Never Wai A Waitress

[tombkk]

Well, the analogy works. But if you choose to reject parts of Thai culture, you will not be respected fully, either.

It's a mirror. It's really up to you how much respect you give, and therefore can expect in return.

I guess I'm willing to sacrifice "respect" for my moral integrity.

You don't wai your maid because she's an employee despite her being older than you.

You don't return a wai from a begger after he displays his gratitude from receiving money from you.

I hold my tongue for other examples as it violates the forum rules.

There's no respect here, it's enforcing hierarchy in everyday life so you know your place. A wai isn't neutral like a handshake, if it was I would have no problem with it.

One thing is certain: The farangs who reject part of the culture will not change the culture. They will just stay outside. Some are content with that.

I find it hard to believe that a foreigner would have any influence on these nationalistic people.

Moral integrity? Being friendly and following the culture of the land jeopardizes your moral integrity? I am very surprised to hear that a wai is immoral. I guess we never stop learning new things.

And yes, respect for other people has to do with a social hierarchy, which also exists in your country. Did you read the website about Power Distance Index, and the differences between national cultures, I posted earlier? You seem to think that your country's culture is "right" and the culture of our host country is "wrong". And that satisfies your moral values?

It's really up to you whether you want to understand Thai culture or not. Nobody will force you to. But to judge the host country's culture as immoral is a bit questionable, IMHO.

[mca]

If somebody wais you, do it back (except for service staff because for want of a better work you'll look like a <deleted>)

Must be a lot of Thai <deleted> around then...

[makescents]

And yes, respect for other people has to do with a social hierarchy, which also exists in your country. Did you read the website about Power Distance Index, and the differences between national cultures, I posted earlier? You seem to think that your country's culture is "right" and the culture of our host country is "wrong". And that satisfies your moral values?

It's really up to you whether you want to understand Thai culture or not. Nobody will force you to. But to judge the host country's culture as immoral is a bit questionable, IMHO.

I absolutely do not think that my own country's culture is better than Thailand, the United Kingdom still has a class system ingrained within society, a state religion and a monarchy which I detest.

However you don't seem to get the point.

The wai is a greeting between people in Thailand similar to a western handshake but different due to the position of the hands and the order which people wai each other.

Younger people waing older or everybody waing monks I have no problem with; however classifying someone as inferior to yourself because of the occupation they hold, the region they were born or how wealthy they are is despicable.

Some website with arbritary statistics isn't going to change how I feel about inequality. The fact of the matter is that all countries should be sporting a 0 on that chart.

[canuckamuck]

I absolutely do not think that my own country's culture is better than Thailand, the United Kingdom still has a class system ingrained within society, a state religion and a monarchy which I detest.

However you don't seem to get the point.

The wai is a greeting between people in Thailand similar to a western handshake but different due to the position of the hands and the order which people wai each other.

Younger people waing older or everybody waing monks I have no problem with; however classifying someone as inferior to yourself because of the occupation they hold, the region they were born or how wealthy they are is despicable.

Some website with arbritary statistics isn't going to change how I feel about inequality. The fact of the matter is that all countries should be sporting a 0 on that chart.

[Xangsamhua]

Maybe the OP wasn't clear - old guy - 60ish, young waitress - 17 maybe

Guy walks into the place and wais her first.

This goes against ALL the rules - If you do it, you should stop unless you don't mind everyone having a laugh at your expense

Much better than some of the rude behaviour commonly on display from many 'expert farongs'.

Up yours.

Where's the green button? I want to give this post a plus.

[leininger]

Only people really concerned about all this waiing are farangs. Thai knows farangs mean well when they wai wrong people and think nothing of it. Most of pseudo-thais as they say here like to make an issue of this but really all waitress cares about is if you leave a tip. I say if you feel like wai then go ahead and if not then don't. Thai people only care if you treat them okay or not. If somebody wai me I do it back. If nobody wai I dont either.

Pseudo Thai are actually the <deleted>, but they don't seem to know it.

[Loz]

I absolutely do not think that my own country's culture is better than Thailand, the United Kingdom still has a class system ingrained within society, a state religion and a monarchy which I detest.

However you don't seem to get the point.

The wai is a greeting between people in Thailand similar to a western handshake but different due to the position of the hands and the order which people wai each other.

Younger people waing older or everybody waing monks I have no problem with; however classifying someone as inferior to yourself because of the occupation they hold, the region they were born or how wealthy they are is despicable.

Some website with arbritary statistics isn't going to change how I feel about inequality. The fact of the matter is that all countries should be sporting a 0 on that chart.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Loz

[toybits]

Totally agree. But I must also add - how low you bow when you wai.

Monks teaching novices how to wai will tell them that there are different kids of wais.

One type where you put your thumbs on your forehead is the highest type of wai. This is the type of wai you give to persons of really high position

Another type of wai is when you put your thumbs at the level of your nose - to honor your parents for giving you the breath of life.

The next one is when you put your thumbs at the level of your mouth - to honor your teachers.

The general wai is for friends where you put your thumbs in front of your chest.

Warning. Giving the wrong type of wai can insult someone else.

Thais usually forgive us farangs (foreigners) because we are too dumb to know the difference.

The hard and fast rule is, you never wai an inferior first.

If someone of a low order wais you, you should return it.

.......... it's not brain surgery.

It's not about who you do it to, it's about who does it first.

[IvanLaw]

When we return to Thailand & Call at the local resturant I :jap: the waitress

& it is always returned.

Maybe because she is my sisterinlaw?

[saraburioz]

When we return to Thailand & Call at the local resturant I :jap: the waitress

& it is always returned.

Maybe because she is my sisterinlaw?

I hope she issn't younger than you.

[luckizuchinni]

When we return to Thailand & Call at the local resturant I :jap: the waitress

& it is always returned.

Maybe because she is my sisterinlaw?

I hope she issn't younger than you.

Why? You haven't really ever answered why you care. Does IvanLaw wai'ing his sister-in-law have any real impact on you?

[saraburioz]

When we return to Thailand & Call at the local resturant I :jap: the waitress

& it is always returned.

Maybe because she is my sisterinlaw?

I hope she issn't younger than you.

Why? You haven't really ever answered why you care. Does IvanLaw wai'ing his sister-in-law have any real impact on you?

Let's just say I speak fluent Thai and work amongst Thais for many years and know exactly what they think of the typical farang. When I see a guy making a mistake, it adds to the ridicule we(farang) already get.

I don't want poeple to make a fool of themselves - many people just don't realize.

A simple question to Ivan.

[saraburioz]

Only people really concerned about all this waiing are farangs. Thai knows farangs mean well when they wai wrong people and think nothing of it. Most of pseudo-thais as they say here like to make an issue of this but really all waitress cares about is if you leave a tip. I say if you feel like wai then go ahead and if not then don't. Thai people only care if you treat them okay or not. If somebody wai me I do it back. If nobody wai I dont either.

Pseudo Thai are actually the <deleted>, but they don't seem to know it.

And this assumption is all based on having had a Thai wife for and living here for 2 years?

Thai people only care if you treat them okay or not.

You just don't understand Thai people dude.

You had to ask your wife couple of pages ago and now you're an expert I bet you have to take your wife with you every time you have to communicate with anyone.

And, please explain why you can't speak Thai - I bet you're not even going to classes?

[elkangorito]

Let's just say I speak fluent Thai and work amongst Thais for many years and know exactly what they think of the typical farang. When I see a guy making a mistake, it adds to the ridicule we(farang) already get.

I don't want poeple to make a fool of themselves - many people just don't realize.

A simple question to Ivan.

If somebody wais to a Thai waitress, you feel ridiculed. Do you always feel so powerless & insecure?

[saraburioz]

Let's just say I speak fluent Thai and work amongst Thais for many years and know exactly what they think of the typical farang. When I see a guy making a mistake, it adds to the ridicule we(farang) already get.I don't want poeple to make a fool of themselves - many people just don't realize.

A simple question to Ivan.

If somebody wais to a Thai waitress, you feel ridiculed. Do you always feel so powerless & insecure?

No, read what I posted.

[elkangorito]

Like I said, do you always feel so powerless & insecure?

I think it'd be easier for me to say;

Get a life!!

[Kwasaki]

<deleted>, you may think but some of us open doors for ladies, yes even Thai ladies, being polite and dare l say a gentleman for some of us is inbuilt. Respect should be shown to all. If the OP has a problem with that then l feel sad for him/her and his word <deleted> fits his/her out look.

Opens doors for Thai ladies

Polite

Inbuilt

Shows repect

Gentleman

Soi 6

Do you actually have a point to make or is this just a demonstration in the overuse of emoticons?

Use as many emoticons as you like to make your point.

[StreetCowboy]

If you're not supposed to wai them, why are they called wai-tresses?

SC

[Kwasaki]

If you're not supposed to wai them, why are they called wai-tresses?

SC

+1

[StreetCowboy]

If you're not supposed to wai them, why are they called wai-tresses?

SC

+1

I'm embarassed at my own turgid wit, taking so long to post that; in fact, I was thinking of not posting it for that simple reason,

But then I thought - 'If I don't post it, no-one will, and yet the audience will not appreciate what a lucky escape they've had'

SC

[tombkk]

And yes, respect for other people has to do with a social hierarchy, which also exists in your country. Did you read the website about Power Distance Index, and the differences between national cultures, I posted earlier? You seem to think that your country's culture is "right" and the culture of our host country is "wrong". And that satisfies your moral values?

It's really up to you whether you want to understand Thai culture or not. Nobody will force you to. But to judge the host country's culture as immoral is a bit questionable, IMHO.

I absolutely do not think that my own country's culture is better than Thailand, the United Kingdom still has a class system ingrained within society, a state religion and a monarchy which I detest.

However you don't seem to get the point.

The wai is a greeting between people in Thailand similar to a western handshake but different due to the position of the hands and the order which people wai each other.

Younger people waing older or everybody waing monks I have no problem with; however classifying someone as inferior to yourself because of the occupation they hold, the region they were born or how wealthy they are is despicable.

Some website with arbritary statistics isn't going to change how I feel about inequality. The fact of the matter is that all countries should be sporting a 0 on that chart.

Ah, thanks for your post. I wish I got more questions like that.

The website I linked to is not "some website", and after surveyig over 170,000 people, certainly not arbitrary. It is in fact the website of Prof. Hofstede, who is considered one of the top experts in the world on cross-cultural issues.

And no, it doesn't change how you feel about Power Distance. In fact, Prof. Hofstede said that culture is the "collective programming of the mind". At a very young age, cultural values are already programmed into your mind, in this case your feeling that a PDI should be zero. You are the perfect example, proving the theory.

Now, imagine a Thai person, growing up in Thailand. The cultural values are very different (it's a bit difficult to explain in detail on this forum, but you could always attend a course). Thai people feel very different from what you feel about Power Distance, and that is fact. Mind you, cultural research is aggregate, i.e. it covers the general feeling, and on a disaggregate (individual) level, you may find people who this does not apply to.

I do think there is a vocabulary question. I did not bring the word "inferior" into this thread, there is probably a better word. It's the classification under which you accept younger people to wai to older people, or people of lower social rank to people of higher social rank. The wording doesn't matter, but you do understand the underlying meaning, as you have proven by accepting that younger people why to olders etc.

[tombkk]

If you're not supposed to wai them, why are they called wai-tresses?

SC

Because of the difference between British/American/Australian pronunciation.

Now, this was easy. Got any other questions?

[mojaco]

When we return to Thailand & Call at the local resturant I :jap: the waitress

& it is always returned.

Maybe because she is my sisterinlaw?

I hope she issn't younger than you.

Why? You haven't really ever answered why you care. Does IvanLaw wai'ing his sister-in-law have any real impact on you?

Let's just say I speak fluent Thai and work amongst Thais for many years and know exactly what they think of the typical farang. When I see a guy making a mistake, it adds to the ridicule we(farang) already get.

I don't want poeple to make a fool of themselves - many people just don't realize.

A simple question to Ivan.

Let's just say I ALSO not only speak fluent Thai but also read and write Thai fluently and live and work ONLY amongst Thais 365 days a year (no "farang" around at all) for more than 16 years and will NEVER know EXACTLY what they think. Your profession of such deep understanding just shows how little you really do understand people and especially the Thai people. And just exactly what is a "typical" farang?

I wai generously as a sign of respect for equality of all human beings. The "sufferage", equality for blacks, women's rights, and etc. were the "culture" of inequality of the day. If the "wai" promotes a culture of continuing class distinction then perhaps it needs to change to become equally given just as a handshake is generally.

And all of this is just "much ado about nothing". Because of modern communications the Thai culture is being rapidly changed and what we "farang" do or don't do with a "wai" is becoming rapidly inconsequential to the "typical Thai".

[zaza]

I wai everybody I meet , the statues I pass by, the people in the pictures, and even wai the reflections in the mirror:lol:

[luckizuchinni]

When we return to Thailand & Call at the local resturant I :jap: the waitress

& it is always returned.

Maybe because she is my sisterinlaw?

I hope she issn't younger than you.

Why? You haven't really ever answered why you care. Does IvanLaw wai'ing his sister-in-law have any real impact on you?

Let's just say I speak fluent Thai and work amongst Thais for many years and know exactly what they think of the typical farang. When I see a guy making a mistake, it adds to the ridicule we(farang) already get.

I don't want poeple to make a fool of themselves - many people just don't realize.

A simple question to Ivan.

"Let's just say" I think you are wrong. I am not a neophyte here, and most Thais I know may smile at what they consider such a type of mistake, but "ridicule" is way too strong a noun, as the contention that wai'ing outside of what some Thais might feel is normal customs makes a person a "fool," "plonker," "tosser," or whatever name you want th throw out there.

Regardless, what one person does really has little to do with you, in my heartfelt opinion. We might as well contend that an expat who goes on an internet forum to tell people how to act here in Thailand or risk being a plonker/<deleted>/tosser/fool opens up all expats to ridicule, but then again, I don't believe that either.

(And not to nitpick, but "I hope she issn't younger than you. " is not "a simple question.")

[luckizuchinni]

+1

[elkangorito]

And all of this is just "much ado about nothing". Because of modern communications the Thai culture is being rapidly changed and what we "farang" do or don't do with a "wai" is becoming rapidly inconsequential to the "typical Thai".

I agree 1000%.

Sometimes I wai...sometimes I don't...& nobody gives a toss!

I treat a wai in the same way I treat a handshake...if I am meeting someone (a Thai) personally for the first time, I wai.

I do not wai people, with whom I work everyday. A simple verbal gesture is a very acceptable thing.

Edited October 13, 2010 by elkangorito

[luckizuchinni]

I wai everybody I meet , the statues I pass by, the people in the pictures, and even wai the reflections in the mirror:lol:

+!

(you had me at "mirror")

Edited October 13, 2010 by luckizuchinni

[zaza]

I wai everybody I meet , the statues I pass by, the people in the pictures, and even wai the reflections in the mirror:lol:

+!

(you had me at "mirror")

:jap: hahaha

[saraburioz]

Let's just say I ALSO not only speak fluent Thai but also read and write Thai fluently and live and work ONLY amongst Thais 365 days a year (no "farang" around at all) for more than 16 years and will NEVER know EXACTLY what they think. Your profession of such deep understanding just shows how little you really do understand people and especially the Thai people. And just exactly what is a "typical" farang?

I wai generously as a sign of respect for equality of all human beings. The "sufferage", equality for blacks, women's rights, and etc. were the "culture" of inequality of the day. If the "wai" promotes a culture of continuing class distinction then perhaps it needs to change to become equally given just as a handshake is generally.

And all of this is just "much ado about nothing". Because of modern communications the Thai culture is being rapidly changed and what we "farang" do or don't do with a "wai" is becoming rapidly inconsequential to the "typical Thai".

Strange post - I don't want to get into who knows more about Thai culture - pretty arrogant and childish.

Are you really saying that you walk into a restaurant and wai the waitress first???? If you do then you CLEARLY haven't a clue.