Thai army chief: Political gatherings banned during UN chief's visit

[bulmercke]

This thread you'll find is all about the UN chief's visit here and the ban on political gatherings during that time. The fact that reporters will have their questions vetted in advance is obviously an attempt to shield him from any sensitive and embarrassing questions which would no doubt come his way concerning the government's human rights record and - more specifically its treatment of Red-Shirt protesters earlier this year.

I don't think that's confusing the issue - is it?

[rubl]

Gen Prayuth said the army had strictly followed the law.

<<< the most important point to consider. the investgation is OVER . the army did the killing but were in the rightnow live with it!!!

yechhh

Xxxx Xxx!!!

The army did some of the killing. Under command of the government, the police couldn't handle the situation. The police already had major problems with more 'peaceful' yellow shirts two / three years before, how come they could with the UDD. The army was shot at, had a colonel grenaded, was continuously taunted, what do you expect. The government should take responsability, but more in the form of finding a way how this could have been prevented. With all the violence in April - May you will not see strong condemnations by any other government,

[Scott]

Let's not stray too far from the topic and let's keep the comments to the content of the posts rather than the personality of the poster.

[rubl]

This thread you'll find is all about the UN chief's visit here and the ban on political gatherings during that time. The fact that reporters will have their questions vetted in advance is obviously an attempt to shield him from any sensitive and embarrassing questions which would no doubt come his way concerning the government's human rights record and - more specifically its treatment of Red-Shirt protesters earlier this year.

I don't think that's confusing the issue - is it?

Beside the OP. The UDD can present their letter and clips and whatever.

The fact that in a press session questions are screened first is not real news. It's done in many countries, in part to avoid non-related questions. Presidents like to avoid awkward questions, PM's don't like them either. To let the press ask questions which could embarrass both guest and host is not done. Even if a journalist would be allowed to ask provocatively 'Mr. Ban, when will you condemn the Thai government for slaughtering it's own people', do you really think you get more than 'too strong description', 'internal matter', 'reconciliation', 'bla bla and bla'. The government would be the laughing stock of the world if that happened. All other countries would wonder 'how could they let such a question pass?'

OP: no political rallies, UDD may present their info to Mr. Ban.

Edited October 25, 2010 by rubl

[bulmercke]

Actually the more I think about this impending visit the more I'm inclined to think that it would be better if he stayed at home and didn't come at all. In short - this country doesn't appear to be democratically advanced enough or mature enough to have someone of the UN chief's stature as an official visitor.

He's going to be fed a lot of BS by the government about the political situation and the Red-Shirts - and will be answering mickey-mouse questions - pre-screened by the government in advance - designed to omit any reference to those "nasty Red-Shirts'.

Get Paris Hilton here instead. Japan's unwelcome visitor would be at home here.

"Human Rights Violation?" "What's that?"

[rubl]

Actually the more I think about this impending visit the more I'm inclined to think that it would be better if he stayed at home and didn't come at all. In short - this country doesn't appear to be democratically advanced enough or mature enough to have someone of the UN chief's stature as an official visitor.

He's going to be fed a lot of BS by the government about the political situation and the Red-Shirts - and will be answering mickey-mouse questions - pre-screened by the government in advance - designed to omit any reference to those "nasty Red-Shirts'.

Get Paris Hilton here instead. Japan's unwelcome visitor would be at home here.

"Human Rights Violation?" "What's that?"

As a moderator just suggested we stick to the OP, I will refrain from commenting

[animatic]

Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha's announcement is like a red rag to a bull. The Red-Shirts might as well go the full hog (no pun intended) and throw caution to the wind. If you're going to protest - there's no point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt.

Thousands of Reds - motorcycles - pick-ups - private cars -

charging around Bangkok for the entire duration of Mr. Ban's stay

might just do the job.

Of showing them to be mad as hatters.

If they want world wide respect for their positions,

then they should act like respectable people do.

If they can't then that will tell the tale.

Edited October 25, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

begin removed ...

The Thai government is making a fool of itself when it announces that only prescreened questions will be accepted. That is something done by totalitarian countries which limit freedom of speech and deny basic human rights. This announcement does more damage to Mr. Abhisit than any red rally could achieve. It's a sad admission of fear.

Either you just made up the 'prescreened', or you can point out to me where you found it. I can only find

Regarding the plan of the Red Shirt to present a complaint letter to Mr Ban on the death of the red-clad demonstrators during the army operations in May, Gen Prayuth said they should consider whether it is appropriate to hand in such letter as this is internal affairs and the army had strictly followed the law.

Without the 'prescreened' your comment doesn't make sense of course

Makes me quickly think of Thaksin and his NO sign,

or Samak's blustering reporters into silence.

We don't need to pre-screen we will just shout them down and move on.

[hammered]

The UN sec-gen and other UN reps visit loads of undemocratic countries. The UN has many undemocratic members. Pre-screened questions happen in most democracies more often than people would care to think including at presidential debates, news conferences and interviews - both Palin and Obama have done it recently.

[bulmercke]

Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha's announcement is like a red rag to a bull. The Red-Shirts might as well go the full hog (no pun intended) and throw caution to the wind. If you're going to protest - there's no point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt.

Thousands of Reds - motorcycles - pick-ups - private cars -

charging around Bangkok for the entire duration of Mr. Ban's stay

might just do the job.

Of showing them to be mad as hatters.

If they want world wide respect for their positions,

then they should act like respectable people do.

If they can't then that will tell the tale.

That in-bedded quote of mine is a bit tongue in cheek - but not that much. Prayuth's announcement is nothing short of intimidation. Yes - there remains a state of emergency decree in Bangkok - but this more about him asserting his authority - throwing his weight about - and demonstrating to the world that he is the new boss and he's the one who runs the show - whether the Red-Shirts like it or not.

[hammered]

Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha's announcement is like a red rag to a bull. The Red-Shirts might as well go the full hog (no pun intended) and throw caution to the wind. If you're going to protest - there's no point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt.

Thousands of Reds - motorcycles - pick-ups - private cars -

charging around Bangkok for the entire duration of Mr. Ban's stay

might just do the job.

Of showing them to be mad as hatters.

If they want world wide respect for their positions,

then they should act like respectable people do.

If they can't then that will tell the tale.

That in-bedded quote of mine is a bit tongue in cheek - but not that much. Prayuth's announcement is nothing short of intimidation. Yes - there remains a state of emergency decree in Bangkok - but this more about him asserting his authority - throwing his weight about - and demonstrating to the world that he is the new boss and he's the one who runs the show - whether the Red-Shirts like it or not.

You need to put it into context of macho Thai provincial politics. The UDD cannot appear weak in this context and they usually revel in being macho. This is a direct taunt. How will they react?

[SergeiY]

The UN sec-gen and other UN reps visit loads of undemocratic countries. The UN has many undemocratic members. Pre-screened questions happen in most democracies more often than people would care to think including at presidential debates, news conferences and interviews - both Palin and Obama have done it recently.

Yes, in most democracies and when asked PalminObama - the Army chief will tell you what you have to do and what not and that is inappropriate to protest against human rights violation when the UN boss is in town.

[hammered]

The UN sec-gen and other UN reps visit loads of undemocratic countries. The UN has many undemocratic members. Pre-screened questions happen in most democracies more often than people would care to think including at presidential debates, news conferences and interviews - both Palin and Obama have done it recently.

Yes, in most democracies and when asked PalminObama - the Army chief will tell you what you have to do and what not and that is inappropriate to protest against human rights violation when the UN boss is in town.

What does that have to do with what I posted? I stated 3 facts related to the OP and get an answer that is nothing to do with any of them

[bulmercke]

Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha's announcement is like a red rag to a bull. The Red-Shirts might as well go the full hog (no pun intended) and throw caution to the wind. If you're going to protest - there's no point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt.

Thousands of Reds - motorcycles - pick-ups - private cars -

charging around Bangkok for the entire duration of Mr. Ban's stay

might just do the job.

Of showing them to be mad as hatters.

If they want world wide respect for their positions,

then they should act like respectable people do.

If they can't then that will tell the tale.

That in-bedded quote of mine is a bit tongue in cheek - but not that much. Prayuth's announcement is nothing short of intimidation. Yes - there remains a state of emergency decree in Bangkok - but this more about him asserting his authority - throwing his weight about - and demonstrating to the world that he is the new boss and he's the one who runs the show - whether the Red-Shirts like it or not.

You need to put it into context of macho Thai provincial politics. The UDD cannot appear weak in this context and they usually revel in being macho. This is a direct taunt. How will they react?

There is an increasing groundswell among the Red-Shirts. And it's gathering pace at a faster rate than I anticipated - though you won't read anything about this in the English language dailies here.

Surprise was one of their chief cards before - so expect a few surprises during the visit.

[hammered]

There is an increasing groundswell among the Red-Shirts. And it's gathering pace at a faster rate than I anticipated - though you won't read anything about this in the English language dailies here.

Surprise was one of their chief cards before - so expect a few surprises during the visit.

We will see but the floods impact in two ways: one obvious and practical but the other that creating "problems" while the army who are the main relief unit and government are trying to help flood victims could backfire like the Chula hospital event or potentially in an even worse way

[chantorn]

"but representatives can instead present a letter to the UN chief." TAN

However most red-shirt do not know how to read and write, hence they join the red-shirt.

[rubl]

That in-bedded quote of mine is a bit tongue in cheek - but not that much. Prayuth's announcement is nothing short of intimidation. Yes - there remains a state of emergency decree in Bangkok - but this more about him asserting his authority - throwing his weight about - and demonstrating to the world that he is the new boss and he's the one who runs the show - whether the Red-Shirts like it or not.

You need to put it into context of macho Thai provincial politics. The UDD cannot appear weak in this context and they usually revel in being macho. This is a direct taunt. How will they react?

There is an increasing groundswell among the Red-Shirts. And it's gathering pace at a faster rate than I anticipated - though you won't read anything about this in the English language dailies here.

Surprise was one of their chief cards before - so expect a few surprises during the visit.

A peaceful offering of information gathered and handed to Mr. Ban by k. Jatuporn and/or some others would be a pleasant surprise. Red-shirts running amok, throwing bags of manure or blood, or a storming of the UN representative office in Bangkok would be an unpleasant surprise. All speculation, nothing more, nothing less. Hope for the best for Thailand.

Edited October 25, 2010 by rubl

[chantorn]

Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha's announcement is like a red rag to a bull. The Red-Shirts might as well go the full hog (no pun intended) and throw caution to the wind. If you're going to protest - there's no point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt.

Thousands of Reds - motorcycles - pick-ups - private cars - charging around Bangkok for the entire duration of Mr. Ban's stay might just do the job.

I beg to differ. Mr. Baan has will learn nothing by there silly antics. He is no fool. He already knows they are nothing but a bunch of fools for hire working for a man who wants to commit more rape on Thailand.

RECENT QUOTE(Nick Nostitz - New Mandela):"In a few days there will be a press briefing by the Prime Minister and Ban Ki-moon. Quite disturbing for me, and rather unusual practice – journalists invited to the briefing will have to submit their questions in advance."

In short - the government will reduce his visit here to one big PR exercise for their benefit - instead of it being an open and free exercise in information gathering through talks with both government officials - Red-Shirt leaders - human rights organisations based here (of little use when it comes to all matters pertaining to the recent massacre of Red-Shirts by the army) and interested media.

Nick Nostitz - New Mandela CANNOT be trusted. I think he lie.

[Insight]

Actually - I saw with my own eyes and listened to these peoples' pleads for this news to get out. Remember this was before the events of this year - when in April 2009 the general populace though it inconceivable that their own military could open fire on its own people. But it did. The two deaths reported weren't related to this Din Daeng event but were possibly the actions of a pro-government vigilante group elsewhere a few days later.

You saw people speaking? True story? Did you actually see anybody get shot as you claim?

While the Pratunam temple crisis was going on this year I remember the reporter in the temple saying that the red shirts were pleading with him to ask the UN to help them from the nasty Thai army. Meanwhile other reporters outside the temple were reporting that the army was trying to negotiate a ceasefire with the people doing the shooting so they could get the people out the temple.

Given the reputation of the leaders for twisting the truth (proven time and time again), I know what side I believe.

[SergeiY]

Nick Nostitz - New Mandela CANNOT be trusted. I think he lie.

Of course he lies. Look at the website. This is run by some academics. Arai wah. They don't know nothing about provincial village machos, because they don't talk politics after some beers with the expert tourists.

[SergeiY]

Actually - I saw with my own eyes and listened to these peoples' pleads for this news to get out. Remember this was before the events of this year - when in April 2009 the general populace though it inconceivable that their own military could open fire on its own people. But it did. The two deaths reported weren't related to this Din Daeng event but were possibly the actions of a pro-government vigilante group elsewhere a few days later.

You saw people speaking? True story? Did you actually see anybody get shot as you claim?

While the Pratunam temple crisis was going on this year I remember the reporter in the temple saying that the red shirts were pleading with him to ask the UN to help them from the nasty Thai army. Meanwhile other reporters outside the temple were reporting that the army was trying to negotiate a ceasefire with the people doing the shooting so they could get the people out the temple.

Given the reputation of the leaders for twisting the truth (proven time and time again), I know what side I believe.

2009 they also found some dead bodies in the river, declared them to unrelated death to keep the statistic clean.

This government isn't transparent nor open nor free of corruption nor is the freedom of the media and the right of information respected.

So what do you expect. ... dirty things they hide!

[webfact]

One flame deleted. If that doesn't stop I will hand out a suspension

[LikeHeat]

I wonder if Mr. Moon will pick up on the generals comments and the context

A general telling the public not to demonstrate....hmm surely it's the governments job to do that, as the army (in any democratic country, or a country that aspires to be democratic) is subserviant to the civillian adminstration and as such should keep its snout out of civillian matters, which is what a public demonstration is.

As far as i'm aware (and i may be wrong) in european or N. american countries the army would never dream of telling people if and when it can demostrate.

The words of the general show just how democratic Thailand is and it is something that both red and yellow should be deeply worried about. And I hope the generals comments are something Mr. Moon questions the PM on

Imagine for a minute you have been instructed to ensure the safety of the head of the UN, which is what I think the General has to do for his job, and you have enough mental capacity to remember the ASEAN Summit in Pattaya last year, would you sit back and let people make whatever plans they wanted? Or would you be proactive and let them know in advance what will be acceptable and what will be dealt with harshly?

I think the guy is just trying to do his job and keep everybody safe.

[jdinasia]

No, I don't - but I can see how they became more radicalised and militant. The shooting dead of protesters by the army - at least eight - last April 2009 at Din Daeng didn't help matters much either.

At least 8? Please document this from ANY credible source. I understand you to mean Songkran 2009 when they rioted, threatened to blow up a housing block, destroyed busses etc .... but somehow I don't remember 8 dead. I know that Thaksin and the reds claimed 100's but that was clearly rebuffed. When did the number become 8?

The reds were radicalized in 2008 with Seh Daeng's "grenade throwing dance".

[bulmercke]

Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha's announcement is like a red rag to a bull. The Red-Shirts might as well go the full hog (no pun intended) and throw caution to the wind. If you're going to protest - there's no point in protesting unless you're going to make your presence felt.

Thousands of Reds - motorcycles - pick-ups - private cars - charging around Bangkok for the entire duration of Mr. Ban's stay might just do the job.

I beg to differ. Mr. Baan has will learn nothing by there silly antics. He is no fool. He already knows they are nothing but a bunch of fools for hire working for a man who wants to commit more rape on Thailand.

RECENT QUOTE(Nick Nostitz - New Mandela):"In a few days there will be a press briefing by the Prime Minister and Ban Ki-moon. Quite disturbing for me, and rather unusual practice – journalists invited to the briefing will have to submit their questions in advance."

In short - the government will reduce his visit here to one big PR exercise for their benefit - instead of it being an open and free exercise in information gathering through talks with both government officials - Red-Shirt leaders - human rights organisations based here (of little use when it comes to all matters pertaining to the recent massacre of Red-Shirts by the army) and interested media.

Nick Nostitz - New Mandela CANNOT be trusted. I think he lie.

He's a freelance photographer/reporter. His very graphic images and commentary about what really happened earlier this year certainly speak for themselves.

[cdnvic]

Some nonsense deleted. If you are writing about someone, spell their names properly or your posts will just be deleted.

[bulmercke]

No, I don't - but I can see how they became more radicalised and militant. The shooting dead of protesters by the army - at least eight - last April 2009 at Din Daeng didn't help matters much either.

At least 8? Please document this from ANY credible source. I understand you to mean Songkran 2009 when they rioted, threatened to blow up a housing block, destroyed busses etc .... but somehow I don't remember 8 dead. I know that Thaksin and the reds claimed 100's but that was clearly rebuffed. When did the number become 8?

The reds were radicalized in 2008 with Seh Daeng's "grenade throwing dance".

Why are you so untrusting about this matter? Well - I know why. I mentioned earlier in this thread my reasons for believing this figure to be correct if you care to take the time to verify.

[jdinasia]

No, I don't - but I can see how they became more radicalised and militant. The shooting dead of protesters by the army - at least eight - last April 2009 at Din Daeng didn't help matters much either.

At least 8? Please document this from ANY credible source. I understand you to mean Songkran 2009 when they rioted, threatened to blow up a housing block, destroyed busses etc .... but somehow I don't remember 8 dead. I know that Thaksin and the reds claimed 100's but that was clearly rebuffed. When did the number become 8?

The reds were radicalized in 2008 with Seh Daeng's "grenade throwing dance".

Why are you so untrusting about this matter? Well - I know why. I mentioned earlier in this thread my reasons for believing this figure to be correct if you care to take the time to verify.

Which is why I asked for ANY credible source. Your individual claim isn't credible. It doesn't match what ANY report that I saw in the English language or Thai press said. Not even Voice of Taksin (not credible) or DTV made this claim.

[Insight]

He's a freelance photographer/reporter. His very graphic images and commentary about what really happened earlier this year certainly speak for themselves.

He also described the end of the get-Thaksin-off-the-hook campaign were they gave those thousands (or millions or billions or whatever) signed letters in boxes covered in red cloth as "a historic day". How!?!

[bulmercke]

Actually - I saw with my own eyes and listened to these peoples' pleads for this news to get out. Remember this was before the events of this year - when in April 2009 the general populace though it inconceivable that their own military could open fire on its own people. But it did. The two deaths reported weren't related to this Din Daeng event but were possibly the actions of a pro-government vigilante group elsewhere a few days later.

You saw people speaking? True story? Did you actually see anybody get shot as you claim?

While the Pratunam temple crisis was going on this year I remember the reporter in the temple saying that the red shirts were pleading with him to ask the UN to help them from the nasty Thai army. Meanwhile other reporters outside the temple were reporting that the army was trying to negotiate a ceasefire with the people doing the shooting so they could get the people out the temple.

Given the reputation of the leaders for twisting the truth (proven time and time again), I know what side I believe.

I'm not qualified to talk about this year's Pratunam temple crisis as I was not there and I have to rely on second-hand accounts from both sides to try to get some idea of what really happened. But as I mentioned earlier in the thread I have seen the TNN footage and I got first-hand testimony from Red-Shirts who had been at Din Daeng just a few hours earlier. I talked about this on another thread about a year ago here on TV which I'm sure is quite searchable if you take the time.