Fuel Consumption For An Automatic Scooter

[tomartoh]

I am thinking of buying second hand, either a Suzuki Skydrive with fuel injection or a Suzuki Hayate with carb. Both 125cc engines.

I have never had an auto scooter before and in general hear bad reports on fuel economy, but i don't know how poor.

the open highway?

Has anyone any experience of buying a low mileage ex rental scooter. Do they get thrashed and poorly maintained, is that the norm?

Thanks for any advice.

[Atmos]

We have a carb Fino 115cc; get approx 100km on 100 baht /about 3 litres.

Don't know how this compares with other bikes like the ones you mention.

That's mainly open road 80km/h up to 100km/h which is about top speed two-up. I think that qualifies as 'hard riding' in the scooter world!

Trips are generally 90k or 180k not so often for short trips I prefer to bicycle.

13,000 trouble-free kms since last November.

I get all the servicing done at the right kms (every 3000km) , and get the Yamaha dealer to complete and stamp the book - something to look for if you're buying one. If reasonably new - the warranty is transferable so that is some peace of mind buying 2nd hand.

Re ex-rentals, there's a limit to how much a rider can 'thrash' an automatic, prior to buying I had a rental Yamaha Nouvo with 48,000km that had been rented since new on Phuket, many a tourist had ridden that one; a few crashes too; its auto transmission shuddered a lot at start off, I doubt if it had been serviced often.

One that's looked after should get a lot of kms before it dies.

The Hayates haven't been out too long? Friend bought one new early this year that 125 motor has a lot more 'go' than the Fino, nice bike for a taller person too.

[juehoe]

New Honda PCX: less than 2.5 litres for 100 kilometres.

[nattydread]

low mileage and ex rental should never appear in the same sentence. whats wrong with looking in the thaivisa ads or some of the other online sites and buying one from a farang owner

[CMX]

Having purchase a second hand automatic, and after a good deal of research, I agree 100% with those who suggest that buying a second hand bike is easier said than done.

I would only purchase one under one of three conditions:

1. I know the (ideally the only owner since purchased) seller, or the provenance of the bike itself with certainty somehow.

2. I pay extra at a dealer and get a three month warranty - or close to market price with one month. (Still a gamble involved.)

3. I expect to pay half again in repairs fairly soon - and that's after I have checked appearances of bolts, brakes, tires, and ridden it to my satisfaction (or gotten an "old hand" to make a stab at it).

I think it fair to suggest that - everything else being equal - that I lose up to 20% on fuel efficiency. Automatic motorbikes use very old technologies to transfer energy, unlike autos. Consider too the fuel type allowed by the model, which can almost match that cost figure, so getting a second hand bike that accepts "green" 91 gasahol rather than "red" 91 benzine is perhaps a 10% improvement. I'm not certain about recent 'Zuki's.

Let me remark in passing that the Skydrive has very little storage under the seat whereas the Hayate has a lot, a bigger frame, and bigger tires. Both should be lower in price than comparable Honda models - or possibly Yamahas - as Suzuki has little appreciation in Thailand for some unjust reason.

Finally, it is said almost universally that getting a bike near an experienced dealer is a very good idea.

G'luck

Edited October 23, 2010 by CMX

[apetley]

Wifeys Mio averages about 25 k/litre of fuel which aint good but it's restricted to rides around the village and too the nearby market.

My old Phantom used to average 35-40 kpl.

Next runaround will be one of the new fuel injected Honda Wave thingies. A friend reckons that they get nearly 60 kpl out of theirs.

[Thailaw]

Wifeys Mio averages about 25 k/litre of fuel which aint good but it's restricted to rides around the village and too the nearby market.

My old Phantom used to average 35-40 kpl.

Next runaround will be one of the new fuel injected Honda Wave thingies. A friend reckons that they get nearly 60 kpl out of theirs.

Gee, that will be great. You'll save 10 Baht a week on wifey's trips around the village and to the nearby market. Imagine what you can do with that!. Why anyone worries about (or thinks about) the mileage of a motorbike or considers mileage in the consideration of what motorbike to buy is beyond me (unless, of course, you are a motorbike taki driver). The differences are for the average driver pennies (or satrang) over a month. What utter trivia!

[CMX]

Trivia?

For those of us who don't use bikes very much, fuel cost considerations are not great. However, it all depends on not driving much.

I have a friend who drives a 125cc standard clutch-less Suzuki Shogun. I have an older Yamaha Hayate automatic 115cc. I get around 30km/l and he's been carefully measuring 55, quite high. Both of us have used our bikes for trips away from town so we might clock 10,000 kilometers each year. Also, I should purchase the expensive pure benzine (petrol) while he pays for gasahol. Out of curiosity one meal, we figured the differences. (Not important to this thread was the fact that his had been new, mine second-hand.)

The result, we figured out (and both of us are meticulous in measurements) that the annual difference is almost 5000 baht, not a great deal. Depending upon eating habits and budgets, however, that could translate into some considerable food.

But it might suggest that fuel costs cannot represent an argument against second-hand bikes, as OP proposes.

Edited October 23, 2010 by CMX

[jackcorbett]

Here you go. Actual Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. fuel economy figures and speculation on highway mileage 76 miles per gallon or 32.33 kilometers to the liter in Pattaya traffic most of it driving two up. Back when I created this spreadsheet I speculated how Honda could claim 118 miles to the gallon for its PCX 125.

Since then I discussed fuel mileage of the PCX with two PCX owners who live in my condo building, one German the other Norwegian. The German told me he was getting almost 300 kilometers to the tank on his PCX. My Norwegian friend told me his PCX actually got 305 kilometers on his 6.2 liter tank. Apparently then Honda does deliver the goods with the PCX. I do not think a Honda Wave is going to do much better than this if at all. And since you would have a 6.2 liter tank with a PCX and the Wave has a much smaller one you will no doubt find your fuel economy to at least seem to be much higher than you will with the manual transmission or semi autos because you will be going much further between fill ups.

However, the German PCX owner no longer is a PCX owner. His bike was stolen from the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital parking lot while he was visiting his mother. When he went back to Honda the people he talked with there told him it wouldn't matter what he'd wind up doing to secure his 2nd PCX if he bought a new one from them---it's in such demand that it will probably be stolen anyway. So he wound up replacing his PCX with a Honda Scoopy.

Now here's something I fail to understand. We Westerns typically pay $1000 for car insurance alone in our home countries, pay large amounts of money for fuel (we AMericans in particular have long distances to travel in our cars) and we see nothing wrong with paying over $20,000 for a car which will probably depreciate at least $3000 per year. Then we come into this forum and bitch about having to pay 70,000 baht (roughly $2000) for a Honda PCX or quibble about whether to pay 40,000 baht for a manual bare bones 125 c.c. bike or 52,000 baht for a Nouvo Elegance and then state our main buying criteria is over which bike gets better fuel economy when the average bike owner here might be only driving 7000 kilometers a year anyway. If I wanted a 250 Ninja R I'd pay the 150,000 baht and laugh all the way to the bank just thinking about the fact that I no longer own cars either here or in the U.S. If I wanted the 650 Kawasaki ERn, the new Honda CBR fuel injected bike.........same same. I'd still be driving for a fraction of the cost I was paying for transportation in the U.S.

Edited October 23, 2010 by jackcorbett

[apetley]

Wifeys Mio averages about 25 k/litre of fuel which aint good but it's restricted to rides around the village and too the nearby market.

My old Phantom used to average 35-40 kpl.

Next runaround will be one of the new fuel injected Honda Wave thingies. A friend reckons that they get nearly 60 kpl out of theirs.

Gee, that will be great. You'll save 10 Baht a week on wifey's trips around the village and to the nearby market. Imagine what you can do with that!. Why anyone worries about (or thinks about) the mileage of a motorbike or considers mileage in the consideration of what motorbike to buy is beyond me (unless, of course, you are a motorbike taki driver). The differences are for the average driver pennies (or satrang) over a month. What utter trivia!

Much less trivia than the banality of your reply.

[edwinchester]

Wifeys Mio averages about 25 k/litre of fuel which aint good but it's restricted to rides around the village and too the nearby market.

My old Phantom used to average 35-40 kpl.

Next runaround will be one of the new fuel injected Honda Wave thingies. A friend reckons that they get nearly 60 kpl out of theirs.

Gee, that will be great. You'll save 10 Baht a week on wifey's trips around the village and to the nearby market. Imagine what you can do with that!. Why anyone worries about (or thinks about) the mileage of a motorbike or considers mileage in the consideration of what motorbike to buy is beyond me (unless, of course, you are a motorbike taki driver). The differences are for the average driver pennies (or satrang) over a month. What utter trivia!

It may interest you to know that alot of Thai friends of mine regret their automatics as they are generally more expensive to buy and run than geared bikes. Cost means alot to them.

And at the risk of being labelled a greenie fuel consumption and hence emissions should be a consideration of any responsible citizen these days.

[CMX]

Hey Jack and everyone,

Can't but agree that it's cheaper here than in the U.S. or Europe for transportation and because weather changes much and small bikes are cheap. Money by comparison is small. Yep.

However, it happens to be the case that I do not earn nearly as much (I consider my retirement funds earnings, as I paid for them in a mix of blood, sweat, tears, laughter, boredom and pleasure, not in that order). Nor does the muscular baht help my budget. Moreover, I can't know and in any case do not want to know the financial circumstances of my on-line fellow posters. Facts are of interest to me and we can exchange them without opinion or judgment.

For example, I am disappointed that anyone from Germany or Norway would imagine that "I can get 300 kms on a tank of gas" is useful information, even knowing what the tank holds. What? I drove the bike until it was empty? I cannot figure out kilometers/liter over several weeks' time in less than a minute?

Anyway, I'm happy to accept 5000 baht from anybody who considers it trivial and promise to put it to good use. Cannot decide if each time I get a contribution I'll spend it on 125 good meals from open sellers or 20 meals at a French/Mediterranean. Also, I think we're putting OP on the track of purchase factors of use.

Edited October 23, 2010 by CMX

[tomartoh]

Thanks for some interesting comments. Indeed that which is relevant to some may be trivia to others. For sure.

When I posed the original questions about petrol consumption of automatics I did'nt have any particular reason other than interest, Although I am not a motocy taxi driver I will do some considerable mileage. I have had 6 bikes in Thailand [all second hand from dealers] but I have never had an auto. My previous experience is of stopping at filling stations and buying 100baht at a time as being the easiest option. So in general I dont really caretoo much how many bahts/ km/litre, I just fill up. but I am interested at this time.

I do look through tv ads but at the end of the day it is more convenient to buy from a local dealer, The paperwork is done and it has some sort of warranty and if nothing else he will pick up the bike if it breaks down in the locality. A local Suzuki dealer has a selection of new and second hand and I am in the process of deciding which to buy. As there are a number of Skydrives all under 10k km in good cosmetic condition, I just decided that they must be ex rental bikes. I will get the g/f to speak to them and find out as the staff are non english speakers as well as being bored and tired with sitting on their <deleted> all day and unable to take much interest in dealing with customers effectively. The g/f says that they are shy of farangs. ..... lol. Maybe that's irrelevant..

I could decide to buy new but they don't have the latest Hayate with fuel injection and I want something soon. But then if I am going to spend 52k bahts on a new scooter, then perhaps I would like more a new CBR150i for 76k........................... but thats another story

[Thailaw]

Trivia?

For those of us who don't use bikes very much, fuel cost considerations are not great. However, it all depends on not driving much.

I have a friend who drives a 125cc standard clutch-less Suzuki Shogun. I have an older Yamaha Hayate automatic 115cc. I get around 30km/l and he's been carefully measuring 55, quite high. Both of us have used our bikes for trips away from town so we might clock 10,000 kilometers each year. Also, I should purchase the expensive pure benzine (petrol) while he pays for gasahol. Out of curiosity one meal, we figured the differences. (Not important to this thread was the fact that his had been new, mine second-hand.)

The result, we figured out (and both of us are meticulous in measurements) that the annual difference is almost 5000 baht, not a great deal. Depending upon eating habits and budgets, however, that could translate into some considerable food.

But it might suggest that fuel costs cannot represent an argument against second-hand bikes, as OP proposes.

Your post proves my point -- that fuel cost is not (should not be) a factor in the decision on what motorbike to buy (whether new or used), because the differences are "trivial" unless, as I said, you are a very heavy user, such as a motorbire taxi driver -- not many of those here, I expect. I believe that for most motorbike owners 10,000 km/year is very significant travel/use, and even with that usage, the "the annual difference is almost 5000 baht, not a great deal." By your "meticulous measurements", the extreme case of almost double the mileage between two motorbikes, the difference in fuel consumption amounts to 50 satang per km. I won't waste any time planning how I will spend the money I save driving my new FI PCX. Yes, trivial.

[CMX]

Thailaw,

Absolutely correct regarding trivia. Yours is per km, while mine - what with the Thai baht - is figured by the year. Facts is facts. In this case, my quibble doesn't help OP and your using quotes around "meticulous measurements" point, I agree, to a hobby that is often not worth pursuing. I'm trying to inspect habits these days, and I find that some are hard to extinguish. I wish you would take the point, however, that some people are not as well off as are you. (I am too modest to advertise myself as being in this category, as I avoid attention.)

OP

I did post elsewhere that the "new" F1 Hayate, the 2010, can't be ordered any more in my town either. Starting in Jan., my dealer here says, I can order the '11 model, for delivery within one month. He gives the likely price as being as same as in 2010, 50,000K, with green book, registration (tax) and basic ins. 1,000 baht off for cash instead of credit card or financing (but that of course is an insignificantly trivial amount). Useless to you doubtless is the fact that their alloy wheels (+2K) only come with inner tubed tires. Takes probably an additional 2K for tubeless, probably IRC's.

Regarding previous use, any bike sold by a dealer is as safe regarding wear and tear as purchasing from a stranger. My Yamaha smaller bike dealer here has put stickers over the odometer, and sales folks make no claims for wear, only condition as they see it and warranty. I think this enormously honest, given the local market, though their offerings are about +5,000.

'Course, I realize that you know this, and stick to my guesstimate of around 20% as an average loss with exceptions all over the place. Apples to apples hard to find except perhaps Honda Wave fi and their Wave Fi AT. And Honda Wave Fi AT drivers don't seem to post much, probably having fun driving with the best mileage of all among automatics.

Edited October 23, 2010 by CMX

[Thailaw]

It sounds like you are well on your way to making an intelligent choice on what motorbike to buy and from what dealer, based on sound logic and thought, and with the help of truly insightful posts in this thread.

To quote you:

You "general(ly) dont really care too much how many bahts/ km/litre, [you] just fill up. but I am interested at this time." Not sure what that means or how it factors into your decision, but ok, we'll leave it there. Maybe you should listen to CMX and focus on fuel economy as one of your main criteria in the purchase decision.

And you intend to buy a Suzuki "from a local dealer", because it is more convenient, and where "the staff are non english speakers as well as being bored and tired with sitting on their <deleted> all day and unable to take much interest in dealing with customers effectively." Really good choice, and one that will ensure that you have a problem free experience in the future -- not!.

But the selected dealer "don't have the latest Hayate with fuel injection and I want something soon" (better to buy crap you don't want than to look around for a bike more to your liking (mabe there is a Honda dealer not too far away) or wait until something more suitable is available, but, of course, buy second hand so that the price of the crap will be less).

Seriously, I wish you good luck on this -- I think you will need it.

[Thailaw]

"Absolutely correct regarding trivia. Yours is per km, while mine - what with the Thai baht - is figured by the year. Facts is facts. In this case, my quibble doesn't help OP and your using quotes around "meticulous measurements" point, I agree, to a hobby that is often not worth pursuing. I'm trying to inspect habits these days, and I find that some are hard to extinguish. I wish you would take the point, however, that some people are not as well off as are you. (I am too modest to advertise myself as being in this category, as I avoid attention.) "

That is fine, no argument. But, then compare other spending on a total year basis so that the comparision is apples-to-apples. I choose motorbikes (and cars, or anyhthing else I buy) on overall appeal and the enjoyment I will get from using/having it. THEN, I look for the best deal I can get on what I have decided I want. You will choose, I assume, a motorbike that will give you great fuel economy. I will choose a motorbike that I like and will enjoy driving. I chose a PCX because I liked its style and feel, and I never inquired (or cared) about its fuel econoimy. Worst case, at the end of the year, you will have B5,000 in the bank more than me, but I will have had more fun. I think that for B5,000 per year I made the far better choice. (Frankly, for the average user, I think that B5,000 is a gross overestimate of the added cost, but I won't debate that). My point was and is, choose a motorbike based on style, handling, appeal, enjoyment (however you measure that) and, unless you are a very heavy user, don't put much/any emphasis on fuel economy. Looking around at farang on motorbikes, 99% of whom are on automatics, the world agrees with me. I never enquired about the gas mileage of my PCX or other motorbikes I have, and I really don't care. They all provide me with good fun. And when I drive any of them I save money over driving my car -- probably more than B20,000 per year (since I spend B1,000 per week on gas fore the car). If you want to save money, that's great, we all love to save money, the fuel economy of a motorbike is not the best (or even a good) way to look for money savings. Best, just sit home, don't drive anything that uses fuel and walk or drive a bicycle when you want to go out -- imagine what you will save then and how many meals you can buy with what you have saved (what rubbish)!. Automatics provide fun and convenience over manual bikes, especially in town traffic, and it is a small price to pay for the added convenience. Your view is so myopic, really. Yes, trivial (even on an annual basis in the extreme). Cheers,

[CMX]

"Your view is so myopic, really. Yes, trivial (even on an annual basis in the extreme)." ~ Thailaw

Well, thanks. I'll work on it, try to develop points of view that are both broad and clear.

Allow me to start by agreeing that automatics are much safer for me to drive in heavier traffic, and I've lots of experience on two wheelers from mopeds to scooters to motorbikes to motorcycles. And unlike some, I like the looks of the PCX too, arguably the best looking bike on the road among the 135cc and down set.

(Apologies to OP for my going away from the topic of fuel consumption for an automatic scooter a little here.)