Uk Pension

[jacknorman]

Wondering if anybody has used a uk/american company that advertise on certain forums called Windsor pensions

They replied to my e mail promptly With a file to downland the authorisation form Checked them out on a few forums an most people said they were ok

Has anybody got any first or secondhand experience

Many thanks

[wordchild]

no direct experience but i think they have been associated in the past with QROP schemes that were against the UK pension rules, eg early cashing out of pension funds. these sorts of schemes are very dangerous (they can leave you with a massive tax liability) and if that is what they are promoting be v careful. Do a search on google "windsor pensions scam" plenty of background.

Edited October 19, 2010 by wordchild

[chiang mai]

Also no first hand experience but an observation or two:

QROPS has got something of a tarnished reputation over the past few years, illegal schemes (check with the HMRC first to see if a particular scheme is approved), fraudulent brokers against whom there is no comeback since they are usually unregulated (Windsor doesn't operate in territories where there is a regulatory authority in place, they're not registered in the UK, the US or Spain), high commissions (why not have an onshore UK IFA manage the transfer for a fixed fee, 1.5% vs 10, 15 or 20%), and finally, applicants not being fully aware of the cost implications of taking their pension early in this way. Be careful is all I can add and do your homework first.

[wordchild]

Also no first hand experience but an observation or two:

QROPS has got something of a tarnished reputation over the past few years, illegal schemes (check with the HMRC first to see if a particular scheme is approved), fraudulent brokers against whom there is no comeback since they are usually unregulated (Windsor doesn't operate in territories where there is a regulatory authority in place, they're not registered in the UK, the US or Spain), high commissions (why not have an onshore UK IFA manage the transfer for a fixed fee, 1.5% vs 10, 15 or 20%), and finally, applicants not being fully aware of the cost implications of taking their pension early in this way. Be careful is all I can add and do your homework first.

Agree with all of that but would add that even where a scheme is on the HMRC approved QROP list HMRC can still withdraw approval and retrospectively come after members (or former members) of the scheme if they deem that there has been abuse eg early cashing out.

I personaly think QROPs are well worth a look at, as a pension solution, for a long-term expat (and i have one myself). They have a number of advantages over UK based schemes but caution is advised. As has been said on this forum many times before its better/safer to stay clear of "offshore" ifa,s and brokers and use regulated UK based advisors

[Kwasaki]

My UK pension along with my very small private pension is being pay into my UK bank/building societies and l am going to draw it from here in Thailand an and as l want the same l do my savings for now.

The Nationwide building society are good in UK they do not charge for overseas ATM withdrawals as the Aeon ATM.

From other ATM's 150 bht charge otherwise.

[manhattan55]

Also no first hand experience but an observation or two:

QROPS has got something of a tarnished reputation over the past few years, illegal schemes (check with the HMRC first to see if a particular scheme is approved), fraudulent brokers against whom there is no comeback since they are usually unregulated (Windsor doesn't operate in territories where there is a regulatory authority in place, they're not registered in the UK, the US or Spain), high commissions (why not have an onshore UK IFA manage the transfer for a fixed fee, 1.5% vs 10, 15 or 20%), and finally, applicants not being fully aware of the cost implications of taking their pension early in this way. Be careful is all I can add and do your homework first.

Agree with all of that but would add that even where a scheme is on the HMRC approved QROP list HMRC can still withdraw approval and retrospectively come after members (or former members) of the scheme if they deem that there has been abuse eg early cashing out.

I personaly think QROPs are well worth a look at, as a pension solution, for a long-term expat (and i have one myself). They have a number of advantages over UK based schemes but caution is advised. As has been said on this forum many times before its better/safer to stay clear of "offshore" ifa,s and brokers and use regulated UK based advisors

I second Worldchild's comments (Iam also in a QROPS),but would like to add that there are reputable advisors in BKK. I use one and he has been absolutely professional, his firm voluntarily adheres to the security regulations of Hong Kong, his fees are comparably lower and his local presence is of great advantage. I mention this because over and over again I read of what I believe to be overly negative comments on offshore IFAs. With some effort you can find someone out there who is professional.

[chiang mai]

Also no first hand experience but an observation or two:

QROPS has got something of a tarnished reputation over the past few years, illegal schemes (check with the HMRC first to see if a particular scheme is approved), fraudulent brokers against whom there is no comeback since they are usually unregulated (Windsor doesn't operate in territories where there is a regulatory authority in place, they're not registered in the UK, the US or Spain), high commissions (why not have an onshore UK IFA manage the transfer for a fixed fee, 1.5% vs 10, 15 or 20%), and finally, applicants not being fully aware of the cost implications of taking their pension early in this way. Be careful is all I can add and do your homework first.

Agree with all of that but would add that even where a scheme is on the HMRC approved QROP list HMRC can still withdraw approval and retrospectively come after members (or former members) of the scheme if they deem that there has been abuse eg early cashing out.

I personaly think QROPs are well worth a look at, as a pension solution, for a long-term expat (and i have one myself). They have a number of advantages over UK based schemes but caution is advised. As has been said on this forum many times before its better/safer to stay clear of "offshore" ifa,s and brokers and use regulated UK based advisors

I second Worldchild's comments (Iam also in a QROPS),but would like to add that there are reputable advisors in BKK. I use one and he has been absolutely professional, his firm voluntarily adheres to the security regulations of Hong Kong, his fees are comparably lower and his local presence is of great advantage. I mention this because over and over again I read of what I believe to be overly negative comments on offshore IFAs. With some effort you can find someone out there who is professional.

Your statement "voluntarily adheres to the security regulations of Hong Kong", raises lots of questions but I'm not going to raise them! More importantly, have you figured out what their charges were for making the QROPS transfer and tell us honestly, were they greater than 1.5% of the fund value?

[manhattan55]

Also no first hand experience but an observation or two:

QROPS has got something of a tarnished reputation over the past few years, illegal schemes (check with the HMRC first to see if a particular scheme is approved), fraudulent brokers against whom there is no comeback since they are usually unregulated (Windsor doesn't operate in territories where there is a regulatory authority in place, they're not registered in the UK, the US or Spain), high commissions (why not have an onshore UK IFA manage the transfer for a fixed fee, 1.5% vs 10, 15 or 20%), and finally, applicants not being fully aware of the cost implications of taking their pension early in this way. Be careful is all I can add and do your homework first.

Agree with all of that but would add that even where a scheme is on the HMRC approved QROP list HMRC can still withdraw approval and retrospectively come after members (or former members) of the scheme if they deem that there has been abuse eg early cashing out.

I personaly think QROPs are well worth a look at, as a pension solution, for a long-term expat (and i have one myself). They have a number of advantages over UK based schemes but caution is advised. As has been said on this forum many times before its better/safer to stay clear of "offshore" ifa,s and brokers and use regulated UK based advisors

I second Worldchild's comments (Iam also in a QROPS),but would like to add that there are reputable advisors in BKK. I use one and he has been absolutely professional, his firm voluntarily adheres to the security regulations of Hong Kong, his fees are comparably lower and his local presence is of great advantage. I mention this because over and over again I read of what I believe to be overly negative comments on offshore IFAs. With some effort you can find someone out there who is professional.

Your statement "voluntarily adheres to the security regulations of Hong Kong", raises lots of questions but I'm not going to raise them! More importantly, have you figured out what their charges were for making the QROPS transfer and tell us honestly, were they greater than 1.5% of the fund value?

The transfer fee was exactly 1.5% of the transfer value.

[wordchild]

the good news is that QROP costs have come down a fair bit over the last couple of years and it should now be possible (depending on fund size) to transfer for an all-in cost lower than that. It is usualy better, esp for larger funds, to negotiate up-front a fixed cash amount as a fee rather than a percentage for both the providor and for any work from the IFA. Invariably bundled is more expensive.

Edited October 21, 2010 by wordchild

[121Advice]

As a fully authorised IFA and regulated (FSA) based in Bangkok I totally agree with the caution expressed concerning offshore regulated financial advisers, as the level of qualification/entry requirements, solvency margins and standard of advice given can be HIGHLY dubious. QROPS can be a solution for a UK Expat, more importantly because of the fact that the pension 'pot' can be passed-on to the next generation upon your demise. However most individuals are seduced by the higher levels of cash that can be extracted and many end up eroding capital too quickly - something we didn't see before with conventional annuities. Of course with interest/annuity rates in the UK so poor (unless you are about to drop dead tomorrow) investors are wise to consider ALL the options available to them.

It is interesting to note that the majority of the larger and well respected IFA firms based in the highly regulated Singapore environment have ceased advising on QROPS, in the main due to concerns over the potential HMRC backlash which is turning into a ticking time bomb. The last blogger is 'on the money' when he mentions HMRC concerns over QROPS. If it sounds too good to be true......?

An underlying principle of HMRC legislation is the undertaking of the UK taxpayer to "enter into the spirit of the law" and QROPS undermine this [revised pension act] on several points. It would naive to think that some kind of retrospective legislation will not be imposed on ANY UK individual who, after transferring to a QROPS scheme, subsequently takes more that 25% tax free cash [lump sum].

A mute point, but anyone who transfers to QROPS and subsequently gets divorced will pay a dear price for their matrimonial 'freedom' when the courts agree the divorce settlement, as HMRC will step in and levy a 35% tax charge on any amount passed to ex from your pension 'pot'.

I do not wish to sound too negative about QROPS as like I have said, they do have their place. But they are by no means the answer to everything and too many IFA's focus on £'s.

[Chester]

Just avoid portfolio bonds being a part of your QROPS and you will be fine. Use a licensed Discretionary Funbd Manager to manage your money. I havent found one IFA in Thailand that is willing to sell QROPs without the obligatory, extremely high commission earning Portfolio bond. You are better off to use a QROPS + cash deposit accout. 13% is a lot to lose from a bond.

As a fully authorised IFA and regulated (FSA) based in Bangkok I totally agree with the caution expressed concerning offshore regulated financial advisers, as the level of qualification/entry requirements, solvency margins and standard of advice given can be HIGHLY dubious. QROPS can be a solution for a UK Expat, more importantly because of the fact that the pension 'pot' can be passed-on to the next generation upon your demise. However most individuals are seduced by the higher levels of cash that can be extracted and many end up eroding capital too quickly - something we didn't see before with conventional annuities. Of course with interest/annuity rates in the UK so poor (unless you are about to drop dead tomorrow) investors are wise to consider ALL the options available to them.

It is interesting to note that the majority of the larger and well respected IFA firms based in the highly regulated Singapore environment have ceased advising on QROPS, in the main due to concerns over the potential HMRC backlash which is turning into a ticking time bomb. The last blogger is 'on the money' when he mentions HMRC concerns over QROPS. If it sounds too good to be true......?

An underlying principle of HMRC legislation is the undertaking of the UK taxpayer to "enter into the spirit of the law" and QROPS undermine this [revised pension act] on several points. It would naive to think that some kind of retrospective legislation will not be imposed on ANY UK individual who, after transferring to a QROPS scheme, subsequently takes more that 25% tax free cash [lump sum].

A mute point, but anyone who transfers to QROPS and subsequently gets divorced will pay a dear price for their matrimonial 'freedom' when the courts agree the divorce settlement, as HMRC will step in and levy a 35% tax charge on any amount passed to ex from your pension 'pot'.

I do not wish to sound too negative about QROPS as like I have said, they do have their place. But they are by no means the answer to everything and too many IFA's focus on £'s.

[pkrv]

My UK pension along with my very small private pension is being pay into my UK bank/building societies and l am going to draw it from here in Thailand an and as l want the same l do my savings for now.

The Nationwide building society are good in UK they do not charge for overseas ATM withdrawals as the Aeon ATM.

From other ATM's 150 bht charge otherwise.

Your information is out of date - Nationwide have changed their policy - you will be hit by multiple charges.

[expatworld]

There are a lot of companies out there, some charge incredibly high fees. After a lot of research I came across the qrops specialist and transferred my pension. Very good service and some of the lowest fees around.

[pbthailand]

Hi I checked them out as I had a small private pension that I wanted to cash (about 12k) but they didn't seem to be able to give me more than 30% for QROPS transfer. I therefore went to Asia Pacific Pensions who were able to do 100% for me.

[Pib]

My UK pension along with my very small private pension is being pay into my UK bank/building societies and l am going to draw it from here in Thailand an and as l want the same l do my savings for now.

The Nationwide building society are good in UK they do not charge for overseas ATM withdrawals as the Aeon ATM.

From other ATM's 150 bht charge otherwise.

Your information is out of date - Nationwide have changed their policy - you will be hit by multiple charges.

Yeap on the overseas ATM withdrawals...see the Nationwide Link on its foreign transaction fees (they apply two fees for cash withdrawals) when using their debit card. And even if using an AEON ATM to avoid the 150 baht foreign card fee that Thai bank ATMs apply, the Nationwide fees still apply.

[meatboy]

Hi I checked them out as I had a small private pension that I wanted to cash (about 12k) but they didn't seem to be able to give me more than 30% for QROPS transfer. I therefore went to Asia Pacific Pensions who were able to do 100% for me.

if the your private pension is only 12k i am sure you can have it paid as a lump sum,under the trivial amount in your pot.

[meatboy]

Hi I checked them out as I had a small private pension that I wanted to cash (about 12k) but they didn't seem to be able to give me more than 30% for QROPS transfer. I therefore went to Asia Pacific Pensions who were able to do 100% for me.

if the your private pension is only 12k i am sure you can have it paid as a lump sum,under the trivial amount in your pot.

just checked on the pension advisory sight as long as the total is under 18k you can take it as a lump sum,only drawback it will be taxed if your a non tax payer yippeeeeeeeeeeeeee.new car?

[bendix]

Hi I checked them out as I had a small private pension that I wanted to cash (about 12k) but they didn't seem to be able to give me more than 30% for QROPS transfer. I therefore went to Asia Pacific Pensions who were able to do 100% for me.

if the your private pension is only 12k i am sure you can have it paid as a lump sum,under the trivial amount in your pot.

just checked on the pension advisory sight as long as the total is under 18k you can take it as a lump sum,only drawback it will be taxed if your a non tax payer yippeeeeeeeeeeeeee.new car?

This is not entirely true. While it is true pension pots under 18k can be taken out as a lump sum under the triviality rule, it can only be done by those over 55.

[transam]

Hi I checked them out as I had a small private pension that I wanted to cash (about 12k) but they didn't seem to be able to give me more than 30% for QROPS transfer. I therefore went to Asia Pacific Pensions who were able to do 100% for me.

if the your private pension is only 12k i am sure you can have it paid as a lump sum,under the trivial amount in your pot.

just checked on the pension advisory sight as long as the total is under 18k you can take it as a lump sum,only drawback it will be taxed if your a non tax payer yippeeeeeeeeeeeeee.new car?

This is not entirely true. While it is true pension pots under 18k can be taken out as a lump sum under the triviality rule, it can only be done by those over 55.

I believe for over 60's.

[bendix]

My apologies transam. You're correct. Trivial commutation of UK private pensions can't be done until you are 60 and can only be done to pension pots who's total value is less than 1% of the Standard Lifetime Allowance, which is currently GBP 1.8m.