Abduction Of My Daughter, By My Thai Wife

[Mario2008]

A divorce by mutual agreement is free, if you need a lawyer the cost will depend greatly on his fee.

[mickylonster]

does anyone have an idea how much a divorce costs in thailand?

i have a lawyer now but i am finding it hard to understand him, as his english is not very good , and paper work is all in thai.

I paid baht 40,000 in 2008 . hope this helps .

[scott1999]

does anyone have an idea how much a divorce costs in thailand?

i have a lawyer now but i am finding it hard to understand him, as his english is not very good , and paper work is all in thai.

I paid baht 40,000 in 2008 . hope this helps .

yes thankyou it helps alot

[MikeyIdea]

As far as I can see under Thai law, no crime.

No such thing as parental abduction in this country, the half sister accusation is just nasty on your part.

In the UK

If your wife accuses you of violence, mental illness or child abuse, she will get sole custody of the child, no evidence required. If she goes to a solicitor they will advise her to do this and you will no longer be able to work as a teacher.

(happened to me)

Sorry for your loss of a child.

Best advice I can give, live with what happened, move on.

thanks sarahsbloke

i agree with you about parental abduction , but it was the half sister who is on cctv abducting my daughter, the police agree and judge signed the warrant. the wife has been to my school to say i like to have sex with children and been to ministry of labour re work permit both the school and ministry did not care for her comments, and she was told to see a lawyer, which of course she has already,

but i would be interested in your case ie any information that could help me. sorry for your loss too

"If your wife accuses you of violence, mental illness or child abuse, she will get sole custody of the child, no evidence required"

In Thailand, that is incorrect. In a Thai family court, a father accused of violence or child abuse but without evidence to back it up certainly need to provide evidence that he is and has been a good father for the child or he risk losing most of the possession of the child but he will not lose custody, not without formal evidence. If there is formal evidence of child abuse or other that could endanger the child, then custody will and should be removed - nothing wrong with that.

Immigration is a totally different matter - it is not bound by courts and open to personal interpretation by the officers without having to motivate anything.

[scott1999]

As far as I can see under Thai law, no crime.

No such thing as parental abduction in this country, the half sister accusation is just nasty on your part.

In the UK

If your wife accuses you of violence, mental illness or child abuse, she will get sole custody of the child, no evidence required. If she goes to a solicitor they will advise her to do this and you will no longer be able to work as a teacher.

(happened to me)

Sorry for your loss of a child.

Best advice I can give, live with what happened, move on.

thanks sarahsbloke

i agree with you about parental abduction , but it was the half sister who is on cctv abducting my daughter, the police agree and judge signed the warrant. the wife has been to my school to say i like to have sex with children and been to ministry of labour re work permit both the school and ministry did not care for her comments, and she was told to see a lawyer, which of course she has already,

but i would be interested in your case ie any information that could help me. sorry for your loss too

"If your wife accuses you of violence, mental illness or child abuse, she will get sole custody of the child, no evidence required"

In Thailand, that is incorrect. In a Thai family court, a father accused of violence or child abuse but without evidence to back it up certainly need to provide evidence that he is and has been a good father for the child or he risk losing most of the possession of the child but he will not lose custody, not without formal evidence. If there is formal evidence of child abuse or other that could endanger the child, then custody will and should be removed - nothing wrong with that.

Immigration is a totally different matter - it is not bound by courts and open to personal interpretation by the officers without having to motivate anything.

thanks for reply

you seem to know a lot about this subject , thanks again

[MikeyIdea]

I would also like to comment on the below

**************

Sorry for your loss of a child.

Best advice I can give, live with what happened, move on.

The words "loss of a child" are totally out of place and incorrectly chosen. sarahsbloke: I appreciate your contribution to the sub forum but you should choose your words wiser. You are referring to what was pretty common in Europe 20-30 years ago, not what is the practice in Thailand.

There are many areas that affect judges decision - Accusations not backed up by any evidence is not one of the more important ones. Decisions are taken in the best interest of the child and parental rights as such are not that high on the judges priority list in Thailand. Therefore, to paint a picture of a father who always cares for his childs best is the most important thing to do. The father spending 90% of the time throwing dirt on the mother is not going to convince the judges that he is the more suitable parent. There are many other aspects - Thai courts are very formal and a westerner who is'nt well prepared by his lawyer can do many mistakes to lower his image in the judges eyes. Also unshaved and not properly dressed matters to some extent, speaking when not spoken to, speaking too loudly or not able to / interested in controlling oneself and we could be talking about considerable influence on the judges decision. Respect is the key word, always think and act in terms of what is the best for the child is the key phrase

I find nothing in the OPs posts that would warrant removal of parental rights, unless the accusations of violence is true of course, and a good defence that include a witness on the fathers side stating that he has seen the father taking good loving care of his child to counter the mothers accusations will be enough to ensure that custody is not removed. How much possession of the child? 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2 or something else? We will never know but the OP will in less than a years time

A couple of more things:

If the mother also provides witness of violent behaviour, then parental rights could really be in danger.

The child is 9 years old so she has the right to have her voice heard in a Thai court if she wants to (starts at 7 in Thailand, not 12 like in most western countries)

The father can request the court to get the childs opinion - interview by child phsychatrist on behalf of the court - Does the child herself say that she was hit by the father? Is the child afraid of the father or mother etc?

9 years olds are so easily brainwashed and mislead

Always think in the best interest of the child and good luck Scott

Edited October 29, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

One more thing - If you find out that the wife is abroad, then I would consider including abandonment. You displaying yourself as a loving and caring father and the mother abandoning the child to go to work abroad clearly leaves the mother with difficult questions to answer.

You would also effectively force the mother to go back to Thailand again because being abroad entitles the mother to an additional 180 days to respond but after that, it's "no show" and that's difficult for the loving mother to explain

[scott1999]

I would also like to comment on the below

**************

Sorry for your loss of a child.

Best advice I can give, live with what happened, move on.

The words "loss of a child" are totally out of place and incorrectly chosen. sarahsbloke: I appreciate your contribution to the sub forum but you should choose your words wiser. You are referring to what was pretty common in Europe 20-30 years ago, not what is the practice in Thailand.

There are many areas that affect judges decision - Accusations not backed up by any evidence is not one of the more important ones. Decisions are taken in the best interest of the child and parental rights as such are not that high on the judges priority list in Thailand. Therefore, to paint a picture of a father who always cares for his childs best is the most important thing to do. The father spending 90% of the time throwing dirt on the mother is not going to convince the judges that he is the more suitable parent. There are many other aspects - Thai courts are very formal and a westerner who is'nt well prepared by his lawyer can do many mistakes to lower his image in the judges eyes. Also unshaved and not properly dressed matters to some extent, speaking when not spoken to, speaking too loudly or not able to / interested in controlling oneself and we could be talking about considerable influence on the judges decision. Respect is the key word, always think and act in terms of what is the best for the child is the key phrase

I find nothing in the OPs posts that would warrant removal of parental rights, unless the accusations of violence is true of course, and a good defence that include a witness on the fathers side stating that he has seen the father taking good loving care of his child to counter the mothers accusations will be enough to ensure that custody is not removed. How much possession of the child? 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2 or something else? We will never know but the OP will in less than a years time

A couple of more things:

If the mother also provides witness of violent behaviour, then parental rights could really be in danger.

The child is 9 years old so she has the right to have her voice heard in a Thai court if she wants to (starts at 7 in Thailand, not 12 like in most western countries)

The father can request the court to get the childs opinion - interview by child phsychatrist on behalf of the court - Does the child herself say that she was hit by the father? Is the child afraid of the father or mother etc?

9 years olds are so easily brainwashed and mislead

Always think in the best interest of the child and good luck Scott

thank you for you detailed and informed advice, here are some of the letters i have sent to different agencies, i hope you can read them and understand my story better, as for me, there is no violent behaviour as i have never hit my daughter, but i have been angry to her and i must tell the truth , yes it has frightend her, i am not a perfect man but i have always done my best for my daughter, i do not drink , but i do smoke, and i work very hard in my job, been at the same school now for 2 years, and have lots of private work, im thinking that you maybe a lawyer if so may i talk in more detail with you?

anyway thanks again MikeyIdea

Copy of Phimpha history re child care.doc

Copy of Copy of letter border agency.doc

[mkawish]

thank you for you detailed and informed advice, here are some of the letters i have sent to different agencies, i hope you can read them and understand my story better, as for me, there is no violent behaviour as i have never hit my daughter, but i have been angry to her and i must tell the truth , yes it has frightend her, i am not a perfect man but i have always done my best for my daughter, i do not drink , but i do smoke, and i work very hard in my job, been at the same school now for 2 years, and have lots of private work, im thinking that you maybe a lawyer if so may i talk in more detail with you?

anyway thanks again MikeyIdea

So what are you trying to tell us?

That your ex is rotten to the core?

That she is unfit?

That you have to tell your very young daughter 'the truth'--according to you, to shake Dnee up, when you are displeased?

Whatever you wish to do, pls do leave your daughter Dnee out of it and out of your own mess, please!

If you truly love your daughter as you claim so much and so often, you ought to protect her at all cost from all harms and dangers, including yourself!

You can email me with you wish.

[scott1999]

thank you for you detailed and informed advice, here are some of the letters i have sent to different agencies, i hope you can read them and understand my story better, as for me, there is no violent behaviour as i have never hit my daughter, but i have been angry to her and i must tell the truth , yes it has frightend her, i am not a perfect man but i have always done my best for my daughter, i do not drink , but i do smoke, and i work very hard in my job, been at the same school now for 2 years, and have lots of private work, im thinking that you maybe a lawyer if so may i talk in more detail with you?

anyway thanks again MikeyIdea

So what are you trying to tell us?

That your ex is rotten to the core?

That she is unfit?

That you have to tell your very young daughter 'the truth'--according to you, to shake p, when you are displeased?

Whatever you wish to do, pls do leave your daughter out of it and out of your own mess, please!

If you truly love your daughter as you claim so much and so often, you ought to protect her at all cost from all harms and dangers, including yourself!

You can email me with you wish.

i have no wish to get into a mudslinging match with anyone , i don’t have the time sorry,

i posted this thread, for advice from members who may have gone though what i am dealing with now, and i have been given some great help with this matter, as for your comments ( that your wife is rotten to the core?) and (that she is unfit) (the truth according to you, to shake my daughter up)

and (pls do leave your daughter out of it and out of your own mess please) i have no idea what you are trying to say, please re read your post as it is unclear what you are trying to say,

i try to deal in facts everything i have posted i can back up with proof, i do not know why people do what they do i have no power over anyone but myself.

i had done my best to set my wife up for the rest of her life, buying condos in Thailand to the value of 40,000 bt a month for ever, and i had paid for 3 the children from my wife’s first marriage to go through school and uni, i am not rich and have worked hard in my life, and i am still working hard, in the upcoming divorce my lawyer is saying if the split is 50/50 i will get some condos back, maybe this is why my wife is acting the way she is , who knows .

as for being a father i can only go on my wife’s record of child care, and so will the judge, the judge is now the king maker in my case

but i do know, a lot more now about Thai law,

1 as the father i have dual care of my daughter , it was my wife that went to england to live, so leaving me as the main career, so when my daughter was abducted from me, that is against Thai law.

2 not letting my daughter go to school, against Thai law,

3 not letting me see my daughter is against Thai law,

4 trying to get my daughter out of Thailand without my permission, not sure if against the law or is classed another way but wrong.

as for my record , of child care , i can prove that my daughter was happy, and doing very well at school , she went from 56th in her year to 5th , but as she was not able to take her midterm exams , re abdution i do not know if she could have gone even higher,

my daughter always had a mobile with her so the mother or the half sisters could ring anytime, worked out to about one phone call a week,

the half brother lived alone in one of her condos on the same complex for the time my wife was in England on her orders aged 14.

there is no evidence of violence on my part , just what i have said before about to angry ,

all this is fact and i can prove it, with statements from teachers from school and people that live on the complex,

Hope i get to see my daughter soon and thanks to all the members who have given me great advice , you know who you all are,

i will soon be an expert on divorce in Thailand ha ha and will post all of my story on thaivisa to help anyone who my need it

[sarahsbloke]

Good luck Scott!

and

Ignore the pillocks that always want the man to be the bad guy, they appear on every thread like this.

[scott1999]

Good luck Scott!

and

Ignore the pillocks that always want the man to be the bad guy, they appear on every thread like this.

cheers sarahsbloke for your comment, like i said im not perfect by a lone lone way, and the ex will have her side to this story, but i will post when i need to as you people are helping me very much, i am a shy person wish all this never happened , but it has now and i must carry on to do my best for me and my daughter,

your kindness is welcome , cheers mate,

[Maestro]

...the wife has been to my school to say i like to have sex with children...

If the people to whom your wife talked like that are willing to testify you should file a police report accusing your wife of defamation and libel. This way, the court will issue an arrest warrant also for your wife.

[scott1999]

...the wife has been to my school to say i like to have sex with children...

If the people to whom your wife talked like that are willing to testify you should file a police report accusing your wife of defamation and libel. This way, the court will issue an arrest warrant also for your wife.

cheers maestro i did not think of this as i was waiting for my day in court to give my side of the story,

i have been told that in thailand defamation and libel are a big deal , i will speak to my boss to see if she will do this for me,

thanks again

[scott1999]

here for your expert eyes is an email i have sent to my lawyer, please if there is any thing more i could ask my lawyer please let me know.

letter to lawyer

1 please update me re divorce, has the divorce papers been sent up country to wifes id address?

2 please contact juvenile court, and give me an approx time ie 1 month 2 month or 3 months for the case of my daughter to come to juvenile court,

3 is there any way you can check with the ministry of education to see if my daughter has been moved to a new school

4 please can you check with thai immigration bureau , to check wife is still in this country, and the last date she came in or out of thailand,

5 please can you try to stop wife raising any more money on the condos till divorce.

[MikeyIdea]

I’m not a lawyer, but my family situation has forced me to have quite a lot of contact with lawyers and we have discussed a lot. As one of them taught me: If you want to learn family law, then you must understand the purpose of the law. It is there to protect the child. Think of that and you will understand better what you need to do and what your chances are

I have read both letters;

Stop ranting about how bad the mother is. I mean nothing bad with writing this, I just want to steer your concentration to what is more important. Like the letter to the border agency. It should have started with that the British citizen xxx has been abducted first

I do recommend that you concentrate on how good a father YOU have been for YOUR child. In court you can quickly let them know what you have done for the mothers other children from other relationships, that’s fine but leave it at that. What the mother has done or not done to the other children (left them to live with other relatives while she goes to work somewhere else etc) is quite normal in Thailand and nothing that will raise any eyebrows. Not this case, if anyone ever raises one then it will be another case

I would immediately stop all support to all relatives, your responsibility only lies to your child (from the second you formally file for divorce), time to start to make them feel what that means. Any relative living in anything that you own should be forced to leave. Change locks.

Do you still pay money? To who? You can’t stop support of your own daughter but as she’s in effect abducted, why not open up a bank account in your name but ONLY use it to put in 4,000 bath per month for the child. This way you can prove the intention to pay for your child to the courts but at the same time cut off funding to the abductor(s). I suppose there goes part of the incentive to withhold the child. Oh so difficult for a father who loves his child of course but the child will not take any permanent damage, and it should speed up reunion.

A few things;

In a divorce case, one party file for divorce and the court summons the other party to a hearing. Has court summoned the mother to a divorce hearing yet? It is not the lawyer but the court that summons the mother

Please confirm if the kidnapping charges have been pushed to the district attorney or not. There are 2 steps: 1) The standard police report (jaeng kwam) – means no action will be taken and step 2) Pushing it to the district attorney (saab), means court case and consequent warrant for arrest if evidence is good enough. IF step 2 is done, then I would request the lawyer to petition juvenile court this way; Urgent/emergency request (kaa doan, laeng doan) for sole custody on the basis that a relative of the mother has abducted the child, the child is denied education and the mother has abandoned the child (if it is true). And attach the formal paper work about the kidnapping charges and arrest warrant. Ask the lawyer for advice. I look for a possibility to separate the custody case from the divorce case, a divorce case can go on for more than a year, the kidnapping could be such an opening

“please if there is any thing more i could ask my lawyer please let me know”

The above parapraph…

Waiting time for custody court case in Bangkok is approx 2 to max 3 month in Bangkok (for summoning to the first hearing). I don’t know if it is longer for divorce

“3 is there any way you can check with the ministry of education to see if my daughter has been moved to a new school “ Don’t know – The lawyer will need a letter of attorney from the legal father if there is

“4 please can you check with thai immigration bureau , to check wife is still in this country, and the last date she came in or out of thailand,”

Don’t think he can.

“5 please can you try to stop wife raising any more money on the condos till divorce.”

Only the court can order that, good initiative. If a 50/50 split finally is ordered by the courts, then it applies to income from the condos too

There are many things that are not as clear as they need to be. Who has taken care of the child the last 3 years? Living with who? Both mother and father? If you can prove that the child has been living with YOU for the last 3 years and you have evidence of all the bills for education, then you should be in good shape to get most of the possession. The school can get you copies of the receipts, you will definitely need that evidence in court so start preparing now. Bring birth certificate/evidence of shared custody to school and tell them that you have taken the issue about custody to court and request copies

Do you want to take care of your child alone without the help of the mother? Big responsibility. Are you ready for it and up to it?

Good Luck

[scott1999]

I’m not a lawyer, but my family situation has forced me to have quite a lot of contact with lawyers and we have discussed a lot. As one of them taught me: If you want to learn family law, then you must understand the purpose of the law. It is there to protect the child. Think of that and you will understand better what you need to do and what your chances are

I have read both letters;

Stop ranting about how bad the mother is. I mean nothing bad with writing this, I just want to steer your concentration to what is more important. Like the letter to the border agency. It should have started with that the British citizen xxx has been abducted first

I do recommend that you concentrate on how good a father YOU have been for YOUR child. In court you can quickly let them know what you have done for the mothers other children from other relationships, that’s fine but leave it at that. What the mother has done or not done to the other children (left them to live with other relatives while she goes to work somewhere else etc) is quite normal in Thailand and nothing that will raise any eyebrows. Not this case, if anyone ever raises one then it will be another case

I would immediately stop all support to all relatives, your responsibility only lies to your child (from the second you formally file for divorce), time to start to make them feel what that means. Any relative living in anything that you own should be forced to leave. Change locks.

Do you still pay money? To who? You can’t stop support of your own daughter but as she’s in effect abducted, why not open up a bank account in your name but ONLY use it to put in 4,000 bath per month for the child. This way you can prove the intention to pay for your child to the courts but at the same time cut off funding to the abductor(s). I suppose there goes part of the incentive to withhold the child. Oh so difficult for a father who loves his child of course but the child will not take any permanent damage, and it should speed up reunion.

A few things;

In a divorce case, one party file for divorce and the court summons the other party to a hearing. Has court summoned the mother to a divorce hearing yet? It is not the lawyer but the court that summons the mother

Please confirm if the kidnapping charges have been pushed to the district attorney or not. There are 2 steps: 1) The standard police report (jaeng kwam) – means no action will be taken and step 2) Pushing it to the district attorney (saab), means court case and consequent warrant for arrest if evidence is good enough. IF step 2 is done, then I would request the lawyer to petition juvenile court this way; Urgent/emergency request (kaa doan, laeng doan) for sole custody on the basis that a relative of the mother has abducted the child, the child is denied education and the mother has abandoned the child (if it is true). And attach the formal paper work about the kidnapping charges and arrest warrant. Ask the lawyer for advice. I look for a possibility to separate the custody case from the divorce case, a divorce case can go on for more than a year, the kidnapping could be such an opening

“please if there is any thing more i could ask my lawyer please let me know”

The above parapraph…

Waiting time for custody court case in Bangkok is approx 2 to max 3 month in Bangkok (for summoning to the first hearing). I don’t know if it is longer for divorce

“3 is there any way you can check with the ministry of education to see if my daughter has been moved to a new school “ Don’t know – The lawyer will need a letter of attorney from the legal father if there is

“4 please can you check with thai immigration bureau , to check wife is still in this country, and the last date she came in or out of thailand,”

Don’t think he can.

“5 please can you try to stop wife raising any more money on the condos till divorce.”

Only the court can order that, good initiative. If a 50/50 split finally is ordered by the courts, then it applies to income from the condos too

There are many things that are not as clear as they need to be. Who has taken care of the child the last 3 years? Living with who? Both mother and father? If you can prove that the child has been living with YOU for the last 3 years and you have evidence of all the bills for education, then you should be in good shape to get most of the possession. The school can get you copies of the receipts, you will definitely need that evidence in court so start preparing now. Bring birth certificate/evidence of shared custody to school and tell them that you have taken the issue about custody to court and request copies

Do you want to take care of your child alone without the help of the mother? Big responsibility. Are you ready for it and up to it?

Good Luck

thank you so much for you advice and time with this reply i will take on board what you have said about mudslinging , if i have gone over the top re wife i can only put it down to my shock and anger at what has happened to me, and you are very right , its the best interest of my daughter that matters not me,

i have taken sole care of my daughter for almost 2 years now, and can prove that as she has been at my school where i teach for 3 terms now, till the abduction, and by the wifes passport stamps in and out of england, no family member on wife side helped at all, i am just about to walk down stairs at my school to get receipts for the said 3 terms,

the lawyers has been to the court and the summons is or has been sent up country to wife family address on her id.

i have to go now to get receipts and then teach again , so i will leave now by saying i must try to repay you some how with this valuable info

and your time,

i will tonight try to answer all the questions you have put up , by ringing the police , and lawyer tonight before i reply again ,

thank you again, i can not think of the correct words to show you how much your post has helped me,

[MikeyIdea]

Another thing: You are the legal father, you can and should in court demand that if the mother is granted any time, then the mother also takes care of the child and the child sleeps with the mother that time, or the mother has to hand over the child to the father if she can't due to work or whatever. The mother cannot leave the child with the grand mother or anyone else (except occasionally) while she works somewhere else.

It is equally difficult for a Thai mother to be allowed to bring her child to another country and effectively take the child away from the (farang) father living in Thailand as it is for a farang father to do that with a Thai mother.

[scott1999]

(saab), is done as of the 23th september on 12th of septempter my daughter was abducted, i had no contact with any one to the where abouts of my daughter, but the police had tried to contact the other half sister and the brother to ask the where abouts of the half sister and my daughter, they said they did not know on the 24th the mother who had told my daughter and me that she had gone back to england on the 29th august, i know now she never left thailand, was seen in the british embassy trying to get my daughter a new passport, so with my daughter in the hands of the mother then , the police and i slowed down , but i still had the warrant and was getting things ready for a divorce, i and the police had phone contact with the mother and i spoke to my daughter 4 times from the 29th of sepember till 26th of october , as the mother had promised she would bring my daughter back to school starting on the 26th october, this never happened and now the phone number the mother was using is turned off, so i have know idea where my daughter is, who is taking care of her , is she going to school, the where abouts of the mother,

Do you still pay money? To who? no i do not pay any money to them but i will do as you say re 4000bt a month , but she has taking out a loan on one of the condos about 3 weeks ago, with out me knowing.

as for my lawyer he was still up country yesterday but is back today and i have passed on the steps to be taking if not done already by email.

thanks again for you help in this matter,

if i have missed anything out that you are not sure about please just ask ,

[IMA_FARANG]

As I said in another post I AM NOT A LAWYER, so anything I say may be wrong. But here's some points to consider.

I believe the nother still has rights to custody of the child UNTIL you can prove that her custody of that child is determental to the child. So I don't think you will get anywhere with the "kidnapping" charge unless you cam prove that the child did not go voluntarily, or is being harmed somehow by living with the mother.

I have read somewhere that a parent may lose custody rights of a child (in Thailand) if the child is not allowed to attend school (where that schooling is available). If the mother is keeping her out of school...you should mention this to a Thai lawyer. It may be important, but again...I'm not a lawyer.

As much as I agree with the idea that staying with you instead of the mother might be a benefit to the child...for economic reasons if no other...I doubt that any Thai court would ever agree with that. So, in my opinion, that's a very weak arguement for custody of the child. (Sorry, to have to say that).

[Mario2008]

There is no kidnapping as the mother has equal rights to the child. As the parent determine the place a child stays, it doesn't matter if the child goes voluntarily or not with a parent.

[scott1999]

As I said in another post I AM NOT A LAWYER, so anything I say may be wrong. But here's some points to consider.

I believe the nother still has rights to custody of the child UNTIL you can prove that her custody of that child is determental to the child. So I don't think you will get anywhere with the "kidnapping" charge unless you cam prove that the child did not go voluntarily, or is being harmed somehow by living with the mother.

I have read somewhere that a parent may lose custody rights of a child (in Thailand) if the child is not allowed to attend school (where that schooling is available). If the mother is keeping her out of school...you should mention this to a Thai lawyer. It may be important, but again...I'm not a lawyer.

As much as I agree with the idea that staying with you instead of the mother might be a benefit to the child...for economic reasons if no other...I doubt that any Thai court would ever agree with that. So, in my opinion, that's a very weak arguement for custody of the child. (Sorry, to have to say that).

hi 'IMA_FARANG' thanks for your reply, i feel i must just get ready for the court case now, from what knowledge i have gained ,

as the half sister took my daughter , it is kidnapping, and the warrant in live for the half sister , if the mother took my daughter, i would agree with you,

as the father i must have a say in where my daughter lives , what school she goes to, her standard of care,

at this moment in time, i do not know where my daughter is, who is taking care of her, if she is going to school,

all this is against thai law as i have been told by my lawyer and police, thats why since the phone was turned off last week by my wife, the police have moved up a gear and so i hope will the juvenile court,

but thanks for the input.

m

hi

[scott1999]

There is no kidnapping as the mother has equal rights to the child. As the parent determine the place a child stays, it doesn't matter if the child goes voluntarily or not with a parent.

answered the kidnapping question in my last post,

but what is correct is the child stays with the mother or the father, not the mother giving the child to who ever while she goes of to live in england, which may have happened, i dont know , because as i have said i dont know where my daughter is or whos taking care of her or if she is going to school, time will tell. and will post the answers on thaivisa

[Mario2008]

Yes, finding your daughter is the first priority. If she is with anybody else but the mother, you can demand her back from that person. You can only not demand her back from the mother herself, as she has equal rights as you.

If the child doesn't go to school, a judge will take serious issue of that and it will increae you chance of getting sole custody. But for that the norm is that the mother is incapable or even a danger to the child.

If you fear the child is in the Uk, you cna contact the British autorities, as under British law it might be considered parental kidnapping. But I don't know UK law.

[scott1999]

Yes, finding your daughter is the first priority. If she is with anybody else but the mother, you can demand her back from that person. You can only not demand her back from the mother herself, as she has equal rights as you.

If the child doesn't go to school, a judge will take serious issue of that and it will increae you chance of getting sole custody. But for that the norm is that the mother is incapable or even a danger to the child.

If you fear the child is in the Uk, you cna contact the British autorities, as under British law it might be considered parental kidnapping. But I don't know UK law.

thanks for reply,

agree with everthing you say,

and the british embassy was contacted on the 13th of september, one day after the abduction, i have my daughters passport, and if the wife has got her to england the term is trafficking,

thanks again

[MikeyIdea]

A few things;

There is no kidnapping done by the mother and there can never be as long as she has custody. The child was according to the OP taken, with CCTV evidence to back it up, by the mothers half-sister. What the half-sister did can be considered kidnapping. Mario2008 writes well as always, read his posts twice

School

Juvenile will surely react to if one parent denies a child education. I doubt custody would be removed only because of that, hardly, but the court will still act to ensure that the young child get education in the future. Removing custody isn’t their first choice, they can make the other parent primary custodian, why not do that instead?

I don’t think that we will see sole custody coming out of this, I think that we will just see the court act in the best interest of the child and give the parent who has proven to care the most for the childs future and is ready to continue to do it the most of the possession. We could very well see 5/2 – Monday to Friday – given to the father as he can prove that he has provided a stable home and good education for the child, need to show that he is prepared and ready to do the same in the future.

That the child was taken out of school is a very important point to push. The father should in my opinion request an emergency case as the child is denied education (and more). I don’t know exactly how to formulate it, I’m not a lawyer too, but that a child is abducted (if a warrant really exists, I still doubt it) and denied education is serious enough for the court to act. I would like to get the handling of the child separated from the divorce case if possible. At the end of the day, it probably doesn’t matter that much if the future of the child is decided as part of the divorce or separately but for the OP to get it separated in the first place would in itself be a small victory proving that he really cares for his child. And a decision would come faster

I still like abandonment by the mother charges because the OP says that he has evidence of some 2 years where the mother actually left the child to go abroad. IF a warrant for arrest for kidnapping against the step sister really exists, then the mother is also Either in contact with a kidnapper or has still abandoned the child. Not that important in Juvenile court though

The courts will take a decision taking into consideration the future of the child more than what happened in the past so it is important for the father to show that he plans for the future. School will be the same of course, arrangements for who will take care of the child when the father is working is completed… All is planned and ready = good impression. Licensed teachers are good witnesses, preferably Thai, you would increase your chances nicely if you can get one or two of your Thai licensed teachers friends to witness that you have taken good care of your child (while the mother left the country..)

We have 2 open issues; Mother playing tricks and providing witness of abusive behaviour and the child is 9 and old enough to affect the judges’ decision. Maybe the child will help to decide the outcome

OP, you now know quite a lot how to prepare yourself, good luck

[Mario2008]

Note that if the half-sister acted with consent of the mother, it is not kidnapping. She was than authorized to take the child and only the father could have denied her taking the child.

[sarahsbloke]

Just a note on UK law.

If the child is in the UK with the mother, you have lost.

The words she will use are "I have removed my daughter to a place of safety, away from the abusive father"

UK law will give sole custody to the mother (if she alleges violence or abuse), no evidence required.

She can stall any attempts on your part for access or visitation rights for about 5 years ... just on repeated allegations to different authorities.

You will be required to pay for all your legal fees, solicitor and court, no cost to her, all done on legal aid.

In the UK men are considered monsters (by courts, schools, police, social services) likely to abuse or harm their children.

Edited November 4, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[scott1999]

A few things;

There is no kidnapping done by the mother and there can never be as long as she has custody. The child was according to the OP taken, with CCTV evidence to back it up, by the mothers half-sister. What the half-sister did can be considered kidnapping. Mario2008 writes well as always, read his posts twice

School

Juvenile will surely react to if one parent denies a child education. I doubt custody would be removed only because of that, hardly, but the court will still act to ensure that the young child get education in the future. Removing custody isn’t their first choice, they can make the other parent primary custodian, why not do that instead?

I don’t think that we will see sole custody coming out of this, I think that we will just see the court act in the best interest of the child and give the parent who has proven to care the most for the childs future and is ready to continue to do it the most of the possession. We could very well see 5/2 – Monday to Friday – given to the father as he can prove that he has provided a stable home and good education for the child, need to show that he is prepared and ready to do the same in the future.

That the child was taken out of school is a very important point to push. The father should in my opinion request an emergency case as the child is denied education (and more). I don’t know exactly how to formulate it, I’m not a lawyer too, but that a child is abducted (if a warrant really exists, I still doubt it) and denied education is serious enough for the court to act. I would like to get the handling of the child separated from the divorce case if possible. At the end of the day, it probably doesn’t matter that much if the future of the child is decided as part of the divorce or separately but for the OP to get it separated in the first place would in itself be a small victory proving that he really cares for his child. And a decision would come faster

I still like abandonment by the mother charges because the OP says that he has evidence of some 2 years where the mother actually left the child to go abroad. IF a warrant for arrest for kidnapping against the step sister really exists, then the mother is also Either in contact with a kidnapper or has still abandoned the child. Not that important in Juvenile court though

The courts will take a decision taking into consideration the future of the child more than what happened in the past so it is important for the father to show that he plans for the future. School will be the same of course, arrangements for who will take care of the child when the father is working is completed… All is planned and ready = good impression. Licensed teachers are good witnesses, preferably Thai, you would increase your chances nicely if you can get one or two of your Thai licensed teachers friends to witness that you have taken good care of your child (while the mother left the country..)

We have 2 open issues; Mother playing tricks and providing witness of abusive behaviour and the child is 9 and old enough to affect the judges’ decision. Maybe the child will help to decide the outcome

OP, you now know quite a lot how to prepare yourself, good luck

update and thanks for your comments,

update the embassy has checked with the thai immigration bureau, and they say my daughter is still in thailand, re checking on her thai passport and i have her british passport,

and i will send a copy of the arrest warrant to you ao you can see for yourself, i know there are many trolls in thaivisa, but i am not one,

thanks again for your views and help,

[scott1999]

Just a note on UK law.

If the child is in the UK with the mother, you have lost.

The words she will use are "I have removed my daughter to a place of safety, away from the abusive father"

UK law will give sole custody to the mother (if she alleges violence or abuse), no evidence required.

She can stall any attempts on your part for access or visitation rights for about 5 years ... just on repeated allegations to different authorities.

You will be required to pay for all your legal fees, solicitor and court, no cost to her, all done on legal aid.

In the UK men are considered monsters (by courts, schools, police, social services) likely to abuse or harm their children.

thanks for rely and agree with you