ปากตลาด

[tgeezer]

ปากตลาด I wonder about this, is it Thai?

If there is a definition tell me, otherwise tell the context in which it was used when you encountered it.

[rgs2001uk]

I have never heard a Thai use this phrase,

ปากจัด or ปากหมา is more often heard.

Many times some wrongly think you can take an English phrase and translate to Thai and have the same meaning.

I have been on medication this week for what the Thais refer to as,

ตาคุณหญิง

try translating that literally into English, it doesnt work.

Edited October 19, 2010 by rgs2001uk

[ngieen]

ปากตลาด is an expression in Thai means very much พูดมาก

[SimonN]

ปากตลาด is an expression in Thai means very much พูดมาก

To spread rumours, perhaps.

[SimonN]

Two definitions can be found in the RID:

น. ถ้อยคําที่โจษหรือเล่าลือกัน เช่น ปากตลาดเขาว่ากันมาอย่างนี้.

ว. ปากจัด.

[DavidHouston]

Here is a usage in a sentence from Matichon Weekly from August of this year:

". . . ในขณะนั้นเป็นเรื่องที่ผิดศีลธรรมและรับไม่ได้ที่ชายหนุ่มจะรักกับผู้หญิงที่แก่กว่า เพื่อหลีกหนีพวกปากตลาดและการดูถูกของสังคมทั้งคู่ตัดสินใจพากันหนีและอาศัยอยู่ในถ้ำ . . . "

"At that time, it was both immoral and socially unacceptable for a young man to fall in love with an older woman. In order to avoid the town gossips and the censure of society, the couple decided to elope and live in a cave."

I therefore agree with the others here that ปากตลาด seems to refer to people who are "gossips", "tongue-waggers", "tale-tellers", and the like.

[Tod Daniels]

I have been on medication this week for what the Thais refer to as,

ตาคุณหญิง

try translating that literally into English, it doesnt work.

OFF TOPIC. ..

Are you sure you're not being treated for this: ตากุ้งยิง ?? Which is like a stye in your eye, BUT not to be confused with ตาแดง which is pink eye. The first phrase I mentioned turns up more Google hits than "princess eye" does.

[tgeezer]

So 'gossip' is the close meaning.

As a retort to being offended by a comment containing the word 'farang', it would seem to lack the 'punch' which offended ฝรั้ง are perhaps looking for.

We did not answer the original post, but the helpful replies to mine seem to say that the answer to Bubba's post (now closed) is 'no it is not'. .

Edited October 20, 2010 by tgeezer

[Rikker]

Several people answered the OP's question in that thread, tgeezer.

As cited by SimonN above, the Royal Institute dictionary gives two definitions of the phrase:

น. ถ้อยคําที่โจษหรือเล่าลือกัน เช่น ปากตลาดเขาว่ากันมาอย่างนี้.

ว. ปากจัด.

First, as a noun meaning something akin to 'the rumor mill'. Second, as a descriptor meaning something akin to 'sharp-tongued'.

But looking at the basic meaning doesn't tell you what kind of reaction using the phrase will elicit in another person. One must understand the connotations.

Whether the farang who hears the term applied to them finds it offensive or not, it is unlikely that the Thai uttering it intends offense. So responding with ปากตลาด is intentionally provocative. The term is often used condescendingly, to demean the target for their lack of class or refinement.

So I don't think the phrase lacks punch at all -- on the contrary, it's likely to get a person punched instead. That's why it's not a good response.

[DavidHouston]

Wow! If we could only concentrate on learning the language, rather than psychoanalyzing Thai society, think how advanced we would be. I thought that this follow-on thread would allow us to discuss the Thai phrases, definitions, usages, and syntax without reference to the original poster's chip-on-the-shoulder-driven psyche from the now-closed thread.

Rikker, please don't taint this thread with sins of the fathers; you might find yourself having to close this one too. However, I do appreciate your outlining the twin definitions from the RID.

[rgs2001uk]

I have been on medication this week for what the Thais refer to as,

ตาคุณหญิง

try translating that literally into English, it doesnt work.

OFF TOPIC. ..

Are you sure you're not being treated for this: ตากุ้งยิง ?? Which is like a stye in your eye, BUT not to be confused with ตาแดง which is pink eye. The first phrase I mentioned turns up more Google hits than "princess eye" does.

You are of course correct Tod, indeed not the dreaded red eye but a stye.

The young lady I was having a laugh with was I fear having a play on words, she told me my ตากุ้งยิง was the result of looking at too many ladies.

[tgeezer]

Wow! If we could only concentrate on learning the language, rather than psychoanalyzing Thai society, think how advanced we would be. I thought that this follow-on thread would allow us to discuss the Thai phrases, definitions, usages, and syntax without reference to the original poster's chip-on-the-shoulder-driven psyche from the now-closed thread.

Rikker, please don't taint this thread with sins of the fathers; you might find yourself having to close this one too. However, I do appreciate your outlining the twin definitions from the RID.

So we deduce that the receiver ผู้รับสาร is not going to take it as a noun, so it must be the วิเศษณ์ 'ปากจัด' which describes a person who likes to speak in a certain way, 'sharp tongued' is the English in my book. .

In spite of Rikkers assertions to the contrary, it doesn't seem provocative, in market traders it might be taken as a compliment!

ngian says that it is an expression meaning พูดมาก which I have only heard as a bad comment on a person more than as an invitation for an argument.

My question is 'is saying the word ปากตลาด at someone who says the word ฝรั่ง in your vicinity likely to be taken as provocative? because otherwise it would only produce confusion.

It doesn't seem to me that it will produce a punch, puzzlement more likely, especially since no offence was intended.

.

Edited October 21, 2010 by tgeezer

[a51mas]

The word ปาก if used in front of a place it means "the entrance of" so, " meet me at ปากตลาด" means meet me at the entrance of the market, or it can be use in front of the words "soi" (alley), or "klong"(canal) etc....

[tgeezer]

The word ปาก if used in front of a place it means "the entrance of" so, " meet me at ปากตลาด" means meet me at the entrance of the market, or it can be use in front of the words "soi" (alley), or "klong"(canal) etc....

I agree with that but we are looking at the meaning as one word; ปากตลาด meaning ปากจัด. Welcome to the board.

I now that I am reunited with my books (arrived from UK today) I see that the answer to my question:

'is it Thai?' is 'Yes'.

It is not rough ('rude') talk of itself but since it describes rudeness, 'argumentative' is my take on it, RID 'dresses it up' but does use พูดจา for พูด, my RID says that จา is the North Eastern dialect for พูด, กล่าว so is that saying something about the form of speech?

ปากจัด covers three sorts of speech but if you think of a market trader sounding off over some dispute or other I suppose it means that. พูดมาก พูดหยาบ โต้เถี่ยงกัน โต้แย้ง all apply in some way.

I lack the exposure to spoken Thai and am trying to improve.

[meadish_sweetball]

RID 'dresses it up' but does use พูดจา for พูด, my RID says that จา is the North Eastern dialect for พูด, กล่าว so is that saying something about the form of speech?

No, พูดจา is just a so called 'elaborate expression' and a more elegant way of saying the same thing as พูด.

[DavidHouston]

RID 'dresses it up' but does use พูดจา for พูด, my RID says that จา is the North Eastern dialect for พูด, กล่าว so is that saying something about the form of speech?

No, พูดจา is just a so called 'elaborate expression' and a more elegant way of saying the same thing as พูด.

I agree with Meadish:

RID: พูดจา ก. พูด.

[Aommie]

Hi everybody,

I just found this forum by accident and think that it's very cool. I'm a Thai native speaker with a decent experience of teaching Thai language. So, ฝากเนื้อฝากตัวด้วยนะคะ I will try my best to help you guys clarify these questions.

For the question ปากตลาด, it comes from ปาก = mouth and ตลาด = market. In the old time when there was still no computer or internet, the market (ตลาด) is the place where people go buy stuff and socialize with others. Since the community was still small (because the transportation was still not developed), news or rumors or scandals would spread widely from here. That's why ปากตลาด becomes an idiom for a person who talks a lot and always creates/spreads rumors.

However, ปากจัด is a little different. จัด in this word is the same one as the one in รสจัด. The tasty food (implying that it's spicy and has a lot of favors) is described as อาหารรสจัด. In a similar context, the direct root translation for ปากจัด would be "tasty/spicy mouth". So, ปากจัด means a person with "sharp tongued" or always says things that create hard feeling to listeners.

I hope these answers help. If you need further clarification, please let me know na ka. ^_________^

[tgeezer]

Hi everybody,

I hope these answers help. If you need further clarification, please let me know na ka. ^_________^

Once again, thank you. A great help.

[farangnahrak]

I agree, Aommie is awesome!

Now for off topic . . .

Here is a usage in a sentence from Matichon Weekly from August of this year:

". . . ในขณะนั้นเป็นเรื่องที่ผิดศีลธรรมและรับไม่ได้ที่ชายหนุ่มจะรักกับผู้หญิงที่แก่กว่า เพื่อหลีกหนีพวกปากตลาดและการดูถูกของสังคมทั้งคู่ตัดสินใจพากันหนีและอาศัยอยู่ในถ้ำ . . . "

"At that time, it was both immoral and socially unacceptable for a young man to fall in love with an older woman. In order to avoid the town gossips and the censure of society, the couple decided to elope and live in a cave."

I heard this Chinese story many years ago . . . I once dated an older Thai woman (I'm in my 20's, not a problem!) . . . soon after we started dating she sent me and all her friends this story by email.

Memories . . .

[tgeezer]

I agree, Aommie is awesome!

Now for off topic . . .

Here is a usage in a sentence from Matichon Weekly from August of this year:

". . . ในขณะนั้นเป็นเรื่องที่ผิดศีลธรรมและรับไม่ได้ที่ชายหนุ่มจะรักกับผู้หญิงที่แก่กว่า เพื่อหลีกหนีพวกปากตลาดและการดูถูกของสังคมทั้งคู่ตัดสินใจพากันหนีและอาศัยอยู่ในถ้ำ . . . "

"At that time, it was both immoral and socially unacceptable for a young man to fall in love with an older woman. In order to avoid the town gossips and the censure of society, the couple decided to elope and live in a cave."

I heard this Chinese story many years ago . . . I once dated an older Thai woman (I'm in my 20's, not a problem!) . . . soon after we started dating she sent me and all her friends this story by email.

Memories . . .

Did she speak as clearly as she wrote? Even I can understand that. She must have been a joy to be around.

[farangnahrak]

Did she speak as clearly as she wrote? Even I can understand that. She must have been a joy to be around.

you lost me . . .