Foreigners Can Make A Difference

[evanson]

If foreigners really want to help Thais learn English, they could make a big difference by speaking slowly and clearly in proper English, not talking pidgin English or baby talk.

I've tried that, and they still speak pidgin next time I see them. Maybe they're just thick

[britmaveric]

^if you talk normally and you get a blank look then revert to tinglish and they understand which is the best approach for communication?

[mca]

^if you talk normally and you get a blank look then revert to tinglish and they understand which is the best approach for communication?

With some of the westerners I know it seems to be by raising your voice.

"Marlboro Red........MARLBORO RED................MARLBORO RED!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[mark45y]

It's unfortunate that someone trying to make a positive difference is getting waylaid like this. Sure, I can think of a few reasons why he's wrong, but so what? The difference his that he is trying to do something good. Heck of a lot better than the pervs that seek out the barely legal waifs and say that if it wasn't for their "kindness" to pay for a hardluck case to engage in acts of depravity, the person would starve, blah blah blah. Let the OP do his thing. He's not hurting anyone and just might be helping someone live a better life.

Another absolutely perfect example of ethnocentrism.

The pervs are not breaking Thai law.

The OP is breaking Thai law.

You are judging Thailand by your culture which you wear like a turtle in Thailand. Your shell protects you from the realities of Thailand.

And you don't know you are wrong, ethically morally and culturally. You are in Thailand, man.

You would have been right at home being a missionary and saving the savages all around the world.

You don't get it do you? You think your morals and culture superior to the immoral Thai speaking Thais.

The British Empire is gone. You don't tell Africans, Indians and Asians and Canadians what to do anymore. Get over it.

I have lived with the same woman now for three years. She speaks less English now than when I met her. If she wants to learn to speak English she can go to school. I speak Thai.

Instead or worrying about or spending your time wondering how Thais will speak English try learning or perfecting your Thai speaking ability.

But that wouldn't register would it. It is not colonial.

It might be a good idea to teach Thais how to speak Thai well before starting on English. It may be a good idea to teach Thais some Thai history or a number of other subjects that are appropriate to Thailand.

Try learning Thai and translating some books that are useful from English to Thai. But you wouldn't attempt to try and do some basic sanitation texts or biology books because that is not colonial is it? Naw, let the natives speak English it is obviously a superior language. Everyone knows that, at least everyone in the British Empire. Wait, there is no British Empire anymore.

[F1fanatic]

It's unfortunate that someone trying to make a positive difference is getting waylaid like this. Sure, I can think of a few reasons why he's wrong, but so what? The difference his that he is trying to do something good. Heck of a lot better than the pervs that seek out the barely legal waifs and say that if it wasn't for their "kindness" to pay for a hardluck case to engage in acts of depravity, the person would starve, blah blah blah. Let the OP do his thing. He's not hurting anyone and just might be helping someone live a better life.

Another absolutely perfect example of ethnocentrism.

The pervs are not breaking Thai law.

The OP is breaking Thai law.

You are judging Thailand by your culture which you wear like a turtle in Thailand. Your shell protects you from the realities of Thailand.

And you don't know you are wrong, ethically morally and culturally. You are in Thailand, man.

You would have been right at home being a missionary and saving the savages all around the world.

You don't get it do you? You think your morals and culture superior to the immoral Thai speaking Thais.

The British Empire is gone. You don't tell Africans, Indians and Asians and Canadians what to do anymore. Get over it.

I have lived with the same woman now for three years. She speaks less English now than when I met her. If she wants to learn to speak English she can go to school. I speak Thai.

Instead or worrying about or spending your time wondering how Thais will speak English try learning or perfecting your Thai speaking ability.

But that wouldn't register would it. It is not colonial.

It might be a good idea to teach Thais how to speak Thai well before starting on English. It may be a good idea to teach Thais some Thai history or a number of other subjects that are appropriate to Thailand.

Try learning Thai and translating some books that are useful from English to Thai. But you wouldn't attempt to try and do some basic sanitation texts or biology books because that is not colonial is it? Naw, let the natives speak English it is obviously a superior language. Everyone knows that, at least everyone in the British Empire. Wait, there is no British Empire anymore.

Enjoyed your rant enormously (and agreed with a lot of it) but, AMERICANS - the super-power on earth at the moment, speak English. So it has to be beneficial to speak English for ALL other countries if they are involved in business and wish to communicate with foreign countries.

Even here, the second language is English - because of the world-wide influence of America - it has nothing to do with Britain anymore.

Farangs here (from whatever country) have to generally communicate in English with Thais.

[mark45y]

And now that I have dealt with our resident do gooder and savior of the world I can be realistic.

Except on the teachers forum no one ever gets busted for not having a work permit teaching. Maybe 20% of the English teachers in Thailand have a work permit and another 20% a degree.

I have yet to see any documentation of more than 5 English teachers in the past ten years busted for not having a work permit.

This is not the teachers forum and no one is going to read it so you teachers can relax, reality is not going to flood the market with illegal teachers.

I think it is nice that the OP is trying to do something for Thailand.

But honestly English is so far down the list on things that need to be done it only serves to exaggerate his newness to Thailand.

So you are an ex military person and all you know is how to speak English and kill people. Teaching Thais how to kill people efficiently although probably necessary is going to be a big problem. There was that Swat guy in Pattaya and I think his yellow SUV is for sale but he did not come to a good end.

There is also the volunteer police gig but that can be unsavory with all the hookers and drugs and things. This is Thailand and cops are not the same as in the west but enough has been said about that in other threads.

So what does that leave you to do? Go to school and learn to speak fluent Thai. Then everything will become clear to you.

Right now you think you know what is going on but you don't. Keep your English mouth shut and speak only in Thai. After 5 years maybe 10 understanding will come.

Good luck and remember the only person you are really in control of is yourself. The only person you can really help is yourself. Be a good person. Learn how to speak the language of the country you live in and the rest will be obvious. Buddha will tell you about the same thing. I am not Buddha, in case anyone was wondering.

[geriatrickid]

This is classic;

And you don't know you are wrong, ethically morally and culturally. You are in Thailand, man.

You would have been right at home being a missionary and saving the savages all around the world.

You don't get it do you? You think your morals and culture superior to the immoral Thai speaking Thais.

The British Empire is gone.

Too funny.

1. I am not wrong. Character and class is common to all cultures. And by class, I am not talking about driving a big car and wearing gold. One can be destitute and still have class and be able to differentiate between right and wrong. Either you have it or you don't.

2. I don't know about the missionary thing, but perhaps my rigidity on some issues is because I understand what happens when one goes "jungle".

3. I do get it. The "morals" you denigrate are a product of the code of conduct I am obliged to follow. Some of my Thai friends follow an even stricter code of conduct. I suppose if I was running a beer bar selling women to junketeers I would have a different outlook. My employment conditions run 7 pages. The privacy convention runs 10 pages.

4. The British Empire is not gone. it lives on in its legacy of government, laws, education and sense of justice. The sun will never set on the British Empire as long as the belief as parliamentary democracy, equitable laws and fairness exist. England may suffer some rot, but here are places in this world where all that was good about England live on. One can go to Barbados and find that the locals speak a higher quality of english than the English, where the government tries to do the right thing and where manners still exist. I shall no put on my pith helmet and call for my batboy to fetch the carriage and go for a tour of the estate. (Translation: Put on the crappy Chinese made helmet, mooch a lift from my friend and drive through traffic.)

[F1fanatic]

This is classic;

And you don't know you are wrong, ethically morally and culturally. You are in Thailand, man.

You would have been right at home being a missionary and saving the savages all around the world.

You don't get it do you? You think your morals and culture superior to the immoral Thai speaking Thais.

The British Empire is gone.

Too funny.

1. I am not wrong. Character and class is common to all cultures. And by class, I am not talking about driving a big car and wearing gold. One can be destitute and still have class and be able to differentiate between right and wrong. Either you have it or you don't.

2. I don't know about the missionary thing, but perhaps my rigidity on some issues is because I understand what happens when one goes "jungle".

3. I do get it. The "morals" you denigrate are a product of the code of conduct I am obliged to follow. Some of my Thai friends follow an even stricter code of conduct. I suppose if I was running a beer bar selling women to junketeers I would have a different outlook. My employment conditions run 7 pages. The privacy convention runs 10 pages.

4. The British Empire is not gone. it lives on in its legacy of government, laws, education and sense of justice. The sun will never set on the British Empire as long as the belief as parliamentary democracy, equitable laws and fairness exist. England may suffer some rot, but here are places in this world where all that was good about England live on. One can go to Barbados and find that the locals speak a higher quality of english than the English, where the government tries to do the right thing and where manners still exist. I shall no put on my pith helmet and call for my batboy to fetch the carriage and go for a tour of the estate. (Translation: Put on the crappy Chinese made helmet, mooch a lift from my friend and drive through traffic.)

Unfortunately Britain is turning into a police state with no regard for democracy! Sorry - off-topic I know.

[GreenSnapper]

Why do people think that speaking English is the most necessary thing for Thais to be successful?

It is not. 99% of Thais don't need English at all. And those who need, can usually speak it too.

The knowledge of English in Japan is much more dismal than in Thailand. And Japan cannot be exactly called "unsuccessful".

[mark45y]

It's unfortunate that someone trying to make a positive difference is getting waylaid like this. Sure, I can think of a few reasons why he's wrong, but so what? The difference his that he is trying to do something good. Heck of a lot better than the pervs that seek out the barely legal waifs and say that if it wasn't for their "kindness" to pay for a hardluck case to engage in acts of depravity, the person would starve, blah blah blah. Let the OP do his thing. He's not hurting anyone and just might be helping someone live a better life.

Another absolutely perfect example of ethnocentrism.

The pervs are not breaking Thai law.

The OP is breaking Thai law.

You are judging Thailand by your culture which you wear like a turtle in Thailand. Your shell protects you from the realities of Thailand.

And you don't know you are wrong, ethically morally and culturally. You are in Thailand, man.

You would have been right at home being a missionary and saving the savages all around the world.

You don't get it do you? You think your morals and culture superior to the immoral Thai speaking Thais.

The British Empire is gone. You don't tell Africans, Indians and Asians and Canadians what to do anymore. Get over it.

I have lived with the same woman now for three years. She speaks less English now than when I met her. If she wants to learn to speak English she can go to school. I speak Thai.

Instead or worrying about or spending your time wondering how Thais will speak English try learning or perfecting your Thai speaking ability.

But that wouldn't register would it. It is not colonial.

It might be a good idea to teach Thais how to speak Thai well before starting on English. It may be a good idea to teach Thais some Thai history or a number of other subjects that are appropriate to Thailand.

Try learning Thai and translating some books that are useful from English to Thai. But you wouldn't attempt to try and do some basic sanitation texts or biology books because that is not colonial is it? Naw, let the natives speak English it is obviously a superior language. Everyone knows that, at least everyone in the British Empire. Wait, there is no British Empire anymore.

Enjoyed your rant enormously (and agreed with a lot of it) but, AMERICANS - the super-power on earth at the moment, speak English. So it has to be beneficial to speak English for ALL other countries if they are involved in business and wish to communicate with foreign countries.

Even here, the second language is English - because of the world-wide influence of America - it has nothing to do with Britain anymore.

Farangs here (from whatever country) have to generally communicate in English with Thais.

Spanish is quickly becoming a second language in America as is French in Canada. I have four daughters and they are all fluent in both Spanish and French.

English is truly the language of business but Thailand is a long ways away from needing any real fluency in English.

The fact that most Falang in Thailand communicate with Thais in English is amply and obviously demonstrated here on Thai Visa.

If more than a handful of posters here spoke Thai they would have at least a slight understanding of the culture.

America super power, yes I cringe. They make the British Empire seem moral, intelligent and in some cases even benevolent.

I'll admit it is funny hearing a German try to speak English to a woman one fourth his age who speaks only Lao in a Thai bar in Chiang Mai. At the same bar imagine an Aussie, Irishman and Scotsman trying to help. There are dialects in Scotland I imagine almost no one speaks. And if the Aussie is a bit drunk and starts rhyming stuff, well there you go.

China is doing well in business although speaking little English on a percentage basis. I would suggest there are many other things Thailand needs to be concerned about before language.

[F1fanatic]

It's unfortunate that someone trying to make a positive difference is getting waylaid like this. Sure, I can think of a few reasons why he's wrong, but so what? The difference his that he is trying to do something good. Heck of a lot better than the pervs that seek out the barely legal waifs and say that if it wasn't for their "kindness" to pay for a hardluck case to engage in acts of depravity, the person would starve, blah blah blah. Let the OP do his thing. He's not hurting anyone and just might be helping someone live a better life.

Another absolutely perfect example of ethnocentrism.

The pervs are not breaking Thai law.

The OP is breaking Thai law.

You are judging Thailand by your culture which you wear like a turtle in Thailand. Your shell protects you from the realities of Thailand.

And you don't know you are wrong, ethically morally and culturally. You are in Thailand, man.

You would have been right at home being a missionary and saving the savages all around the world.

You don't get it do you? You think your morals and culture superior to the immoral Thai speaking Thais.

The British Empire is gone. You don't tell Africans, Indians and Asians and Canadians what to do anymore. Get over it.

I have lived with the same woman now for three years. She speaks less English now than when I met her. If she wants to learn to speak English she can go to school. I speak Thai.

Instead or worrying about or spending your time wondering how Thais will speak English try learning or perfecting your Thai speaking ability.

But that wouldn't register would it. It is not colonial.

It might be a good idea to teach Thais how to speak Thai well before starting on English. It may be a good idea to teach Thais some Thai history or a number of other subjects that are appropriate to Thailand.

Try learning Thai and translating some books that are useful from English to Thai. But you wouldn't attempt to try and do some basic sanitation texts or biology books because that is not colonial is it? Naw, let the natives speak English it is obviously a superior language. Everyone knows that, at least everyone in the British Empire. Wait, there is no British Empire anymore.

Enjoyed your rant enormously (and agreed with a lot of it) but, AMERICANS - the super-power on earth at the moment, speak English. So it has to be beneficial to speak English for ALL other countries if they are involved in business and wish to communicate with foreign countries.

Even here, the second language is English - because of the world-wide influence of America - it has nothing to do with Britain anymore.

Farangs here (from whatever country) have to generally communicate in English with Thais.

Spanish is quickly becoming a second language in America as is French in Canada. I have four daughters and they are all fluent in both Spanish and French.

English is truly the language of business but Thailand is a long ways away from needing any real fluency in English.

The fact that most Falang in Thailand communicate with Thais in English is amply and obviously demonstrated here on Thai Visa.

If more than a handful of posters here spoke Thai they would have at least a slight understanding of the culture.

America super power, yes I cringe. They make the British Empire seem moral, intelligent and in some cases even benevolent.

I'll admit it is funny hearing a German try to speak English to a woman one fourth his age who speaks only Lao in a Thai bar in Chiang Mai. At the same bar imagine an Aussie, Irishman and Scotsman trying to help. There are dialects in Scotland I imagine almost no one speaks. And if the Aussie is a bit drunk and starts rhyming stuff, well there you go.

China is doing well in business although speaking little English on a percentage basis. I would suggest there are many other things Thailand needs to be concerned about before language.

"Percentage basis" doesn't really come into it - only a small minority in any country get involved in International business - but its always a good idea if you wish to progress as a business to speak the International language. Currently its English because of the Americans.

Don't know whether you check out the UK papers, but the American police seem to be well-behaved compared to the UK police at the moment . But I agree, the UK government seems to be more reticent than the American government.

As for speaking the Thai language to understand its culture - I'd disagree with that. One of my good friends has been here more than 20 years, speaks Thai pretty well and is more vocal in his criticisms of Thai culture than I am (having been here only 4 years)!

[sillyman99]

One of my good friends has been here more than 20 years, speaks Thai pretty well and is more vocal in his criticisms of Thai culture than I am (having been here only 4 years)!

So he hates Thailand more than you do ?

I don't believe it, nobody hates Thailand more than you.

Edited October 9, 2010 by sillyman99

[Ulysses G.]

They make the British Empire seem moral, intelligent and in some cases even benevolent.

Only because it is long gone.

[sarahsbloke]

Enjoyed your rant enormously (and agreed with a lot of it) but, AMERICANS - the super-power on earth at the moment, speak English. So it has to be beneficial to speak English for ALL other countries if they are involved in business and wish to communicate with foreign countries.

Even here, the second language is English - because of the world-wide influence of America - it has nothing to do with Britain anymore.

Farangs here (from whatever country) have to generally communicate in English with Thais.

I also enjoyed Markys rant (similar to my comment on the previous page)

but will have to disagree with you on the rest for the following reasons.

1) America is a failing superpower

2) Three times more people speak Mandarin than English

So from your logic, we should all be learning Mandarin, as there are more people speaking that language and China is becoming the new world superpower.

List of languages by number of speakers

As for speaking the Thai language to understand its culture - I'd disagree with that. One of my good friends has been here more than 20 years, speaks Thai pretty well and is more vocal in his criticisms of Thai culture than I am (having been here only 4 years)!

I don't believe understanding a culture means you have to agree with it.

I have a good understanding of American culture, British culture, and the culture of Nazi Germany. I didn't agree with any of them, but that doesn't reflect on my ability to speak the language!

PS

The list suggests more people speak Spanish than English .... but no Spanish speaking superpowers.

Edited October 10, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[IanForbes]

What was the original topic again?

Oh yah, foreigners making a difference. Some do and some don't. Nothing is etched in stone. Any little bit of extra knowledge MIGHT help someone at some point in their life. There is no way of telling. I've lived my whole life following one credo... never miss an opportunity to do anything reasonable. You never know where it might lead. And, most often it will enrich your life in some way.

[sarahsbloke]

Unfortunately Britain is turning into a police state with no regard for democracy! Sorry - off-topic I know.

Yep, sadly this is true.

[Kwasaki]

l help a local teacher and a school here when l am asked.

l certainly wouldn't worry about some guidelines in Thai law.

l don't see anything wrong with a Thai person speaking pidgin English either !! Pidgin is, what it is "quote" :-

A grammatically simplified form of a language, typically English, Dutch, or Portuguese, some elements of which are taken from local languages, used for communication between people not sharing a common language.

To be able to communicate thats the key, not a load of babble writen by self righteous people on here.

There was a notice in Maisot immigration helping people with reason for extention to stay :-

" My reason for extension to stay is l want to continue my voluntary missionary work. "

l know enough Thai to get by but l find l am nearly always understood better when l speak what is my Londoner accent.

Good on you " geriatrickid " you keep sticking to your guns the sanctimonious here will never win.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Kwasaki

[evanson]

F1fanatic

"Percentage basis" doesn't really come into it - only a small minority in any country get involved in International business - but its always a good idea if you wish to progress as a business to speak the International language. Currently its English because of the Americans.

Don't know whether you check out the UK papers, but the American police seem to be well-behaved compared to the UK police at the moment . But I agree, the UK government seems to be more reticent than the American government.

As for speaking the Thai language to understand its culture - I'd disagree with that. One of my good friends has been here more than 20 years, speaks Thai pretty well and is more vocal in his criticisms of Thai culture than I am (having been here only 4 years)!

What are you talking about 'currently'? What was it before, bloody Lithuanian? And it's not because of the Americans who came in albeit late, to help the British in their fighting the Germans in WW2. Otherwise the international language would be .... German.

And the reason, practically speaking, that Thais would like to learn to speak English is because they get better paying jobs.

[Thumpasuar]

And now that I have dealt with our resident do gooder and savior of the world I can be realistic.

Except on the teachers forum no one ever gets busted for not having a work permit teaching. Maybe 20% of the English teachers in Thailand have a work permit and another 20% a degree.

I have yet to see any documentation of more than 5 English teachers in the past ten years busted for not having a work permit.

This is not the teachers forum and no one is going to read it so you teachers can relax, reality is not going to flood the market with illegal teachers.

I think it is nice that the OP is trying to do something for Thailand.

But honestly English is so far down the list on things that need to be done it only serves to exaggerate his newness to Thailand.

So you are an ex military person and all you know is how to speak English and kill people. Teaching Thais how to kill people efficiently although probably necessary is going to be a big problem. There was that Swat guy in Pattaya and I think his yellow SUV is for sale but he did not come to a good end.

There is also the volunteer police gig but that can be unsavory with all the hookers and drugs and things. This is Thailand and cops are not the same as in the west but enough has been said about that in other threads.

So what does that leave you to do? Go to school and learn to speak fluent Thai. Then everything will become clear to you.

Right now you think you know what is going on but you don't. Keep your English mouth shut and speak only in Thai. After 5 years maybe 10 understanding will come.

Good luck and remember the only person you are really in control of is yourself. The only person you can really help is yourself. Be a good person. Learn how to speak the language of the country you live in and the rest will be obvious. Buddha will tell you about the same thing. I am not Buddha, in case anyone was wondering.

I hope these statistics are more accurate than you Florida Thailand comparison which was as the English say rubbish. But i agree with you we Farangs should be learning the language and the Thai's should know allot more about their own history than they should English. I feel like I know more about their history than most of my young peers here. Pass your own dam_n history class then go take the english class.

[LanxangBillybob]

Me always try help Thai learn English. Can.

[sarahsbloke]

History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker's dam_n is the history that we make today.

[Thumpasuar]

F1fanatic

"Percentage basis" doesn't really come into it - only a small minority in any country get involved in International business - but its always a good idea if you wish to progress as a business to speak the International language. Currently its English because of the Americans.

Don't know whether you check out the UK papers, but the American police seem to be well-behaved compared to the UK police at the moment . But I agree, the UK government seems to be more reticent than the American government.

As for speaking the Thai language to understand its culture - I'd disagree with that. One of my good friends has been here more than 20 years, speaks Thai pretty well and is more vocal in his criticisms of Thai culture than I am (having been here only 4 years)!

What are you talking about 'currently'? What was it before, bloody Lithuanian? And it's not because of the Americans who came in albeit late, to help the British in their fighting the Germans in WW2. Otherwise the international language would be .... German.

And the reason, practically speaking, that Thais would like to learn to speak English is because they get better paying jobs.

As you could imagine it would have been alot more benificial 50 years ago to know French in SE because the french colonised most of the surrounding area. It just would have depended on the local colonizing power. Which could have been any of the languages from the main super powers of Europe all the way down to little Portugal which was a global super power in the past.