for applicants.

Point 4 - CMU may not care what its ex-students and volunteers think of it, but the fact is that it was a highly-regarded institution here, not just by the Thai community, which has now lost enormous face due to its own actions, and gained a certain reputation which may damage it. . What goes round, comes round..

None of the above would have happened if someone born in this country and sitting in a posh office in CMU hadn't done what he did, whatever the (real or otherwise) reasons. The courses and visas would have continued, to the benefit of students, teachers, volunteers and those receiving help, no matter what qualifications were held by whom, anywhere in that ugly building.

So, let's keep this discussion on track, pretty please. People out there still need advice and help, rather than scaring them with more gossip, which, by the way, the above isn't - it's fact.

[newbie001]

Rob999 it is not a requirement of every department to file it's dissertations in the Library. There are many unpublished dissertations that never are kept. Matter of fact that specific University doesn't require a dissertation for it's PhD. They can write a series of articles but they have to be published.

So what you suggest is not the most accurate way to find out about one's credentials. An easier way is to contact the Alum organization. They will have records.

You are correct that Matthew has no publications under his name (apart from what he has done here), but that is not a requirement of a PhD. It does lessen his credentials for top University positions but that isn't the argument here.

It is not a requirement to have a PhD in order to run a successful TEFL program. So even if he didn't have this degree it really doesn't matter. An unrelated PhD isn't going to help his business so he wouldn't benefit from lying about it. Also don't you think that in the 6+ years that he has worked at CMU that a fake PhD would have been noticed?

If you want to know about his Thesis than just write him and I am sure that he will tell you. He gave a lecture at the Philosophy department a few years back. His work was on Buddhism and comparative religion. I didn't actually read it but I did see it. Sorry I cannot remember the title though.

Personally, I don't see why this is even an issue. It is unrelated to the problem. Having or not having a PhD isn't going to give money back to the students or bridge the gap from the new management and their decisions and the success of the LICMU for the past 6 years. An organization that started with 1 director (Sansanee), 2-3 office staff and less than 6 teachers to the huge organization that it is today deserves a little credit. The recent problems are clearly a management shift. Regardless of who is to blame, this organization needs to do a lot to get back to where it was even a year ago.

[wehugheog]

Don't know exactly. So I called my credit card company and had the funds deposited back into my account. That's the end of it for me.

I'm about to lodge a complaint with my bank, but because it's over 90 days since the transaction took place, they doubt little can done. I'm curious, now long ago did you pay your deposit?

I was told by VISA that normaly it's 120 days. HOWEVER, since it involved a service delivered over a year, there was no real time limit. Contact your bank/credit card company.

Edited October 12, 2010 by wehugheog

[maximadz]

I recently received this by emai (it was sent to the staff at LICMU having a meeting today)l and Matt said it was okay to post:

Dear All,

I do think it is a very good idea to set the record straight. Here are some facts that I am happy to provide evidence for anywhere and anyplace:

....

I would be liable for nothing; however, I am still willing to pay 40%) and LICMU should refund 60%. As it stands at the moment, I have so far refunded over 800,000 baht while LICMU has refunded NOTHING.

I do not believe this is fair and welcome any meeting with LICMU in a court of law to decide this matter. I will, of course, be attending with ALL my evidence.

All the best,

Matt

Hello everyone! I was just reader here until now, but today I have my 5 cents to this thread.

I like this message, to be honest. That fact that Matt is going to refund 40% make this looking more realistically for me. I just don't believe that businessman, who Matt certainly is, was going to pay for someone's else faults. I however want my 100% (~130% to be precise). I believe that the right way to get money back is to sue CMU (or that company who received money according to our receipts). I'm not alone here with such thoughts perhaps, so maybe we could share lawyer expenses? I think local lawyer is able quite easily collect information about all the legal entities involved and pick right one to sue. BTW: If others who share this idea can trust Matt enough then we could address him to use his lawyer?

Regards,

Max

Hey guys, is anyone interested in? Last week I changed my visa to 2xTourist at Lao. I guess many others have done the same, so we have plenty of time to run it legal way. Not as plenty to sit here and dispute who was Matt "Dr." or "Mr." but enough for constructive things. Maybe I suggest something so obviously wrong that no one reply, so give me a hint, please.

Max.

[wynzlo]

I recently received this by emai (it was sent to the staff at LICMU having a meeting today)l and Matt said it was okay to post:

Dear All,

I do think it is a very good idea to set the record straight. Here are some facts that I am happy to provide evidence for anywhere and anyplace:

....

I would be liable for nothing; however, I am still willing to pay 40%) and LICMU should refund 60%. As it stands at the moment, I have so far refunded over 800,000 baht while LICMU has refunded NOTHING.

I do not believe this is fair and welcome any meeting with LICMU in a court of law to decide this matter. I will, of course, be attending with ALL my evidence.

All the best,

Matt

Hello everyone! I was just reader here until now, but today I have my 5 cents to this thread.

I like this message, to be honest. That fact that Matt is going to refund 40% make this looking more realistically for me. I just don't believe that businessman, who Matt certainly is, was going to pay for someone's else faults. I however want my 100% (~130% to be precise). I believe that the right way to get money back is to sue CMU (or that company who received money according to our receipts). I'm not alone here with such thoughts perhaps, so maybe we could share lawyer expenses? I think local lawyer is able quite easily collect information about all the legal entities involved and pick right one to sue. BTW: If others who share this idea can trust Matt enough then we could address him to use his lawyer?

Regards,

Max

Hey guys, is anyone interested in? Last week I changed my visa to 2xTourist at Lao. I guess many others have done the same, so we have plenty of time to run it legal way. Not as plenty to sit here and dispute who was Matt "Dr." or "Mr." but enough for constructive things. Maybe I suggest something so obviously wrong that no one reply, so give me a hint, please.

Max.

Personally, as a non-citizen, I don't plan to get involved with any lawsuits in Thailand, especially for that amount of money. Right now I'm hoping my credit card company will pull through and reverse the charge on my card. Yes, it would suck to lose that baht, but it's just money.

I've also been explaining the situation to everyone I know -- not the wild accusations you see here on Thaivisa, but simply the fact that CMU took 18,000 baht from me and gave nothing in return. Word spreads quite fast these days...

[Mapguy]

I reread all the posts on this topic today. It took a while, but it was instructive.

Like most web sites of this nature, there is a huge amount of hearsay and speculation. Beyond that, there also appears to be a fair amount of misdirection, selective information and misinformation. An example is the apparent revelation (reported second-hand above) by Kay that "IUS" has never existed. Rather odd! Even CMU refers to it:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3913993

And it can be found elsewhere:

http://www.tefl-feu.com/

Can't find much information on Google beyond additional web sites associated with Kay's programs in one place or another. There's one subscription service for information, but the information might be incomplete:

http://www.zoominfo....argetid=profile

If you follow certain leads, you'll find on the Internet various other programs quite similar to those which were until recently offered by "IUS" at ILCMU.

From a practical point, I think the proposal that ILCMU has made for a modest contribution (Seems to be about 3000THB) from genuine (i.e., accurate satisfactory attendance!) students to continue study looks good. That doesn't help those who were interested in the volunteer program, of course. IMO, I don't see how a legal suit would be at all practical. What lawyer would ever agree to jump into this mess!

From a public relations standpoint, CMU might consider a greater investment.

Nowhere have I found any credible evidence of anti-foreigner action or attitudes. I do detect dismay in some quarters with the way some foreigners behave, as for example, in their behavior or dress, let alone in their gaming of immigration regulations. Why am I not surprised to see such a brouhaha arise concerning educational visas! It is indeed a shame that some others have been caught up it all this.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Mapguy

[orang37]

... snip ... What lawyer would ever agree to jump into this mess!

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun MapGuy,

Disclaimer: we are not involved in this mess at all, never met Dr. Kay, never attended any Thai language school whose fringe benefit was visa. We know one person who was on the volunteer program that did not involve language study, but direct service to the community. Yes, they feel very angry.

But, as to the type of lawyer that would take this on here in Chiang Mai: we'd guess a "greedy one," who saw a good opportunity to make some money off farangs.

"From a public relations standpoint, CMU might consider a greater investment."

We hope they get a complete disaster of a public relations fiasco out of this, and that other responsible schools and universities cancel reciprocal relations with them in academic and other programs.

"Nowhere have I found any credible evidence of anti-foreigner action or attitudes. I do detect dismay in some quarters with the way some foreigners behave, as for example, in their behavior or dress, let alone in their gaming of immigration regulations. Why am I not surprised to see such a brouhaha arise concerning educational visas! It is indeed a shame that some others have been caught up it all this."

At best we could rationalize the above statement by saying that there's credible evidence they defrauded and victimized an entire group of people with little hope of fair legal redress ... who happened to be farang. If a a few, or some, abused the program, why were they not expelled from the program, rather than the entire program being suddenly disconnected leaving hundreds in limbo ?

Indeed, a shame, a shame on CMU.

As to the allegations that Dr. Kay mis-represented his credentials, we could care one whit if he did: if, in fact, he created a successful quality program that, over time, produced lots of satisfied competent graduates. Unfortunately, if these allegations are proven, they will provide a rationale for making him a scapegoat, and, ioho, probably decrease the already almost zero chance of those who were screwed getting any redress legally in Thailand.

This is a country where they do "shoot the messenger," and, as we are told by a Thai lawyer friend, Thai law is more influenced by the French system in which "character" and "record" of "defendants" is on trial as much as the focal issue (to wit: in the trial of Meursault in Camus' famous 'L'Etranger).

Personally we admire Dr. Kay for refunding money he doesn't legally have to (if were him we would have fled the country in fear of our lives the moment this went down).

We hope at least the national newspapers in Thailand (in English) pick this story up at some point.

best, ~o:37;

Edited October 13, 2010 by orang37

[forza]

cancelled.

Edited October 13, 2010 by forza

[newbie001]

I think that the issue with the IUS, is that it was just created to provide a company to deal with the issues that the students were facing by losing their visas.

The old director and Matthew were trying to do something to remedy the decision made by the new director at LICMU.

The one thing that will proctect the LICMU is that it isn't against any law to close down a business. People who pay for a service and then that company stops selling that service our out of luck. That is what LICMU did. They decided to close down the Thai language and the volunteer program and dedicate their staff to their mission of serving CMU students.

Yes, it sucks for those that paid and it is a bad decision but it happens all over the world. It wasn't a deliberate scheme to cheat a few people out of a pittance.

There are many international programs at CMU and many strong programs that have exchange programs. The issues with LICMU will not effect those programs. This for profit entity and others like it at CMU the international center, HAS center, and many more have very little influence in the grand scheme of things.

The university brings in Millions of Dollars in all of its programs. It has a strong exchange program with many Chinese Universities and many falculties have their own private exchanges with Western Universities.

[Cooee]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the website http://www.unitefl.com/ ?

It states that CMULI is the domain registrant and Matt Kay is the contact person. This is a new website (created on 30 Sept 2010) and I know someone starting their TEFL there, next month, confirmed a few days ago.

[Thighlander]

Checking if someone has a PhD is a very simple thing to do. The person writes a thesis/dissertation and it goes into the holdings of the university library. Then you can simply search the library for it like you would for other things. It's not rocket science and they are put there so that people can FIND them.

Matt has told many people that he did a PhD in 2004 at the University of Queensland, and for a long time his bio stated this on the CMU website. This is a fact and not hearsay. Lo and behold, if you visit the UQ library they state that all doctoral theses/dissertations are in their library and you can search for them using the online catalog:

www.library.uq.edu.au/catalogue/theses.html

There's nothing there for Matthew John Kay.

All of the above has been recently confirmed (as of October 2010) by a UQ librarian.

If he actually has one, then why can't he simply just tell everyone here what the title of his thesis was and people can check? This would take two minutes and anyone who actually had one would be happy to share this information.

The reason why all this this continues is because he has failed to do so.

And why is this important? Well, for one thing if doesn't have one it would would be proof of intentionally misleading people for a six-year period...

BTW, I noticed that in Professor Rien's announcement he referred to him as Mr. and not Dr. – I don't think that was a mistake.

Great post.

[heybruce]

Checking if someone has a PhD is a very simple thing to do. The person writes a thesis/dissertation and it goes into the holdings of the university library. Then you can simply search the library for it like you would for other things. It's not rocket science and they are put there so that people can FIND them.

Matt has told many people that he did a PhD in 2004 at the University of Queensland, and for a long time his bio stated this on the CMU website. This is a fact and not hearsay. Lo and behold, if you visit the UQ library they state that all doctoral theses/dissertations are in their library and you can search for them using the online catalog:

www.library.uq.edu.au/catalogue/theses.html

There's nothing there for Matthew John Kay.

All of the above has been recently confirmed (as of October 2010) by a UQ librarian.

If he actually has one, then why can't he simply just tell everyone here what the title of his thesis was and people can check? This would take two minutes and anyone who actually had one would be happy to share this information.

The reason why all this this continues is because he has failed to do so.

And why is this important? Well, for one thing if doesn't have one it would would be proof of intentionally misleading people for a six-year period...

BTW, I noticed that in Professor Rien's announcement he referred to him as Mr. and not Dr. – I don't think that was a mistake.

Great post.

Really? How is the above on topic? How does it help anyone who lost money and possibly their visa when LICMU canceled the program?

[electracm]

Checking if someone has a PhD is a very simple thing to do. The person writes a thesis/dissertation and it goes into the holdings of the university library. Then you can simply search the library for it like you would for other things. It's not rocket science and they are put there so that people can FIND them.

Matt has told many people that he did a PhD in 2004 at the University of Queensland, and for a long time his bio stated this on the CMU website. This is a fact and not hearsay. Lo and behold, if you visit the UQ library they state that all doctoral theses/dissertations are in their library and you can search for them using the online catalog:

www.library.uq.edu.au/catalogue/theses.html

There's nothing there for Matthew John Kay.

All of the above has been recently confirmed (as of October 2010) by a UQ librarian.

If he actually has one, then why can't he simply just tell everyone here what the title of his thesis was and people can check? This would take two minutes and anyone who actually had one would be happy to share this information.

The reason why all this this continues is because he has failed to do so.

And why is this important? Well, for one thing if doesn't have one it would would be proof of intentionally misleading people for a six-year period...

BTW, I noticed that in Professor Rien's announcement he referred to him as Mr. and not Dr. – I don't think that was a mistake.

Great post.

Really? How is the above on topic? How does it help anyone who lost money and possibly their visa when LICMU canceled the program?

And how does it help people who have been told at Immigration today that they cannot transfer to another visa from a CMU-linked visa? It would seem that someone living or working under the shadow of Doi Suthep wants everyone who was innocently on a course of any kind at LI out of the country .

Except, perhaps, for the guys who are now attending the 'continuing' Thai classes and paying half the teachers' salaries themsleves....there are, obviously, several born every minute.

How strange.

There are too many people fiddling while Rome burns , both on this post and in this city.

[tomartoh]

Checking if someone has a PhD is a very simple thing to do. The person writes a thesis/dissertation and it goes into the holdings of the university library. Then you can simply search the library for it like you would for other things. It's not rocket science and they are put there so that people can FIND them.

Matt has told many people that he did a PhD in 2004 at the University of Queensland, and for a long time his bio stated this on the CMU website. This is a fact and not hearsay. Lo and behold, if you visit the UQ library they state that all doctoral theses/dissertations are in their library and you can search for them using the online catalog:

www.library.uq.edu.au/catalogue/theses.html

There's nothing there for Matthew John Kay.

All of the above has been recently confirmed (as of October 2010) by a UQ librarian.

If he actually has one, then why can't he simply just tell everyone here what the title of his thesis was and people can check? This would take two minutes and anyone who actually had one would be happy to share this information.

The reason why all this this continues is because he has failed to do so.

And why is this important? Well, for one thing if doesn't have one it would would be proof of intentionally misleading people for a six-year period...

BTW, I noticed that in Professor Rien's announcement he referred to him as Mr. and not Dr. – I don't think that was a mistake.

Great post.

Really? How is the above on topic? How does it help anyone who lost money and possibly their visa when LICMU canceled the program?

And how does it help people who have been told at Immigration today that they cannot transfer to another visa from a CMU-linked visa? It would seem that someone living or working under the shadow of Doi Suthep wants everyone who was innocently on a course of any kind at LI out of the country .

Except, perhaps, for the guys who are now attending the 'continuing' Thai classes and paying half the teachers' salaries themsleves....there are, obviously, several born every minute.

How strange.

There are too many people fiddling while Rome burns , both on this post and in this city.

yes i could have signed on with cmu again when i went yesterday, there were about 30 already on the list

if i had done that, then my visa would have been safe

the woman who dealt with me wanted to put todays date for the cancellation of the course, which would have seen me out post haste.

i insisted on the end of the month as cmu had put in there notice on the internet. she was pretty arsey with me and told me that course had finished on the 30 of september. so i did point out that cmu had cancelled courses and fuc_ked up a lot of innocent peoples lives and i that was one of them

but they dont really care and cutting ones nose to spite the face is standard procedure here

makes you think

[Bubbalicious]

Certainly has been an interesting tale unfolding at CMU over the last month. Though, let me just say, as a 6 year CM resident I'm not surprised with the, uh, less than stellar management.

As an interested, but entirely independent observer, let me chime in on a few posts, with my understanding of people's visa status and the change of school issue:

RE: Electracm's p.3 post:

Point two - certain helpful language school employees wouldn't have had to go the extra mile to get Ed visas transferred to their schools in time to prevent farangs having to leave the country, while being told by the Min of Ed that it will take twice as long to deal with ex-CMU visas. An Ed visa, or a transfer to another school used to take 2 weeks -- suddenly it's 4 weeks. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm not sure why the Ministry of Ed. would be at all involved in this. They certify language programs, and from what I understand aren't involved in any paperwork that would be required for a visa (unless it's a new private language school, trying to get its new registration papers, from Min of Ed.....a copy of which is required to submit to Immigration for your visa).

As for the issue of transferring from one school to another (Electracm's post above) and Tomartoh's experience getting a cancellation letter/date: It seems that whatever info was communicated to Immigration about LICMU students was that the end of study was September 30, 2010, irregardless of what LICMU posted on their website about this month being the end (which to me was just a PR/legal strategy related announcement, rather than an announcement targeted to CM Immigration).

Thus, effectively, it seems to me that whoever has a Non-Imm -ED visa from LICMU has now technically overstayed. The arsey lady whom Tomartoh dealt with probably was not too happy about, basically, committing fraud since, after all, everyone's studies did end on September 30th. And, as stup.d as it is, the Thai law says you have to be out of the country the day your status ends (whatever status, study, work, etc....) though in practice, nobody bothers about that too much....except when you want to change status within Thailand at Immigration (ka ching - overstay, 500b per day!)

Since it is my understanding that you can not change from one visa to another when you have overstayed, that prevents anyone from transferring their visa from within Thailand. That seems to be the situation, unless you can get a letter from CMU, in THAI, that says your end of studies date is October 31, or whatever date between now and then you can get your new visa paperwork done.

As I pointed out (and several others noted) on the closed thread on the Visa board, immigration is not going to hunt you down and kick you out if you stay in Thailand until whatever date is stamped in your passport (you can probably even safely get a re-entry permit on your same visa, as long as LICMU hasn't sent your name to Immigration, and even then you'd probably get by without them noticing). So, for those worried about staying until whenever the date on their visa is, I'd just say, don't worry (and don't get arrested.....) :-)

So, unless anyone has any other experience with successfully transferring visas, I would say that going out and coming back with a tourist visa (or out with a school's visa letter and getting a new visa) whenever it is needed, would be the main avenue left for people. You can then get that tourist visa changed to a Non-Imm Ed visa in BKK (as long as you have enough days left on the tourist visa - at least 15 as I recall). Check the old thread for more details.

As for the Unitefl dot com site. I note that it was registered on Sept. 30th. I did a lookup on it too, and it said CMULI. But, obviously, this has to be Matt's reincarnation (and as with other things he seems to do, spare the details....). As with his other attempt to reincarnate at Far Eastern, it seems like a lot of content was just copied and pasted into this site. I'm not sure how exactly they can already have been accredited by the Ministry of Education, as this involves is a long-term process. I'm not sure how they can even have been 'registered' as a school yet. Perhaps it is more accurate to say in its former life at CMULI "it was" accredited by the Min of Ed, but "is NOT" now. Seeing how the staff is likely all transfered from the old program, it will probably be okay/sufficient (the only person I know who took the old program had good things to say). I'm not sure how all that staff will be, uh......legal, by that time though. 

I await the next chapter with baited breath.....

[electracm]

Certainly has been an interesting tale unfolding at CMU over the last month. Though, let me just say, as a 6 year CM resident I'm not surprised with the, uh, less than stellar management.

As an interested, but entirely independent observer, let me chime in on a few posts, with my understanding of people's visa status and the change of school issue:

RE: Electracm's p.3 post:

Point two - certain helpful language school employees wouldn't have had to go the extra mile to get Ed visas transferred to their schools in time to prevent farangs having to leave the country, while being told by the Min of Ed that it will take twice as long to deal with ex-CMU visas. An Ed visa, or a transfer to another school used to take 2 weeks -- suddenly it's 4 weeks. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm not sure why the Ministry of Ed. would be at all involved in this. They certify language programs, and from what I understand aren't involved in any paperwork that would be required for a visa (unless it's a new private language school, trying to get its new registration papers, from Min of Ed.....a copy of which is required to submit to Immigration for your visa).

As for the issue of transferring from one school to another (Electracm's post above) and Tomartoh's experience getting a cancellation letter/date: It seems that whatever info was communicated to Immigration about LICMU students was that the end of study was September 30, 2010, irregardless of what LICMU posted on their website about this month being the end (which to me was just a PR/legal strategy related announcement, rather than an announcement targeted to CM Immigration).

Thus, effectively, it seems to me that whoever has a Non-Imm -ED visa from LICMU has now technically overstayed. The arsey lady whom Tomartoh dealt with probably was not too happy about, basically, committing fraud since, after all, everyone's studies did end on September 30th. And, as stup.d as it is, the Thai law says you have to be out of the country the day your status ends (whatever status, study, work, etc....) though in practice, nobody bothers about that too much....except when you want to change status within Thailand at Immigration (ka ching - overstay, 500b per day!)

Since it is my understanding that you can not change from one visa to another when you have overstayed, that prevents anyone from transferring their visa from within Thailand. That seems to be the situation, unless you can get a letter from CMU, in THAI, that says your end of studies date is October 31, or whatever date between now and then you can get your new visa paperwork done.

As I pointed out (and several others noted) on the closed thread on the Visa board, immigration is not going to hunt you down and kick you out if you stay in Thailand until whatever date is stamped in your passport (you can probably even safely get a re-entry permit on your same visa, as long as LICMU hasn't sent your name to Immigration, and even then you'd probably get by without them noticing). So, for those worried about staying until whenever the date on their visa is, I'd just say, don't worry (and don't get arrested.....) :-)

So, unless anyone has any other experience with successfully transferring visas, I would say that going out and coming back with a tourist visa (or out with a school's visa letter and getting a new visa) whenever it is needed, would be the main avenue left for people. You can then get that tourist visa changed to a Non-Imm Ed visa in BKK (as long as you have enough days left on the tourist visa - at least 15 as I recall). Check the old thread for more details.

As for the Unitefl dot com site. I note that it was registered on Sept. 30th. I did a lookup on it too, and it said CMULI. But, obviously, this has to be Matt's reincarnation (and as with other things he seems to do, spare the details....). As with his other attempt to reincarnate at Far Eastern, it seems like a lot of content was just copied and pasted into this site. I'm not sure how exactly they can already have been accredited by the Ministry of Education, as this involves is a long-term process. I'm not sure how they can even have been 'registered' as a school yet. Perhaps it is more accurate to say in its former life at CMULI "it was" accredited by the Min of Ed, but "is NOT" now. Seeing how the staff is likely all transfered from the old program, it will probably be okay/sufficient (the only person I know who took the old program had good things to say). I'm not sure how all that staff will be, uh......legal, by that time though.

I await the next chapter with baited breath.....

]

next chapter -- but the book's still closed and wrapped -- I ws advised by my (recommended many times on this forum) lawyer today by phone that I need to 'distance myself from any Ed visa at any Thai language school right now' - I'm taking her advice. That comes after her referral last week to 'bad visas' .....she's never given me (or anyone I know) bad or ill-informed advice and always seems to know what's going down before anyone else.

[Bubbalicious]

Certainly has been an interesting tale unfolding at CMU over the last month. Though, let me just say, as a 6 year CM resident I'm not surprised with the, uh, less than stellar management.

As an interested, but entirely independent observer, let me chime in on a few posts, with my understanding of people's visa status and the change of school issue:

RE: Electracm's p.3 post:

Point two - certain helpful language school employees wouldn't have had to go the extra mile to get Ed visas transferred to their schools in time to prevent farangs having to leave the country, while being told by the Min of Ed that it will take twice as long to deal with ex-CMU visas. An Ed visa, or a transfer to another school used to take 2 weeks -- suddenly it's 4 weeks. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm not sure why the Ministry of Ed. would be at all involved in this. They certify language programs, and from what I understand aren't involved in any paperwork that would be required for a visa (unless it's a new private language school, trying to get its new registration papers, from Min of Ed.....a copy of which is required to submit to Immigration for your visa).

As for the issue of transferring from one school to another (Electracm's post above) and Tomartoh's experience getting a cancellation letter/date: It seems that whatever info was communicated to Immigration about LICMU students was that the end of study was September 30, 2010, irregardless of what LICMU posted on their website about this month being the end (which to me was just a PR/legal strategy related announcement, rather than an announcement targeted to CM Immigration).

Thus, effectively, it seems to me that whoever has a Non-Imm -ED visa from LICMU has now technically overstayed. The arsey lady whom Tomartoh dealt with probably was not too happy about, basically, committing fraud since, after all, everyone's studies did end on September 30th. And, as stup.d as it is, the Thai law says you have to be out of the country the day your status ends (whatever status, study, work, etc....) though in practice, nobody bothers about that too much....except when you want to change status within Thailand at Immigration (ka ching - overstay, 500b per day!)

Since it is my understanding that you can not change from one visa to another when you have overstayed, that prevents anyone from transferring their visa from within Thailand. That seems to be the situation, unless you can get a letter from CMU, in THAI, that says your end of studies date is October 31, or whatever date between now and then you can get your new visa paperwork done.

As I pointed out (and several others noted) on the closed thread on the Visa board, immigration is not going to hunt you down and kick you out if you stay in Thailand until whatever date is stamped in your passport (you can probably even safely get a re-entry permit on your same visa, as long as LICMU hasn't sent your name to Immigration, and even then you'd probably get by without them noticing). So, for those worried about staying until whenever the date on their visa is, I'd just say, don't worry (and don't get arrested.....) :-)

So, unless anyone has any other experience with successfully transferring visas, I would say that going out and coming back with a tourist visa (or out with a school's visa letter and getting a new visa) whenever it is needed, would be the main avenue left for people. You can then get that tourist visa changed to a Non-Imm Ed visa in BKK (as long as you have enough days left on the tourist visa - at least 15 as I recall). Check the old thread for more details.

As for the Unitefl dot com site. I note that it was registered on Sept. 30th. I did a lookup on it too, and it said CMULI. But, obviously, this has to be Matt's reincarnation (and as with other things he seems to do, spare the details....). As with his other attempt to reincarnate at Far Eastern, it seems like a lot of content was just copied and pasted into this site. I'm not sure how exactly they can already have been accredited by the Ministry of Education, as this involves is a long-term process. I'm not sure how they can even have been 'registered' as a school yet. Perhaps it is more accurate to say in its former life at CMULI "it was" accredited by the Min of Ed, but "is NOT" now. Seeing how the staff is likely all transfered from the old program, it will probably be okay/sufficient (the only person I know who took the old program had good things to say). I'm not sure how all that staff will be, uh......legal, by that time though.

I await the next chapter with baited breath.....

]

next chapter -- but the book's still closed and wrapped -- I ws advised by my (recommended many times on this forum) lawyer today by phone that I need to 'distance myself from any Ed visa at any Thai language school right now' - I'm taking her advice. That comes after her referral last week to 'bad visas' .....she's never given me (or anyone I know) bad or ill-informed advice and always seems to know what's going down before anyone else.

Yeah, from what I gather from the other thread (which I didn't see till after I posted this), any cancel letter with a CMU letterhead seems like it will send off the alarms down there at Immigration. This is probably due to the varied/irregular signals that Immigration has gotten from CMU, all the various inquiries they've gotten from students, and then all the other cancel letters that people ran down there with last month. Seems like they have have discovered that everything shut down at CMU last month, so from their point of view (and the law) you shouldn't be here anymore under your current status. And, especially for you, there has been no indication from CMU to continue with the CEP program.

However, I'm gathering from what you have posted so far that you haven't been charged any overstay for the 14-15 days that you technically were here on overstay of your status? Though, you will be charged overstay from the date your visa ended, whenever you do leave the country.

A really sad state of affairs over there. And even worse for those who got caught up in this power struggle/money grab (whatever rationale it was the Director had to make his move). Though, with the way that the Thai government randomly changes policies, it's perhaps not so surprising. I've always thought of myself as a long-term resident here, but in the last year I've thought more and more of moving on.

Hope everything works out satisfactorily for you and those still caught up in this Rien of Terror.

Edit: P.S. I still think that going out and coming back on a tourist visa and then changing that to an ED visa in BKK is a viable option (since CM Immigration is not in the loop for that at all). And for those who don't mind making runs to Laos or other visa spots, just staying on a tourist visa to study is also an option.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Bubbalicious

[jackr]

The one thing that will proctect the LICMU is that it isn't against any law to close down a business. People who pay for a service and then that company stops selling that service our out of luck. That is what LICMU did. They decided to close down the Thai language and the volunteer program and dedicate their staff to their mission of serving CMU students.

Yes, it sucks for those that paid and it is a bad decision but it happens all over the world. It wasn't a deliberate scheme to cheat a few people out of a pittance.

It's nothing short of fraud and theft. If it wasn't a 'deliberate scheme to cheat a few people out of a pittance' (few people, pittance ), then why don't the bastards pay back the money they have stolen. The whole thing is disgusting, and, I'm afraid to say, typical of where we are.