Bhum Jai Thai Tight-Lipped About PM Abhisit's Furor

[whybother]

How does antagonsing the army into shooting you help your demands for an immediate election? Were they trying to be shot so that they got sympathy and more support?

you tell me, you are the one that is saying they were trying to antagonize the army into shooting them, I never said that.

It seems you guys in your little ganging up exercise are starting to confuse yourselves now

In a response to a question as to why the red shirts were trying to antagonize the army into shooting them, you responded that it was to get immediate elections.

Now you're not saying that?

[random]

I clearly gave you an answer in my reply as to why, do you go blind when an answer contradicts what you believe. read my reply, the answer is clearly there.

You explained to us why they were protesting. You did not explain your opinion on why they chose to antagonise the military in the way they did.

You don't seem to be able to answer that one, and it's obvious why.

it is not my opinion that they were trying to antagonize the military, that is your opinion, so my opinion is they were not trying to antagonize the military

[random]

"will show" = an absolute

"it is possible" = "I was wrong"

saying that I claimed to be an expert = you were wrong

[thaihome]

I don't think it is in dispute that some red shirts had weapons, as well as the secretive men in black. The issue is as to whether all those killed by the army were in fact armed or even constituting a direct threat, and the fact that this journalist was unarmed and shot by the army, and his point is there was no direct threat around him that constituted the army firing live rounds in his direction, and even if there was a threat around him then the live firing was at best random.

Here is a picture taken from behind the barricades on Rama IV, well outside the protest area, taken days before the Army moved into the protest area itself. If you are standing anywhere near this guy, you are one a fool, and two pretty much asking to get shot.

If you are the press, then you are taking your life in your hands in order to get a photo.

The Army was not in crowed control mode where they move in mass formation, firing rubber bullets to break up the mob. As they were taking both gunfire and grenade attacks, they were in full combat mode. They were taking cover behind sandbag emplacements with the first priority of not getting shot. Second priority is put down suppression fire in order to get people like the guy in the photo to stop.

Again, if you are anywhere near this guy, you are not an innocent unarmed, peaceful protestor. The autopsies don't matter. There is little doubt, most of the dead were shot by the Army. What matters is what was the situation when they got shot. Where they standing near people like this? If so, then I am very sorry, but you really should have left when you had the chance and not listened to the UDD leadership that was encouraging people to go outside the barricades and attack the Army setting up check points around the protest area.

TH

[random]

How does antagonsing the army into shooting you help your demands for an immediate election? Were they trying to be shot so that they got sympathy and more support?

you tell me, you are the one that is saying they were trying to antagonize the army into shooting them, I never said that.

It seems you guys in your little ganging up exercise are starting to confuse yourselves now

In a response to a question as to why the red shirts were trying to antagonize the army into shooting them, you responded that it was to get immediate elections.

Now you're not saying that?

my reply was aimed as to why they were there, at no point do I say they were there to antagonize the military to shoot at them, it is clear from my answer they were there to force an immediate election and not to antagonize the army, maybe I will have to be clearer for the hard of thinking.

[Buchholz]

Moving from insults to overly aggressive attempts at intimidation is not an improvement.

Anyway, I wash my hands of your nonsense.

Random has obfuscated enough ....

I am finished with him

I will stop replying on this before my blood pressure starts playing up

random has hit the trifecta

[Insight]

it is not my opinion that they were trying to antagonize the military, that is your opinion, so my opinion is they were not trying to antagonize the military

I guess you didn't watch the clip then. No problems. There are others available if you don't like that one.

[random]

I don't think it is in dispute that some red shirts had weapons, as well as the secretive men in black. The issue is as to whether all those killed by the army were in fact armed or even constituting a direct threat, and the fact that this journalist was unarmed and shot by the army, and his point is there was no direct threat around him that constituted the army firing live rounds in his direction, and even if there was a threat around him then the live firing was at best random.

Here is a picture taken from behind the barricades on Rama IV, well outside the protest area, taken days before the Army moved into the protest area itself. If you are standing anywhere near this guy, you are one a fool, and two pretty much asking to get shot.

If you are the press, then you are taking your life in your hands in order to get a photo.

The Army was not in crowed control mode where they move in mass formation, firing rubber bullets to break up the mob. As they were taking both gunfire and grenade attacks, they were in full combat mode. They were taking cover behind sandbag emplacements with the first priority of not getting shot. Second priority is put down suppression fire in order to get people like the guy in the photo to stop.

Again, if you are anywhere near this guy, you are not an innocent unarmed, peaceful protestor. The autopsies don't matter. There is little doubt, most of the dead were shot by the Army. What matters is what was the situation when they got shot. Where they standing near people like this? If so, then I am very sorry, but you really should have left when you had the chance and not listened to the UDD leadership that was encouraging people to go outside the barricades and attack the Army setting up check points around the protest area.

TH

at last a sensible post, however I disagree, I don't think collateral damage is acceptable in this instance, if the military are not able to hit their target (when we know they are based on the snipers they had) then surely they should not be firing.

[random]

Moving from insults to overly aggressive attempts at intimidation is not an improvement.

Anyway, I wash my hands of your nonsense.

Random has obfuscated enough ....

I am finished with him

I will stop replying on this before my blood pressure starts playing up

random has hit the trifecta

I would rather upset these three bigmouths than the Russian mafia like you managed to do in the other thread

[random]

Anyway guys, I have things to do now, nice playing with all, play nicely after I have gone

[JetsetBkk]

Behind the silence is the unspoken "Oh shit" as BJT realizes they have overplayed their hand. Abhisit hasn't been PM for two years during the most amazing turmoil because of his good looks - he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.

Are you Mark Vej's PR man?

[whybother]

my reply was aimed as to why they were there, at no point do I say they were there to antagonize the military to shoot at them, it is clear from my answer they were there to force an immediate election and not to antagonize the army, maybe I will have to be clearer for the hard of thinking.

You don't think setting up barricades and then GOING OUTSIDE those barricades to attack the army is antagonizing?

[JetsetBkk]

Behind the silence is the unspoken "Oh shit" as BJT realizes they have overplayed their hand. Abhisit hasn't been PM for two years during the most amazing turmoil because of his good looks - he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.

suggest whitening cream for the brown nose

If only I could give you a reputation point!

[jdinasia]

He gets caught out and ........ poof! Gone.

Abhisit has certainly done what I thought from observing and reading Thai history, something that was impossible. In the past when the army has killed civilians in Bangkok, the government fell. This time was different, mainly because (imho) the people saw that it wasn't a situation where people were protesting peacefully. It was a situation that. in my mind, can only be called an armed insurrection.

I have said from the beginning that the grass roots Red shirts have valid complaints that MUST be addressed. I have also said from the beginning that the Red leadership was and remains .... only about Thaksin.

To the original topic ---- I am not a fan of Newin but in my opinion he is one of the most politically adroit/savvy people in Thailand.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

I know that you will reply that it was a Live Fire Zone and therefore anyone there was at risk of being shot but was shooting a 15 year old in the head really necessary, even in a "Live Fire Zone", let alone firing on the people who were trying to recover the bodies?

It may not have been 'really' necessary, but when people venture in areas they were expressly told not to on pain of risking being shot, what do you expect ?

The army was getting trounced again the day before, by protesters who didn't want them to succeed encircling their encampment. Should the army have been more careful shooting, yes probably. Unfortunately the police who normally do this type of cleanup protesters actions didn't do their job. The Thai army (any army?) is not taught much in crowd control (if any), not their regular job. So expect mistakes. As for 'war weapons' symantics, Thai generals can easily become politicians as you should know

[jdinasia]

Assigning blame to almost any individual death during May is almost impossible. Assigning blame for some of the deaths but not all of them in April is a less daunting proposal.

What we know.

The Reds were warned.

Some Reds were armed.

Reds fired weapons.

The Army fired weapons.

What we don't know....

Why the 'peaceful' Reds allowed armed agents amongst them.

Why the Reds left the central area of their illegal protest and started attacking the Army.

Who killed Seh Daeng.

Why the 'peaceful' protest wasn't stopped BEFORE it started, at least in so much as having Arisaman arrested amongst others before he got to BKK when he was openly calling for burning BKK down.

Many people (myself included) believe that there were elements allowed inside the Red camp that would willingly martyr Redshirts on the assumption that it would be blamed on the Army and lead to the fall of the Abhisit government. Video footage seems to show this not to be an unreasonable idea even if it is totally reprehensible.

This thread though ....... is about the relationship between BJT and the Dems. I think that this relationship is not quite as fragile as it appears from the outside.

[rubl]

begin removed (off topic, blame me too ) ...

This thread though ....... is about the relationship between BJT and the Dems. I think that this relationship is not quite as fragile as it appears from the outside.

Maybe a bit of muscle twitching, position redefinition. Maybe all those 5-point plans and reconciliations proposals get annoying. Maybe the graft scandals get too obvious. Maybe insecurity. Maybe ...

[jdinasia]

begin removed (off topic, blame me too ) ...

This thread though ....... is about the relationship between BJT and the Dems. I think that this relationship is not quite as fragile as it appears from the outside.

Maybe a bit of muscle twitching, position redefinition. Maybe all those 5-point plans and reconciliations proposals get annoying. Maybe the graft scandals get too obvious. Maybe insecurity. Maybe ...

Maybe simply obfuscation and misdirection .... "Here's something that will get them talking about ..." It has been done enough in this thread that you can see how well it works!

[SomTumTiger]

Behind the silence is the unspoken "Oh shit" as BJT realizes they have overplayed their hand. Abhisit hasn't been PM for two years during the most amazing turmoil because of his good looks - he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.

suggest whitening cream for the brown nose

If only I could give you a reputation point!

Say what you want about me, but Mark is still PM, two years after the barstool sexpats said he wouldn't last out the month. He has more staying power then most of you (before your viagra, of course ).

[scorecard]

These guys are in the current government. They are not the nicest once as we know it.

But the statement from Abhisit came not to bitch about the BJT, but just to establish some 'self-esteem' and to declare he isn't just together with them and sold his soul to the devil because he wanted to become the PM. He 'could' do it without them, he says.

But don't wait for the day that he will prove it, Abhisits conjunctive moods will never have consequences, is not followed by action that will ever occur.

He has proven his clean image and aversion to corruption multiple times over. He has proven through his policies that he cares for the entire country in ways seldom seen in Thai politics. Evidently you don't follow the news or read any posts that don't fit your ideology.

Very well said, totally agree!

[SergeiY]

These guys are in the current government. They are not the nicest once as we know it.

But the statement from Abhisit came not to bitch about the BJT, but just to establish some 'self-esteem' and to declare he isn't just together with them and sold his soul to the devil because he wanted to become the PM. He 'could' do it without them, he says.

But don't wait for the day that he will prove it, Abhisits conjunctive moods will never have consequences, is not followed by action that will ever occur.

He has proven his clean image and aversion to corruption multiple times over. He has proven through his policies that he cares for the entire country in ways seldom seen in Thai politics. Evidently you don't follow the news or read any posts that don't fit your ideology.

Very well said, totally agree!

Same, same.

Evidently you don't follow the news or read any posts that don't fit your ideology.

[SergeiY]

begin removed (off topic, blame me too ) ...

This thread though ....... is about the relationship between BJT and the Dems. I think that this relationship is not quite as fragile as it appears from the outside.

Maybe a bit of muscle twitching, position redefinition. Maybe all those 5-point plans and reconciliations proposals get annoying. Maybe the graft scandals get too obvious. Maybe insecurity. Maybe ...

Maybe simply obfuscation and misdirection .... "Here's something that will get them talking about ..." It has been done enough in this thread that you can see how well it works!

Its a little bit of Abhisit whitewash himself, but of course we will not see a break up of the coalition.

Suthichai Yoon gave a nice comment.

[phiphidon]

He has proven his clean image and aversion to corruption multiple times over. He has proven through his policies that he cares for the entire country in ways seldom seen in Thai politics. Evidently you don't follow the news or read any posts that don't fit your ideology.

Very well said, totally agree!

Well, his "clean image" and "proof that through his policies that he cares for the entire country" are certainly in evidence here;

What better way could you show that you care for your country by signing an agreement with another country (that coincidentally has no laws mandating environmental impact assessments for large-scale projects) for a new Industrial Zone. Coincidentally this occurs after you have had a bit of problem with your own heavy industrial area and when you state in an interview with a newspaper that Thailand needs to stop relying on heavy industry, "I don't think the people want it in their backyard". Somebody elses, no problem.

[rametindallas]

Behind the silence is the unspoken "Oh shit" as BJT realizes they have overplayed their hand. Abhisit hasn't been PM for two years during the most amazing turmoil because of his good looks - he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.

+1

[GeorgeO]

Behind the silence is the unspoken "Oh shit" as BJT realizes they have overplayed their hand. Abhisit hasn't been PM for two years during the most amazing turmoil because of his good looks - he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.

comedy gold

sorry that deserves a few more :lol::lol::lol:

he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.............Yes,you tell that to the families from all the people who were killed last april.

What has he done in the south??????Every days killing?You must be a top joker.

I find it quite unbelievable that various commentators on this forum actually believe the sort of nonsense that they write.

Anyone witn any intelligence knows what happened in April and May, and it wasn't a situation that was created by the government or Abhisit.

Yes, please do speak to the families of those that were killed, and as we have seen on YouTube, there are many of these who now confirm that they were duped by a conniving individual whose only aim was to see his funds returned and get back into total control of the food trough by overthrowing a government which, despite cries of "foul" from various quarters, is actually the only government with any legitimacy that we have seen in decades.

And if you prefer to see what we had before returning to power, then I am sure you are looking forward to several thousands of additional extra-juducual killings in the south.

[chantorn]

Behind the silence is the unspoken "Oh shit" as BJT realizes they have overplayed their hand. Abhisit hasn't been PM for two years during the most amazing turmoil because of his good looks - he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.

comedy gold

sorry that deserves a few more :lol::lol::lol:

he is also one of the most impressive politicians Thailand has ever seen.............Yes,you tell that to the families from all the people who were killed last april.

What has he done in the south??????Every days killing?You must be a top joker.

I find it quite unbelievable that various commentators on this forum actually believe the sort of nonsense that they write.

Anyone witn any intelligence knows what happened in April and May, and it wasn't a situation that was created by the government or Abhisit.

Yes, please do speak to the families of those that were killed, and as we have seen on YouTube, there are many of these who now confirm that they were duped by a conniving individual whose only aim was to see his funds returned and get back into total control of the food trough by overthrowing a government which, despite cries of "foul" from various quarters, is actually the only government with any legitimacy that we have seen in decades.

And if you prefer to see what we had before returning to power, then I am sure you are looking forward to several thousands of additional extra-juducual killings in the south.

PM of the Thai people?

I wonder how many times have he been to the North & North-East in the last 2 years?

Once to Udon I believe. An unannounced visit, and yet he has to cut it short, and just managed to escape (his own people) is less then 2 hours after touch down.

[cdnvic]

One post removed. Don't makes things up or post fantasies here. This is also not the place to be promoting movies.

[random]

He gets caught out and ........ poof! Gone.

Abhisit has certainly done what I thought from observing and reading Thai history, something that was impossible. In the past when the army has killed civilians in Bangkok, the government fell. This time was different, mainly because (imho) the people saw that it wasn't a situation where people were protesting peacefully. It was a situation that. in my mind, can only be called an armed insurrection.

I have said from the beginning that the grass roots Red shirts have valid complaints that MUST be addressed. I have also said from the beginning that the Red leadership was and remains .... only about Thaksin.

To the original topic ---- I am not a fan of Newin but in my opinion he is one of the most politically adroit/savvy people in Thailand.

Caught out?

Not at all, I just had better things to do and since you would not admit that you were telling tall tales that I supposedly said I was en expert I decided to do other things rather than wste my time.

and as for 'poof', well i would know nothing about that