Latest Developments At Cmu Thai Course

[Mapguy]

Today I navigated to the Chiang Mai University web site. I have no involvement with this problem personally. As soon as the web site opened a pop-up appeared relating to the apparent problems.

MSPain

Could you be more specific about this website as at the risk of appearing more stupid than what i am i cannot find it.

Here it is: http://www.cmu.ac.th/images/uploadfile/announcement-101007.html

[thaiboy999]

This may not be news for some of the readers, but this is my latest experience of trying to obtain some refund through my bank/credit card issuer. It might be useful to those who are planning to march up to Rien’s office and demand a refund from LICMU in the near future.

I paid part of the tuition with a VISA card from a Thai bank. When I requested assistance in filing a claim at the bank with all the relevant documentations, the bank teller called up LICMU while I waited. I did not intend to talk to anyone from LICMU, but after a while the teller passed me the phone and let the CMU person talk to me directly. The voice was that of a male, though he would not tell me his name, even after I’ve asked twice.

The bottom line is, don’t even fantasize ever getting a refund from CMU - that we all know. “Go ask Matt for the money - it is ‘not’ the responsibility of the LI…” was basically what he said over and over and over again like a broken record throughout our conversation. When I pointed out that I was a student of LICMU, not of Matt, and that Matt seems to be no longer employed by LICMU, it doesn’t make sense for him to ask me to track down an ex-employee of CMU to try to get a refund. What, am I a private detective?

Then he goes, well, when I signed up and paid for the Thai language course back then, Matt was still employed (in LICMU), so even though today he is not, I need to “go ask Matt for the money - it is…” blah blah blah. I admit I’m not an expert in Thai culture and way of "reasoning", but how could this parrot’s argument even make sense, I don’t know. Coward and hypocritical people would do and say anything, no matter how ridiculous, to avoid taking responsibility - that I know.

And of course on the phone he fed the bank teller with the usual crapload of lies, so even the teller, who had practically no hope of understanding the complexity of the events or hearing other versions of the story in less than an hour, told me I should “go ask Matt…” Perhaps not surprisingly, my bank fell for what LICMU said on the phone - hook, line and sinker - and squarely placed the refund responsibility on Matt too. When I asked the teller to call up VISA and/or her head office to file a claim for me, she refused because “clearly” Matt has taken the money and run.

So this is one instance in which calling up your bank/credit card company for a refund does not work. Then again, it’s a Thai bank we’re talking about here, I should have seen it coming. At least I’ve given it a try. I would like to see Matt make good on his refund promises, though I’m not holding my breath. The silver lining is that this experience at LICMU has motivated me to plan to leave Thailand for good sooner than expected. This place disgusts me.

[Mapguy]

This circulated today:  

Dear XXX,  We are very happy to inform you about some exciting news concerning your CMU TEFL certificate.  CMU TEFL, one of the most highly-regarded university-developed TEFL programs in South East Asia, has been renamed UniTEFL (www.unitefl.com). This change of name coincides with the UniTEFL program expanding into its own new UniTEFL Training Centre. (close to the centre of Chiang Mai). Additionally, beginning in March 2011, the former CMU TEFL curriculum (now UniTEFL) will be offered at over 30 Australian universities and vocational colleges.  All our associated schools, colleges, and universities around the world have been informed of the name change to UniTEFL, and are aware that the UniTEFL program continues to offer its Thai Ministry of Education approved certificate with the same curriculum and trainers. All CMU TEFL certificates will continue to enjoy the same level of recognition and are still valid for securing teaching positions.  To celebrate our new identity, we would like to make you an offer to become one of our affiliates. This means is that if you suggest our program to anyone considering a TEFL program, please send us an email ([email protected]) with that person's name, and we will send you 6000 Baht (or its equivalent in foreign currency) on the first day of that person's program. If they have any questions about the program that you are unsure of, please have them email us and we will be happy to answer any their questions.  We look forward to hearing from you.  

All the best,  

UniTEFL Team  

088-402-8217  

www.unitefl.com

[NancyL]

Thaiboy999, your experience in trying to file a Visa card claim was discouraging. Fortunately, our Visa card is issued by an American credit union, unfortunately we're past the 120 time limit. But, the credit union suggested we still file a formal claim. I don't have a Visa card in Thailand, so I wouldn't know how this should work. Is there some language on your Visa card statement about how to file a claim for a disputed charge? If your charge is fairly recent, I'd encourage you to pursue filing. We've learned that you should just keep asking different personnel the same question if you initially get an answer you don't like from a Thai company, especially if that first answer doesn't make any sense.

And the answer you got doesn't make any sense. This is like the owner of a company saying that Mr. X has left our employ and since the customer gave his payment to Mr. X then the customer should track down Mr. X for the refund.

What was the merchant name on your credit card receipt? Ours said Chiang Mai Language Institute, not Mr. X.

[Austeyr]

This circulated today:

Dear XXX, We are very happy to inform you about some exciting news concerning your CMU TEFL certificate. CMU TEFL, one of the most highly-regarded university-developed TEFL programs in South East Asia, has been renamed UniTEFL (www.unitefl.com). This change of name coincides with the UniTEFL program expanding into its own new UniTEFL Training Centre. (close to the centre of Chiang Mai). Additionally, beginning in March 2011, the former CMU TEFL curriculum (now UniTEFL) will be offered at over 30 Australian universities and vocational colleges. All our associated schools, colleges, and universities around the world have been informed of the name change to UniTEFL, and are aware that the UniTEFL program continues to offer its Thai Ministry of Education approved certificate with the same curriculum and trainers. All CMU TEFL certificates will continue to enjoy the same level of recognition and are still valid for securing teaching positions. To celebrate our new identity, we would like to make you an offer to become one of our affiliates. This means is that if you suggest our program to anyone considering a TEFL program, please send us an email ([email protected]) with that person's name, and we will send you 6000 Baht (or its equivalent in foreign currency) on the first day of that person's program. If they have any questions about the program that you are unsure of, please have them email us and we will be happy to answer any their questions. We look forward to hearing from you.

All the best,

UniTEFL Team

088-402-8217

www.unitefl.com

I do not understand what this has to do with the 1 Year Thai program. The TEFL course was a separate entity to the 1year Thai program and after CMU closed it's doors to foreign programs the TEFL course was also closed. The TEFL team who developed the course have decided to become an independent TEFL program. A lot of people got caught up in this mess including a lot of hard working staff and teachers who did nothing wrong except do their job.

[thaiboy999]

The merchant name is clearly "Chiang Mai University Language Institute". There's no other names on the receipt. No IUS. No Matthew, Dr. or Mr. or Mrs. or whatever.

For those of you who are wondering what happened to the link to the Chiang Mai Mail report (Post #94), well the editor has taken the whole report down because... well, I can't really say because I've promised confidentiality. But let me think out loud... clearly there are two major sides in this current scandal, if, and I'm just saying IF, one of them was exerting pressure on the editor to remove the report, I wonder which side may that be... There. If you did follow the link and read up prior to its removal, or better yet have printed out a copy like I did, it's easy to see...

But the editor did state that the paper WILL (emphasis hers) go to press with the report at a later time.

We read about Joseph Goebbels and the suppression of freedom of press in history books. In some places of the world, his lineage is alive and well, apparently.

...

What was the merchant name on your credit card receipt? Ours said Chiang Mai Language Institute, not Mr. X.

[CMX]

In Medias Res

For clarity, it should be noted that the subjects of the Thai language course, the CEL course, and the TEFL courses were ALL under the umbrella of the university, whether one supposes that umbrella is a legal attachment or not. All have been shifted, changed, or disbanded in an abrupt fashion. This latest relocation and renaming, of the TEFL (perhaps far better attended than the language course), just shows that the University is distancing itself from TEFL as well - off campus, new name.

While the TEFL class was not directly part of the Thai language segment, this notice does illustrate that the University is (incidentally or accidentally) getting foreign students off campus and will lend itself to further anti-U rumors and accusations as to the reasons for the U's actions. That CEL students have found no alternatives at all except their own efforts at obtaining visas or one day recovering moneys after considerable effort (if they try), adds doubtless to the rumors and accusations, based on the appearance that Chiang Mai University is putting students who are not fully matriculated off campus. That may be the case, and unfortunate conclusions might be drawn. Still, the news about TEFL being moved appears to be reliable and solid evidence going to the entire puzzle.

Certainly the TEFL announcement does nothing to show that the University is making effortls to make whole those who were harmed in any of the programs; those who keep defending the U spastically are being cavalier with the harm done.

[Austeyr]

For clarity, it should be noted that the subjects of the Thai language course, the CEL course, and the TEFL courses were ALL under the umbrella of the university, whether one supposes that umbrella is a legal attachment or not. This latest relocation and renaming, of the TEFL (arguably, far better attended than the language course), just shows that the University is distancing itself from TEFL as well - off campus, new name.

While the TEFL class clearly not part of the Thai language segment, it does illustrate that the University is (incidentally or accidentally) getting farang students off campus and will lend itself to further anti-U rumors and accusations as to the reasons for the U's actions. That CEL students have found no alternatives at all except their own efforts at obtaining visas, adds doubtless to the rumors and accusations that Chiang Mai University is putting students who are not fully matriculated off campus and that while that may be the case, unfortunate conclusions might be drawn. Still, the news about TEFL being moved appears to be reliable and solid evidence going to the entire puzzle.

Certainly the TEFL announcement does nothing to show that the University is making efforts to make whole those who were harmed in any of the programs.

The new TEFL program as stated has NOTHING to do with CMU, except that it is an INDEPENDENT new TEFL certification (noone is employed or affiliated with CMU at ALL!) Remember alot of people lost their jobs after CMU closed down the programs. The reason for the letter being sent out to ex TEFL student's is to inform them that even though CMU has closed its TEFL program their old certification still holds the same weight when applying for jobs and if people were still looking for the same standard of training the old trainers are setting up a new independent company.

[newbie001]

I still do not see why unrelated things to the original post are still being thrown around with more abundance than the original and important focus of the OP. There has been too many posts filled with hearsay and misinformation.

CMX

"While the TEFL class clearly not part of the Thai language segment, it does illustrate that the University is (incidentally or accidentally) getting farang students off campus and will lend itself to further anti-U rumors and accusations as to the reasons for the U's actions."

I still don't see why you need to constantly accuse others of racist and discriminatory practices.

If that were the case, then why is LICMU re-starting Thai language and is also trying to put together another TEFL.

The issue with IUS is simple. They were formed a few months ago because LICMU was trying to gain total control of these programs. There was a management shift and some office politics that created the schism. Matthew didn't want to lose out on the courses that he created and lose the profits to LICMU fully.

Matthew in an attempt to salvage his control over the TEFL course that he started at CMU now moved location to the "OFFICE" on Hangdong road. It is now called UniTEFL. When I checked in over there it looked as if there were about 15 or so students. At 50K a head is a nice chunk of change that Matthew doesn't have to share with LICMU anylonger.

I don't see how he was able to get a business license and work permit to run a legal opperation in this time, but again that is off topic.

The other Classes at LICMU that Matthew and the former director Sansannee started were also affected because again because of office politics and LICMU wanted to have Auttonomy over all courses there.

It is not because of race or not wanting white students at LICMU. These unfounded accusations are not helping the situation.

I doubt that anything new will come of this until the civil trial.

[Austeyr]

I still do not see why unrelated things to the original post are still being thrown around with more abundance than the original and important focus of the OP. There has been too many posts filled with hearsay and misinformation.

CMX

"While the TEFL class clearly not part of the Thai language segment, it does illustrate that the University is (incidentally or accidentally) getting farang students off campus and will lend itself to further anti-U rumors and accusations as to the reasons for the U's actions."

I still don't see why you need to constantly accuse others of racist and discriminatory practices.

If that were the case, then why is LICMU re-starting Thai language and is also trying to put together another TEFL.

The issue with IUS is simple. They were formed a few months ago because LICMU was trying to gain total control of these programs. There was a management shift and some office politics that created the schism. Matthew didn't want to lose out on the courses that he created and lose the profits to LICMU fully.

Matthew in an attempt to salvage his control over the TEFL course that he started at CMU now moved location to the "OFFICE" on Hangdong road. It is now called UniTEFL. When I checked in over there it looked as if there were about 15 or so students. At 50K a head is a nice chunk of change that Matthew doesn't have to share with LICMU anylonger.

I don't see how he was able to get a business license and work permit to run a legal opperation in this time, but again that is off topic.

The other Classes at LICMU that Matthew and the former director Sansannee started were also affected because again because of office politics and LICMU wanted to have Auttonomy over all courses there.

It is not because of race or not wanting white students at LICMU. These unfounded accusations are not helping the situation.

I doubt that anything new will come of this until the civil trial.

This is not entirely true, the current students had already signed up with CMU and their money was kept in LICMU merchant account which in under control of LICMU. The course ran this month so the students wouldn't have issues with refunds and end up in the same boat as the other programs. The new company currently being setup will not be run by Dr Kay.

[Mario2008]

Unless we stop discussing what might be behind the problems with the language course this thread will be closed as such discussion borders on libel and the good names of people and institutions are at stake here.

Discuss what options people have and give information about courses, but stop posting rumours and accusations about what happend and who is to blame.

[naboo]

 

For those of you who are wondering what happened to the link to the Chiang Mai Mail report (Post #94), well the editor has taken the whole report down because... well, I can't really say because I've promised confidentiality. But let me think out loud... clearly there are two major sides in this current scandal, if, and I'm just saying IF, one of them was exerting pressure on the editor to remove the report, I wonder which side may that be... There. If you did follow the link and read up prior to its removal, or better yet have printed out a copy like I did, it's easy to see...

But the editor did state that the paper WILL (emphasis hers) go to press with the report at a later time.

Chiang Mai Mail facebook page states "offer our apologies for the delay in publishing, unforeseen circumstances have forced us to come out a few days late. Expect your papers in a couple of days." Change of front page? 

[heybruce]

Unless we stop discussing what might be behind the problems with the language course this thread will be closed as such discussion borders on libel and the good names of people and institutions are at stake here.

Discuss what options people have and give information about courses, but stop posting rumours and accusations about what happend and who is to blame.

May I also add that the people affected by this fiasco don't care about management problems at CMU, don't care who is being blamed and who is really at fault, and don't care if certain people do or don't have a PhD. We want to know if we will get the classes we paid for or get a refund, if we can still legally remain in Thailand, and what our options are if our visas are no longer valid.

In short, we want useful information, not opinions and speculation, and we especially don't want libelous speculation that will cause this thread to be closed.

[electracm]

For those of you who are wondering what happened to the link to the Chiang Mai Mail report (Post #94), well the editor has taken the whole report down because... well, I can't really say because I've promised confidentiality. But let me think out loud... clearly there are two major sides in this current scandal, if, and I'm just saying IF, one of them was exerting pressure on the editor to remove the report, I wonder which side may that be... There. If you did follow the link and read up prior to its removal, or better yet have printed out a copy like I did, it's easy to see...

But the editor did state that the paper WILL (emphasis hers) go to press with the report at a later time.

Chiang Mai Mail facebook page states "offer our apologies for the delay in publishing, unforeseen circumstances have forced us to come out a few days late. Expect your papers in a couple of days." Change of front page?

Am I going mad or did I read in the current online CM Mail's news page a letter from the Pattaya-based Indian owner that the paper, from now on, would only be online?

I remember the last time this happened -- don;'t sit on a hot stove wating for updates to anything on that site inless its pics of hi-so local Thai digitaries like the prez of CMU.

And, by the way, if the CMU comments page was removed, it's unlikely to have been done by the managing editor, Shona, it'll have been done by either Malhotra (the owner ) or by the Thai editor. So much for a paper for the expat community.

[Loaded]

I don't see how he was able to get a business license and work permit to run a legal opperation in this time, but again that is off topic.

When the TEFL was run at the LI it was described as CMU accredited. That's no longer the case. You don't rent office space and have a Ministry of Education licensed school the following week. School licenses are difficult to obtain and requirements are strict and include such things as an engineer's building report. The whole process takes 18 - 24 months. Possibly, to support their claim, someone from UniTEFL can post their school licence number and the MoE area office they are registered with. This isn't off topic as it affects UniTEFL students who signed up for a CMULI program (Austeyr's post #130).

[Mapguy]

Can't help but sympathize with HeyBruce's and others' frustration about the dearth of substantive information. And, even when obtained, it appears that what might work for one person won't work for another.

Regarding one frustration with visiting the local bank, the local bank is not the end of the line. The bank has a headquarters office, and there is the credit card company which also has offices in Asia. You'd want to include all the relevant information and evidence, of course, and I can't help but think that collaborating with others in the same circumstances might help. There is a PM function to get in touch.

Then, of course, there might be a civil suit. If so, information on that should be shared. But I don't see where that is. There is a PM function to get organized, if people are interested in doing so.

Is TV the appropriate place for individuals or groups to share information, plan and take action? It seems a Google group, or something of that nature, would be a better choice than an open forum for that kind of thing. That doesn't mean that announcements or general news and updates wouldn't be welcome or inappropriate in open forum. I am not suggesting the thread be closed. No one I am sure would ever like to see anything like this unfortunate situation arise again.

[Austeyr]

I don't see how he was able to get a business license and work permit to run a legal opperation in this time, but again that is off topic.

When the TEFL was run at the LI it was described as CMU accredited. That's no longer the case. You don't rent office space and have a Ministry of Education licensed school the following week. School licenses are difficult to obtain and requirements are strict and include such things as an engineer's building report. The whole process takes 18 - 24 months. Possibly, to support their claim, someone from UniTEFL can post their school licence number and the MoE area office they are registered with. This isn't off topic as it affects UniTEFL students who signed up for a CMULI program (Austeyr's post #130).

[electracm]

Can't help but sympathize with HeyBruce's and others' frustration about the dearth of substantive information. And, even when obtained, it appears that what might work for one person won't work for another.

Regarding one frustration with visiting the local bank, the local bank is not the end of the line. The bank has a headquarters office, and there is the credit card company which also has offices in Asia. You'd want to include all the relevant information and evidence, of course, and I can't help but think that collaborating with others in the same circumstances might help. There is a PM function to get in touch.

Then, of course, there might be a civil suit. If so, information on that should be shared. But I don't see where that is. There is a PM function to get organized, if people are interested in doing so.

Is TV the appropriate place for individuals or groups to share information, plan and take action? It seems a Google group, or something of that nature, would be a better choice than an open forum for that kind of thing. That doesn't mean that announcements or general news and updates wouldn't be welcome or inappropriate in open forum. I am not suggesting the thread be closed. No one I am sure would ever like to see anything like this unfortunate situation arise again.

last para, good idea -- especially the Google group bit.

Update for Brits -- no surprise really , but the consulate is less than helpful. Added to that, when the Thai girl at the desk is told about specific problems caused by CMU , comments such as ' have you spoken with Dr Reif'?, 'a lot of people were getting visas and not going to classes', and 'this is causing CMU many problems' are being given out as replies. Common sense obviously doesn't apply here, not does interpersonal communications training.

Just eaxctly what devastated Brits need to hear from a woman working in the Brit Consulate, especially when they're trying to piece together their shattered lives, not to mention their bank accounts!

It's not the first time I've heard this from a Thai person with good English who's been closely associated with many farangs. Yesterday I was told by such a person that those affected should sue the the two farang girls who were helping to run the Cultural Exchange Programme , one of whom was on salary from CMU and the other was working part time and was only here for a three-month stay anyway.

Tells it all, guys

[electracm]

I don't see how he was able to get a business license and work permit to run a legal opperation in this time, but again that is off topic.

When the TEFL was run at the LI it was described as CMU accredited. That's no longer the case. You don't rent office space and have a Ministry of Education licensed school the following week. School licenses are difficult to obtain and requirements are strict and include such things as an engineer's building report. The whole process takes 18 - 24 months. Possibly, to support their claim, someone from UniTEFL can post their school licence number and the MoE area office they are registered with. This isn't off topic as it affects UniTEFL students who signed up for a CMULI program (Austeyr's post #130).

Are you thinking of joining TEFL course? If not, why post what you did? It might not be off your topic, but squabbling about who's got what won't help the majority. If you don't like Matt, just go and tell him. Better yet, asklo see the paperwork, then you'll know for sure.

This is not about individuals any more, it's about an entire group of people, MOST of whom have landed in s**t street due to no fault of their own, and are increasingly finding that the legal options regarding getting visas are no longer open to them as they have 'mor chor' written in their passports.

[Beanster1]

When the TEFL was run at the LI it was described as CMU accredited. That's no longer the case. You don't rent office space and have a Ministry of Education licensed school the following week. School licenses are difficult to obtain and requirements are strict and include such things as an engineer's building report. The whole process takes 18 - 24 months. Possibly, to support their claim, someone from UniTEFL can post their school licence number and the MoE area office they are registered with. This isn't off topic as it affects UniTEFL students who signed up for a CMULI program (Austeyr's post #130).

Loaded,

It's plain for anyone to see that you have some kind of axe to grind. My guess is you are a TEFL provider and you don't want any competition.

The information you have been adding to this thread has been of no benefit to the people who have been caught up in this mess.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all!

[Mapguy]

My goodness!  A couple of cheap shots above, one at the  << girl >>  at the British consulate and one at another poster. That won't help anything. Before, I believe some wrote of saying nasty things to a staff member at ILCMU.  That won't solve anything,either.  Then there was a totally irrelevant reference to Joseph Goebbels that seemed astonishingly off the wall!  Oy! <br /><br />First, perhaps the background occasionally provided here will help in understanding the past and current situations.<br /><br />Second, maligning a staff member at the British consulate is beyond me.  The poor person (in a very small office)has probably been deluged with people venting their frustration and might be getting more than a little impatient with dealing with it.  (Shades of inappropriate behavior at the immigration office that people witness there every day!)  Well, the frustration is certainly understandable, but in my opinion, dealing with visa matters with the Thai immigration officials and arrangements (such as university admission) are really personal matters of individual choice and consequence.  <br /><br />And why, indeed should one expect a consulate to get involved?  It is remarkable, to name another consulate, how sympathetic the US Consulate apparently has been!  But sympathy and a little commonsensical advice is about as far as one should reasonably expect.  Unless you want new developments you are eager to hear take a worse direction than they are, then you might change your approach.

[NancyL]

Yes, the U.S. Consulate has been symphathic and seem to "feel our pain". They must have come on board during the Clinton era. Yet, they haven't actually done anything to help us get our money returned or to restore visas to the many who lost them. Nor have they provided any meanful advice for those of us who want to do volunteer work while holding an O-A retirement visa. I suspect they're continuing to grant visas to CMU students who want to study in the United States, as well. What sets them apart from the British is that the staff has had better training in what to say to those of us with problems.

[electracm]

My goodness! A couple of cheap shots above, one at the << girl >> at the British consulate and one at another poster. That won't help anything. Before, I believe some wrote of saying nasty things to a staff member at ILCMU. That won't solve anything,either. Then there was a totally irrelevant reference to Joseph Goebbels that seemed astonishingly off the wall! Oy! <br /><br />First, perhaps the background occasionally provided here will help in understanding the past and current situations.<br /><br />Second, maligning a staff member at the British consulate is beyond me. The poor person (in a very small office)has probably been deluged with people venting their frustration and might be getting more than a little impatient with dealing with it. (Shades of inappropriate behavior at the immigration office that people witness there every day!) Well, the frustration is certainly understandable, but in my opinion, dealing with visa matters with the Thai immigration officials and arrangements (such as university admission) are really personal matters of individual choice and consequence. <br /><br />And why, indeed should one expect a consulate to get involved? It is remarkable, to name another consulate, how sympathetic the US Consulate apparently has been! But sympathy and a little commonsensical advice is about as far as one should reasonably expect. Unless you want new developments you are eager to hear take a worse direction than they are, then you might change your approach.

Hey, lady, I forget how many times in the 5 years I've been here I've been down to immigration -- I've never yet seen any farang being rude or unpleasant to the staff there.

As regards consular involvements, our taxes in our home countries pay these guys. I missed the reference to the appalling and late Joe Goebels -- perhaps you could point me to its, I need a good laugh right now. Please also try to remember that for some visas one has to get a letter from one's consulate to verify certain requirements. Which, obviously, involves them in visa matters.

Us Brits don't take agin the Yanks because their consuls are almost always supportive and helpful, but we do get annoyed when ours behaves in the traditional Brit Consulate manner, as it has been doing since we owned half the world.

Mods, sorry about this slightly off topic post - won't do it again, promise!

[electracm]

My goodness! A couple of cheap shots above, one at the << girl >> at the British consulate and one at another poster. That won't help anything. Before, I believe some wrote of saying nasty things to a staff member at ILCMU. That won't solve anything,either. Then there was a totally irrelevant reference to Joseph Goebbels that seemed astonishingly off the wall! Oy! <br /><br />First, perhaps the background occasionally provided here will help in understanding the past and current situations.<br /><br />Second, maligning a staff member at the British consulate is beyond me. The poor person (in a very small office)has probably been deluged with people venting their frustration and might be getting more than a little impatient with dealing with it. (Shades of inappropriate behavior at the immigration office that people witness there every day!) Well, the frustration is certainly understandable, but in my opinion, dealing with visa matters with the Thai immigration officials and arrangements (such as university admission) are really personal matters of individual choice and consequence. <br /><br />And why, indeed should one expect a consulate to get involved? It is remarkable, to name another consulate, how sympathetic the US Consulate apparently has been! But sympathy and a little commonsensical advice is about as far as one should reasonably expect. Unless you want new developments you are eager to hear take a worse direction than they are, then you might change your approach.

Hey, lady, I forget how many times in the 5 years I've been here I've been down to immigration -- I've never yet seen any farang being rude or unpleasant to the staff there.

As regards consular involvements, our taxes in our home countries pay these guys. I missed the reference to the appalling and late Joe Goebels -- perhaps you could point me to its, I need a good laugh right now. Please also try to remember that for some visas one has to get a letter from one's consulate to verify certain requirements. Which, obviously, involves them in visa matters.

Us Brits don't take agin the Yanks because their consuls are almost always supportive and helpful, but we do get annoyed when ours behaves in the traditional Brit Consulate manner, as it has been doing since we owned half the world.

Mods, sorry about this slightly off topic post - won't do it again, promise!

I also dumped the post in the wrong place -- was trying to reply to the lady with the asterisk fixation! sorry again , mapguy....

[Loaded]

Yes, the U.S. Consulate has been symphathic and seem to "feel our pain". They must have come on board during the Clinton era. Yet, they haven't actually done anything to help us get our money returned or to restore visas to the many who lost them. Nor have they provided any meanful advice for those of us who want to do volunteer work while holding an O-A retirement visa. I suspect they're continuing to grant visas to CMU students who want to study in the United States, as well. What sets them apart from the British is that the staff has had better training in what to say to those of us with problems.

Hi Nancy,

For people on a non-immigrant O-A the MFA's website states: "Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited." which I believe also covers volunteering.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493

In addition, other than an agreement between Thailand and NZ/Australia for young people, I have never seen any official information stating it's legal to volunteer without a work permit. You can confirm this by visiting the Ministry of Labor on the Mae Rim road. I'm sure they will also advise you on what paperwork you will need to volunteer in Thailand.

There is a special visa for volunteering: non-immigrant O

"Other activities such as visiting Thai spouse, children, parents, voluntary job (Category "O")"

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/newversion/visa/visa_ni.html

And a work permit can then be obtained sponsored by your volunteering organization/foundation.

Consuls only offer consular services which normally means telling you where, what and how. It's my understanding they never become involved in conflicts and will not be of much help to anyone regarding what's happened recently - it's not their job.

You might be better reporting to Phuping police station your complaint as I believe this is the police station coordinating complaints regarding this whole fiasco.

[mesquite]

Yes, the U.S. Consulate has been symphathic and seem to "feel our pain". They must have come on board during the Clinton era.

Good one!

[wynzlo]

Well, it's the first time I've had anything good to say about Bank of America, but they just reversed the 18,000 baht charge from CMU on my Visa card. They even refunded the foreign transaction fee - I'm impressed.

FYI, I filed the disputed 70-80 days after the charge, and shortly after they mailed a letter to my US address requesting further documentation. I faxed them copies of the emails I received from IUS and messages I sent to LICMU (that got no response). About a week later they reversed the charges.

For anyone who used a card for their payment it's probably worth filing a dispute, even if months have passed. I wish you luck!

[MelissaShmanders]

I've just read through this entire thread and all of the previous (closed) thread dedicated to this topic. Naturally I'm exhausted and frustrated.

I am one of the students caught in this clusterf**k. I paid my tuition, in cash, at the end of September, apparently after this had broken, but I was unaware as I had just arrived in CM. I had a similar experience as a previous poster; the woman named Gill took me to another room where I paid my tuition to one Thai woman, and then walked across the room to another desk where a Thai woman named Aun gave me a letter for the Thai embassy in Vientiane. I met Matt Kay that day. He signed my letter and seemed in good spirits while we chatted. At this point, I was told that FEU was picking up the program and I would get information regarding my class schedule via email. As we all know, none of this happened. In fact, I was never even able to attend a single class. I just found this thread today and I agree with those posters who wish this to remain open as it is the only source of information I have at this time.

What I really want at this point is is advice from you all! I am still in the first 90 days of my non-Imm ED visa, which expires Dec 24. Am I going to get in trouble for over-stay when I try to leave? Can anyone suggest a Thai language program that can help me extend my visa beyond this? I am only able to stay until April, and thanks to this mess I can't afford much, so unfortunately a cheap program is better than a GOOD program (sorry, I really do want to study Thai, but after losing all my money to CMU I have to take value over quality).

Also, can someone PM me Matt Kay's email? Somehow my poor timing with enrollment has left me excluded from the mass emails other students have received, and I was only ever in direct email contact with Gill and Aun.

[electracm]

I've just read through this entire thread and all of the previous (closed) thread dedicated to this topic. Naturally I'm exhausted and frustrated.

I am one of the students caught in this clusterf**k. I paid my tuition, in cash, at the end of September, apparently after this had broken, but I was unaware as I had just arrived in CM. I had a similar experience as a previous poster; the woman named Gill took me to another room where I paid my tuition to one Thai woman, and then walked across the room to another desk where a Thai woman named Aun gave me a letter for the Thai embassy in Vientiane. I met Matt Kay that day. He signed my letter and seemed in good spirits while we chatted. At this point, I was told that FEU was picking up the program and I would get information regarding my class schedule via email. As we all know, none of this happened. In fact, I was never even able to attend a single class. I just found this thread today and I agree with those posters who wish this to remain open as it is the only source of information I have at this time.

What I really want at this point is is advice from you all! I am still in the first 90 days of my non-Imm ED visa, which expires Dec 24. Am I going to get in trouble for over-stay when I try to leave? Can anyone suggest a Thai language program that can help me extend my visa beyond this? I am only able to stay until April, and thanks to this mess I can't afford much, so unfortunately a cheap program is better than a GOOD program (sorry, I really do want to study Thai, but after losing all my money to CMU I have to take value over quality).

Also, can someone PM me Matt Kay's email? Somehow my poor timing with enrollment has left me excluded from the mass emails other students have received, and I was only ever in direct email contact with Gill and Aun.

Sorry to hear of your problems! As far as I understand the situation and the way it's been interpeted by Immigration, you have been in overstay ever since your visa was issued. The three existing programs, as you may now know, were cancelled from 30 September with only three days' notice , and only a few people seem to have managed to get even the 7 day extensions necessary to make other, albeit temporary, arrangements.

Someone close to me was able, on his 1-year visa expiry date 13 days after the cancellation, to get 7 days, after which he did the Mae Sai visa run and got 15 days, the entitlement for entering Thailand on foot, renewable once. My 1-year visa ran out on the same day, leaving me on overstay for 13 days. I was refused the 7 day extension and was not allowed to convert to a 1-year Ed visa with another language school, although the Ministry of Education had signed the papers and I had paid for the language course. My only option was a Mae Sai run, I'm also now on the 15 day tourist entry and paid my overstay fee at Mae Sai.. Other options are being worked out for both of us by my lawyer. We've been resident here for several years.

One thing you should note is that an old and rarely used immigration rule has recently been reintroduced, in that overstay up to 21 days can just be paid for at 500 baht per day, but between 21 and 42 days, you may need to do some explaining to prevent arrest or deportation. After 42 days, arrest is mandatory, plus a large fine. The cap for overstay fines is 20,000 baht. I haven't yet heard of anyone being in this situtation, but it's best to be aware.

I'm no expert on this but your best bet would seem to be to return to Vientaine and get a three-month tourist visa, which, hopefully will get you out of the trap of being associated with CMU. From what I've heard recently, CM Immigration are not deperately thrilled with CMU for helping to creat this mess and may not be sympathetic to anyone caught up in it --however good their intentions. . I also received legal advice that it would be a good idea to avoid any education visa at any CM language school at present. The source of that advice is totally trusted. If you can get a three-month visa, you can study Thai anywhere in the city, even privately

PM me for more if you need to, best of luck.

[Loaded]

...you have been in overstay ever since your visa was issued...

I believe the original visa and its period of validity are still valid. It's extensions based on studying at the CMU LI that are now cancelled. The overstay period started the day the extension was cancelled by CMU LI

..after which he did the Mae Sai visa run and got 15 days, the entitlement for entering Thailand on foot, renewable once..

I believe visa-exempt permissions to stay of 15 days are limited by number of days within a given period (6 months I think) and not by the number of border crossings. IE they're renewable more than once.

...I'm no expert on this but your best bet would seem to be to return to Vientaine and get a three-month tourist visa...

...If you can get a three-month visa, you can study Thai anywhere in the city, even privately...

A single-entry tourist visa is normally valid for 60 days but it can be extended at Chiang Mai's immigration office by another 30 days. You'll need to visit a Thai consulate or embassy to obtain one.

I believe you can study Thai on a tourist visa or a non-immigrant visa. However, only non-immigrant visas can be extended to allow long-term stays. That was the main attraction for quite a few people.