Look Kreungs

[afarang]

Your a racist and fasict Heng. All you do is look down and talk down to people and hide behind the 'oh, I have black, falang, Russian, or whatever friends.' You're like a Thai veresion of a fake oh I'm all about the people and not racist American replublican.

You do have a way of making people who argue with you sound like idiots though. Gotta give you that.

You should cut out your moronic smiley thing too. It's infantile. Youd be nothing without your inheritance, everyone around here knows it, your neighbors know it.

And that's not just because of that loan thing from early this year. Yeah, I know who you are and you know me. I live a block away from you on the hill. You needlessly embarrassed me in front of my family in public. Where were your polite Thai face manners then hum? Hypocrit!

that's a load off. @feeling better already@

If you have something you want to get off your chest, feel free to stroll on over.

And I told you that business should be discussed in the office, it was your (IMO silly) idea to discuss it at a restaurant with your wife and kids in tow. Would you invite your loan officer at a bank to an expensive dinner and expect it to get you better results?

Will leave it at that.

:)

The "Elite" certainly do .The peasants Don't. They don't do "expensive dinners"

[Heng]

Your a racist and fasict Heng. All you do is look down and talk down to people and hide behind the 'oh, I have black, falang, Russian, or whatever friends.' You're like a Thai veresion of a fake oh I'm all about the people and not racist American replublican.

You do have a way of making people who argue with you sound like idiots though. Gotta give you that.

You should cut out your moronic smiley thing too. It's infantile. Youd be nothing without your inheritance, everyone around here knows it, your neighbors know it.

And that's not just because of that loan thing from early this year. Yeah, I know who you are and you know me. I live a block away from you on the hill. You needlessly embarrassed me in front of my family in public. Where were your polite Thai face manners then hum? Hypocrit!

that's a load off. @feeling better already@

If you have something you want to get off your chest, feel free to stroll on over.

And I told you that business should be discussed in the office, it was your (IMO silly) idea to discuss it at a restaurant with your wife and kids in tow. Would you invite your loan officer at a bank to an expensive dinner and expect it to get you better results?

Will leave it at that.

:)

The "Elite" certainly do .The peasants Don't. They don't do "expensive dinners"

Not the way this clown was trying to do it... "so what do you think? what do you think? can you help me out?" I've heard every single hard luck story there is, and a meal isn't going to make any particular story easier to digest, it doesn't matter how much booze is consumed and how sad the kids look (which, I suppose in this case does support your non broken home data... I would assume they are still together, not sure if there will be enough to send junior and his sister to college or not though).

But I see you're an expert on yet another issue.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Heng

[dave_boo]

Am I the only parent of a lk kid here who doesn't seem to expect my son to become a captain of industry or leader of government?

I'll be happy & consider my job done well if he grows up well rounded, decently educated to a level he decides beyond high school graduation, happy, hopefully in a job/career he enjoys regardless of what that might be and one day find a nice woman to marry & give me grandbabies to dote on & look after me in my old age.

All this talk & posturing over investments, education, making a mark, taking control blah blah blah, gives me a headache & makes me feel sorry for some posters kids, they have no idea how much pressure & expectation hovers over their young heads, god forbid the can't or don't want to aspire to such lofty elevations :ermm:

I want my daughter to be articulate, intelligent, and content.....if that means that she ends up having to ask "Would you care for the large size?" or she ends up asking "How do we improve our quarterly earnings", than good for her.

I think that those posters who have grandiose ideas concerning their children are living vicariously through them. And since they are, any preceived failure of the children is a failure of the poster. I hate to break it to people, but children are like every other group of people; some winners and a whole bunch of losers (in the grand scheme of things; I'm sure the fine posters' children are in the first group ).

I'd like to touch on the other sub-thread running. Way out in the sticks in western NakWan I live 2 km outside a village. A pretty standard moobaan for Thailand, and yet there are at least three Foreign/Thai marriages. The first one is mine; we have a daugther that I get to see as often as work allows me to return. As dysfunctional as any other family, I don't see my wife's and my relationship breaking up. Second mixed family, heading into town, also has a daughter a year or so older than mine. The father is absent most of the time and is apparently heavily into drugs. The seem to have not that many possesions, i.e. a motorbike and tin house. And yet the lady stays with him. The final couple is, AFAIK, without a kid, but has built a karaoke/bar which is where when the husband is not around the wife cheats on him.

So out of 3 relationships, it seems two are definitely doomed (because I'd tell the guy who's wife is cheating on him!); not that much different than the West I suppose...

[samran]

Your a racist and fasict Heng.   All you do is look down and talk down to people and hide behind the 'oh, I have black, falang, Russian, or whatever friends.'   You're like a Thai veresion of a fake oh I'm all about the people and not racist American replublican.      

You do have a way of making people who argue with you sound like idiots though.   Gotta give you that.   

You should cut out your moronic smiley thing too.   It's infantile.    Youd be nothing without your inheritance, everyone around here knows it, your neighbors know it.    

And that's not just because of that loan thing from early this year.    Yeah, I know who you are and you know me.   I live a block away from you on the hill.   You needlessly embarrassed me in front of my family in public.   Where were your polite Thai face manners then hum?   Hypocrit!

that's a load off.   @feeling better already@

If you have something you want to get off your chest, feel free to stroll on over.

And I told you that business should be discussed in the office, it was your (IMO silly) idea to discuss it at a restaurant with your wife and kids in tow. Would you invite your loan officer at a bank to an expensive dinner and expect it to get you better results?

Will leave it at that.

:)

You can't win can you Heng? Tell a man to his face the truth of the matter, and you get heat. Go all Thai on him telling him yes, yes, yes (when you really mean no, no, no) and you'll be accused of being two faced.

Anyway, enough said.

How are your plans for world domination going?

[saraburioz]

That is not a reputable source. They have half of the top 10 in the UK, that should tell you enough about what a garbage list that is...

Lookup Chula in any reputable publication and you will see them consistently in the top 100.

Most of the Thais I know with money send their kids to England. My wife studied at high school and university there. England is first choice. I was surprised to see my uni at only 61st.

Seems that the only ones wanting an American uni are ..erm American.

If they send them abroad they go UK or USA - but lots of them also opt for Chula or Thammasat.

They generally don't opt for Chula or Thammasat if money is no option.

Everyone knows that rich Thais go to England, less well-off go to USA, even poorer go to Oz.

If the kids did something very bad they are sent to New Zealand as a punishment.

[Heng]

Your a racist and fasict Heng.   All you do is look down and talk down to people and hide behind the 'oh, I have black, falang, Russian, or whatever friends.'   You're like a Thai veresion of a fake oh I'm all about the people and not racist American replublican.      

You do have a way of making people who argue with you sound like idiots though.   Gotta give you that.   

You should cut out your moronic smiley thing too.   It's infantile.    Youd be nothing without your inheritance, everyone around here knows it, your neighbors know it.    

And that's not just because of that loan thing from early this year.    Yeah, I know who you are and you know me.   I live a block away from you on the hill.   You needlessly embarrassed me in front of my family in public.   Where were your polite Thai face manners then hum?   Hypocrit!

that's a load off.   @feeling better already@

If you have something you want to get off your chest, feel free to stroll on over.

And I told you that business should be discussed in the office, it was your (IMO silly) idea to discuss it at a restaurant with your wife and kids in tow. Would you invite your loan officer at a bank to an expensive dinner and expect it to get you better results?

Will leave it at that.

:)

You can't win can you Heng? Tell a man to his face the truth of the matter, and you get heat. Go all Thai on him telling him yes, yes, yes (when you really mean no, no, no) and you'll be accused of being two faced.

Anyway, enough said.

How are your plans for world domination going?

I'm used to it. Pretty rare for anything to surprise me anymore. Last time I mention my TV user name to anyone that's for sure.

Just a few more ballistas and trebuchets and I'll be unstoppable. Seriously though, I've been totally content for several years now... it's all gravy now, no need to over extend (or even extend).

[Heng]

That is not a reputable source. They have half of the top 10 in the UK, that should tell you enough about what a garbage list that is...

Lookup Chula in any reputable publication and you will see them consistently in the top 100.

Most of the Thais I know with money send their kids to England. My wife studied at high school and university there. England is first choice. I was surprised to see my uni at only 61st.

Seems that the only ones wanting an American uni are ..erm American.

If they send them abroad they go UK or USA - but lots of them also opt for Chula or Thammasat.

They generally don't opt for Chula or Thammasat if money is no option.

Everyone knows that rich Thais go to England, less well-off go to USA, even poorer go to Oz.

If the kids did something very bad they are sent to New Zealand as a punishment.

Kind of a broad brush, like tourists go to Patpong, veteran expats go to Nana, and everyone who has acquired at least one permanent STD goes to Cowboy.

A popular 'plan' is to have your kids prove themselves locally first in Chula, TU, KU, etc. and THEN let them get their masters and/or add-on degrees abroad when they are a little more mature. It's not all about the money since for some groups, it's not terribly hard to come by (and I don't mean that in a condescending way... but realistically after a certain point, particularly with the local legal structure, it pretty much builds on itself).

[samran]

Kind of a broad brush, like tourists go to Patpong, veteran expats go to Nana, and everyone who has acquired at least one permanent STD goes to Cowboy.

A popular 'plan' is to have your kids prove themselves locally first in Chula, TU, KU, etc. and THEN let them get their masters and/or add-on degrees abroad when they are a little more mature. It's not all about the money since for some groups, it's not terribly hard to come by (and I don't mean that in a condescending way... but realistically after a certain point, particularly with the local legal structure, it pretty much builds on itself).

A few families - only a few, will ship off their kids at 8 years old to boarding school either in the UK, or in more than a few cases, Australia - particularly Geelong Grammar. Usually the family has a tradition of doing this.

If they don't do it then, my observation is that they tend to do what Heng says - go to Chula or Thammasat, then go do a masters of MBA overseas, perhaps a scholarship or two. Most come back with fluent english and a pretty much top flight skills - great people to work with. V.common in legal and finance circles to see this method of education.

In government, there is a similar trend, though the range of Thai based scholarships from govt means that many go OS to the usual places + Japan, Korea, and come back to work for govt, re-paying the loan (1 year of scholarship = 2 years of govt service when you get back).

[Tinkelbell]

Quote from 'saraburioz'..........

" They generally don't opt for Chula or Thammasat if money is no option....."

...................................................................................................................

Really ?

It's amazing to see someone, a Westerner who happens to married a Thai whose family had decided to send her to educate in England at the tender age, now coming to this forum claiming to be expert on this subject.

Likes 'Heng' said...." kind of broad brush......"

I absolutely agree with 'Heng'.

There are many options for Thais ( in my case, dozens of my classmates in Khema, all girl boarding school) opt for Thai University first. What Heng said is true in this part.

But mine was that, in those days if you wanted to be in a ruling class, a politician or a high rank government officer, you have to go to Thamasart, Chula, Kasetsart etc. Go and ask any educated ederly Thais , they would say the same......." If you want to be ' Jao Muang ( The governer), Thamasart was the place to be."

I, myself was working in the police departmentt after graduate from TU, before heading to further my study in the US.

To be in Thai uni, it gives you a large scale of social networks, your TU, CU, KU. .....'s classmates all going to be working in higher ranks in gov't agencies, or offices of the companies or corporations.

At one point my TU classmates were either The Governers or Nai Umpher in 58 provinces ( looking at the 25th school reunion yearbook). There were 4 holding gov't Ministers ( rat ta mon tri ), some doing very well in banking, aviation, industry, international companies etc...

Walk - in to any place in BKK, I never really felt alone, there always someone you know or someone you can relate to.

My two cents from my very own experience.

[wintermute]

A popular 'plan' is to have your kids prove themselves locally first in Chula, TU, KU, etc. and THEN let them get their masters and/or add-on degrees abroad when they are a little more mature. It's not all about the money since for some groups, it's not terribly hard to come by (and I don't mean that in a condescending way... but realistically after a certain point, particularly with the local legal structure, it pretty much builds on itself).

A lot of middle class Thais I know did precisely this. Quite a few choose to stay in the U.S. or the U.K. to get some work experience but most end up returning to Thailand. It's a pretty good route to go because if you send the kids off when they are 18 you know they probably aren't going to do jack except party and spend their parents money.

[thaifkrlim]

why many thai farang luk kruengs have thai surnames instead of farang surnames, father being a foreigner , e.g Palmy , Chuvit Kamolvisit, Ann Thonprasom, Sunny Suwanmethanon ..etc

Does this mean that their fathers deserted them while they were unborn, leaving no choice for the mother to adopt their own thai surnames?

Palmy and Ann yes (cute talented women, but you can clearly see the sadness that they pull from to promote their trade... especially with Ann, she can cry on a dime). No idea who Sunny is. Chuwit's household is a "normal" local household where the Chinese father chose to adopt a local surname in the ol' Thai Chinese modus operandi (along the same lines as the founders of the major Thai banks, steel mills, rice mills, etc.).

Palmy's father really left her when she was unborn? wiki said chuvit's father is a hongkong tourist

[Heng]

why many thai farang luk kruengs have thai surnames instead of farang surnames, father being a foreigner , e.g Palmy , Chuvit Kamolvisit, Ann Thonprasom, Sunny Suwanmethanon ..etc

Does this mean that their fathers deserted them while they were unborn, leaving no choice for the mother to adopt their own thai surnames?

Palmy and Ann yes (cute talented women, but you can clearly see the sadness that they pull from to promote their trade... especially with Ann, she can cry on a dime). No idea who Sunny is. Chuwit's household is a "normal" local household where the Chinese father chose to adopt a local surname in the ol' Thai Chinese modus operandi (along the same lines as the founders of the major Thai banks, steel mills, rice mills, etc.).

Palmy's father really left her when she was unborn? wiki said chuvit's father is a hongkong tourist

You'd have to ask someone who follows local 'celebrities,' I only know from a broad view of the situation. As for Chuwit,... yeah his dad was Hong Kong Chinese but I don't think he would qualify as a tourist since he and his wife ran a textiles company importing clothing (Hara jeans was one of their brands) here in Thailand for quite some time.

[saraburioz]

What about Tata Young - I met her father once in a beer bar in Nana Plaza.

[GooEng]

I'm surprised at the optimism of the thread. I agree that the growing number of half Thai/half Western children is a very significant development with the potential to bring about real change in Thai society, but I'd say there are also very significant obstacles and that many individuals are going to have bad experiences. Thailand is a deeply hierarchical society, in which social contacts often count for more than merit. Unfortunately, irrespective of our income or professional standing, westerners don't rank very highly in that hierarchy as far as upper-class Thais are concerned, and aren't as well connected. My perception, which may be quite wrong, is that while luuk kreung do well in the entertainment industry, they hit a 'glass ceiling' in most other fields. Western parents struggle to work the system to gain an advantage for their offspring. I'm not talking about grades in a middle-ranking secondary school, but something like a good degree from Chula or a decent professional career track. I'd love to be wrong, but I have decided, albeit reluctantly, that my son is better off in school in the UK.

yeah, as a dad of two luk-kreung lads i have to say i agree.

as i have mentioned in another post, when weighing up the options and pros and cons of bringing my kids up in thailand or back in the uk, i always end up siding towards the uk, for the reason you have mentioned above amongst others

like you citizen33 i'd like to be wrong and i tend this way reluctantly, because i would love to be able to justify to myself staying in thailand, but now that the kids' futures are what's being debated, i can't.

[Boo]

Our son is 3 & we've lived in Uk for most of his life, last year we spent 6 months in TH as a reccie with the plan to move to Thailand in time for him to start 1st year of Juniors at 4/12-5yrs old.

It will also give me an opportunity to continue my education. Our idea is to let our son spend between age 5 to 11 in Thailand at a bilingual school in Khon Kaen to pick up the language & his fathers culture but with a UK education base then when he is ready for secondary school, move back to UK until he decides at 16 whether to continue his education in UK or go into work.

For us, at this stage, it is the best option we have come up with. Mr boo is a British citizen now & we can live in either country quite well & happily. It isn't a case of one country better than the other, only what they can offer us as a family at that moment in time.

Obviously we will see what happens once baby boo is closer to the age we plan to move back to UK, he might want to stay in Thailand, we might be in a better position financially to give him a comparative education in Thailand, we don't know, everything is fluid but at this stage but the plan we have mapped out is the best option to give our son the best of both worlds & the chance of a decent education so far. What he chooses to do with that education at the end of it all is, of course, up to him.

As for being held back/discriminated against, well, that's the case for most people who are without connection or money (i.e most of the population of the world). He will have to deal with that as & when it comes up, I just hope we as parents will have provided him with a good foundation & confidence in himself to overcome them or at least find a way around them.

[Petesear]

What about Tata Young - I met her father once in a beer bar in Nana Plaza.

Who? Paul?

Surely you know better than to believe the tales of a guy you meet in a beer bar in Nana!?

[Tinkelbell]

What about Tata Young - I met her father once in a beer bar in Nana Plaza.

Who? Paul?

Surely you know better than to believe the tales of a guy you meet in a beer bar in Nana!?

Love your answer...........quote of the week.

Have a good laugh at some bloke making a fool of himself.

[maccaroni man]

imo i think the changes will be seen in more day to day activities, such as driving on the correct side of the road, not littering, tradesmen being held accountable, dual pricing, and local govt. corruption being reduced.

[bootly66]

Obviously people with half Isaan children are going to get offended or think that their children will be the exception - the fact remains though that the Thai-Establishment will view them as second class citizens.

I have a friend at Sasin (best business school in Thailand, at Chula) who said that of the 100 students in his MBA class, not a single one of them came from Isaan. All Thai-Chinese.

Our Western values (kid can come from nothing and be president) do not apply in Thailand, no matter how much we may want them to.

God, I hate those Thai/Chinese.

Do you actually think that the Isarn rice grower would prefer an American culture?

Reminds me of this story:-

An American businessman was at a pier in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow-fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied only a little while.

The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The American then asked the Mexican how he spent the rest of his time.

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life, senor."

The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and, with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution.

"You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But senor, how long will this all take?"

The American replied, "15-20 years."

"But what then, senor?" asked the Mexican.

The American laughed, and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right, you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public. You'll become very rich, you would make millions!"

"Millions, senor?" replied the Mexican. "Then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

What about the part in the story where the Mexican fisherman gets a relatively easy to treat disease but only has 500 pesos in the bank (the sock drawer on his boat)? Non-issue with some decent life savings and multiple income streams.

Or some oil tanker dumps XX thousand gallons of oil into his/her bread basket? Not a big deal if you owned a fleet of vessels that you could send to deeper waters.

Or when his/her kid wants to go to a school that doesn't teach fishing theory? Oh, but where would we be without made up/internet email forward style 'fisherman meets businessman' stories without a new generation of fisherman?

They say if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but if you teach a man to fish.... then he's gotta get a fishing license, but he doesn't have any money. So he's got to get a job and get into the social security system and pay taxes, and now you're gonna audit the poor cocksucker, cuz' he's not really good with math. So he'll pull the IRS van up to your house, and he'll take all your shit. He'll take your black velvet Elvis and your Batman toothbrush, and your penis pump, and that all goes up for auction with the burden of proof on you because you forgot to carry the one, cuz' you were just worried about eating a fuc_king fish, and you couldn't even cook the fish cuz' you needed a permit for an open flame. Then the health department is going to start asking you a lot of questions about where are you going to dump the scales and the guts. 'This is not a sanitary environment',

Doug Stanhope

Off topic but amusing

or... you could come and live in Thailand..................

[SantiSuk]

I'm surprised at the optimism of the thread. I agree that the growing number of half Thai/half Western children is a very significant development with the potential to bring about real change in Thai society, but I'd say there are also very significant obstacles and that many individuals are going to have bad experiences. Thailand is a deeply hierarchical society, in which social contacts often count for more than merit. Unfortunately, irrespective of our income or professional standing, westerners don't rank very highly in that hierarchy as far as upper-class Thais are concerned, and aren't as well connected. My perception, which may be quite wrong, is that while luuk kreung do well in the entertainment industry, they hit a 'glass ceiling' in most other fields. Western parents struggle to work the system to gain an advantage for their offspring. I'm not talking about grades in a middle-ranking secondary school, but something like a good degree from Chula or a decent professional career track. I'd love to be wrong, but I have decided, albeit reluctantly, that my son is better off in school in the UK.

The situation you describe is pretty much like it was for my father's generation in the UK of the 1940s and 1950s. By the time it came for me to get a job and start pushing to progress (1970s) it had changed quite remarkably. I and many like me who had not gone to public school, did not have families with connections and who were the first in their families to go to (ordinary) universities - or even cut out of schooling at 18 and who had not cultivated networks of contacts at privileged educational establishments, found themselves able to rise to significant positions in industry and the professions that had previously been reserved for the upper middle classes. The accounting/consulting firm I joined as a new recruit in 1974 had owners (partners who were drawn entirely form public schools or had independent wealth. By the time I made partner in 1986 most of us were not of this strata.

I think you underestimate the power and rapidity of change in society Citizen. I predict that Thailand will be unrecognizable in 20 years time in the areas that this thread is discussing. Just like democracy always seems to triumph in the end, so will meritocracy. Any other solutions are sub-optimal to the advancement of society as a whole.

Yeah sorry the last bit was a bit pompous.

[chooch7]

What about Tata Young - I met her father once in a beer bar in Nana Plaza.

Who? Paul?

Surely you know better than to believe the tales of a guy you meet in a beer bar in Nana!?

hey..........i met tata young in nana plaza..........must run in the familee