Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[appropriate]

If the exhaust has the lambda bung then it will accommodate the O2 sensor and will automatically adjust air/fuel as and when necessary.

The oxygen sensor is apparently on the engine block before the downpipe.

This means you can attach your pipe without having to worry about the lambda bung, and the ECU will recalculate automatically?

[appropriate]

Honda's NSF250R for the Moto3:

single 250cc thumper, 14k rpm, 50+bhp... nice.

This is the first official, full photo of the Honda NSF250R, released just moments ago. The “Next Racing Standard” (it was being called the Honda NRS250) is Honda’s new Moto3 entry and, as such, uses a 250cc, four-stroke, single-cylinder engine with a bore of 81mm and a 14,000cc rev limit. Power is likely in the low to mid-50bhp range and the total rider/machine weight can’t be less than 148kg/326 lbs. It’s kind of crazy to think the EBR 1190RS only weighs 34lbs more or so.

Like 125GP it looks like bikes like the NRS250 are going to be all about corner speed, not outright power. Competitive horsepower from the 81mm bore, four-valve, engines with their 14,000rpm rev limits is predicted to be in the low 50bhp range. Figuring in the 148kg/326lbs minimum weight (including the rider) that gives Moto3 bikes a power-to-weight ratio slightly behind something like a CBR600RR. Figuring a 77kg/170lbs rider, the 118bhp 600 has a power-to-weight ratio of .45bhp:1kg while the (presumably 54bhp) Moto3 bike’s is .36:1. Not exactly shabby for a tiny four-stroke.

[eezergood]

Yet another bike we wont see in LOS

[BigBikeBKK]

BTW, DBS have the slip-on advertised on their webpage now. Same one as the ninja but no downpipe as of yet. 6,500b.

http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.asp

Personally I'm waiting until lots of products are tried and tested in the real world, with real world feedback before choosing.

Does anybody know that when changing the pipe on the CBR does the ECU automatically recalculate or will changing the pipe change the air/fuel ratio??

If the exhaust has the lambda bung then it will accommodate the O2 sensor and will automatically adjust air/fuel as and when necessary.

That's not quite accurate. Stock ECU is programmed for stock bike and can only make very minor adjustments.

Most modern motorcycles are setup to run lean to meet emissions regulations. This is often not the best setup for performance or ride ability. Therefore, optimizing the air fuel ratio on your motorcycle is essential to achieve optimum performance and ride ability.

Most aftermarket exhaust systems reduce back pressure, which leans out the fuel even more.

If you start making free-flow modifications to the intake or exhaust you will lean out the fueling even further and the stock ECU can not compensate.

You will need to install a fuel injection module such as a Powercommander/Bazzaz/Juice Box if you wish to optimize the fuel air ratios on a modified bike.

Ride On!

Tony

[katabeachbum]

BTW, DBS have the slip-on advertised on their webpage now. Same one as the ninja but no downpipe as of yet. 6,500b.

http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.asp

Personally I'm waiting until lots of products are tried and tested in the real world, with real world feedback before choosing.

Does anybody know that when changing the pipe on the CBR does the ECU automatically recalculate or will changing the pipe change the air/fuel ratio??

If the exhaust has the lambda bung then it will accommodate the O2 sensor and will automatically adjust air/fuel as and when necessary.

That's not quite accurate. Stock ECU is programmed for stock bike and can only make very minor adjustments.

Most modern motorcycles are setup to run lean to meet emissions regulations. This is often not the best setup for performance or ride ability. Therefore, optimizing the air fuel ratio on your motorcycle is essential to achieve optimum performance and ride ability.

Most aftermarket exhaust systems reduce back pressure, which leans out the fuel even more.

If you start making free-flow modifications to the intake or exhaust you will lean out the fueling even further and the stock ECU can not compensate.

You will need to install a fuel injection module such as a Powercommander/Bazzaz/Juice Box if you wish to optimize the fuel air ratios on a modified bike.

Ride On!

Tony

every engine with a cat must run extremely lean (much air/almost no fuel) on occasions to clean the cat to manage emission. If the lambda is not connected, it will do the extreme lean burn much more often. Extreme lean burn does not provide sufficient fuel to cool pistons and valves. a cat designed engine running without Lamda will burn pistons/valves within few k km. Extreme lean burn when Lambda connected, can be reduces by never keep constant rpm or throttle position more than 3 minutes, like an engine break in.

Stock ECU has as Bigbikebkk says limited ability to compensate for better exhaust flow, and thus exhaust provides only slightly better performance, if any. Next step, juice box, or ECU remapping

[ToffeEFCpower]

Hi Allan

3 weeks ago i rented a new CBR250 from Mr Pao (0817624751) opp welcome plaza on 2nd road

good guy and would recommend him

cheers

Hi Guys.. You all living in Pattaya are the Cbr250's for available for RENT.

if so do you have any contact numbers, prices etc.

I have called the one on Soi13/2 but i'm sure there are more.. I remember someone saying they rented for 3,000 per week but can't find it now.

Thanks in advance.

Allan

[skybluestu]

BTW, DBS have the slip-on advertised on their webpage now. Same one as the ninja but no downpipe as of yet. 6,500b.

http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.asp

Personally I'm waiting until lots of products are tried and tested in the real world, with real world feedback before choosing.

Does anybody know that when changing the pipe on the CBR does the ECU automatically recalculate or will changing the pipe change the air/fuel ratio??

If the exhaust has the lambda bung then it will accommodate the O2 sensor and will automatically adjust air/fuel as and when necessary.

That's not quite accurate. Stock ECU is programmed for stock bike and can only make very minor adjustments.

Most modern motorcycles are setup to run lean to meet emissions regulations. This is often not the best setup for performance or ride ability. Therefore, optimizing the air fuel ratio on your motorcycle is essential to achieve optimum performance and ride ability.

Most aftermarket exhaust systems reduce back pressure, which leans out the fuel even more.

If you start making free-flow modifications to the intake or exhaust you will lean out the fueling even further and the stock ECU can not compensate.

You will need to install a fuel injection module such as a Powercommander/Bazzaz/Juice Box if you wish to optimize the fuel air ratios on a modified bike.

Ride On!

Tony

Most major exhaust manufacturers don't agree with you Tony, here's what twobros have to say about it...

'My bike is fuel injected, do I need to make any adjustments or chip changes?

Generally fuel injected bikes automatically compensate for exhaust and engine related modifications very well. Unless you are building a Superbike motor with over 30% horsepower increases, your stock FI system should work just fine with your new exhaust system and you will reap the benefits immediately. We have however found that with the addition of either a Juice Box™ or a Power Commander with the proper map, the ride-ability of the bike will improve greatly over that of the stock bike and there can be additional performance gains to be had. We carry our own signature Juice Box Fuel Controller and Dynojet Power Commanders for most fuel injected bikes and we can also furnish it with a map just for your machine and our pipe.'

[BigBikeBKK]

BTW, DBS have the slip-on advertised on their webpage now. Same one as the ninja but no downpipe as of yet. 6,500b.

http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.asp

Personally I'm waiting until lots of products are tried and tested in the real world, with real world feedback before choosing.

Does anybody know that when changing the pipe on the CBR does the ECU automatically recalculate or will changing the pipe change the air/fuel ratio??

If the exhaust has the lambda bung then it will accommodate the O2 sensor and will automatically adjust air/fuel as and when necessary.

That's not quite accurate. Stock ECU is programmed for stock bike and can only make very minor adjustments.

Most modern motorcycles are setup to run lean to meet emissions regulations. This is often not the best setup for performance or ride ability. Therefore, optimizing the air fuel ratio on your motorcycle is essential to achieve optimum performance and ride ability.

Most aftermarket exhaust systems reduce back pressure, which leans out the fuel even more.

If you start making free-flow modifications to the intake or exhaust you will lean out the fueling even further and the stock ECU can not compensate.

You will need to install a fuel injection module such as a Powercommander/Bazzaz/Juice Box if you wish to optimize the fuel air ratios on a modified bike.

Ride On!

Tony

Most major exhaust manufacturers don't agree with you Tony, here's what twobros have to say about it...

'My bike is fuel injected, do I need to make any adjustments or chip changes?

Generally fuel injected bikes automatically compensate for exhaust and engine related modifications very well. Unless you are building a Superbike motor with over 30% horsepower increases, your stock FI system should work just fine with your new exhaust system and you will reap the benefits immediately. We have however found that with the addition of either a Juice Box™ or a Power Commander with the proper map, the ride-ability of the bike will improve greatly over that of the stock bike and there can be additional performance gains to be had. We carry our own signature Juice Box Fuel Controller and Dynojet Power Commanders for most fuel injected bikes and we can also furnish it with a map just for your machine and our pipe.'

Um... actually mate the quote from TWO BROS confirms what I said about the benefits of adding a fuel injection module:

"the addition of either a Juice Box™ or a Power Commander with the proper map, the ride-ability of the bike will improve greatly over that of the stock bike and there can be additional performance gains to be had."

I never said you MUST install a fuel injection module if you modify your exhaust, simply that a bike with modified exhaust will run much better with a properly tuned or auto-tuned fuel injection module.

Ride On!

Tony

[appropriate]

Brilliant dayride to the mountains of Ratchaburi today. 500+km and one of the best roads I've ever riden on.

http://www.cbr250.org/forums/showthread.php?247-Ratchaburi-Mountains-Dayride.-And-the-best-road-ever.&p=1441#post1441

that road's a must for anyone with a bike here.

[stander]

I worked in Ratchaburi for 4 years in the 90’s early 2000’s and I rode those roads regularly and they are fantastic.

I am heading up to Sangklaburi on Wednesday, but after reading your trip report I might just go there again.

[appropriate]

I worked in Ratchaburi for 4 years in the 90's early 2000's and I rode those roads regularly and they are fantastic.

I am heading up to Sangklaburi on Wednesday, but after reading your trip report I might just go there again.

Good stuff. Lucky you.

Chom Pueng came across as a lovely town to stay in for a night or two while exploring the province. Some of the scenery was fantastic and the other natural attractions - caves etc I didn't get to check out. It seems to have a lot of cool things packed into one province.

Think it would make a lovely weekend away riding kinda place.

[skybluestu]

BTW, DBS have the slip-on advertised on their webpage now. Same one as the ninja but no downpipe as of yet. 6,500b.

http://www.grim-dbs.com/tdbs2.asp

Personally I'm waiting until lots of products are tried and tested in the real world, with real world feedback before choosing.

Does anybody know that when changing the pipe on the CBR does the ECU automatically recalculate or will changing the pipe change the air/fuel ratio??

If the exhaust has the lambda bung then it will accommodate the O2 sensor and will automatically adjust air/fuel as and when necessary.

That's not quite accurate. Stock ECU is programmed for stock bike and can only make very minor adjustments.

Most modern motorcycles are setup to run lean to meet emissions regulations. This is often not the best setup for performance or ride ability. Therefore, optimizing the air fuel ratio on your motorcycle is essential to achieve optimum performance and ride ability.

Most aftermarket exhaust systems reduce back pressure, which leans out the fuel even more.

If you start making free-flow modifications to the intake or exhaust you will lean out the fueling even further and the stock ECU can not compensate.

You will need to install a fuel injection module such as a Powercommander/Bazzaz/Juice Box if you wish to optimize the fuel air ratios on a modified bike.

Ride On!

Tony

Most major exhaust manufacturers don't agree with you Tony, here's what twobros have to say about it...

'My bike is fuel injected, do I need to make any adjustments or chip changes?

Generally fuel injected bikes automatically compensate for exhaust and engine related modifications very well. Unless you are building a Superbike motor with over 30% horsepower increases, your stock FI system should work just fine with your new exhaust system and you will reap the benefits immediately. We have however found that with the addition of either a Juice Box™ or a Power Commander with the proper map, the ride-ability of the bike will improve greatly over that of the stock bike and there can be additional performance gains to be had. We carry our own signature Juice Box Fuel Controller and Dynojet Power Commanders for most fuel injected bikes and we can also furnish it with a map just for your machine and our pipe.'

Um... actually mate the quote from TWO BROS confirms what I said about the benefits of adding a fuel injection module:

"the addition of either a Juice Box™ or a Power Commander with the proper map, the ride-ability of the bike will improve greatly over that of the stock bike and there can be additional performance gains to be had."

I never said you MUST install a fuel injection module if you modify your exhaust, simply that a bike with modified exhaust will run much better with a properly tuned or auto-tuned fuel injection module.

Ride On!

Tony

[appropriate]

So best way to do it when the time comes is to do the airfilter (maybe K&N when it's available), good pipe, and proper juicebox together.

I always find it kind of surprising that companies (k-speed for eg) offering 10-20% increases from their pipes don't spend 600b on a dyno run to prove it as part of their marketing.

[BigBikeBKK]

So best way to do it when the time comes is to do the airfilter (maybe K&N when it's available), good pipe, and proper juicebox together.

I always find it kind of surprising that companies (k-speed for eg) offering 10-20% increases from their pipes don't spend 600b on a dyno run to prove it as part of their marketing.

Perhaps they don't show a dyno test because they are worried about being accused of false advertising?

[stander]

I worked in Ratchaburi for 4 years in the 90's early 2000's and I rode those roads regularly and they are fantastic.

I am heading up to Sangklaburi on Wednesday, but after reading your trip report I might just go there again.

Good stuff. Lucky you.

Chom Pueng came across as a lovely town to stay in for a night or two while exploring the province. Some of the scenery was fantastic and the other natural attractions - caves etc I didn't get to check out. It seems to have a lot of cool things packed into one province.

Think it would make a lovely weekend away riding kinda place.

The area seems relatively unknown to the farang biker, but I can only echo your sentiments, it has to be one of the best rides I have had here.

I have decide to go via Chom Bung to Kanchanaburi on Wednesday, the forecast for Kanchanaburi and Sangklaburi is thunderstorms, so I may just end up staying the two days in Ratchaburi Province.

[thaicbr]

Hi Allan

3 weeks ago i rented a new CBR250 from Mr Pao (0817624751) opp welcome plaza on 2nd road

good guy and would recommend him

cheers

Hi Guys.. You all living in Pattaya are the Cbr250's for available for RENT.

if so do you have any contact numbers, prices etc.

I have called the one on Soi13/2 but i'm sure there are more.. I remember someone saying they rented for 3,000 per week but can't find it now.

Thanks in advance.

Allan

Thanks Mate.. lets hope he has a black or silver one.. i'm not allowed to ride red bikes

[katabeachbum]

So best way to do it when the time comes is to do the airfilter (maybe K&N when it's available), good pipe, and proper juicebox together.

I always find it kind of surprising that companies (k-speed for eg) offering 10-20% increases from their pipes don't spend 600b on a dyno run to prove it as part of their marketing.

world leading custom pipe suppliers usually state 4-6% for exhaust only

[ToffeEFCpower]

He only had a silver one

[appropriate]

world leading custom pipe suppliers usually state 4-6% for exhaust only

This is on a EFI Harley, but interesting data and dyno info on changing each part, and adding a RideMaxx EFI tuning system.

http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/1001_hbkp_efi_control_at_your_fingertips/index.html

Stock: 57.3hp and 71.9 lb-ft of torque.

With just the pipes and air cleaner we got 60.88hp and 79.03 lb-ft of torque. Then with the RideMaxx powered on and in Auto mode we got 62.44hp and 79.40 lb-ft of torque. Then in Econ mode we got 65.82hp and 80.93 lb-ft of torque. And lastly in PWR mode we got 67.06hp and 81.98 lb-ft of torque.

Just don't look at the difference in gas mileage.

[Kernow86]

No they haven't sent it back- that would seriously suck because i work 50K away from my home and have no other means of getting to work. I guess i'd have to splash out and hire a Kwacker Ern6 - then there is a danger i wont want to go back!

They filled in a report and sent it to Honda "on Monday" and said they would call me to let me know the action to fix it. The bike will be due for an oil change on the weekend so i can take it in and ask them whats happening. I think they'll be open as in the past they have been open on public hols.

The bikes performance hasn't been affected at all but the noise is ever present and wouldn't help when i want to sell it!

So I finally got an answer after having to go the dealer and ask in person.

The dealer claims that AP Honda said the noise "doesn't matter"!

What do you all think of that? Surely its not acceptable to have a brand new bike sounding like shit at 5K rpm .

What should be my next move? Contact Honda myslef and complain?

Edited February 21, 2011 by Kernow86

[appropriate]

Talk to a lawyer?

Get a decent video of it with good quality sound, (with it being revved in neutral so no wind noise) and get it on the Thai boards along with Honda's comment. Try to get Honda's official statement in writing.

If you can, go back to the dealer with the lawyer for official statements, and information.

Edited February 21, 2011 by appropriate

[BigBikeBKK]

No they haven't sent it back- that would seriously suck because i work 50K away from my home and have no other means of getting to work. I guess i'd have to splash out and hire a Kwacker Ern6 - then there is a danger i wont want to go back!

They filled in a report and sent it to Honda "on Monday" and said they would call me to let me know the action to fix it. The bike will be due for an oil change on the weekend so i can take it in and ask them whats happening. I think they'll be open as in the past they have been open on public hols.

The bikes performance hasn't been affected at all but the noise is ever present and wouldn't help when i want to sell it!

So I finally got an answer after having to go the dealer and ask in person.

The dealer claims that AP Honda said the noise "doesn't matter"!

What do you all think of that? Surely its not acceptable to have a brand new bike sounding like shit at 5K rpm .

What should be my next move? Contact Honda myslef and complain?

Define "sounding like shit"... Perhaps there is a problem, perhaps there isn't... You mentioned performance isn't affected...

[taichiplanet]

Strange response from the dealer, you'd think HQ in Japan would be interested in how the CBR250 is coping with 'real life'. As far as i know the Thai market is the only one that has released the bike, and that is a good few months ahead of the world release. So i reckon it's release in Thailand was a shake down before release into, how should i put this, more discerning markets.

Wouldn't hurt to contact head office here in Thailand and cc the email to Honda Japan. The reality is if what happened to your bike happened to a bike in the USA or Europe there'd be a lot of bad press.

Edited February 21, 2011 by taichiplanet

[SumetCycle]

New grips

[sketcher]

A few pages back somebody asked for prices from Dealers in Trat - the one on the way to Laem Ngop (opposite shell garage) have red ABS 118,000+ 1500 for 'government paper' guess they mean registration and book. Now if they had one in grey it would have just been sold and i'd be 120k worse off but with a huge grin on my face!!

[Kernow86]

No they haven't sent it back- that would seriously suck because i work 50K away from my home and have no other means of getting to work. I guess i'd have to splash out and hire a Kwacker Ern6 - then there is a danger i wont want to go back!

They filled in a report and sent it to Honda "on Monday" and said they would call me to let me know the action to fix it. The bike will be due for an oil change on the weekend so i can take it in and ask them whats happening. I think they'll be open as in the past they have been open on public hols.

The bikes performance hasn't been affected at all but the noise is ever present and wouldn't help when i want to sell it!

So I finally got an answer after having to go the dealer and ask in person.

The dealer claims that AP Honda said the noise "doesn't matter"!

What do you all think of that? Surely its not acceptable to have a brand new bike sounding like shit at 5K rpm .

What should be my next move? Contact Honda myslef and complain?

Define "sounding like shit"... Perhaps there is a problem, perhaps there isn't... You mentioned performance isn't affected...

There is a 'knocking' sound when accelerating between 4-5k rpm. It is most noticable in 4th 5th 6th and when the engine is under stress or labouring.

When the dealer was telling me Honda said its 'nothing to worry about' he couldn't explain where the noise was coming from. He opened the maintainence manual and pointed to the cam shaft.

Perfermance is not effected as far as i can tell.

Sucks

[Kernow86]

Oh I forgot to mention..

The dealer also said in many more words, that there was another bike in Phuket with the same problem! He said I am one of only 2! I think he thought that would make me feel better.

[RED21]

Oh I forgot to mention..

The dealer also said in many more words, that there was another bike in Phuket with the same problem! He said I am one of only 2! I think he thought that would make me feel better.

Still... it is a problem and should be remedied... Especially since the bike is still under warranty and almost all of the other new owners have not encountered the same problem (Dom-appropriate, Brian-SumetCycle, or any other new CBR 250 owner?).

Maybe the dealer is waiting for the problem to grow to a point that it breaks something after the warranty runs out.

[Kernow86]

Oh I forgot to mention..

The dealer also said in many more words, that there was another bike in Phuket with the same problem! He said I am one of only 2! I think he thought that would make me feel better.

Still... it is a problem and should be remedied... Especially since the bike is still under warranty and almost all of the other new owners have not encountered the same problem (Dom-appropriate, Brian-SumetCycle, or any other new CBR 250 owner?).

Maybe the dealer is waiting for the problem to grow to a point that it breaks something after the warranty runs out.

I hope not. I could be banned from TV for attempting to name and shame! JJ moderators. Plus thus far the dealer has been good with everything else.

I think the best course of action is to contact AP Honda and get a full explenation, written if needs be. That may clear some questions i have. Such as: What is making the noise? Why doesnt it need to be fixed?

Pain in the ass but still having fun on her! 555

[appropriate]

Such as: What is making the noise? Why doesnt it need to be fixed?

Fair questions that should be answered.

I would guess they either do not know, or know and don't want to replace/fix it. Probably the first one.